Who are the classic France haters? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Meridae'n · 09-12-2005, 11:47 PM

Didn't quite know where to put this one... this place seems appropriate.

Me and a few of the boys were discussing this over poker the other night whilst half-cut, and we couldn't quite work out who hates the french the most (a little TIC). We came up with these options:

1. The English - hated them first, so to speak. But then again that is long ago and they have been allies for a long time. Question: Do the English really hate anyone or is it all just some sort of "rivarly between gentlemen"?

2. The Germans - created a nation state based on hating France and invaded France several times, sometimes even purely for the sake of doing so. Have however recently been seen being very friendly towards the French. Question: Genuine change or Plan B?

3. The Americans - currently most vocal France haters, but still fairly new in the hating France business. Owe their nation to the French. Question: Do they even know what France is?

4. The French themselves - reelected Jacques Chirac with 82%. Question redundant.

Daniel_ · 09-13-2005, 02:48 AM

Clearly it's the English.

We've hated the French for a thousand years or more.

Pacifier · 09-13-2005, 03:46 AM

I think the fact that so many Americans hate the french is some kind of funny.
The Germans and English have at least fought many wars against them.
The Americans have not, their hate seem to be more of the "we want to hate them too" side. Pointless but amusing.

Ustwo · 09-13-2005, 04:02 AM

Is there a nation that doesn't hate the French?

(besides Iraq's last government)

Though to answer I think the French themselves seems the best answer.

Lebell · 09-13-2005, 06:15 AM

I find it interesting that within France, you also have Parisians vs. the rest of the Country.

Go Figure.

Anyway, I went with the English. That's a long, deep divide.

alansmithee · 09-13-2005, 06:38 AM

I had to go with Germans. Everyone else talks about hating France, but only Germany has actually done anything about it.

Ustwo · 09-13-2005, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alansmithee

I had to go with Germans. Everyone else talks about hating France, but only Germany has actually done anything about it.

Ok that did make me laugh out loud, but the English did it to the French for far longer, even if it hasn't been in living memory.

Seaver · 09-13-2005, 08:46 AM

Quote:

The Americans have not, their hate seem to be more of the "we want to hate them too" side. Pointless but amusing.

Well the French haven't liked us since the DeGaulle Period when we asked them to give up their colonies (then turned around to help them). Since then the resentment has been growing.

Of course we rub in WWII in their face every chance we get, but it's been a two way street. To say we're just trying to have someone to dislike it's not giving the French their half of the credit.

alansmithee · 09-13-2005, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

Ok that did make me laugh out loud, but the English did it to the French for far longer, even if it hasn't been in living memory.

Well, the English never took over France (although I will admit that they've bene in the France-hating business longer than Germany, since they were anti-France before there was a "Germany" [although I don't know if the English can really hate anyone, in general they seem a bit too refined for that]).

Also, why are there so many trees on the Champs Elysees?
...
...
...
Because Germans love marching in the shade! *rimshot*

martinguerre · 09-13-2005, 09:15 AM

oh, the English did something about it. They took over about the same percent at the Germans did (do recall that Vichy was still a state unto it's own), and even claimed the royal crown. They put down Napoleon, raided the countryside every summer for the Hundred Year's war... I'll quote some choice Henry the Fifth, because no greater work of theater has been produced to make English patriotism seem so right, so heroic, and just downright godly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henry the Fifth

Proclaim it Westmoreland, through my host,
That he which hath no stomach to this fight,
Let him depart; his passport shall be made,
And crowns for convoy put in his purse:
We would not die in that mans company,
That fears his fellowship to die with us,
This day call'd the feast of Crispian:
He that outlives this day, and comes safe home,
Will stand a tip-toe when this day is named,
And rouse him at the name of Crispian.
He that shall live this day, and see old age,
Will yearly on the vigil feast his neighbors,
And say 'To-morrow is Saint Crispian':
Then will he strip his sleeve and show his scars,
And say, 'These wounds I had on Saint Crispians day.'
Old men forget; yet all shall be forgot,
But he'll remember with advantages,
What feats he did that day; then shall our names,
Familliar in his mouth as household words,
Harry the King, Bedford and Exeter,
Warwick and Talbot, Salisbury and Gloucester,
Be in their flowing cups freshly remember'd.
This story shall the good man teach his son;
And Crispian Crispian shall ne'er go by,
From this day to the ending of the world,
But we in it shall be remembered:
We few we, happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother: be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition;
And Gentlemen in England now abed
Shall think themselves accursed they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us upon Saint Crispians day.

Seaver · 09-13-2005, 09:26 AM

Quote:

raided the countryside every summer for the Hundred Year's war...

Well according to the English, that was THEIR territory the French were occupying. It was a land dispute, it wasnt as if they just simply marched on France for no reason.

Meridae'n · 09-13-2005, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pacifier

Pointless but amusing.

This is now my motto.

StanT · 09-13-2005, 11:38 AM

I'll go with the British as the "classic" French haters, they've been at it longer than anyone else.

Americans are more like "modern" French haters or even French haters "lite". I think at some subconcious level, Americans are happy that there is another country out there that the rest of the world dislikes.

samcol · 09-13-2005, 01:40 PM

I've never been to France, but I do like them as far as what they've done for America as a country. They helped us win our independence and donated the statue of liberty. I picked the English as classic French haters.

djtestudo · 09-13-2005, 02:02 PM

We paid France back for them helping us by helping them get their country back

I'll say the Americans NOW, but historically, the English.

I think the thing with Americans has to to with the long-standing stories about how much the French hate Americans, so why should they get any love back?

superiorrain · 09-13-2005, 02:02 PM

This is a fun thread, being both English and German i find it ever so hard to decide... throwing in a French Surname due to french blood of yester year it throws me into a quandary. After much thought however, the English seem to be reif with contempt for their fellow neighbours and this has built up over too many years to leave sleeping dogs lie. So they must be the classic haters. The Germans do not hate, they may try but underneath it all they know that to hate ultimately means failure, which is something they fear (hate) more than the French.

*just a side note, i'm a converted. I like lots of French people, very nice people and you should travel down to one of their beaches, WOW!! Now there's some nice ladies to be seen.

martinguerre · 09-13-2005, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seaver

Well according to the English, that was THEIR territory the French were occupying. It was a land dispute, it wasnt as if they just simply marched on France for no reason.

The claim was thin, and the English knew it...it's not like anyone thought of the south of france as Britain. they just thought they could get away with claiming it.

then again, really any talk of nationality is a little anachronistic. But i think the way the story of the 100 year's war gets retold by Shakespeare, and is used to help produce the rivalry that peaks in the Napoleonic wars...

That, i think makes this rivalry the classic one. That, and i'm a student of this era, and not of Franco-Germanic relations. Go figure.

Seaver · 09-13-2005, 03:10 PM

Quote:

The claim was thin, and the English knew it...it's not like anyone thought of the south of france as Britain. they just thought they could get away with claiming it.

Um... Might want to review your history. It was inherited when Henry I (I think, could have been the II) married Elanore of Aquitain. They already ruled Normandy, thus they owned everything basically from Normandy to the South border of Spain.

During a dispute with the King of France their land was "revolked". This was illegal in the French system, and England was more powerful than France at the time so had no military means of supporting it. So war was on.

Coppertop · 09-13-2005, 03:27 PM

The English, duh. Followed closely by the Republicans.

Coppertop · 09-13-2005, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alansmithee

Well, the English never took over France (although I will admit that they've bene in the France-hating business longer than Germany, since they were anti-France before there was a "Germany"

You might want to read up a bit on this part of history before you post any more. Or just read the comments others have made here.

Ever wonder where giving someone the finger came from? Ask any Englishman.

Grasshopper Green · 09-13-2005, 03:57 PM

I had to say the English as well. I immediately thought of the 100 years war; it only seemed fitting.

martinguerre · 09-13-2005, 05:13 PM

seaver, the issue isn't just the loss of Guienne...though you're right that that's the issue that touches it all off. Edward the 3rd decided to address that matter by claiming kingship. The problem is that his claim goes through a woman, which isn't allowed under french law at the time. Yes, Phillip the 4th has a shaky claim to the throne too, but it was technically legal. Edward had not made the claim to the throne previously, did not contest it in a timely fashion...the Capatian dynasty had no legal heirs, and that includes Edward the 3rd. There's a reason Phillip the 4th is the start of the Valois line...he's not a claimant to the Capatian line, but a next best thing thrown in to the throne by his peers.

That's why i say the English knew the claim wasn't really valid. It was an excuse to take out anger over the loss of territory...but in the end, it was the English who lacked the military capability to enforce the claim...not the house of Valois.

I really don't mean to quibble, but i think my interpretation of this history is at least reasonable.

alansmithee · 09-13-2005, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coppertop

You might want to read up a bit on this part of history before you post any more. Or just read the comments others have made here.

Ever wonder where giving someone the finger came from? Ask any Englishman.

It was my understanding that France was never fully taken over. The French royals retreated to Bourges, where they held SW France until they were able to marshal enough resistance to drive out the English. Whereas in WWII, Germany held all of France, and it was essentially a German territory.

But I will admit my knowledge on this period isn't my strong suit.

Markboy · 09-13-2005, 06:53 PM

Well, New Zealand are still the only country to have had a terrorist act committed by France on their soil.

In 1985, French Secret Service bombed a Greenpeace boat, the Rainbow Warrior, in Auckland harbour.

I don't think New Zealanders will ever forgive France for that one.

spongy · 09-13-2005, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markboy

Well, New Zealand are still the only country to have had a terrorist act committed by France on their soil.

In 1985, French Secret Service bombed a Greenpeace boat, the Rainbow Warrior, in Auckland harbour.

I don't think New Zealanders will ever forgive France for that one.

Nor should they. Alas, NZ was not an option.

And that was the ONLY terrorist act committed by the French outside of France?Not questioning you so much as thinking they must have done something else somewhere else.

Markboy · 09-13-2005, 07:13 PM

Perhaps that was the only one for which they were caught. I can't think of any others outside of war-time, and if you consider war-time, what does and doesnt count as terrorism becomes tenuous...

Meridae'n · 09-14-2005, 12:07 AM

I was going to start a 'classic New Zealand' haters but there was only 20 options.

Boom boom.

Markboy · 09-14-2005, 01:47 AM

ah well, you always hate what you envy

splck · 09-14-2005, 04:52 PM

It doesn't matter what country they're from. Intolerant, ignorant bigots tend to be the classic haters.

irateplatypus · 09-14-2005, 05:36 PM

gotta go with the english... so much history involved.

i don't think Americans really hate the french, i would classify it as a mixture of bafflement/annoyance/amusement in equal parts. we can't sustain a long enough attention span to get any kind of hate going.

Ustwo · 09-14-2005, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irateplatypus

we can't sustain a long enough attention span to get any kind of hate going.

Its funny because its true.

Meridae'n · 09-14-2005, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by splck

It doesn't matter what country they're from. Intolerant, ignorant bigots tend to be the classic haters.

Hang on... guilty!

Marvelous Marv · 09-15-2005, 02:39 AM

I didn't see a choice for "soap, deodorant, and ladies' razor manufacturers."

energus · 09-15-2005, 10:03 AM

You forgot Poland.
But the English only hate them cause it is land they lost during the past 1000 years. The Germans hate them cause, wel they hate anyone. And since both are bidding for most hated country/people in the world they are in a deadly duel for top spot. As for the Americans they should keep themselves busy with the idea that they are about to dislodge the top 2 for their topspot of most hated people (I kid).

And there are so many more nations that have a grudge against the French. A few countries in Afrika as well as in Europe. Though the English have the longest grudge match against them the Germans had probably just as many bouts with them. The Franch ruled over vast pieces of real estate when Napoleon was there, so make a longer list or stop trying.

reconmike · 09-15-2005, 11:24 AM

I went with the Britons, seeing the centuries of bickering, but.........

Why are the streets of Paris lined with trees?....

Because the germans like to march in the shade

hrandani · 09-15-2005, 12:22 PM

The French Aristocracy under William the Conquerer (Norman =(Viking Ancestry )) took over England and remained there until present day. A short while later the Norman Aristocracy in rule of England turned around and invaded France, only leaving when French forces under Joan De'Arc forced them out. Who then turned over Joan to the "English".

There's all kinds of neat tidbits remaining from these affairs, e.g. the saxon / norman divide of the english language (piss/shit/fuck v urinate/defecate/copulate)

So I imagine you would be forced to say that yes, the French actually hate themselves more than anybody else has a right to. Especially considering the attitudes of some of the French journalists in Iraq re: Chiraq and Saddam.

It's all the same.

smooth · 09-16-2005, 06:09 AM

alansmithee · 09-16-2005, 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reconmike

I went with the Britons, seeing the centuries of bickering, but.........

Why are the streets of Paris lined with trees?....

Because the germans like to march in the shade

I used that same joke in post 9

stevie667 · 09-19-2005, 08:25 AM

Might be raising a slightly deceased thread, but i can't resist a chance to chime in with my English anti-french ideals.

The English hate the french, the french hate the English, plain and simple, it's always been the way. Yeh we may have pretended to be friends here and there, but we're still better, and they know it

Amaras · 09-19-2005, 10:58 AM

How about the Algerians, or any of the other Countries they invaded and attempted to colonize (i.e. their part of the Congo, the original inhabitants of Quebec/Louisiana, etc.)?

View Poll Results: So, who are the classic France haters?
The English	69	63.30%
The Germans	17	15.60%
The Americans	12	11.01%
The French	11	10.09%
Voters: 109. You may not vote on this poll

09-12-2005, 11:47 PM	#1 (permalink)
Meridae'n Loose Cunt Location: North Bondi RSL	Who are the classic France haters? Didn't quite know where to put this one... this place seems appropriate. Me and a few of the boys were discussing this over poker the other night whilst half-cut, and we couldn't quite work out who hates the french the most (a little TIC). We came up with these options: 1. The English - hated them first, so to speak. But then again that is long ago and they have been allies for a long time. Question: Do the English really hate anyone or is it all just some sort of "rivarly between gentlemen"? 2. The Germans - created a nation state based on hating France and invaded France several times, sometimes even purely for the sake of doing so. Have however recently been seen being very friendly towards the French. Question: Genuine change or Plan B? 3. The Americans - currently most vocal France haters, but still fairly new in the hating France business. Owe their nation to the French. Question: Do they even know what France is? 4. The French themselves - reelected Jacques Chirac with 82%. Question redundant. __________________ What's easier to believe: that a guy was born without sex in the manner of several Greek demigods and grew up to be able to transmute liquids and alter his body density yet couldn't escape government execution, or that three freemasons in a vehicle made with aluminum foil in an era before digital technology escaped our atmosphere, landing on the moon, broadcasted from there, and then flew back without burning up?

09-13-2005, 02:48 AM	#2 (permalink)
Daniel_ Evil Priest: The Devil Made Me Do It! Location: Southern England	Clearly it's the English. We've hated the French for a thousand years or more. __________________ ╔═════════════════════════════════════════╗ Overhead, the Albatross hangs motionless upon the air, And deep beneath the rolling waves, In labyrinths of Coral Caves, The Echo of a distant time Comes willowing across the sand; And everthing is Green and Submarine ╚═════════════════════════════════════════╝

09-13-2005, 03:46 AM	#3 (permalink)
Pacifier undead Location: Duisburg, Germany	I think the fact that so many Americans hate the french is some kind of funny. The Germans and English have at least fought many wars against them. The Americans have not, their hate seem to be more of the "we want to hate them too" side. Pointless but amusing. __________________ "It seems to me that the idea of a personal God is an anthropological concept which I cannot take seriously. I also cannot imagine some will or goal outside the human sphere. Science has been charged with undermining morality, but the charge is unjust. A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death — Albert Einstein

09-13-2005, 04:02 AM	#4 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	Is there a nation that doesn't hate the French? (besides Iraq's last government) Though to answer I think the French themselves seems the best answer. __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps. Last edited by Ustwo; 09-13-2005 at 04:05 AM..

09-13-2005, 06:15 AM	#5 (permalink)
Lebell Cracking the Whip Location: Sexymama's arms...	I find it interesting that within France, you also have Parisians vs. the rest of the Country. Go Figure. Anyway, I went with the English. That's a long, deep divide. __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate!

09-13-2005, 06:38 AM	#6 (permalink)
alansmithee Junkie	I had to go with Germans. Everyone else talks about hating France, but only Germany has actually done anything about it.

09-13-2005, 11:38 AM	#13 (permalink)
StanT © Location: Colorado	I'll go with the British as the "classic" French haters, they've been at it longer than anyone else. Americans are more like "modern" French haters or even French haters "lite". I think at some subconcious level, Americans are happy that there is another country out there that the rest of the world dislikes.

09-13-2005, 01:40 PM	#14 (permalink)
samcol Junkie Location: Indiana	I've never been to France, but I do like them as far as what they've done for America as a country. They helped us win our independence and donated the statue of liberty. I picked the English as classic French haters.

09-13-2005, 02:02 PM	#15 (permalink)
djtestudo Baltimoron Location: Beeeeeautiful Bel Air, MD	We paid France back for them helping us by helping them get their country back I'll say the Americans NOW, but historically, the English. I think the thing with Americans has to to with the long-standing stories about how much the French hate Americans, so why should they get any love back? __________________ "Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen." --Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

09-13-2005, 02:02 PM	#16 (permalink)
superiorrain Psycho Location: London	This is a fun thread, being both English and German i find it ever so hard to decide... throwing in a French Surname due to french blood of yester year it throws me into a quandary. After much thought however, the English seem to be reif with contempt for their fellow neighbours and this has built up over too many years to leave sleeping dogs lie. So they must be the classic haters. The Germans do not hate, they may try but underneath it all they know that to hate ultimately means failure, which is something they fear (hate) more than the French. *just a side note, i'm a converted. I like lots of French people, very nice people and you should travel down to one of their beaches, WOW!! Now there's some nice ladies to be seen. __________________ "The only way to discover the limits of the possible is to go beyond them into the impossible." - Arthur C. Clarke

09-13-2005, 03:27 PM	#19 (permalink)
Coppertop Getting Medieval on your ass Location: 13th century Europe	The English, duh. Followed closely by the Republicans.

09-13-2005, 03:57 PM	#21 (permalink)
Grasshopper Green ...is a comical chap Location: Where morons reign supreme	I had to say the English as well. I immediately thought of the 100 years war; it only seemed fitting. __________________ "They say that patriotism is the last refuge to which a scoundrel clings; steal a little and they throw you in jail, steal a lot and they make you king" Formerly Medusa

09-13-2005, 05:13 PM	#22 (permalink)
martinguerre whosoever Location: New England	seaver, the issue isn't just the loss of Guienne...though you're right that that's the issue that touches it all off. Edward the 3rd decided to address that matter by claiming kingship. The problem is that his claim goes through a woman, which isn't allowed under french law at the time. Yes, Phillip the 4th has a shaky claim to the throne too, but it was technically legal. Edward had not made the claim to the throne previously, did not contest it in a timely fashion...the Capatian dynasty had no legal heirs, and that includes Edward the 3rd. There's a reason Phillip the 4th is the start of the Valois line...he's not a claimant to the Capatian line, but a next best thing thrown in to the throne by his peers. That's why i say the English knew the claim wasn't really valid. It was an excuse to take out anger over the loss of territory...but in the end, it was the English who lacked the military capability to enforce the claim...not the house of Valois. I really don't mean to quibble, but i think my interpretation of this history is at least reasonable. __________________ For God so loved creation, that God sent God's only Son that whosoever believed should not perish, but have everlasting life. -John 3:16

09-13-2005, 06:53 PM	#24 (permalink)
Markboy Upright Location: Auckland, NZ	Well, New Zealand are still the only country to have had a terrorist act committed by France on their soil. In 1985, French Secret Service bombed a Greenpeace boat, the Rainbow Warrior, in Auckland harbour. I don't think New Zealanders will ever forgive France for that one.

09-13-2005, 07:13 PM	#26 (permalink)
Markboy Upright Location: Auckland, NZ	Perhaps that was the only one for which they were caught. I can't think of any others outside of war-time, and if you consider war-time, what does and doesnt count as terrorism becomes tenuous...

09-14-2005, 12:07 AM	#27 (permalink)
Meridae'n Loose Cunt Location: North Bondi RSL	I was going to start a 'classic New Zealand' haters but there was only 20 options. Boom boom. __________________ What's easier to believe: that a guy was born without sex in the manner of several Greek demigods and grew up to be able to transmute liquids and alter his body density yet couldn't escape government execution, or that three freemasons in a vehicle made with aluminum foil in an era before digital technology escaped our atmosphere, landing on the moon, broadcasted from there, and then flew back without burning up?

09-14-2005, 01:47 AM	#28 (permalink)
Markboy Upright Location: Auckland, NZ	ah well, you always hate what you envy

09-14-2005, 04:52 PM	#29 (permalink)
splck it's jam Location: Lowerainland BC	It doesn't matter what country they're from. Intolerant, ignorant bigots tend to be the classic haters. __________________ nice line eh?

09-14-2005, 05:36 PM	#30 (permalink)
irateplatypus can't help but laugh Location: dar al-harb	gotta go with the english... so much history involved. i don't think Americans really hate the french, i would classify it as a mixture of bafflement/annoyance/amusement in equal parts. we can't sustain a long enough attention span to get any kind of hate going. __________________ If you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance for survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves. ~ Winston Churchill

09-15-2005, 02:39 AM	#33 (permalink)
Marvelous Marv Cunning Runt Location: Taking a mulligan	I didn't see a choice for "soap, deodorant, and ladies' razor manufacturers." __________________ "The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money." Margaret Thatcher

09-15-2005, 10:03 AM	#34 (permalink)
energus Tilted Location: Alphen aan den Rijn, the Netherlands (find it on a map, it is there (somewhere))	You forgot Poland. But the English only hate them cause it is land they lost during the past 1000 years. The Germans hate them cause, wel they hate anyone. And since both are bidding for most hated country/people in the world they are in a deadly duel for top spot. As for the Americans they should keep themselves busy with the idea that they are about to dislodge the top 2 for their topspot of most hated people (I kid). And there are so many more nations that have a grudge against the French. A few countries in Afrika as well as in Europe. Though the English have the longest grudge match against them the Germans had probably just as many bouts with them. The Franch ruled over vast pieces of real estate when Napoleon was there, so make a longer list or stop trying. __________________ Somnia, terrores magicos, miracula, sagas, Nocturnus lemures, portentaque. Horace

09-15-2005, 11:24 AM	#35 (permalink)
reconmike Thank You Jesus Location: Twilight Zone	I went with the Britons, seeing the centuries of bickering, but......... Why are the streets of Paris lined with trees?.... Because the germans like to march in the shade __________________ Where is Darwin when ya need him?

09-15-2005, 12:22 PM	#36 (permalink)
hrandani Insane	The French Aristocracy under William the Conquerer (Norman =(Viking Ancestry )) took over England and remained there until present day. A short while later the Norman Aristocracy in rule of England turned around and invaded France, only leaving when French forces under Joan De'Arc forced them out. Who then turned over Joan to the "English". There's all kinds of neat tidbits remaining from these affairs, e.g. the saxon / norman divide of the english language (piss/shit/fuck v urinate/defecate/copulate) So I imagine you would be forced to say that yes, the French actually hate themselves more than anybody else has a right to. Especially considering the attitudes of some of the French journalists in Iraq re: Chiraq and Saddam. It's all the same.

09-16-2005, 06:09 AM	#37 (permalink)
smooth Junkie Location: Right here	__________________ "The theory of a free press is that truth will emerge from free discussion, not that it will be presented perfectly and instantly in any one account." -- Walter Lippmann "You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists." -- Abbie Hoffman

09-19-2005, 08:25 AM	#39 (permalink)
stevie667 Too Awesome for Aardvarks Location: Angloland	Might be raising a slightly deceased thread, but i can't resist a chance to chime in with my English anti-french ideals. The English hate the french, the french hate the English, plain and simple, it's always been the way. Yeh we may have pretended to be friends here and there, but we're still better, and they know it __________________ Office hours have changed. Please call during office hours for more information.

09-19-2005, 10:58 AM	#40 (permalink)
Amaras Junkie Location: At my daughter's beck and call.	How about the Algerians, or any of the other Countries they invaded and attempted to colonize (i.e. their part of the Congo, the original inhabitants of Quebec/Louisiana, etc.)? __________________ Propaganda is to a democracy what the bludgeon is to a totalitarian state. -Noam Chomsky Love is a verb, not a noun. -My Mom The function of genius is to furnish cretins with ideas twenty years later. -Louis Aragon, "La Porte-plume," Traite du style, 1928