Is your printer spying on you? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

StanT · 10-20-2005, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Is Your Printer Spying On You?
Consumer Privacy Group Says It Has Broken The Code

POSTED: 2:50 pm MDT October 19, 2005

DENVER -- It sounds like something out of a James Bond novel, but a California group says it's very real and it may be right in the printer next to your computer.

"It" is a secret tracking code that the government has apparently known about for years but the general public is just becoming aware of.

According to the Electronic Frontier Foundation, the U.S. government has persuaded color laser printer manufacturers to incorporate a color code into their printers that allows anyone who knows the code to trace where it came from.

At the Secret Service, which helps develop such technologies with other government agencies and industry, spokesman Eric Zahren said the tool is designed "simply to make it more difficult to utilize that equipment for the illegal activity of reproducing genuine U.S. currency."

"They do not in any way track the use of a personal computer or a person's computer's hardware or software," he added, refusing to elaborate on the technologies.

The code consists of tiny yellow dots, visible only under a colored light and only under a magnifying glass or microsope. A researcher for the EFF said he's examined printed papers that are 10 years old that have the code, so it has apparently been around awhile.

In Nov. 2004, PC World published an article stating that "several printer companies quietly encode the serial number and the manufacturing code of their color laser printers and color copiers on every document those machines produce. Governments, including the United States, already use the hidden markings to track counterfeiters."

The revelation didn't spur much reaction at the time.

Some Canon, Dell, Epson and Xerox color laser printers were found to contain the coded dots, according to the EFF. They released a list of the printers they've checked that do and do not have the code. They also have posted instructions for home users to print sheets to see if their printers contain the coded dots.

The EFF has filed a Freedom of Information Act request in an effort to learn more about the code, how it came to be and how long it has been used in law enforcement.

"Underground democracy movements ... will always need the anonymity of simple paper documents, but this technology makes it easier for governments to find dissenters," said Lee Tien, EFF senior staff attorney. "Even worse, it shows how the government and private industry make backroom deals to weaken our privacy by compromising everyday equipment like printers."

The U.S. government is involved with other countries in a separate anti-counterfeiting program meant to prevent currency from being scanned and printed.

Adobe Systems Inc. has acknowledged quietly adding the government software to its Photoshop software at the request of regulators and international bankers.

But David Skidmore, a spokesman at the Federal Reserve Board, said that the technology, known as the Counterfeit Deterrence System, was aimed mostly at personal computers and ink-jet printers -- not the high-end machines.

Seems a bit big brotherish to me. Back room deals to put hidden embeded codes so that any printed material could be tracked back to a specific printer and date.

Hyperlinks in the article, itself, list printers that are known to have this embeded and some that are not. I'm happy to see both of my printers listed on the "not" list.

Comments?

Coppertop · 10-20-2005, 11:29 AM

Well this is interesting. I work for one of the companies listed in the manufacturer list. I had no idea this was going on. This does in fact seem rather shady. Welcome to the age of information.

Cynthetiq · 10-20-2005, 11:45 AM

eh.. has no more fear of being abused than any other system...

politicophile · 10-20-2005, 12:21 PM

The only printers affected are color laser ones? Those aren't exactly the sort of machines most of us have sitting on our desks, in part because they are quite expensive. I was under the impression that schools and large businesses are the ones with that kind of equipment. In any event, there aren't very many ways your printer code could nail you: counterfeiting is one, ransom and/or threatening notes is another... I wouldn't have any problems with the government having the ability to, if they went through the effort, know that a certain paper came from my printer. Much ado about nothing?

Mantus · 10-20-2005, 12:26 PM

Well I suppose it's a tremendous help in criminal investigations. It's not like they will bother using this info to find out who posted all those "Lost Pet" posters around the neighbourhood. Even if they do all the know is which printer type it came from, I doubt the dots contain your GPS co-ordinates and if they do, well I am gona start hading out flyers:

Hot chick in uniform wanted. Handcufs a must. You know how to find me.

cyrnel · 10-20-2005, 12:43 PM

I remember this began 11-12yrs ago? Very hush-hush. I was a PostScript/RIP jockey doing printer development. We had publishing customers so preoccupied with dot-perfect output the idea of intentional corruption was unthinkable.

As I recall there was a negotiated truce that targeted small and mid-range engines. That's about when the profit picture eroded and I changed jobs, so I never knew how far things went.

Now that it's become common knowledge I expect watermarks will enjoy a new popularity.

StanT · 10-20-2005, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by politicophile

The only printers affected are color laser ones? Those aren't exactly the sort of machines most of us have sitting on our desks, in part because they are quite expensive.
...
I wouldn't have any problems with the government having the ability to, if they went through the effort, know that a certain paper came from my printer. Much ado about nothing?

Actually, most of the ones mentioned are low to medium end inkjet photo printers.

My $150 HP printer is specifically mentioned as not having this embeded, but some of the competitive products that I looked at are. While it does a nice job on photographs, there is no chance that anyone is going to mistake a $100 bill printed on my printer for the real thing. Higher end printers were specificly excluded.

Guess I need to run around he neighborhood pulling down all of those "Bush sucks" posters that I printed before the secret service comes knocking on my door.

Paq · 10-20-2005, 01:48 PM

i recently came across this in my pro photo forum and essentially, it is more for tracking counterfeiting, etc, and really, it isn't something i'm the least bit concerned over.

albania · 10-21-2005, 11:21 AM

It isn't a bad thing, at least in my opinion, ever since currency was invented someone has tried to counterfeit it, all it means now is that those jackoff teenagers that think they can counterfeit money by using their printer get caught. I think it would be logistically impossible for the government to use this to track its citizens although there is a possibility for that to occur, I’m not to worried.

Psycho Dad · 10-21-2005, 02:29 PM

This reminds me of how the investigators tracked the computer that the BTK killer used via a floppy disk. I had no idea that this was possible, but apprently it is.

Did the governemnt abuse this in catching BTK? I doubt it.
Will the government snoop into my doings when I print pictures of my niece's first birthday party? Again I doubt it.

Marvelous Marv · 10-22-2005, 09:10 AM

Wait until the marketing people get ahold of this one. You send in a complaint letter about your lawnmower, and the next thing you know, some telemarketer is trying to sell you a new one.

Guess I'll pay cash for my printers from now on.

Locobot · 10-22-2005, 10:29 AM

I've known about this for years. The code is present in all color photocopiers as well. They can trace the serial number of the machine and, in most cases, figure out who owns it. Everything I print is pretty well protected by the first amendment. Counterfeiters and kiddie porn producers should be worried though.

10-20-2005, 11:45 AM	#3 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	eh.. has no more fear of being abused than any other system... __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

10-20-2005, 12:21 PM	#4 (permalink)
politicophile Addict	The only printers affected are color laser ones? Those aren't exactly the sort of machines most of us have sitting on our desks, in part because they are quite expensive. I was under the impression that schools and large businesses are the ones with that kind of equipment. In any event, there aren't very many ways your printer code could nail you: counterfeiting is one, ransom and/or threatening notes is another... I wouldn't have any problems with the government having the ability to, if they went through the effort, know that a certain paper came from my printer. Much ado about nothing? __________________ The peculiar evil of silencing the expression of an opinion is, that it is robbing the human race; posterity as well as the existing generation; those who dissent from the opinion, still more than those who hold it. If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth: if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by its collision with error. ~John Stuart Mill, On Liberty

10-20-2005, 12:43 PM	#6 (permalink)
cyrnel Adequate Location: In my angry-dome.	I remember this began 11-12yrs ago? Very hush-hush. I was a PostScript/RIP jockey doing printer development. We had publishing customers so preoccupied with dot-perfect output the idea of intentional corruption was unthinkable. As I recall there was a negotiated truce that targeted small and mid-range engines. That's about when the profit picture eroded and I changed jobs, so I never knew how far things went. Now that it's become common knowledge I expect watermarks will enjoy a new popularity. __________________ There are a vast number of people who are uninformed and heavily propagandized, but fundamentally decent. The propaganda that inundates them is effective when unchallenged, but much of it goes only skin deep. If they can be brought to raise questions and apply their decent instincts and basic intelligence, many people quickly escape the confines of the doctrinal system and are willing to do something to help others who are really suffering and oppressed." -Manufacturing Consent: Noam Chomsky and the Media, p. 195

10-20-2005, 01:48 PM	#8 (permalink)
Paq Junkie Location: South Carolina	i recently came across this in my pro photo forum and essentially, it is more for tracking counterfeiting, etc, and really, it isn't something i'm the least bit concerned over. __________________ Live. Chris

10-21-2005, 02:29 PM	#10 (permalink)
Psycho Dad Mulletproof Location: Some nucking fut house.	This reminds me of how the investigators tracked the computer that the BTK killer used via a floppy disk. I had no idea that this was possible, but apprently it is. Did the governemnt abuse this in catching BTK? I doubt it. Will the government snoop into my doings when I print pictures of my niece's first birthday party? Again I doubt it. __________________ Don't always trust the opinions of experts.

10-20-2005, 11:29 AM	#2 (permalink)
Coppertop Getting Medieval on your ass Location: 13th century Europe	Well this is interesting. I work for one of the companies listed in the manufacturer list. I had no idea this was going on. This does in fact seem rather shady. Welcome to the age of information.

10-20-2005, 12:26 PM	#5 (permalink)
Mantus lascivious	Well I suppose it's a tremendous help in criminal investigations. It's not like they will bother using this info to find out who posted all those "Lost Pet" posters around the neighbourhood. Even if they do all the know is which printer type it came from, I doubt the dots contain your GPS co-ordinates and if they do, well I am gona start hading out flyers: Hot chick in uniform wanted. Handcufs a must. You know how to find me.

10-21-2005, 11:21 AM	#9 (permalink)
albania Psycho	It isn't a bad thing, at least in my opinion, ever since currency was invented someone has tried to counterfeit it, all it means now is that those jackoff teenagers that think they can counterfeit money by using their printer get caught. I think it would be logistically impossible for the government to use this to track its citizens although there is a possibility for that to occur, I’m not to worried.

10-22-2005, 09:10 AM	#11 (permalink)
Marvelous Marv Cunning Runt Location: Taking a mulligan	Wait until the marketing people get ahold of this one. You send in a complaint letter about your lawnmower, and the next thing you know, some telemarketer is trying to sell you a new one. Guess I'll pay cash for my printers from now on. __________________ "The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money." Margaret Thatcher

10-22-2005, 10:29 AM	#12 (permalink)
Locobot is awesome!	I've known about this for years. The code is present in all color photocopiers as well. They can trace the serial number of the machine and, in most cases, figure out who owns it. Everything I print is pretty well protected by the first amendment. Counterfeiters and kiddie porn producers should be worried though.