pan6467

Ok, so I don't know if many of you know but I was hospitalized for 5 days being told I had cancer (not much was done and I didn't really need to be there) and then I had a medialoscopy for the biopsy and I have Sarcoidosis.
I missed roughly 3 weeks worth of work.

That's the background.

So when I was in the hospital they told me I might be eligible for numerous programs because I have no insurance and work part time while I go to school.

Well, the Medicaid/Medicare people called (and I believe they just signed into law that P/T uninsured workers were eligible). They asked if I had any dependant children, I said "NO". They asked if I was disabled before or now because of this illness, again "NO". They did not ask me how much I made or what I did, they said I was ineligible because I was not disabled.

Then I looked at the Hospital information that they had provided for me to recieve financial help. I have to have made less than $9,300. I've made barely 11 for the year and I barely can live on that especially when the majority was made in Mar-Jul because I didn't have school and there were a bunch of F/T on vacation and leaving that I filled in for. My normal schedule is basically 16-24 hours a week (2-3 days).

Point is, I now have over $20,000 in medical bills and no way to pay them. I will watch my credit that I have rebuilt for the past 6 years be destroyed.

What's the purpose of having worked my ass off, going to school to better my life and yet being told what little I make is too much to recieve any benefits.

I could be like many drug addicts and alcoholics I work with and find the right doctor and get put on disability for my disease or a mental disorder I research and convince everyone I have. But instead I choose to better my life and the second I get sick everything I have built for 6 years is gone.

This is fucking bullshit.

If I had nothing, I would get it all free. If I didn't work and claimed disability I would get it all free. Instead I am bettering my life and facing horrid credit because I won't be able to pay.

Makes no sense the so called greatest country ever on the face of the Earth would rather watch somone bettering themselves and trying financially destroyed, than to work with them.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

Marvelous Marv

I'll try to word this in a way that doesn't kick you when you're down.

First of all, I admire that you've tried to do the right thing for six years. That's the American way.

The illegal alien way would have been to move to California and turn up at the emergency room speaking Spanish. Then everything would have been free. (Just another aspect of what you've already said.)

Hell, I don't have a clue as far as any decent advice goes. Maybe appeal your case like hell. Sometimes that works.

Good luck.

__________________
"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money."
Margaret Thatcher

Mojo_PeiPei

I got a personal question for you pan, why don't you have insurance through your school? Or is it not an option? At any rate I don't even know if school insurance would cover something that sounds hardcore like what you had. Sorry man, and I agree that the current system is pretty whacked out, you being one of the 40 million people that don't have insurance.

__________________
To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition.

Cynthetiq

many people are just one or two paychecks away from bankruptcy here in the US just because of they way people live their lifestyles. On top of that ANY kind of medical emergency really sinks most people's boats even those that live modest lifestyles against their incomes.

Having watched the medical industry slowly circle the drain for the past 20 years as with insider eyes and information, it's a crying shame, but I will not accept socialized medicine as I don't care for it when I was in the UK just visiting and watching my mother in law be berated while she legally entitled to services she's seens similar to the illegal aliens here.

since I've found that I'm highly asthmatic choices for jobs are limited to those that will provide medical benefits, no if ands or buts about it. Does it suck sometimes, sure, but life isn't a movie with a happy ending all the time.

good luck and I hope you have a speedy recovery both physically and financially.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

pan6467

First, Thanks to all who posted the well wishes and for those who will. It is deeply appreciated.

The school doesn't offer it, certain companies have fliers out there but the cost is very high, esp for a single male smoker aged 38.

As for Socialized medicine..... I don't know if I would favor that, but I am a firm believer that we need medical on a sliding scale.

Trust me, as the bills have come in (and I realize I can't afford to even try to make a payment plan because I truly live barely within my means as it is), I have truly given thought to saying fuck it, dropping out of school, giving everything to my mother and claiming homelessness. That's not a solution, but watching the credit I rebuilt from garbage and worked my ass of to fix be destroyed because I fell ill seems like a punishment by society and the greed of those running the Health industry.

I mean if a society bankrupts hard working people because they fall ill, what kind of society is that? To me it is "3rd world" and I am not sure I want to belong to a society that does this.I find it against everything I ever believed America to stand for.

The doctors were cool in that the after surgery office visits they put me down as a house case and non-billable. I must say the people I have worked with have been cool but they have their regs and rules and I unfortunately am not able to get around them.

Now I see why people sue for medical malpractice over the slightest thing, you start getting these bills you have no chance in Hell of paying so look for a reason to blame the doctor and sue your way out of the bills.

I find it extremely pathetic the President can keep cutting taxes for the rich and cuts social programs where someone working, going to school falls prey to illness and is wiped out.

Fucking pathetic excuse, the system HAS TO CHANGE.

//end rant sorry, but I am extremely disillusioned right now, as I am a taxpaying citizen and I need some of my tax money that pays for these programs that are supposed to help me to help me. It's not the taxes I mind paying, I believe it is my share and responsiblity to help....... but when I need those services that I am paying into with my taxes then I should have a right to them.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

jorgelito

Pan,

I am speechless - I really don't know what to say. I am sorry this happened to you and the scary thing is, you're not the only one.

I definitley agree we need to "fix the system" while simultaneously skeptical about socialized medicine. I have school insurance but I still don't feel secure. I have worked real hard, saved, sacrificed and delayed gratification because I am responisible. It really bothers me that this type of system "punishes" those who do the right thing and "rewards" those who don't.

Damn Pan, sorry this happened to you. I definitley feel your pain and understand what you're going through.

Good luck and take care.

Paq

pan, so sorry to hear of your troubles, i wish you a speedy recovery.

with that said, i wholeheartedly agree that there needs to be a fundamental change in our medical system. A while back, i had 2 hairline cracks in a bone in my hand and even WITH insurance, i still had to pay roughly $800 out of pocket over the course of 1 month, and considering what i do/make, well, that's a considerable chunk for me. sadly enough, what i paid for was basically what i was doing before i went to the doctor..basic brace/cast and no use until it felt better. I basically paid for peace of mind that nothing else was severely hurt.

with that said, i don't know what i would have done if i had to shell out $20K. i don't know what i would have done. I am like you, i work hard, i paid for school, i am not in debt at all, i live within my means, nothing ever goes on credit, i have a credit score in the top range, and to think that all of that could become shit if I simply had appendicitis...that, to me, is mind boggling.

I don't think socialized health care is the answer, but on the other hand, i know the system we have right now will collapse very soon. it is simply something that is too complicated to be glossed over with any meaning.

Also, i seriously think there will be a bigger change in the health insurance system. Rates have almost doubled within 3 yrs for me, a single, nonsmoking, no medical problems white male..and i went to a higher deductible, higher copay adn 70/30 instead of 80/20 plan...just to get a rate that is only double what it was before.. the only thing i can think of that has had a similar increase in such a short time is...well, gasoline.

so yeah, i'm seriously waiting for a fundamental change..the system just cannot stand anymore.

__________________
Live.

Chris

tecoyah

Pan....My father in law also has Sarcoid....and hes doing well...just to add a bright spot.

The medical industry in this country is totally screwed up, and will self destruct in the next ten years...in my opinion. I dont know the answer to fixing it....but then, I was not elected to do so.

Makes you think about the reasoning behind attempting to tackle Social Security.

__________________
Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

highthief

Move to Canada. Or the UK. Or any other western nation in the world - I believe they all have some form of socialized medicine. I'm always amazed at how different the US is in this regard with the rest of civilization.

__________________
Si vis pacem parabellum.

pan6467

I must not be in need enough...... and Fuck it I'm not an immigrant.... so I'm fucked.

I guess the GOP figures if you make $12,000 a year that you should be able to afford $20,000 hospital bills, going to school and working a job......

(BTW I don't work full time because if I did my income would be too high to get ANY financial aid for school.... thereby cutting my own throat in trying to get ahead..... Just wanted to add that because I am sure someone will tell me to work 2 jobs or cut what luxuries I may have.....)

At least some GOP are starting to realize the social cuts are getting to extreme.

I know let's fucking cut the rich's taxes, start a fucking war we will throw billions upon billions upon billions into, then cut education, healthcare and social programs for those trying to get ahead and work their asses off just to make it.

FUCK the people trying to make it Goddamned I'm George W. Bush and I'll give the top 1% tax cuts and have the rest of you all pay........

Highlights added by me.

LINK: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051110/...E0BHNlYwN0bWE-

And again I appologize for my attitude and swearing but this is fucking unbelievable. I guess what I pay in taxes and the fact I am working to better my life isn't good enough.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

BigBen

When Americans scream bloody murder about Canadian Healthcare, they talk about waiting lists.

Pan, how long did it take for you to get into surgery after the initial cancer diagnosis?


You would not have to have paid anything if you and I were neighbors. You just would have had to wait a little longer, I imagine.

__________________
3.141592654
Hey, if you are impressed with my memorizing pi to 10 digits, you should see the size of my penis.

powerclown

I agree that it could be better.
Independent health insurance is available in the US for $150-$250/month.
Have you looked into payment plans for your bill? Good Luck.

Ace_O_Spades

I recently had an experience dealing with surgery with respect to canadian health care.

On a thursday I went to the Doctor's office, he said I needed surgery on my hand to realign the bone and plate it into place. On the friday I went under and had the surgery. The only way it could have possibly been faster was if I went in the same day... a little unrealistic for something not so serious.

Canada's health care system gets a bad rep, unnecessarily. I agree with bigben: if you were my neighbour, you'd be paying less for your education, getting more in student financial aid, and gotten your health problem cared for without charge.

__________________
Feh.

host

pan, I am sorry for you, and at the same time, relieved that you are not facing any imminently life threatening illness, such as cancer of the lung or other cancer.

What I know of you is only what you have volunteered in your posts on this forum. I am motivated by recent personal experience and by what I know of you here, and by my usual "frankness", to lay the following out to you. Please do not take it personally. I admire you for what you are doing with your life, and I take the same side here on almost all of the issues that we discuss.

My wife, at about your age, before we were married, was a single mom after divorcing, with two pre-teen sons and no strong skill set. With some financial support from retired, upper middle class parents, and her own part time retail job, she successfully completed nursing school and achieved an R.N. level.
About a day after graduating, she was diagnosed with breast cancer and underwent an almost immediate mastectomy and forced her rapid recovery and entered her new profession, saddled with a heavy medical debt because she lacked health insurance coverage. Her circumstances delayed breast reconstructive surgery for at least a year later than it should have begun.

My wife seems at least as proud and independent and hard working as you seem commited to being. We knew each other much earlier in our lives, reunited (via classmates . com) after being out of contact for 27 years, and we married a few years ago. Four months later....my wife suffered a sudden and massive stroke that left her unable to speak and paralyzed on the right side. Thankfully, she enjoyed total medical insurance coverage, but she lost her $50k annual income and was reduced to receiving 30 percent of what she formally earned, and is now on SSI disability, which pays less than 25% of her former earnings. Some incidental medical bills have gone unpaid, and I do not fret about her credit status....we had not merged our credit histories when she was stricken, and she will not qualify for credit now, with her low income.

As proud as my wife is, Pan....she has found herself in circumstances where she has had to seek help from her parents. Life deals many of us some shitty cards, and.....these posts prompt me to advise you to lean on your family in your time of need:
http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showpos...6&postcount=37

http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showpos...9&postcount=28
and...to quit smoking.

There does need to be reform in the health insurance coverage and in medical provision payment schemes, but, until there is, we must rely on the comfort and support of our families, if we are fortunate enough to have that option.
We grow up, we try to be independent, but in the end, almost all of us will find ourselves, if we live long enough, under the financial or emotional care of our children, who will, as we decline, even make key decisions for us. We are always our parents children and they are always our parents.

Should we all not have to turn inward for help from our families, if they possess the resources to help, before we turn to the government or to charitable alternatives, first, especially if we are motivated primarily by pride?
(This is a general question, Pan, I do not pretend to know your circumstances well enought to direct the question to you.....)

Don't we owe, a "family first" approach, to all of those in similar circumstances who have no family, or family with the means to potentially help? Should our bankrupt government or inadequate funds for indigent patients, or a system that pays the medical bills of the uninsured, but puts further upward pressure on the costs of those who are lucky enough to have
health insurance, be asked, or worse....compelled to pay the medical bills of those who don't exhaust the option of seeking help from family first?

Isn't part of the problem of the cost to society of caring for the elderly, the fact that, unlike in past generations, family balks at it's former, universally accepted obligation to provide such care?

This may not be the best time to discuss this with you, Pan....but....you brought it up....I have no hostile or even opposing history with your POV on other issues, I am as liberal/left tilting on societal issues as anyone has been here, and I've seen sudden medical crisis up close, so I can empathize. You have just had a tough break, you don't deserve it, but you are in better circumstance, from what you've previously posted, than the majority of folks in your shoes.

host

Peform a public service, here pc....direct us to one or more of the plans that you mentioned.....with deductibles that are in line with a $12k annual income, and with minimal restrictions on qualification for coverage, i.e. restrictions as to waiting periods with/without pre-existing conditions, prescription riders and dedcutibles, geographic or age related restrictions....etc.

Is it really "sound" advice to refer someone with $12k annual income to a $2400 annual medical insurance payment that would predictably inculde unaffordable decutibles and prescription costs. What, in your POV, would Pan be insuring himself <b>against</b> by paying 20 percent of his income for this "coverage"? Would he receive adequate medical attention without this coverage? <b>Yes.</b>. Would deductibles and prescription costs and loss of wages during a serious illness, most likely put him in the exact same financial circumstances as if he had no insurance? <b>No. He would most likely find himself in worse circumstances, because he sacrificed so much to pay $200 monthly, for insurance that ultimately made no difference in his post medical treatment life, anyway</b>.

Everyone who demands it, receives medical attention, and deductibles exist to discourage the poor from seeking care, if they are foolish enough to be paying for coverage, out of pocket. That is the dirty lil secret that advocates of the status quo, do not want folks who are duped into paying for ultimately unaffordable coverage. Maybe it is a hidden blessing that the majority of Wal-Mart employees make too little to even consider paying for their company's inadequate offering. If you have no assets, you don't need to pay for insurance that only partially protects you against loss of....<b>assets</b>.

I think that you'll find that these plans waste the money of those who are restricted to life on Wal-Mart wages, as that company's own plan offerings are to it's own workers. Your advice, in my experience, is uninformed, BS. Insurance coverage is priced for people who can execute a cost/benefit analysis of what they are protecting (of their own assets and credit status) vs. what they risk losing if they are unisured. Pan will receive no benefit in doing other than ignoring the bill collectors if he ends up left to his own current ability to pay. His credit status will be wrecked, even with a "payment plan", he will not be sued because he will not be viewed as worth the litigation and collection costs, and, after seven years, unfavorable info related to this debt will disappear from his credit report, vs. ten or more years if he foolishly opts for unnecessary bankruptcy "protection".

Our current system will provide care for Pan, with or without him paying $200+ per month, as you suggest. Ironically, he will have no expense and at least equal care if he is uninsured. The issues here are "peace of mind" issues, and....compared to life or death medical crisis, they are a superficial, BS distraction. The "hit" to his credit status is already a given, and a "payment plan" or bankruptcy filing, or the hardhsip of paying for insurance that he can't afford, with deductibles and other limits, and prescription costs that he cannot afford, are all window dressing that seem adequate viewed from your window, powerclown, or from the Bentonville, AK executive office window of a Wal-Mart officer, but they are impractical, BS concepts that are symptoms of being too insulated and out of touch with real, low income, life.

My wife and I are fully insured, and a sudden medical crisis still sucks a bunch. There is no incentive for anyone without major home equity ($50k or more) or other major assets to protect, to pay appreciable costs for out of pocket health insurance coverage, today. We are all one illness away from financila devastation. The "payment plan" or other effort to instill a sense of repayment obligation in the psyche of the low asset citizen is propaganda, intended to help the well to do avoid a "back door" tax. The system is broken, and it will get worse until diplomacy and domestic priorities overcome corporatism draped with the flag of militarism, and the 32,000 lobbyists on "K" Street.

Cynthetiq

Host, something we finally agree upon.

Dems tout "It takes a Village", Repubs tout "Family Values" yet both require exactly what you are stating of "Family First," and no one is willing to truly do so.

Most Americans including myself will try hard to not go to parents in time of need. Again, exactly as you state as a matter of pride.

In my travels around the world I see more and more that the family both immediate and external are crucial to the survival of most individuals from cradle to grave. Examples I have seen in Icelandic, Spanish, Filipino, Indian, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, cultures (i'm sure there are more.)

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

powerclown

For the briefest of starts, one might google 'independent health insurance'.

Cynthetiq

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

powerclown

.............
Aetna
Humana
Celtic
eHealthInsurance
Anthem
Ohio Dept. of Insurance (w/Links)
Golden Rule Health Insurance

It took me less than 5 minutes to find this information.
I would imagine one is bound to find even more helpful information if one so chooses.

kutulu

pan:

one thing you also didn't see is the fact that your bill is twice as high as it would be or an insured person. ins companies will only pay a set rate for serivices. They make up for this by charging the uninsured twice as much for hte same service. So really you got screwed twice.

Cynthetiq

and just so we can see which of us is being the former of my sig, now where is this so called cheap insurance???


I clicked on EACH link you provided and sorry I don't see ANYTHING that resembles the request that host or myself made to you. It just leads to forms that I need to fill out, and if and when I fill them out, they do not give me any amount that seems livable on $12,000/year

I picked Aetna and populated it with information as an idividual M/36 in California (they didn't have NY but here they are $48.44 for our company employees)

I'm actually in the process of open enrollment for insurance right now at my company and it's $39.00 each pay period (biweekly) costing me about $975 for just myself, since my wife is included it's double that. Our cheapest si $15.95 biweekly and it doesn't cover much but hospital stays and a handful of doctor visits. $975 from a FORTUNE 500 company with over 5,000 employees, even at that rate someone making $12,000 (hopefully that's takehome) it's a large amount.


From what I can see from the Aetna quotes, while I can pick lower coverage, I'd probably end up putting more out of pocket somewhere. My thought it that the plans offered are very confusing and not simple in anyway shape or form. At the maximum $250/month is HUGE for someone only making $12,000/year basically making them choose between eating and healthcare coverage, and that doesn't include prescriptions, doctor copays, and transportation to doctors, missed work, etc.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

kutulu

well we all know that health care is a priviledge and that all poor people could be rich if they just got off their asses once in a while

/sarcasm

powerclown

So what's your point, Cynthetiq?

If you think I'm an asshole because I dare to offer solutions then more power to you. I've been called worse. Never once did I say that health care is affordable on $12k/yr. What the hell would be? I feel for the guy. I would imagine it is a fucking hellish situation to be in.

Let me relate a story quickly: my brother has over $50k in school debts, and he has found, after doing more than googling on the internet, a payment plan that is workable for him. He makes $27k/yr. So forgive me if I'm not the resident TFP professional insurance salesman with all the answers.

All I am suggesting is that Pan do a little research. Get out the phonebook and call around. Use the internet if you want. Get in touch with an insurance person. Ask school, family, colleagues etc etc.
There are resources.

raveneye

Pan, my first thought is to give the dean of students a call and explain the situation. These guys have a lot of resources at their disposal, he might be able to pull a few strings to help get you a payment plan that will make everyone happy and not affect your credit rating.

Cynthetiq

my point was that you claim something and then don't bother to post something to back it up especially after you've been asked to. It didn't take me all of 5 minutes to get the Aetna quotes to at least come to the point where you stated of $250/month and then I found below that as well.

one of the main issues here in the politics forum is the hit and run quips and then the converse of the deluge of links and quotes.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Marvelous Marv

Something tells me Canada and the UK aren't going to be anxious to pick up the slack.

If they ARE, I have a few million illegal aliens I can send them.

__________________
"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money."
Margaret Thatcher

Marvelous Marv

While I am in the quite unusual position of agreeing with you on almost everything in your post, I would like to point out that a person should buy medical insurance if they ever WANT to own a home sometime down the road.

You sure won't buy your first home with a lousy credit score, or if you do, you'll have a very unattractive interest rate.

__________________
"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money."
Margaret Thatcher

Marvelous Marv

You're speaking the truth. I provide a service that some people find it hard to do without. I have lost count of the times I've been asked to extend credit, or provide the service for free.

These people have no problem asking me, a total stranger, for such favors, but "Oh no... I can't ask my mother for money."

I also don't consider a person a good risk for credit if they can't put anything on a credit card because they're all maxed.

Sorry for the threadjack.

__________________
"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money."
Margaret Thatcher

scout

While I'm somewhat sympathic, you are able to work. Have you ever thought about cutting back school to part time for a bit and get a full time job to better support yourself while you pay off these medical expenses? You are not the only one to have to work your ass off to pay bills and get a good education. I realize at this moment you feel you are the only one to ever have such a tough time but I'm confident you can and will do whatever needs to be done to overcome. Bitch a little then get the job done, that's the American way. It's merely a setback, it's not the end of the world. I wish you the best!

pan6467

As for family, my mother, while having money does help all she can. She is very proud of how I have taken back control of my life, but she has her own life and problems.

As for my father, while we love each other, we have let each other down in many ways. He once told me that he would help if I ever went back to college and proved to him I could do it. Well a 3.5 GPA and Dean's list every time must not have proved anything. I did go to him for help with college so that I wouldn't be so loaded with loans. He and my stepmother turned me down. She runs my father (as my mother did) and she has issues with my sister and I.

Kind of funny how she can drive a new Mercedes every year but when it comes to allowing dad to see his kids, that's another story. She is the type when she finds out my sister is coming in from Prescott, she'll make sure her and dad are on vacation.

My father is a very great self made man, but when it comes to family he isn't exactly the closest person (he is the perfect case study of a workaholic) and when it comes to his wife (as with my mother so....) he lets them call the shots and just does what the wife tells him. Sad how someone can be so great in business but such a puppet at home.

So .... the family won't be of much help.

As for asking for a payment plan that is an option, I have thought about and am looking into one of those credit managers that supposedly are non profit and don't charge. However, I am skeptical, in that what I say I will be able to pay and what in reality I will be able to pay are 2 different issues (as like I said before my schedule depends on how many f/t call off, vacation and so on and how often I can fill in.

Right now, I'm 3 weeks behind in school and so I have to catch up while staying with the class at the same time. Plus, one of the problems I have with the sarcoid is fatigue and extreme chest pains (it is a known cause for chronic fatigue syndrome because the body is working harder).

I do like the idea of going to the Dean of Students and pleading my case, Thank you for the suggestion Raveneye.

I don't know what the true options are, if I work more, I get less financial aid for college and what I get now barely pays (as it is all in loans)..... I am not eligible for any scholarships as I have talked to the school about them (being that I have a great GPA) and was laughed out the door basically being told I am a white, single with no dependants, non athletic, male and there are no such things no matter what my GPA is.

As for insurance, I had looked into it, but I could not find any affordable insurance. The best I had found was a very basic plan that would offer a 70/30 and had a high deductible (I think $2500), the cost of which was just not affordable to me.

This country and the attitudes of the Right are just not what I believe in anymore. I find it pathetic we are cutting social programs so deep that we are basically destroying people. All in the name of greed, the poor don't deserve anything, you're poor because you're a lazy asshole, blah blah blah.

I do have a question for the Right who believe that this situation is more my fault and I should find the money by cutting any "Luxury" I may have.

If I don't pay my bill, sure my credit is fucked, but in the long run who do you truly believe pays the bill of the poor who can't??????????

Is it not better to have the security netting and make sure these people get the help and not worry about the money, or shall we continue to put the burden on the rich????

Because in the end when people like myself cannot pay, the burden goes to those with insurance in higher premiums, goes to the taxpayers who have to pay more (well, you have Bush so.... ok the country's deficit skyrockets more), because these doctors and hospitals are going to get their money somehow........ if not by me or the poor who make too much to get help, but make too little to pay, then by the people who do pay, the government and by eventually cutting services to people in this situation......

And is that what mankind and living is about, to deny people healthcare and peace of mind for profit???????

God I hope not, because if it is then there truly is no hope for any of us.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

pan6467

So then I have student loans to pay, a job if I am lucky pays $7 an hour and have no desire to do and I still won't be able to pay off either then.

By going to school, I have been given the drive to better my life because I will be doing something I believe in and truly want to do. I have self respect, the respect of my coworkers and family and the respect of other addicts I work with. That means more to me than any amount of fucking money.... I know for some on this board they can't grasp how, nor can they lower those self righteous, know it all, egotistical beliefs they have, that they just know they would never be in my position and if they were they would handle it soooooo fucking much better.

If I do as you say, and you'll see it as a character flaw but fuck that self righteous attitude...... then I'll be miserable and will have truly given up, because the drive will have been sucked right out of me.

If I work more, I get less in financial aid and then I can't afford school so I'm in the same boat.

And no I am not the only person who is in this boat, and many who are give up. I refuse to give up and will pay off $5 a month if that is all I can, but I refuse to have people tell me "I need to work harder" or "I derserve this" or "fuck what you want to do, do what you have to do".

I am doing what I want to do because when I get through with school I'll be in a far better position. And because unlike the self righteous who spew the "not government or my problem" bullshit (sorry we are on this Earth together, we have an inherent and God driven duty to help each other IMHO), I believe by bettering myself and being in a job I love, I can help others better and be a more positive example for other who are trying to rebuild their lives.

If I do what you tell me or suggest that "I need to do", then I'm going to be miserable and not give a fuck and to be honest, I'll just find a doctor who will put me on SSI and I'll have you pay for it all anyway. Because that attitude is not conducive to those who are trying to better themselves and show society that they are viable and that they feel and want does matter and is equal to the feelings and wants of the Bill Gates' and Warren Buffetts' (both of whom have come forward for medical refom).

You give people no hope, you kill their spirit and destroy them...... and is that what we as a society truly want? Is fucking money more important than people's well being and happiness????? God forgive those who believe it is.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

pan6467

As my favorite songwriter, RAYMOND DOUGLASS DAVIES of the KINKS wrote:

Shouldn't we view each other as equals and God's children and get over the fucking greed?

Shouldn't we allow those who, like I, want to move forward in society the chance to do so, without giving them guilt trips to work harder, STF up and do what you have to do even if it destroys everything you believe or dream.... because that rich guy over there, his dreams and the greed he blieves in mean more because he has more?

Why turn us into machines that have no dreams and hopes and desires in the name of fucking money? Is money your God?????? Is money going to save you from a severe natural disaster or when you need your fellow man's help and they turn their back on you because you don't have enough money or because you treated them like shit because they didn't have as much as you??????

It just boggles my mind people put money over everything........ so fucking sad, to me that's a worse life than anything I will ever live.

Of course, money is just like any other drug addiction....... and some people realize it and change and find true love, hope, wisdom and courage and some die greedy with greedy fucking heirs, who never gave a fuck about them, just the money because that is what heirs were taught to care about.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

Lebell

Pan,

I was very sorry to read this news.

Hang in there.

-lebell

__________________
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis

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Elphaba

Pan, I've held back because I simply do not know what to say and I suspect I will be in your shoes soon. It is long overdue that we join the other Western nations in a national health plan. Some still believe that the US has the best health care in the world, but a recent study demonstrates that we don't even make the top five.

I promised you I had your back, but I have little substance to match my words. All I can promise you now is that I will do my best to support you as a friend, and beat the drum for national health care for as long as it takes.

Damn little help that is to you right now.


"Drowning in a River of Tears" - Eric Clapton

scout

I wasn't trying to be rude, just perhaps giving you another way to look at it. I am truly sorry you took it the way you did. I guess I find it hard to grasp the attitude of "everyone owes me free health care just because I go to school". I'm really not trying to be snobbish or have a bad attitude. I'm only 4 years older than you. I remember when I went to school I worked two jobs and raised a family, all without any public assistance other than Pell grants and they wasn't much. It wasn't that I didn't qualify for assistance, but I knew if my parents found out I or my family was receiving public assistance all hell would break loose as this would be a major embarrassment to them and to the extended family. And they wasn't going to help me unless the world was about to end lol. To be honest I'm still paying about $4500 in student loans but I've about got it licked! Yea sometimes I thought it was impossible and I would never get out of school. Some years I only went part time, other years I was able to pick up a few "extra" credits, but it all worked out in the end. At the time it was rough, but I made it. I appreciate more now what my parents taught me then about self sufficiency. I've said all that to say this I guess .... I hope you the best and I truly hope it all works out for you. As you stated, if you have to send them $5 a month to get through it then that's what you have to do. Hang in there, it's gonna get better! Good luck!

pan6467

It's cool Scout, and no I am not sayinbg that the world owes me anything but the allowance to follow my dreams to better society the best way I feel I can.

I am very set on a sliding scale medical pay. I don't believe that anything should be "free", everyone has a right to make money and to live as best they can.

Trust me I have no hate for money, I have a hate for putting GREED over people, and that is what the healthcare profession is doing, and our government is allowing them to do.

Right now we are just fucking numbers and statistics to these companies that care only about the bottom line and how much profit they can make so that the CEO's and board members can live in the lap of luxury. Unfortunately, what they do not see (whether it is self blindness or they are just so greedy they do not care about the future) is that they themselves (or more likely their children and grandchildren) will become numbers also and that their lives will be seen as nothing but "how much profit can we make off you in your lifetime"? In other words, they are building a system where everyone is just profit to them and life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness will mean nothing because from the second you are born to the last breath you breathe the system will be sucking you for as much profit as possible.

I can't look at life that way. People have an inherent right to be happy and free, and above all else America was supposedly built on the basis that people had the freedom to pursue their individual happiness..... (It's even in the preamble of the US Constitution.)

I believe in self suffiency, and my life was being built upon it, however, how can I dream of self sufficiency when all I am seen as is someone who owes more than I will probably be able to pay off in many years. And with Sarcoidosis I can have very painful flareups and need more medical attention at any time for the rest of my life. So even with insurance the way prices are and the fact they keep exponentially going up because these companies have to make profit from the people and insurance companies that can PAY, I could feasibly max out my insurance before I die. Then what? I lose everything I have ever worked for because I have an illness that I did not cause?

Now being a smoker, if I had lung cancer (God forbid) then an argument can be made I did that to myself and therefore I should be held more accountable. But, Sarcoidosis is not a result of something I did to myself so to take profit from my illness and to hold me in debt and perhaps eventually take everything I will have ever worked for because I happen to have gotten it, then is that not just plain greed and saying "too bad so sad, you lost life's lottery...... fucking pay?" So you are punishing me, for something I cannot control..... Is that truly what we want to be in society?

I have psoriasis (another auto-immune disease), and I have refused to take medications that could clear it up because I feared the health effects...... watch the commercials for the one med they advertise heavily for..... "may cause fatal skin infections, may cause liver damage, may cause cancers, and this that and the other thing....". So these miracle drugs that the machine prescribes for people actually may cause more damage in the long run.

I have had Doctors tell me those incindences are very rare...... welll Goddamned.... only 20 - 50 out of every 100,000 people get Sarcoidosis and out of that only 3 white non Scandinavian males get it (plaus it is even rarer in the northern US, as it is more common in the Southern and South Eastern states)...... so gee willikers... I think I have already shown I am a rare case.

But these meds are also "new" and the true effects won't be seen for years after many people have taken them. Look at Celebrex or Vioxx......

But the way these companies see it is that these meds may help or cure one problem but they will probably cause more down the line so more profit will come from these people than maybe what was originally going to. (And if you think that is just a paranoid ramble wait 20 years and see...... I can almost guarantee the long term side effects of all these toenail fungal meds, and penile dysfunction meds, and psoriasis meds and bi-polar meds and whatever band aid med you maybe on.... will kick in and be worse than the original problem.)

Don't get me wrong there are many good meds out there also, that truly do help. We should never stop developing meds, but we should be careful so that the long term effects do not cause worse problems for the patient.... but then that would hurt long term profit.

So in the end what is the solution? I personally believe getting back to treating the individual as an individual and not as a profit margin or as a number and just prescribe whatever the med is at the time.

Our healthcare was the greatest because we had great doctors and a health profession that treated the individual not just the disease.

We cannot as a society grow and develop into anything better if we keep punishing people for falling ill and treating them as profit margins.

Like me, I work and will work in a form of the medical profession. But thankfully, I will be in one of the last fields to be able to treat the individual as an individual (although the vast majority of addictions counseling is moving towards corrections because there is no money in the true treatments of individuals. Why? Insurance won't pay (or in the very best of cases has very low maxes and high copays), plus most addicts have wasted whatever they had on the drugs and life before they realized they were at rock bottom, very few addicts will stop while they are still at the top. So there is truly no money in the business, unless again you go into corrections or treat the very rich (like the Hazeldons and Betty Ford Clinics in the world.)

So if profit is all you want and care about .... then this isn't the business. Because I can guarantee the recovery rates are extremely low.

Whereas, myself, my profit will come in knowing I have helped someone to better their life and be more productive in society and therefore moving the economy far more positively than they had before I helped them.

So if the healthcare profession truly was about helping people and not just their profit and future profit of just themselves, they would see by treating the individual and allowing them a better healthier life, the individual would be able to contribute better to society and thus society itself would be richer.

The industry has to change or we will all go bankrupt feeding the machine.

Anyway, I am rambling now so........

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

pan6467

To take the bitchiness off the thread for a post......... (sorry for caps but ....)

I WISH TO THANK EVERYONE WHO HAS POSTED THEIR GOOD WISHES EVEN IF WE DO NOT SEE EYE TO EYE.

EACH OF YOU HAVE SHOWN A TRUE STRANGER COMPASSION AND THAT MEANS A LOT TO ME, MORE THAN YOU MAY EVER KNOW.........

FROM THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART I TRULY THANK EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU, AND I HOPE SOMEDAY, IN SOME WAY I CAN HELP EACH OF YOU........


THANK YOU, THIS IS THE GREATEST PLACE ON THE NET BECAUSE OF PEOPLE LIKE YOU

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

AngelicVampire

So does no one really support a UK/Canadian style health care system where all non-trivial (breast enhancements etc for cosmetic reasons) are provided for on the state. Everyone pays taxes and can get a minimum level of care for any illness. If you want better/faster care you can go private however its an addition for people who want to do so rather than a necessity.

I really feel for you man, it's a shame and tragedy that one of the most advanced nations in the world cannot provide basic medical care to its citizens. Ok there are some things that I don't think should be free such as birth control (in non-necessary situations) and non-necessary surgeries (again like breast implants or pec implants in purely cosmetic situations). However for the most part isn't universal healthcare more of a benefit than a flaw?

flstf

Pan, I am sorry to hear of your medical bill nightmare. Something of course has to be done about the out of control healthcare costs in our country soon. I know it doesn't help you now but we will probably have nationalized healthcare in the not too distant future. My wife and I recently payed off our adult daughter's emergency room visit hospital bill. An hour or so with xrays gets up to a few thousand dollars very fast.

The least expensive plan my wife and I could find is over $300 per month for $10,000 deductible, meaning that anything over $10K a year, they will pay 80% of approved covered costs. We own our house outright and must protect ourselves from financial disaster.

Rekna

Pan, are you sure if you worked more hours you would loose your financial aid? I'm making roughly 25k a year and I still qualify for the max $8500 in student loans a year. Though i'm also a grad student so that might affect the financial need formula some.

One thing I would do is talk to the hospital imediatly. I know when I went to the dentist recently and had to get 3k in dental work done they gave me 15% off because i was paying out of pocket. They may be able to reduce the ammount you have to pay since you are uninsured and cannot afford it.