xepherys

Is the like Quebeceres(?) vs. the rest of Canada?

Lebell

Very similiar.

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splck

I'd say it's more like toronto vs the rest of Canada.

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iblade

There's a saying that goes "We love France, but we hate the French." France is still the most popular country in the world, in terms of number of tourists...

albania

The english, there is way more history there.

aswo

so true so very very true

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biznatch

Actually, during WW2, there was the occupied zone(North) and an un-occupied zone (South).

biznatch

I disagree. Its not the same. As a frenchman, who has also visited Canada, and Quebec several times, its a different thing.
Canada is totally different from Quebec; the culture, the language, the behaviour.. So I think peeps from Quebec are sort of estranged from the "USA junior" type of Canadians living outside of Quebec...
Parisians(and not all), mostly the rich, anal, high class ones have some sort of disdain from the rest, especially non urban areas. But then again, its like New Yorkers vs. what they consider Rednecks.

djtestudo

Unless I'm misunderstanding what I know on the subject, the southern part was essentially a German puppet state during the war.

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Turbotom

Best thread ever...

Zyr

I went with the English, cause NZ wasn't an option, but the American's are probably the best at it. Sure, the English and Germans beat them up, but the Americans took every reference to their country and replaced it with the word Freedom. Hatred.

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biznatch

hahaha, its true, that is pretty extreme . Although I found it a bit ridiculous, it is weird to think some people would seriously take the word "french fries" out of their vocabulary, and annoy people in the same restaurant who would use the original term...

Pip

It's Trafalgar Day today!

So, I think the English are the classicist French haters, while the Germans are the romantic French haters, the Americans the post-colonial and the French as the... uh, deconstructionalist? *shrugs*

Coppertop

When that stupid Freedom Fries thing came up there was a restaurant in Santa Cruz with Impeach Bush Fries on its menu.

james t kirk

No, Toronto doesn't pay much attention to the rest of the country really.

The rest of the country hates Toronto, but Toronto loves everyone. We just want to go out for dinner at a nice restaurant. And no, Red Lobster is not a nice restaurant.

Charlatan

This is exactly right on all counts (especially the restaurtant )

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Willravel

Yes!!! Santa Cruz's Saturn Cafe featured "Impeach George W. Bush fries" on their menu. http://www.saturncafe.com/

Charlatan

French Fries originate in Belgium.... silly Americans.

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Mauser

I always found it ironic how much the US has hated the french since WWII. The french pretty well handed the US their independance in the 1770's plus the statue of liberty and other goodies.

France had been fighting off invaders for hundreds of years, so what if they couldn't defeat germany in WWII.

Coppertop

The US has hated France since WW2? That's news to me. I don't hate anybody.

aceventura3

I agree.

Other than my wife wanting to go there, (for what reason I don't know - and she can't really explain other than to say it seems like a good thing to do), why should I ever think about France. They are not a military power, not an economic power, not a cultural power, and you can get better wine in California.

I think most Americans are indifferent towards France. I suppose indifference could be worse than hatered because they are not even worth an emotional investment.

biznatch

I agree with most of what yoy say...except for the "cultural power". If France is the most visited country in the world, there's a reason. Paris in itself is a center of culture..The Louvre is one of the largest and most culturally diverse in the world. I think France is a cultural power.

drewg

Well, they are the 5th largest economy in the world (after the US, Japan, Germany and the UK) and the has the 3rd largest (46.2b$, second only to the US' 455.1b$ and the UK's 47.4b$)1 defence budget. France is one of the most powerfull countries in the European Union, but compared to the US their economic and military power is indeed a lot less. As biznatch pointed out, France is also a cultural power, but they no longer hold the strong cultural position they held from the time around King Louis XIV until the first half of the 20th century. English is now undoubtably the most common lingua franca, and American cultural influence can be felt in every corner of the world. Again, France is a world power, but they are not a superpower.

Anyway. I'd have to go with the English as the classic French haters. They've fought countless wars with each other, with the balance of power tilting back and fourth over the centuries. They are true historical rivals. The US has never fought France, and has been their allies in at least 3 major conflicts. However, both the French and the Americans tend to pride themselves with being the founders of the modern democratic state, which is a source of conflict.

Me, being a Norwegian dislike both France and the US (actually, we dislike everyone larger than us, which is actually most countries in the world), but not nearly as much as hate Sweden. Darn Swedes

aceventura3

I talked to my wife to get a better understanding of what her interest in France is. She wants to look at old buildings, old art, drive in the big circle, take a romantic picture somewhere at a bridge and another one at the Eiffel Tower. I said what about Vegas, she said

aceventura3

That surprised me. I thought France's economy was
whithering away like an unharvested grape on the vine.

But then again, I don't really think about France.

drewg

Well, they're not doing too good and neither is Germany, but they are still significant. Oh, and BBC informed me this morning: China has passed France and the UK, and are now the 4th larges economy in the world behind the US, Japan and Germany.

Seer666

No,we have pleanty of reason to hate them. Politicaly, they claim to be our friends and allies, but have you ever noticed every time a country desides they hate us and want to kill americans, the french are the first in line to start selling them weapons? Take a look at the USS Stark. Hit by an Exocet missle. Who gave the Iraqies that missle to shot at us? yup. The french. With friends like them, who needs enemies? Ah well, one of these days we will cripple their military completly by blowing up their white flag factory.

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sailor

Break it up into periods of history. Middle ages? England, without a doubt, especially since there was no Germany--100 years war, anyone?. Imperial ages up through WW2? Germans, without a doubt--Franco-Prussian war? World War 1? The Germans hated France for a long time, they felt like France was laughing at them behind their backs. Now? Americans, for stupid reasons. I mean, it's OK to make fun of them sometimes, but seriously thinking the French suck? Ignorant and immature. Most of the people saying things like that are the same people that have never been out of the state, much less the country.

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james t kirk

Actually, in terms of a military, the French are something like third in the world.

Economically, they are the largest foreign investor in the USA.

Culture, surely you jest. France has nothing but a cultural history. The USA has McDonalds.

guyy

Culture is culture, be it Whitman, Melville, the spiritual, jazz, rock-n-roll, the Broadway musical, Elvis, Hollywood, McDonalds, or Tim Hortons, Glenn Gould, & NFB films. Surely Canadians are aware of the immense cultural power of their neighbour to the South.

Back to the issue of French and the US culture: France and the US have shared quite a bit, too. Academic postmodernism would have been unthinkable without either the American academy or all those French intellectuals hanging out at SUNY-Whatever and UC-Whatnot. So, for about 20 years, there was a certain convergence of French and American culture at the level of philosophy. Philosophy isn't everything, but it's not nothing either.

Marvelous Marv

Don't hate me because I didn't do current research on this, but the last time I looked, CALIFORNIA had the 5th largest economy in the world.

Just to keep it in perspective.

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aceventura3

I love McDonalds.

What makes France's culture better?

If I had to pick a culture to live in as an average person I prefer many of the native American cultures to western European cultures.

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braindamage351

The Louvre is actually a good example of what France is culturally these days. A place filled with people trying to take credit for stuff that was done by others 100 years ago. And they stuck their crappy modernist glass pyramid on top of it all. The most famous painting in it is by an Italian and the most famous sculpture in it is by a Greek. People didn't come there because they like the country, they came because the stuff was in France and there was no other way to get to it.

What do the Eiffel Tower, the Arc de Triomphe, the Notre Dame cathedral, Les Miserables, Madame Bovary, 20000 Leagues Under the Sea, and champagne have in common? Their creators are all long dead, and yet the French still want to take credit for them.