11-21-2005, 12:23 PM | #41 (permalink) |
Lennonite Priest
Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA
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THIS IS FUCKED UP!!!!!!!!!
I just got off the phone with "Quality Assurance Medical" or whatever (They are the ones that find grants and what not to help people pay)..... Anyway, they called me to see if I was still working and if I planned to continue working..... when I said yes, the lady told me, that if I decided not to work, she could find money for me to pay..... WTF IS THAT??????? I can't get any help if I work, yet if I don't work, and can't pay any other bills I can get help on my medical bills........ WOW..... WTF, so I'm fucked because I choose to better my life...... maybe when I see the doctor Wednesday I'll tell him how excrutiating the pain is at times (no lie there) or how I have insomnia and a stiff neck. Maybe I can get on disability, get everything fucking paid for, even school, open my halfway house/therapeutic community and place it under some type of partnership where I am just the manager/live in partner........ Yeah, I'll just abuse the system now..... fuck the people who would rather not have any type of universal healthcare, I'll just join the system and take everything I can.... Except for a few things, my pride, the fact I couldn't allow myself to do that, the fact I LOVE my job helping other addicts more than anything else I have ever done or how much money I have ever had and the fact that I'm bettering myself despite the people who would rather have systems like this than universal healthcare even if it were on a sliding scale basis. They need to face the facts, government is going to pay the bills one way or another for those who can't, and people in my position given the chance...... I have a feeling the majority would jump at it. Especially knowing school financial aid would be there also.
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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?" |
11-21-2005, 02:45 PM | #42 (permalink) |
Tilted Cat Head
Administrator
Location: Manhattan, NY
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It is.
But my personal take on it is when you can use the system that you've paid into for quite some time, use it. You paid for it fair and square, not much can be said for the generational welfare families.
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I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. |
11-21-2005, 03:24 PM | #43 (permalink) | |
Pissing in the cornflakes
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What school do you go to? Personally I think you have a bit of martyr syndrome going, you have outs but instead are taking the high road even if it leads you to the cross. Getting nailed to crosses, even figuratively, sucks, you have your outs, use them. Edit:As a side note, I've said on this board before, that the people who get screwed by health care are the working lower/lower middle classes. If I could change it, if they asked if you had a job and you said no, thats when they say they can't help you, not the other way around.
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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps. Last edited by Ustwo; 11-21-2005 at 07:39 PM.. |
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11-22-2005, 07:17 PM | #44 (permalink) | |
Lennonite Priest
Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA
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Quote:
I am not a martyr, I am trying to do what is right. So just leave me alone.
__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?" |
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11-22-2005, 09:27 PM | #45 (permalink) | ||
Pissing in the cornflakes
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__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps. |
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11-23-2005, 04:36 AM | #46 (permalink) |
Lennonite Priest
Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA
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You're just trying to pick a fight UsTwo and you know what, it's not working. You got the message from BerMuda same as I..... I think you first post was to antagonize and your second to further try to pick the fight..... I'll let a Mod decide.
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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?" |
11-23-2005, 05:47 AM | #47 (permalink) |
Tilted Cat Head
Administrator
Location: Manhattan, NY
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On it's face, Ustwo is right, the definition of a martyr is what fits.
as for you two picking a fight... pan please use the ignore feature of the board.
__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. |
11-23-2005, 06:38 AM | #48 (permalink) |
Lennonite Priest
Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA
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One posts bad policy and its effects on politics so that the people can see why policy needs changed.
That is my purpose a personal account to show why policy needs changed.
__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?" |
11-25-2005, 07:27 PM | #49 (permalink) | |
Deja Moo
Location: Olympic Peninsula, WA
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* You can only get medical help if you are NOT working. * You can't pay your rent, buy groceries, or pay any other expenses other than medical, if you are NOT working. "On it's face," your situation appears to be between a rock and a hard place, NOT martyrdom. |
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11-25-2005, 08:46 PM | #50 (permalink) |
Lennonite Priest
Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA
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Thank you Elph. and that is exactly where I am at. As I stated above policy needs changed and my speaking out may get someone else thinking and doing something to change policy also. I don't see how martyrdom is even close. my choice is I work and live or I don't work and starve but my medical bills are paid for. How that is being a martyr is beyond me.
It was just UsTwo personally attacking me, childishly. I could post the letter/personal message that we both recieved from a mod to not antagonize each other, and I have IM'd mods about it, but I guess the warning meant nothing. Perhaps, he felt it had been a month or 2 and he could get away with it, while I have not replied to any of his posts in other threads and in fact have gone out of my way to avoid even refering to him or his posts directly. Sorry but, I am upset about being attacked on here needlessly, it was wrong and I truly believe I need an appology. PS I won't be bullied off here, if he attacks me again I'll just leave..... I don't need to have assholes attack me when I open up about an illness and personal problem. I posted it on here to show policy needed changed and to have a debate... not be attacked and called names.
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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?" Last edited by pan6467; 11-26-2005 at 02:02 AM.. |
11-30-2005, 10:47 AM | #51 (permalink) |
Upright
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I think your case is a perfect example of why there is a demand for the support of the private insurance industry.
Government let you down. Government wants to provide for everyone, but it can't. The insurance industry is in the business of risk management. Their livelyhood depends upon providing you an adequate service. For example. I am in the same boat. Working part time and going to school part time. I can't afford massive health care coverage either, but I sacrafice some shopping, and possable vacationing to purchase my own minimum health care plan. Now I have to pay out the wazoo if I get an infection, but major emergencies -like cancer- are covered to a specific amount. I am buying assurance that for *some* drastic measures I wont go personally bankrupt. |
11-30-2005, 01:05 PM | #52 (permalink) | |
is awesome!
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Insurance companies' primary purpose is to serve their share holders, not provide medical care. Insurance companies can, and do quite often, themselves declare bankruptcy (a much less punative process than a personal bankruptcy) in which case you've lost your medical coverage and have to start anew with a different company. I garauntee you Arella, if you have medical catastrophe your insurance will run out long before your need for medical care will. You'll find yourself in a position similiar to Pan's where you'd be better off not working, not contributing, and dropping out. Ustwo-I love how you complain all the time about people abusing the social welfare systems, yet when someone like Pan refuses to do so he becomes a "martyr." Last edited by SecretMethod70; 11-30-2005 at 06:35 PM.. |
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11-30-2005, 02:17 PM | #53 (permalink) | ||
Pissing in the cornflakes
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I could get quite insulting with you, you are not a hard target, but I will wait for the inevitable.
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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps. |
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11-30-2005, 02:56 PM | #54 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: South Carolina
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agreed about all the insurance stuff bc i have seen them cut off people who have had VERY treatable illnesses that, through no fault of their own, costed over the normal $1,000,000...That, to me, is astounding. as for the Ustwo comment, i have found that the /ignore feature is great...i haven't even noticed he's gone other than when someone bitches about something he says.
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Live. Chris Last edited by Paq; 11-30-2005 at 02:58 PM.. |
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11-30-2005, 02:59 PM | #55 (permalink) | |
Tilted Cat Head
Administrator
Location: Manhattan, NY
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Quote:
__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. |
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11-30-2005, 03:20 PM | #56 (permalink) | |
Easy Rider
Location: Moscow on the Ohio
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11-30-2005, 03:36 PM | #57 (permalink) |
Junkie
Location: South Carolina
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flstf, while i have read his stuff, i find that my life is much happier w/out his 'input' either way. i have, on occassion, agreed with what he was saying, or could, at least, see where he was coming from, but i find that every time i do, i turn around and read another post on how someone is making a martyr of themselves or how some people are lazy and good for nothing or just things that make jerry falwell seem open minded.
So, for the sake of me and any of my comments, i just use the /ignore feature anymore. Every now and then, i'll go throguh and read his stuff, but on the whole, i would rather not
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Live. Chris |
11-30-2005, 04:17 PM | #58 (permalink) | |
Pissing in the cornflakes
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Quote:
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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps. |
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11-30-2005, 05:11 PM | #59 (permalink) |
Lennonite Priest
Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA
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DMV runs fine in Ohio, they have nothing to do with cost (except to add maybe a small $2.00 surcharge).... as for lines, maybe that's because the government needs more locations.... as it is still a government office.
Post Office gets mail out on time.... just they lost footing to technology because they were slow to pick it up... but they kept costs down and do a damned good job. Hey for 37 cents I can have a letter mailed anywhere in the US (and Canada I believe) and it'll be there within a week or less (I get letters from my sister in Prescott Az within 3 days of her mailing them).... that's not shabby. Plus, they are cheaper than UPS, FedEx..... so how are they bad? OOO I forgot they're bad because they are easy targets, they prove that they can do a job effectively, and rather cheaply. IRS.... it's the ultimate government run beaureucracy. The IRS is bogged down by the government's tax laws..... people tend to throw stones at them for enforcing the law.... but that's all they do is enforce. I don't see how your examples are even pertinent as all 3 run pretty effectively. LOL Ustwo you personally come in here and insult me and then get all offended when someone calls you out. It is true you bitch about people abusing the system and when I say I could but choose not to because I am bettering myself you call me a martyr and personally attack me. You are a hypocrite and cannot stand anyone who upstages you. You got the same PM from Bermuda I did and YOU broke it and not a damned thing happened to you. If you had attacked me in any other thread I would have ignored you, but you chose this thread and to kick me while I was down. Well I'm up now and the kicking won't be so easy. You start the fight and then you wait for others to get into trouble. You are an immature bully. And for all who think so...... I think it is time to use the ignore and just shut the UsTwo off. IF enough people ignore him and turn him off my guess is that he'll either just leave and find somewhere else to pick fights and bully, or he'll keep making new nicks until he gets caught and banned. It's not like we'll miss anything of substance as he never brings any facts to debate, just picks fights. Goodbye UsTwo..... you're own hatred will destroy you. Loco thank you...... but please be careful don't want you banned because of him. I'll bite the bullet...... he attacked me he was warned and he chose to make it personal. WE were both told to basically leave each other alone.... yet the second he could kick me he did..... and nothing happened to him..... so I'm answering back and ending it by ignoring him and waiting because he'll attack again under a new nick.... my guess is that he has the new nicks waiting, if he hasn't used them already........ and he'll keep attacking till even those who like him start seeing him for what he is. You want to see less fighting in this forum, make a rule that people need to back up their facts, something UsTwo does very little of.
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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?" Last edited by pan6467; 11-30-2005 at 05:40 PM.. |
11-30-2005, 06:35 PM | #60 (permalink) | |
Human
Administrator
Location: Chicago
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Quote:
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Le temps détruit tout "Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling |
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11-30-2005, 06:36 PM | #61 (permalink) |
Psycho
Location: Buffalo, New York
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Someone stole my thunder when they recommended that you talk to your school. They can often point you to a person or office within the school that might be able to help.
I believe that my school had student insurance as well. I was looking it up just a minute ago, and the premium for the year is $1,257. It isn't the greatest plan - maxes out at $25,000 in covered expenses, but pre-existing conditions are covered. Maybe your school has something similar? Still seems to expensive for what you earn in a year. I have no real experience in Medicaid/Medicare qualifications, although it is my understanding that borderline cases are often automatically denied, forcing people to demand a hearing, hire a lawyer, etc., before they are allowed coverage. Maybe someone could point you in the direction of a law firm that handles these types of cases? On a personal note, my grandfather died of sarcoidosis, and you have my sympathy for the pain you have/are experiencing. I assume you are on Prednisone? Maybe the docs have cooked up something better since my grandfather passed? To address the "topic" of the post, my father is a doctor, and he believes that there is a need for universal coverage. I believe it too, but I have no idea which method/proposal is going to be best for us, or how we can overcome the industry lobby to get it done! I think it is obvious, however, that such a program will have to be paired with reforms that address the litigious nature of American society as well. Finally, I have to agree with some on the fact that this post - as is - might have been better located in Tilted Living. Not taking a swipe here, although it may seem that way. I just felt as I read through the posts that this was different than our "normal" discussions here. Maybe its just the more personal nature of the post? In any case, best of luck in finding a solution. (most appropriate emoticon I could find!) |
11-30-2005, 08:17 PM | #62 (permalink) | |
Lennonite Priest
Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA
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Now, whether I have Sarcoid elsewhere (as it can affect everypart of your body) I don't know. From what I've read most white males who get it, get it in the lungs and it eventually goes away. There is some personal nature on this, yes. Because people like you have wished me well and I have thanked them and updated my health. However, this thread also is to talk about the need for healthcare reform and as I stated, when a policy needs changed and you can add a personal story that sayd "look what the system is doing and this needs changed" then politics (in this case) is the right forum. I'm not asking for sympathy, pity, or anything but to address my personal situation and show why it needs changed. Politicians use personal stories and bring out people to show their personal stories and why we need to change a policy..... EVERY politician does it. This is similar.....only I am able to discuss first hand and can explain, answer questions and offer my opinion and the facts given to me, to hopefully influence some people to realize healthcare needs fixed in the US. There is no martyrdom..... I choose to live and better myself. But I also choose to spend as much time as possible to work for healthcare reform. If someone chooses to call me a martyr because I choose to work and expose the system instead of not working and getting my medical bills paid for as I live in a homeless shelter and lose everything I have worked for then so be it. As for school insurance..... for a male student my age (38) the cost is out of my range, the quote I got was close to $150 a month and that still was with a high deductible and 70-30 not 80-20. And at $20,000+ that would still be $6,000 so I'd still be heavily indebt. The program needs changed. You can't tell someone who is trying to better their life that they need to not work so they can get their medical bills paid. My not working would mean, I would end up homeless as there is no way I could possibly get disability.... nor is there a need for me to be on disability. That's what the point of this thread is to expose the system and say they are trying to tell someone to give up hope and just become a part of the welfare system or work, go to school then go bankrupt, have their credit destroyed and so on. It's a catch 22. I work I lose any help, face collections, bad credit and so on, but better my life and self esteem...... I don't work I get my medical paid for but I end up homeless and trying to get into the welfare system and my self esteem goes out the door. I choose to work. I choose to fight and expose the system and work to get others to demand we find a newer better system.
__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?" |
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11-30-2005, 10:11 PM | #63 (permalink) |
Deja Moo
Location: Olympic Peninsula, WA
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Pan, thank you for sharing your personal story. You have encouraged me to share a bit of mine. It is likely that we will lose our insurance at the end of the year, and no private insurance company would ever consider insuring my husband with a cancer history, or myself for that matter for other chronic issues.
Getting older and self-employed... I guess some would say that we shouldn't have followed a dream, but stayed on the money train. No regrets here, but hub and I are in for "interesting" times. |
11-30-2005, 11:56 PM | #64 (permalink) | ||
Lennonite Priest
Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA
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I truly wish you and your hubby the best. Yes, the insurance industry is all about profit margin now. We're numbers and with cancer or major illness the insurance gets maxed out fast and people lose everything they have worked hard for. It's not right. It's not what America was ever supposed to be about. Look at Christopher Reeve, he died almost broke. If it hadn't been for Robin Williams' generosity he would have. We as a nation can do better. We as a nation MUST do better. Our kids and grandkids will be the true victims if we do not change the process and system NOW. Those who fight for the status quo do so for 1 of 2 reasons..... 1) they make more money the way the system is and they know a change would mean less money for them 2) they are just plain ignorant to the facts, would rather believe the hype that a true universal healthcare would hurt us, and choose to laugh at everyone else's "misfortune" because those people weren't as prepared as they are, plus it's only the poor affected. But when it happens to them, and the way the system is right now, it WILL happen to anyone not ultra rich..... then they'll cry louder than anyone. Only because they were so adamnant about not changing the system when others were affected... their cries will fall on deaf ears. NOONE working hard to better themselves and society should face bankruptcy because of a greedy system that takes advantage of others pain and suffering. Not when we have the power, the tools and the ability to help our fellow brothers and sisters live life without that fear. GM is going bankrupt because of it, mom and pop stores the backbone of the country are going broke, the people are going broke....... but the few in control wish you to believe it is better they go broke than it is to fix the system. If we do not fix the system and soon, we will destroy ourselves. Who do you think pays for the medical bills of people uninsured? The taxpayers, those with insurance, every single one of us. And are we to call ourselves a truly civilized nation if we deny true medical treatment not just emergency services to those who need it? There are those who fight against change, and yet they have no true excuse except for greed. Is greed what we are put on this planet for? The funny thing is the party that espouses God and Christianity so loudly are the ones tthat Christ would expose for using others misery to make their fortunes. If need be I'll quote chapters and verses wher Jesus condemns people for such actions...... and yet the party that supposedly is built for him, the Neocons who want the Christians to believe what they are selling so they wave and thump the Bible for them...... are the ones leading them away from God's will. As Lennon sang in the song "INSTANT KARMA"..... Quote:
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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?" Last edited by pan6467; 12-01-2005 at 12:10 AM.. |
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12-01-2005, 06:20 AM | #65 (permalink) | |
Easy Rider
Location: Moscow on the Ohio
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I agree that almost everything the government does is less efficient than the private sector. However the medical/insurance industry is so out of control that I believe the government will have to eventually provide universal healthcare. As I've said before the medical industry just doesn't seem to be capable of operating in a competitive manner. I don't think that it is just the religious right who are resisting this change. I imagine the trial lawyers will still want the ability to sue for malpractice only now they would have to sue us (the government) which may not be possible. All polititians are being lobbied by other medical industries amd groups who have a vested interest in keeping things the way they are. Our polititians seem to care more about getting contributions (and re-elected) than doing what is right for most of us. Just look at the latest bankruptcy rules they passed making it more difficult to file even though a large percentage of those filing is because of medical bills. They did this even though the credit card companies are showing record profits. |
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12-01-2005, 09:23 AM | #66 (permalink) | |
Upright
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I don't beleive you understood my use of the word "demand". I meant demand as in "supply and demand". Insurance companies supply a service (called risk management) and there is a demand for such services because shit happens. You beleive that government programs are "non-for-profit"? This seems ludicrous to me that you would beleive this and I would like to understand why. If the Government ran under a non-for-profit basis they would take charitible donations instead of taxes. Yes, it is you who are paying for it. And it is me. I, in my taxes, pay for the risk management (by the government) of thousands of other individuals. I also pay for my own. The taxes I can not help. The individual coverage is just self-responsability. Indeed, I would be better off - as an individual - scamming the system and letting apathy take over my own beleif in individual economic enterprise. I could save myself thousands of dollars by choosing to live off of the "forced donations" of others. I would choose not to. As far as the companies declaring bankruptcy. That is why you shop wisely. Is it the companies fault that they fell under? Yes. Did they foce you to buy their policy? No. Pan's situation is not ideal, but we all choose whether to take precautions or not. Nothing may ever happen to me in my lifetime and I may die peacfull in my bed, having wasted thousands of dollars on healthcare coverage that I never used. Okay then, I will take that over being sick, or having the risk of being uncovered anyday. |
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12-01-2005, 09:46 AM | #67 (permalink) | |||||
Upright
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It's only the poor that are affected? Is that just your opinion, or are there statistics or studies behind there, somwhere. It COULD happen to ANYONE. The world could end tomorrow. And, to point out the futility of it all, we are all going to die anyway. I like it when everything is in a realistic perspective that way. Quote:
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The conservative movement is built for God? News ot me. NeoCons have their opinions, same as liberals, and there are devout Christians on both sides. I would ask, why bring Christianity into a matter of economics and political reform. If I had to guess (and this is mearly a matter of opinion) you are in a situation that you did not expect. It is tragic. It is costing you dearly - not only in resources, but in emotions and daily life as well. You are angry. You see the people who are billing you for your medical expenses as being unmerciful. You see the system as choosing to screw you over by its inherant nature. If that is the case there is no help for you. You said at the start that you work hard to put yourself through school. If at all possable, don't cease that. Don't cease trying to understand the world God has put before you. Don't become so wrapped up in bitterness that you demand everyday that society change because you were hurt. Rather stretch yourself. Adapt and overcome. Having been through this fire you will know no end to your personal growth if you can just keep your eye on what is important. I disagree with your solution to your problem, for it is your problem we are discussing here, not societies. We are all self-interested people. Something only matters to us when it affects us "close to home". The solution to your problem lies within you and how you coose to work in the system that you are presented with. Understand, I am not apathetic. I have no idea what you are going through, personally, but understand its traumatic and life changing nature. I have nothing but hopes and good prayers for you. Good Luck. Last edited by ArellaNova; 12-01-2005 at 09:49 AM.. |
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12-01-2005, 11:19 AM | #68 (permalink) | |||||||||||
Lennonite Priest
Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA
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America was built with communities and pride. It is now built on greed. There is your moral decay. Quote:
The reason theose countries are attacked about their healthcare is because it works and the US right and Healthcare industry are scared to death if the people knew we'd get it here. (and my next post will show this.... this post is to answer you directly.) Quote:
Where did I say it only happens to the poor? Quote:
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I bring Christ in because 1) the healthcare industry is run for greed, how is that helping people? What would Jesus Do? 2) I bring Jesus in to show "devout Christians" how the neo Cons are suckering them in. The Neo Cons fight for Jesus, "the US was founded on Christianity... the Left is Godless, immoral, and so on..." those are their cries to get that religious vote.... is it not? So then why would a party so in tuned with what the Bible says about Homosexuality, abortion, sex in the media, and so on, be ok with a basic human need ran for extreme profit? Where does Jesus say "Make sure they have that HMO card and can pay the deductible, before you help them"? Where does it say that? I argue Christ preached we should help our fellow brothers and sisters and in doing so the reward is far greater in Heaven. But it seems to me that this party, that refuses change, that claims they are "the friend of the conservative Christian" "God's Party", believes that man's illnesses are there for him to make great profit on. And for those who can't pay, well they can lose everything, get sicker and die..... more for us. So where is the Christian outrage against this party that treats man as profit? The Neo-Cons have sold this group a bill of fluff and have gotten them silent on the issues that provide profit. Quote:
Am I angry? No, because I could have refused treatment, I knew the cost. Do I see those people as unmerciful? Not at all, they have done all the system could allow to help me. I see the system as flawed, as destructive and as eventually a force that will bankrupt America, run for greed, not for what it's true purpose is, and that is to help keep people healthy and productive. When the system tells someone to stop working so that their bills can be paid.... one has to wonder who would pay the bills then, why would they want me to stop working, and why is society letting this farce continue? Are you saying I'm the only one going through this? Am I the only one who has been told to stop working? I'm not I'm just being vocal and saying the system needs changed now. Before it is too late. Quote:
Nice spin though. Get it to look like I am the bitter one, that I am the loose spoke, that the system is ok, it's just me. Then offer nothing that shows how the system works. Quote:
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If say 1,000,000 uninsured people go to the hospital, get the treatment I gotand can't pay and are told to not work so that the bills get paid and 250,000 (a low number I have a feeling) say okay. And so they stop working. How is that scenario helping society? Is that not more tax money to pay for those bills, is that not higher insurance premiums to pay for those bills, more homeless housing, more tax dollars in the form of welfare that is shelled out? More crime from those who have lost everything because of the inherent greed of the system? So it is very much a societal problem. Not just mine, because I'll survive...... but I see the need for change and I will not be silent about it. I will be very vocal and demanding change and I will share my story, my experience to others and hopefully others will and people will see the truth about the system and not what the Right and the Industry spin as the truth. Quote:
You believe the status quo to be perfectly fine in a pure capitalistic society. But America is not a pure capitalistic society. America is founded on social supports to keep it strong. It all boils down to this..... and I have yet to see a defense of the system, except attacks on me, my character, on this not being a society problem because, I'm the affected one and I speak out in anger and whatever...... So because I can relate what I see as wrong with the system, since I can say the system is fucked up and give explicit accounts and detailed examples.... it's just all me. Yet, there is not one argument on here how the current system is what it claims. There is not one example truly defending the industry. Instead it is attacks on me. I need to prove why we need change? I am....... it is the side that refuses change, that lives on the greed, that shows no defense only attacks. Claiming this is not a societal problem, this is not political...... when the truth is it is very much a societal problem, it is very much a political problem and it needs changed and it needs voices to come forward, that won't be silenced, that can't be bought off, that can share their experiences to change it. People are paying for my medical care, people would be paying more if I stopped working...... keep watching the premiums raise, keep watching as more and more uninsured decide to drop out so that their bills will be paid for.... how long does this have to go on before people see the need to start demanding change?
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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?" |
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12-01-2005, 11:27 AM | #69 (permalink) | |
Lennonite Priest
Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA
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I don't know how well this will come out as there are charts and I suck at ccping charts....
Here's the link: http://www.eriposte.com/health/other/healthcare_US.htm It compares our healthcare spending to 23 other "civilized nations" and how we finish last in just about every category. We spend more of our GDP on healthcare than any other nation and we get less results. And yet these 23 other nations have some form of Universal Healthcare..... so 23 - 1 and we show worst...... which system works best??????? Quote:
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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?" |
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12-01-2005, 11:34 AM | #70 (permalink) | |
Lennonite Priest
Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA
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Here's part 2 no charts in this one. Please debate the facts.... don't attack the source, that's not debate. That's being defensive and trying to put the other side on a defensive so that they can make a mistake and you can then capitalize on it.... all the while your side shows nothing, proves nothing, and claims victory. But who wins? Not the people, not society as a whole....
LINK: http://www.eriposte.com/health/other...ondrugs_US.htm Quote:
__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?" |
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12-01-2005, 03:31 PM | #71 (permalink) |
Junkie
Location: bedford, tx
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the best way to lower health care costs anywhere is to get rid of the health insurance industry.
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"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him." |
12-04-2005, 06:20 PM | #72 (permalink) |
Lennonite Priest
Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA
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Here's another example of why medical reform is necessary:
Pres. Bush seems to believe that the Avian Flu bug is serious enough to warrant Martial Law. So he puts plans into effect. (This is based on a premature fact that this will mutate to become human spread.) Now, in our country we have people with no insurance who are scared to go see doctors because of the cost. Some of these people may get infected, some of these people may actually be travellers on airlines and on the highways and infect others, who like they, are not insured and move to another city and spread it there and so on. Not to mention the kids at school, the coworkers and everyone else they come into contact with. So because these people do not go to see medical personnel when symptoms appear, they spread it even faster. The spread maximizes and people wait until they have full blown sickness before they get help. Thus, the infection could have been passed on to 100's (and that's very low, but don't want someone to focus and attack this because I said too high of a number here) real fast. Now, we look at countries with universal healthcare. Someone starts showing the symptoms, goes to the hospital, can be quarantined right away and the spread can be minimal. Now, we look at third world countries where they have few doctors..... infected people go unnoticed until the disease has spread beyond control because of lack of good medical support..... Another question is, if in fact 1000's or 1,000,000's do get infected in the US, do those with insurance get better treatment? Is the treatment based on how much insurance will cover? Who is going to pay for those uninsured? Are you Neo-Cons, who support this system and refuse any reform, willing and brave enough to tell people who don't have insurance that they deserve to die because they are leeches on the tax system? Are you brave enough to stand behind your policies and political beliefs and tell these people, they don't deserve innoculated because the cost to the taxpayer and the system would be too much? Are you willing to stand behind these beliefs and say the pharmaceuticals have every right to demand as much as they can possibly get for the vaccine? And what if YOUR insurance company decides the cost is too high so they find loopholes or state that you didn't get approval to see that certain doctor or go to that particular ER (even though that was the closest ER to you)? See, our healthcare system is fatally flawed to the point where if a pandemic hits, we're far more susceptible to a worse case scenario and equal to the third world in many ways, than our friends in Europe, to the North, and other countries that have public healthcare. If this Avian Flu is severe enough for Pres. Bush to have Martial Law plans drawn up and ready, then the above scenario is every bit as possible if not moreso. And what about the government? Are they going to force the hospitals to treat everyone showing symptoms to contain the virus and the outbreak or is the government just going to intern those who are sick and without insurance to "dying camps" to save the tax payers and insurance companies from the excess cost? And what happens if you surpass your maximum benefits? Or cannot afford the prescriptions, because the insurance companies call the vaccines "exploratory, unproven drugs", or just flatly decide the cost to them will be so high they refuse to cover and go bankrupt claiming the claims are to high and they cannot pay? Are you, who believe that medical care is a privelege and not a right, truly going to allow this? Speak up....... don't be scared to show your true beliefs. Show the world truly what is more important to you.....profiit or people. Show the world you are willing to let a pandemic destroy a nice percentage of the country just for greed. Those countries with Universal Healthcare maybe flawed but my guess is they'll contain it and treat the patients far more humanely. I have a feeling none of you will. Or you'll come up with excuses and say we can make this one exception because of........ P.S. for those who are going to say I am exagerrating the situation, then Pres. Bush must be also, why else would Martial Law be so important to "contain" this disease?
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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?" Last edited by pan6467; 12-04-2005 at 06:44 PM.. |
12-04-2005, 07:55 PM | #73 (permalink) | |
Pissing in the cornflakes
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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps. |
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12-05-2005, 08:54 AM | #74 (permalink) | ||||
is awesome!
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You keep talking about people choosing to not have medical coverage, yet we've clearly illustrated in this thread that no one is making this decision. In your best case scenario you've "wasted thousands of dollars" and yet you fail to see fault in the system? |
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12-06-2005, 11:29 AM | #75 (permalink) |
Lennonite Priest
Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA
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Amazing, my previous post and challenge to those who support healthcare the way it is has not gotten any response.
I take it from their silence: They either don't believe that can happen....... which then leads one to ask why Bush would need a Martial Law plan for when it does.... or They cannot answer the challenge because they see the inherent and catastrophic problem our current healthcare system has. So again, I ask what happens when the bird flu strikes and people with no insurance get it? Who pays? What about those who do have insurance and can't afford the deductible, or don't have insurance at all, and don't go to the doctor as soon as symptoms occur, instead they keep working and doing whatever, all the while infecting everyone else they come into contact with? Seems to me if we have a President deeming this worthy of Martial Law plans (instead of preparing ways to pay for the cost to help citizens by finding an innoculation everyone can afford and working to make sure the hospitals can handle it) that it is important enough to worry about this scenario...... guess not. Guess when the insurers start filing bankruptcy because they won't be able to afford the costs and the executives million dollar salaries, these people will then worry about healthcare reform...... a bit late though.
__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?" |
12-06-2005, 11:34 AM | #76 (permalink) |
Tilted Cat Head
Administrator
Location: Manhattan, NY
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the rhetorical question who pays?
we all pay. Who pays for uninsured motorists? Who pays for insurance fraud claims? Who pays for those who abuse the healthcare system? We all pay for it. If we don't pay for it in direct premiums we pay for it in other soft costs.
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I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. |
12-06-2005, 11:35 AM | #77 (permalink) | |
Easy Rider
Location: Moscow on the Ohio
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12-06-2005, 11:38 AM | #78 (permalink) | |
Lennonite Priest
Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA
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__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?" |
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12-08-2005, 06:13 AM | #79 (permalink) |
Lennonite Priest
Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA
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Still waiting to hear defnse of the current system and how we're going to pay for this nasty pandemic.......
The silence from the people opposed to scialized healthcare and supporters of the current system is deafening and very apparent they cannot answer and defend their stance.
__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?" |
12-08-2005, 06:39 AM | #80 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: bedford, tx
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do I defend the current system? hell no. its atrocious. how do we fix it? abolish the health insurance industry. it is the health insurance industry, hell its the insurance industry period, that is causing the problem. It's also how we have socialized medicine. and socialized disaster insurance, auto insurance, anything with insurance.
__________________
"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him." |
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medical, reform |
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