Banning of headscarves in schools - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Nimetic · 08-31-2005, 04:02 PM

I guess it had to happen.

A local politician (Australia) raised the possibility of banning headscarves in government schools.

Personally, I think this is ridiculous. I believe that it threatens the very values that we supposedly believe in - the right to freedom as long as that freedom does not impinge on the freedom of others.

At the same time - I do not expect that banning headscarves will make terrorists easier to spot. Nor do I think that banning the headscarf will promote mixing/understanding between cultures in our schools. The fundamentalists will simply keep their kids at home or send them elsewhere.

But that's just me. The French have banned them. One German state is banning them. Singapore bans them.... I don't know exactly what happens in Israel (though I'm curious).

What do you think? Should muslim headgear be banned in government funded schools? Or not...

guy44 · 08-31-2005, 06:42 PM

Hell no. That's religious discrimination. We should no more ban headscarves than ban yamulkas or other religious wear.

irateplatypus · 08-31-2005, 07:02 PM

i'm curious... currently, are headscarves allowed in places where other forms of headwear are not?

hamsterdancer · 08-31-2005, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nimetic

What do you think? Should muslim headgear be banned in government funded schools? Or not...

If they are in any way disruptive, then they should be banned. They already ban gang colors and other disruptive clothing.

AngelicVampire · 09-03-2005, 04:00 PM

Yes they should be banned, especially if its a non-denominational school

Personally I am always miffed by this, why is it wrong, disrespectful, silly for someone to were a hat to school however wearing a head scarf is allowed? The British passport scheme disallows people from wearing head scarves if it is not for a religious reason, now what if I was a member of the 4th Day Chavists (a group I just made up who believe that Burberry is the work of God and that weaing a baseball hat is a sign of respect) and want to wear my baseball cap? I am likely to be turned down...

I think we need to start applying things fairly, either we allow people to be equal or we stop pretending that we are making everyone equal and admit that discrimination occurs.

jonjon42 · 09-03-2005, 05:13 PM

well if you ban headscarfs, you probably should ban any other type of religious wear...

all in all I don't see how banning headscarfs is going to do much other then inflame passions. I mean, would you consider banning necklaces with crosses, or yamakas(sp?)?

aKula · 09-03-2005, 06:23 PM

I don't see any reason as to why they should be banned. Some people percieve it as a form of oppression of women, it is however most of the time the women's choice to wear the headscarve. Even if it wasn't their choice (which like I said before it is in the majority of cases) banning the headscarve isn't going to stop the oppression on a deeper level anyway. Actions like these have the potential of further alienationg muslim communities. What the French have done, and what the German state is planning to do, disgusts me (both banning religious symbols or just headscarves).

89transam · 09-03-2005, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nimetic

What do you think? Should muslim headgear be banned in government funded schools? Or not...

I say no. Freedom of religion does not mean absence of religion.

Nimetic · 09-04-2005, 06:55 PM

I must be stupid or slow today. Can you explain better for me...

I can't think of any headwear that is banned. With the proviso maybe that banks used to have a little sticker banning helmets. But that's a private thing. I don't think there's any law against it.

I think that local police have a female islamic member wearing the headscarf. She joined last year I believe.

Nimetic · 09-04-2005, 07:06 PM

I can see the logic to that - however there's a difference I think between not teaching a religion, and not allowing observation of a religion.

On the discrimination issue.. I would admit that I do discriminate somewhat between so-called established religion and more recent groups. Despite not being religious myself - I do see a difference in the magnitute of custom/tradition between muslims and wearers of some other hat types.

It's an arbitrary decision I know...

hannukah harry · 09-04-2005, 08:32 PM

i can completely understand the bannination of some forms of headwear in schools. take my two high school experiences... my freshman year was at a school that was halfway inbetween an 'innercity school' and suburb school as far the kids that attended were concerned. (not referring to color, but many of the students had either moved from detroit or emulated those students). we were not allowed to wear hats of any sort inthat school although yalmukas would have been alright. gangs were definatly a realistic issue there. but after i moved, we were a whitebred middle upper class school that had more indians than black students. and hats of any kind were allowed to be worn (also, bags were allowed in class at the new school, but not old).

i personally think that if headwear has a religious reason then it should be fine. but hats in general, or any dress code for that matter, is okay as long as it doesn't violate someones right to practice their religion.

08-31-2005, 04:02 PM	#1 (permalink)
Nimetic Junkie Location: Melbourne, Australia	Banning of headscarves in schools I guess it had to happen. A local politician (Australia) raised the possibility of banning headscarves in government schools. Personally, I think this is ridiculous. I believe that it threatens the very values that we supposedly believe in - the right to freedom as long as that freedom does not impinge on the freedom of others. At the same time - I do not expect that banning headscarves will make terrorists easier to spot. Nor do I think that banning the headscarf will promote mixing/understanding between cultures in our schools. The fundamentalists will simply keep their kids at home or send them elsewhere. But that's just me. The French have banned them. One German state is banning them. Singapore bans them.... I don't know exactly what happens in Israel (though I'm curious). What do you think? Should muslim headgear be banned in government funded schools? Or not...

08-31-2005, 06:42 PM	#2 (permalink)
guy44 Somnabulist Location: corner of No and Where	Hell no. That's religious discrimination. We should no more ban headscarves than ban yamulkas or other religious wear. __________________ "You have reached Ritual Sacrifice. For goats press one, or say 'goats.'"

08-31-2005, 07:02 PM	#3 (permalink)
irateplatypus can't help but laugh Location: dar al-harb	i'm curious... currently, are headscarves allowed in places where other forms of headwear are not? __________________ If you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance for survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves. ~ Winston Churchill

09-03-2005, 05:13 PM	#6 (permalink)
jonjon42 Psycho Location: inside my own mind	well if you ban headscarfs, you probably should ban any other type of religious wear... all in all I don't see how banning headscarfs is going to do much other then inflame passions. I mean, would you consider banning necklaces with crosses, or yamakas(sp?)? __________________ A damn dirty hippie without the dirty part....

09-04-2005, 08:32 PM	#11 (permalink)
hannukah harry Junkie	i can completely understand the bannination of some forms of headwear in schools. take my two high school experiences... my freshman year was at a school that was halfway inbetween an 'innercity school' and suburb school as far the kids that attended were concerned. (not referring to color, but many of the students had either moved from detroit or emulated those students). we were not allowed to wear hats of any sort inthat school although yalmukas would have been alright. gangs were definatly a realistic issue there. but after i moved, we were a whitebred middle upper class school that had more indians than black students. and hats of any kind were allowed to be worn (also, bags were allowed in class at the new school, but not old). i personally think that if headwear has a religious reason then it should be fine. but hats in general, or any dress code for that matter, is okay as long as it doesn't violate someones right to practice their religion. __________________ shabbat shalom, mother fucker! - the hebrew hammer

09-03-2005, 04:00 PM	#5 (permalink)
AngelicVampire Insane	Yes they should be banned, especially if its a non-denominational school Personally I am always miffed by this, why is it wrong, disrespectful, silly for someone to were a hat to school however wearing a head scarf is allowed? The British passport scheme disallows people from wearing head scarves if it is not for a religious reason, now what if I was a member of the 4th Day Chavists (a group I just made up who believe that Burberry is the work of God and that weaing a baseball hat is a sign of respect) and want to wear my baseball cap? I am likely to be turned down... I think we need to start applying things fairly, either we allow people to be equal or we stop pretending that we are making everyone equal and admit that discrimination occurs.

09-03-2005, 06:23 PM	#7 (permalink)
aKula Psycho	I don't see any reason as to why they should be banned. Some people percieve it as a form of oppression of women, it is however most of the time the women's choice to wear the headscarve. Even if it wasn't their choice (which like I said before it is in the majority of cases) banning the headscarve isn't going to stop the oppression on a deeper level anyway. Actions like these have the potential of further alienationg muslim communities. What the French have done, and what the German state is planning to do, disgusts me (both banning religious symbols or just headscarves).

09-04-2005, 06:55 PM	#9 (permalink)
Nimetic Junkie Location: Melbourne, Australia	I must be stupid or slow today. Can you explain better for me... I can't think of any headwear that is banned. With the proviso maybe that banks used to have a little sticker banning helmets. But that's a private thing. I don't think there's any law against it. I think that local police have a female islamic member wearing the headscarf. She joined last year I believe.

09-04-2005, 07:06 PM	#10 (permalink)
Nimetic Junkie Location: Melbourne, Australia	I can see the logic to that - however there's a difference I think between not teaching a religion, and not allowing observation of a religion. On the discrimination issue.. I would admit that I do discriminate somewhat between so-called established religion and more recent groups. Despite not being religious myself - I do see a difference in the magnitute of custom/tradition between muslims and wearers of some other hat types. It's an arbitrary decision I know...