09-08-2005, 09:23 AM | #41 (permalink) | |
Insane
Location: Pacific NW
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"The gift of liberty is like that of a horse, handsome, strong, and high-spirited. In some it arouses a wish to ride; in many others, on the contrary, it increases the desire to walk." -- Massimo d'Azeglio |
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09-08-2005, 09:21 PM | #42 (permalink) |
Degenerate
Location: San Marvelous
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Last night FOX News Correspondent Major Garrett reported that Louisiana Governor Kathleen Blanco denied the help of the Red Cross. Tonight, Garrett digs deeper in what looks to be a cover-up and finds out Blanco also denied The Salvation Army. I hope there is a Part 3 to this investigation.
DOWNLOAD and view video here. http://thepoliticalteen.com/video/mgarrett2.wmv
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Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam. |
09-09-2005, 06:02 AM | #43 (permalink) | ||
Rail Baron
Location: Tallyfla
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So tell me host. Did Karl Rove invent these stories. Fox new reported on them, no one else did. IS that because Fox isn't news? or because the LEFT controls the media?
Note: The Louisiana Department of Homeland Security is run by the Governor's Office, i.e. Kathleen Blanco (D) http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7000060641 Quote:
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"If I am such a genius why am I drunk, lost in the desert, with a bullet in my ass?" -Otto Mannkusser |
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09-09-2005, 02:11 PM | #44 (permalink) |
pigglet pigglet
Location: Locash
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I thought it might be interesting to just compare Mississippi and Louisiana to start with. As has been mentioned previously, this is a pretty big difference
************************************************* Mississippi: Lowest Point: Gulf of Mexico at Sea Level (source: U.S. Geological Survey) Louisiana: Lowest Point: New Orleans at -8 feet, located in the county/subdivision of Orleans (source: U.S. Geological Survey) ************************************************* I think that may be related to the huge difference in the aftermath of the the Hurricane in these two places: The state of Mississippi and a good bit of Louisiana vs The City of New Orleans. Y'all can now return to arguing about who has better facts and who is more partisan.
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You don't love me, you just love my piggy style |
09-09-2005, 08:56 PM | #45 (permalink) | |||
Banned
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Are you content to receive your "news" filtered by organizations run by Bozell, Murdoch, Rev. Moon, or philanthropist Richard Mellon Scaife? stevo, get some perspective on how much your own political philosophy and POV has been "shaped'" by Scaife funded "projects". Your talking point about the "LEFT controls the media" is a result of Scaife funding ingraining it into the culture of the right........ http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv...main050299.htm http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv...main050399.htm stevo, <a href="http://conwebwatch.tripod.com/stories/primer.html">more</a> on Bozell, Scaife, and Ruddy.....founder of "newsmax", a source you linked to on your recent post that I am responding to now...... finally, Fox "reports" on N.O. as they relate to assigning "blame" are not news. They are Rove directed propaganda designed to re-shape public opinion of Bush and Fema, via the usual smear of critics, this time the governor and other political leaders in Louisiana...... Quote:
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09-09-2005, 10:10 PM | #46 (permalink) |
Baltimoron
Location: Beeeeeautiful Bel Air, MD
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So host, you complain about the impartialtiy of stevo,s sources, and then within paragraphs post from this site: http://mediamatters.org/etc/about.html?
Wow...
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"Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen." --Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun |
09-09-2005, 11:12 PM | #47 (permalink) | ||||
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mediamatters.org outlines in it's analysis of Fox News coverage of the Red Cross "controversy", which Fox, itself seems to have contrived and self-promoted, you will notice that every statement, is backed by a link to a source that can be further examined.....the Red Cross website, describing it's federal charter and it's mission, as well as transcripts of all of Fox media personalities misleading statements, and MSM reporting that contradicts the statements broadcast by Fox. You do not have to like what David Brock has done in just over a year, but you do have to grudgingly accept it. It has become mainstream, with it's articles cited and challenged, more often than not, by columnists and pundits on the right. If mediamatters was not perceived to be credible and effective in challenging the Scaife and Murdoch propaganda that Rove depends on to broadcast his smears, why would it get so much resistance from the right? It is perceived to expose the falsehoods in the ceaseless stream of misinformation that eminates from Rush, Hannity, O'Reilly, et al, because it is successful at doing so. I cite the articles because they are so rich in links to supporting sources, and they usually do a more thorough job of debunking crap like Fox's fake investigative reporting by it's Major Garrett that Alladin and stevo have offered to this thread as some kind of 'break through journalism", than I could. You can see for yourself on http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ne...nG=Search+News that associated press member newspapers, TV and radio, are not covering Fox news brilliant report Garrett's investigative "news" about the Red Cross being blocked from providing aid in N.O. Show me an instance where anyone on the right would make accusations like these against Fox, the Washington Times, or the WSJ, for example..... Quote:
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09-10-2005, 11:36 AM | #48 (permalink) |
Baltimoron
Location: Beeeeeautiful Bel Air, MD
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Thank you for completely missing, or worse, ignoring, my point host.
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"Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen." --Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun |
09-10-2005, 12:34 PM | #49 (permalink) |
Cracking the Whip
Location: Sexymama's arms...
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I also did some research on Media Matters and Duncan Black and all I can say is that I find the source...questionable. From what I read it seems they put as much left spin on things as the right does. The other side of the Rovian coin, as it were.
Anyway, I would encourage everyone to investigate them on your own and make up your own mind.
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate! |
09-10-2005, 12:42 PM | #50 (permalink) |
pigglet pigglet
Location: Locash
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I wasn't going to comment, but what the heck. While I may agree with many of host's positions, I think it will be difficult for him or anyone else to make a claim that mediamatters.org is anywhere near non-partisan. I don't think host ignored that claim, entirely...but it would seem a little side-stepping was involved, which I take as a tacit admission of their bias.
I think it's great what they do...which I actually perceive to be less of applying Liberal spin, as much as it is to selectively point out Conservative bias....but I would prefer that they, or another organization, applied the same research accross the board of the political spectrum. I don't know if the Independent Media Centers come closer to this objective or not.
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You don't love me, you just love my piggy style |
09-10-2005, 01:35 PM | #51 (permalink) | |
Baltimoron
Location: Beeeeeautiful Bel Air, MD
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"Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen." --Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun |
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09-10-2005, 01:46 PM | #52 (permalink) |
Adequate
Location: In my angry-dome.
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An awesome AP Katrina pic from today:
funny pic of kid...had to remove...lebell Caption said she was waiting in line with family, but I'm betting she found tfp's Katrina threads.
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There are a vast number of people who are uninformed and heavily propagandized, but fundamentally decent. The propaganda that inundates them is effective when unchallenged, but much of it goes only skin deep. If they can be brought to raise questions and apply their decent instincts and basic intelligence, many people quickly escape the confines of the doctrinal system and are willing to do something to help others who are really suffering and oppressed." -Manufacturing Consent: Noam Chomsky and the Media, p. 195 Last edited by Lebell; 09-10-2005 at 03:08 PM.. |
09-11-2005, 02:19 PM | #53 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: Right here
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His first claim seemed to be, biased or not, mediamatters sources their claims. Regardless of bias, readers are able to follow the links and make up one's own mind. In that respect, political bias is irrelevant to the factual items they reported on. The second point host seemed to make was that mediamatters does investigate "left" papers, such as, the NYT. In respect to bias, at least from the snippets he posted, mediamatters is at least less funnel visioned than rightwing commentators/reporters who would rarely, if ever, question conservative news print. That's just how I interpreted his reply.
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"The theory of a free press is that truth will emerge from free discussion, not that it will be presented perfectly and instantly in any one account." -- Walter Lippmann "You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists." -- Abbie Hoffman |
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09-11-2005, 02:25 PM | #54 (permalink) | |
pigglet pigglet
Location: Locash
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edit : In addition, I didn't make the comment concerning the validity, per say, of the sources...only that it seemed that host might be implying that stevo's argument was a little weaker because his sources are biased. Fact is, mediamatters is biased too. If you read through my posts on this subject, you'll find I generally agree with host's position.
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You don't love me, you just love my piggy style Last edited by pig; 09-11-2005 at 02:29 PM.. |
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09-11-2005, 03:34 PM | #55 (permalink) |
Super Moderator
Location: essex ma
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i am unclear about what the "media bias" accusation amounts to in this situation: all media sources are "biaised" one way or another--it is useless to hold up some (fictive, absurd) notion of "objectivity"----there is no way around having to read critically.
and i am not sure at all that a simple statement of some (almost inevitably unfounded) notion of the general political line of a nonconservative press outlet, as such, amounts to anything analytically---what is does do is provide conservatives a rationale for beyond avoiding consideration of information that does not jibe up front with their predispositions--the non conservative press, unlike its rightwing correlate, encompasses a wide range of political positions and needs to be read with that in mind. with the right press in the states, the matter of political line is easier to see and to deal with because the co-ordination of line is such an important part of how right media operates as a whole. the zones are not symmetrical: conservative media is not like other types of media. the matter of "objectivity" in an information environment which for 20 years or so has been shaped to a significant degree by think tanks/industry groups buying science, buying pollsters, etc. and disseminating ideologically saturated information without acknowledging that saturation does nothing to resolve the problems---many of which are created by decisions taken to corrupt information in the interest of blunting critique. quite the opposite, in fact--in the contemporary press, "objectivity" operates to legitimate often inane conservative positions (for example) because the feature of objectivity that seems to matter these days amounts to the adoption of a kind of he said/she said game: if there is an argument from one "side" it has to be balanced with one from the other "side"--nothing in this even starts to address questions of quality of information--it is a paordy of balance. holding to it generally benefits the right because it places their arguments on the same level as others. there is little doubt that the right benefits politically from this and that the various groups that operate within its purview have long since figured this out and adapted how they produce information to it. think about the coverage of antiwar demonstrations: you can have a demo of 200,000 people against the war and 35 people for it and the coverage will come close to placing them on an equal footing. he said/she said. so like i said before, i am not clear at all about what this type of argument about bias, played out at a general level, resolves for you folks, but then again you make your own political bed and who am i to ask you why you do it the way you do? i just do not understand. but such is the media climate that has been made for us, that somehow we swallow, that somehow--against all judgement--manages to structure opinion. it is a sorry state of affairs. i would think it would be a nice idea for the folk on the right here to consider host's posts in more detail and maybe even repay the effort he puts into assembling them with a serious reading. it is also a sad state of affairs that this almost never happens. i would imagine that, after a while, he might grow tired of this space. i certainly would understand if he did. i have. ===== so it is.... for what seem to be obvious psychological and political reasons, what should be a traumatic situation that has unfolded in new orleans--one that can and should function as a wholesale condemnation of the america way of doing class warfare in general (this implicates both "sides" within the reactionary oligarchy that is the united states--a single party state with two right wings) and in particular provides a demolition of everything about the right's conceptions of the role of the state gets diverted into a pissing match about what can and cannot be pinned on george w bush and his band of incompetents. the problems raised by the disaster in new orleans run well beyond this kind of trivia, and it seems to me that there is no way to see this bickering as anything more or less than damage control, not just on the part of folk like karl rove--whose motives and tactics at this point should be transparent to anyone who looks (consider the sequence of fake photo-ops for bush in and around nola, with phantom work crews that are busy busy busy for the duration of the photo op and then disappear, never to return)--but also for individuals around the country, who, for their own reasons, seem to use such bickering as a way pretend to be talking about something fundamental while in fact they work to avoid even beginning to confront what new orleans shows us, and the world, about what the united states has made of itself...the image of america presented across the disaster in new orleans is ugly indeed: better to run away. but whatever--if the united states were even as democratic as any parliamentary system is, the bush squad would be facing a no confidence vote--one that they would in all probability loose, even given the republicans control of all things legislative. but no--so it is that in the absence of democracy in america, the miserable reign of george w bush continues---and now with the added treat of two supreme court nominations thrown in as if the cosmos was geared around playing an enormous joke on us all. better not to think about it too much: continue as before.
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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite Last edited by roachboy; 09-11-2005 at 03:39 PM.. |
09-12-2005, 10:36 AM | #56 (permalink) |
Insane
Location: The lovely Northeast
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Thanks Roachboy. That was well written and it pulled me out of the mental death spiral that was reading this entire thread. It should also probably be posted as it's own thread... I can only imagine how that thread would turn out.
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09-08-2006, 11:09 PM | #59 (permalink) | ||
Artist of Life
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Sorry for interrupting. Last edited by Ch'i; 09-08-2006 at 11:12 PM.. |
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09-09-2006, 01:45 AM | #60 (permalink) |
Banned
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Ch'i , my post #52, here:
http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthr...09#post2118609 .....continues my expose on L. Brent Bozell III and the gulf that his thinking and influence contributes to the growing political polarization in the U.S. |
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comparing, katrina, louisiana, mississippi, response |
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