Figuring it all out - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

tecoyah · 08-31-2005, 09:34 AM

I had a thought today, after reading a drudge report blip about Bush thinking of calling for conservation of resources: I really dont like the Guy. This made no sense to me as he is not really to blame for the current state of this country, or at the minimum he shares it with many others. So....I seriously thought about the Why, Why do I dislike him so very much?
I dont belong to any political background, nor do I think the GOP is any worse that the Dems. It really had nothing to do with the division in this country, nor the War in Iraq. I did not have a problem with his christian following or the corporate ownership of America. It was Him.....Just Him.
From there I had to figure out why I had issues with someone I dont even know. This is what I came up with:

He has the power to fix this country, and has made no attempt to do so. I dont know if its because he lacks the intellect to figure out a way, or if he has allowed the Office of the President to become weak.
He Lies, or seems to be doing so (which is just as bad in his position) to his own people, regularly. My impression is a series of fabrications that manipulate the population into supporting descisions through propoganda and spin. Worse yet he lies to the rest of the world, making us all look bad in the process.
He fails all the tests I use to guage interest in an individual, ie: He seems rather ignorant, angers qickly, has a limited vocabulary, shows a false bravado, has vacant eyes, and generally seems negative in his attitude. While I realize I am unlikely to need to sit down for a beer with the guy...this does come into play in my dislike.

Pretty much I just dont like him.....as a person. But I dont like Tom Cruise either....heh.

Anyway....my question.

How do you feel about George W. Bush?

Please dont use this as a bashing thread....I really want personal opinion

Charlatan · 08-31-2005, 10:00 AM

I don't know GWBush well enough to judge him for sure.

But, given what I have seen, I agree with some of what you say: the apparent ignorance, the blank stare, the apparent arrogance, the alleged lies...

That said, I wouldn't mind having a beer with the guy just to take his measure, so to speak. It is easy to sling shit at someone you only really know through the prism of the media and through actions that we don't fully understand.

I guess what I am saying is that I am still, despite first impressions, willing to ignore my gut instincts and give the guy a chance on a personal level.

08-31-2005, 10:01 AM

I think I might actually enjoy having a beer with him - he seems to have a sense of humour, and while I might not agree with anything he says, I think he's more 'down to earth' than say Clinton was. I think Clinton was interesting too, but George is more of a person to person guy, he's personally charismatic, where Clinton could stand in front of a whole audience and be charismatic. George comes across as a regular genuine guy, while Bill came across as a real statesman.

Anyway, those are the opinions of someone who saw the odd newscast, and once watched a documentary about George W. on his campaign trail.

Is he a good President? Not being American, that's not for me to say.

alansmithee · 08-31-2005, 10:02 AM

I'm slightly pro-Bush. When I frist heard about him as a potential presidential candidate, I thought he was pretty much an idiot who was being put into office by a political machine. This was my opinion up until 2002 or so, when I saw the vehement opposition he recieved by the left, and I started seeing that much of what he was criticized for were things I agreed with. I disagree with much of his economic policy, however which makes for only lukewarm support. As for personal opinion of him, I really don't have one. He seems to be a politician (much more than I first thought) which almost necessitates him being somewhat phony. And honestly, I don't really care much about whether or not I like him personally, because it's not relevant to the job of being president. But I think much of his cowboy persona is affected, because just as it turns off many people, it also makes many more identify with his down-to-earthness. And as for him lying/misleading, I don't think it's nearly as prevalent as many think, and even so I have no problem if he (or another President) does if they truly have the nation's best interest in mind. And as for lying to the rest of the world, I really don't care about them whatsoever. As long as the US is still the richest and most powerful nation, they will still take our cash and like it. They can rationalize it to themselves how they are subservient/dependant upon a country of people who are: more ignorant, unhealthier, lazier, less cultured, etc.

Also, as for him having the power to do good and allowing the presidency to become weak, I attribute that largely to others. I think Kennedy was the first who started the trend of the presidency being more a show-pony job than an actual important member of government. Nixon helped to bring much back to the office, but then Watergate shattered that effort (and more). Regan also exacerbated this process by seeming generally uninvolved with any of the day to day opperations. And Clinton sealed the deal by being pretty much a buffoon who rode a good economy to two terms. Even excluding the impeachment (which I have no interest in rehashing) I would see his term as a waste, and an actual negative on the country, moreso than anything Bush has yet to do (Most favoured nation status for China and NAFTA being two things that USA will be paying for long into the future). If anything, I think Bush's administration has gone far toward restoring some backbone to the presidency.

Ustwo · 08-31-2005, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tecoyah

I had a thought today, after reading a drudge report blip about Bush thinking of calling for conservation of resources: I really dont like the Guy. This made no sense to me as he is not really to blame for the current state of this country, or at the minimum he shares it with many others. So....I seriously thought about the Why, Why do I dislike him so very much?
I dont belong to any political background, nor do I think the GOP is any worse that the Dems. It really had nothing to do with the division in this country, nor the War in Iraq. I did not have a problem with his christian following or the corporate ownership of America. It was Him.....Just Him.
From there I had to figure out why I had issues with someone I dont even know. This is what I came up with:

He has the power to fix this country, and has made no attempt to do so. I dont know if its because he lacks the intellect to figure out a way, or if he has allowed the Office of the President to become weak.
He Lies, or seems to be doing so (which is just as bad in his position) to his own people, regularly. My impression is a series of fabrications that manipulate the population into supporting descisions through propoganda and spin. Worse yet he lies to the rest of the world, making us all look bad in the process.
He fails all the tests I use to guage interest in an individual, ie: He seems rather ignorant, angers qickly, has a limited vocabulary, shows a false bravado, has vacant eyes, and generally seems negative in his attitude. While I realize I am unlikely to need to sit down for a beer with the guy...this does come into play in my dislike.

Pretty much I just dont like him.....as a person. But I dont like Tom Cruise either....heh.

Anyway....my question.

How do you feel about George W. Bush?

Please dont use this as a bashing thread....I really want personal opinion

Amazing how I take the same data and come up with a completely different take on it.

I see someone clearly underestimated by the left, who cares genuinely about the nation, and is willing to take on hard decisions that other presidents had left someone like him to make, including his own father. Of all the living presidents and I can think of no other I'd like to have a beer with, and I think he is the only one who would give a shit about me personally. Of the dead presidents he would still be in my 'beer top 5'.

Teddy Roosevelt
Reagan
Washington
Lincoln
G.W.B.

And still only Teddy and GWB would give a rats ass.

docbungle · 08-31-2005, 08:06 PM

The only thing I REALLY dislike about GWB is his habit of deflecting the blame for everything he is blamed for. Of course, everyone does this, but it is more noticeable with GW because he is blamed for so many things so often. Which is not entirely his fault. But still, he is the epitomy of pompous. And I hate that. Other than that, I'd like him a bit more if he acted and spoke as intelligently as his supporters seem to believe he actually is.

StanT · 08-31-2005, 08:15 PM

To badly misquote Ann Coulter, there's only two things I dislike about George Bush; his domestic policy and his foreign policy.

I doubt he'd be much fun at a bar, having given up alcohol and all.

maximusveritas · 08-31-2005, 08:45 PM

I understand how it's tough for some people to get to the bottom of who George W. Bush is. His entire public persona has been carefully constructed with cowboy constumes, fake ranches, flight suits, and a Stepford wife. All of it obscures the fact that the guy is simply the fortunate son of a former President.

Some people say it's unfair to judge him based upon his past, but I think it's the best way to get to who he was before his handlers began to craft his every movement. Everything I've read about him leads me to believe I would not like him were I to meet him in real life and he would probably not like me. He might even call me a "major league asshole".

Paq · 08-31-2005, 10:28 PM

i'm pretty much with maximusveritas on this one. I consider his former image to be more true to the real person that he is adn not the carefully constructed political figure that is out today.

Maybe it's just my natural hatred of fake people coming out, but I would honestly be th guy rolling his eyes when i saw him saunter into the room.

I also don't go have beers wit people very often, so that's a non issue, but if i did, i'd probably avoid him bc he just has that irritating something about him.

wish i could put my finger on it, really

Tex · 08-31-2005, 10:44 PM

During this last election I remember seeing a photograph of John Kerry fumbling around with a football while Bush is seen expertly tossing a ball around.

The way I see it, I'd rather have my president be able to run a country, not a post-pattern.

I think deep down he is probably a decent person. The fake world he has built for himself in which he is protrayed as a "good ol boy" does not fly with me. Maybe if he would just be himself I would have more respect for him. After all, how many of these so-called "good ol' boys" are sons of presidents, attend Harvard, and are members of societies like skull and bones?

jorgelito · 08-31-2005, 11:04 PM

You know, I am not a fan of George Bush but I will say this:

Based on my observation, I get the impression that he is loyal to his own. Right or wrong he backs them. Not a bad quality actually. Unfortunately I feel like I'm on the worng side of being part of his crowd.

I can see how his "image" can compel people to like him. My personal opinion is that I feel he is fake, insincere. I don't see him as a good ol' boy, I see him as a priviledged in-cahoots-with-the-top-tier-big-business-screw-the-little-guy-type. This is probably my main gripe. I don't really care that he's an idiot or all that other stuff. To me it's more important he be sincere, honest, have integrity. That's all. I don't see him having any of that.

host · 04-18-2008, 07:48 AM

I think I have it "figured out"....the US has been "had"....snookered....taken for a ride. Are there more distrurbing reports than these, even possible? How do we prevent it from happening again, because it appears that there is a concerted effort to extend most of it (sans the pertpetual "vacation mode"), for a "third" term?

Quote:

http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/13/...ney-brilliant/

<div class="ie"><h2><a href="http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/13/matalin-cheney-brilliant/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link to Matalin: ‘This Brilliant Man’ — Dick Cheney — ‘Has Changed The Nature Of’ The Vice Presidency">Matalin: ‘This Brilliant Man’ — Dick Cheney — ‘Has Changed The Nature Of’ The Vice Presidency</a></h2>
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 Filed Under: <a href="#"><a href="http://thinkprogress.org?tag=Politics" rel="tag" title="View all posts tagged Politics">Politics</a> </a>
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By <a href="/author/Faiz">Faiz</a> on Apr 13th, 2008 at 1:26 pm </div>
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<div class="ie_body">
<div class="entryContent">
<h2 class="title"><a href="http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/13/matalin-cheney-brilliant/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent link to 'Matalin: ‘This Brilliant Man’ — Dick Cheney — ‘Has Changed The Nature Of’ The Vice Presidency'">Matalin: ‘This Brilliant Man’ — Dick Cheney — ‘Has Changed The Nature Of’ The Vice Presidency</a><a class="storyexpander" id="exlink1-19090">»</a></h2>
In the span of 30 seconds on this morning’s Meet the Press, former Cheney adviser Mary Matalin offered a series of <a href="http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/04/13/mary-matalin-cheney-is-brilliant-and-people-are-sick-of-bush-bashing-stuff/">bewildering, eye-opening statements</a> in defense of the Bush administration.
Asked who John McCain should pick as Vice President, Matalin offered that the candidate must have “good cred on having experience across the board.” She argued:
<blockquote>Dick Cheney has changed the nature of that office. This brilliant man has made that office completely relevant.</blockquote>
Indeed, Cheney — who has argued that his office is not “<a href="http://oversight.house.gov/story.asp?id=1371">an entity within the executive branch</a>” — has <a href="http://blog.washingtonpost.com/cheney/">changed the nature of the office</a> in many destructive ways, operating in secrecy and <a href="http://thinkprogress.org/2008/03/19/cheney-poll-iraq/">callously disregarding</a> the views of the American public.
Host Tim Russert then asked whether Condoleezza Rice would make a suitable Vice President. Matalin said:
<blockquote>You know, people don’t know about Dr. Rice is that she weighed in on every domestic issue before the President.</blockquote>
Recall, Rice was the <a href="http://www.whitehouse.gov/nsc/ricebio.html">National Security Adviser</a> to Bush in his first term before becoming Secretary of State. Despite having a <a href="http://www.ontheissues.org/Condoleezza_Rice.htm">very thin record</a> on domestic policy issues, she was apparently one of Bush’s key domestic policy advisers, too. 
When Russert noted that the selection of Rice would signify a “third Bush term,” Matalin responded, “People are sick of this Bush-bashing stuff.” In fact, as a <a href="http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/11/bushs-approval-rating-at-all-time-low-of-28-percent/">recent Gallup poll</a> shows, people are simply sick of Bush. Watch Matalin’s comments:
<center><object width="320" height="240">
<param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/dHBMzOfKcYs"> </param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/dHBMzOfKcYs" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="320" height="240"> </embed> </object></center>

The background:

The support is down to 28 percent, but has enough "clout" remaining to put together a contender labeled "McBush", in response to the continuity of policy positions so similar to the failed ones still being implemented by president Bush. Huge fiscal shortfalls and grinding, endless occupation of Iraq:

Quote:

http://www.usnews.com/blogs/news-des...-to-worse.html
President Bush's Poll Numbers Are Going From Bad to Worse
April 11, 2008 04:34 PM ET | Kenneth T. Walsh | Permanent Link

President Bush is spending the weekend at his Texas ranch. But there's no escape from bad news in the ratings department.

The latest Associated Press-Ipsos poll finds that only 28 percent of Americans approve of the job Bush is doing, a new low. He was at 30 percent last month. The pollsters said one big reason is deepening voter dissatisfaction with the economy, which is in a serious downturn.....

Quote:

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/story/34030.html
Jonathan Landay GAO: Bush lacks strategy to wipe out bin Laden sanctuary
By Jonathan S. Landay | McClatchy Newspapers
Posted on Thursday, April 17, 2008 email | print tool nameclose
tool goes here
WASHINGTON — The Bush administration doesn't have a comprehensive strategy for eliminating Osama bin Laden's sanctuary in Pakistan's tribal region and preventing the region from being used for launching terrorist attacks on the United States, the investigative arm of Congress said Thursday.

President Bush and his senior lieutenants frequently claim that eradicating the threat that bin Laden's al Qaida terrorist network poses to United States and its allies is their top national-security priority.

But in a scathing report, the Government Accountability Office said there was no plan that "includes all elements of national power — diplomatic, military, intelligence, development assistance, economic and law enforcement support — called for by the various national-security strategies and Congress."

Al Qaida established its sanctuary in Pakistan's tribal region when bin Laden and his followers fled Afghanistan after the 2001 U.S.-led intervention.

"No comprehensive strategy for meeting U.S. national-security goals" in the Federally Administered Tribal Areas has been developed even though the administration's counter-terrorism policy, congressional legislation and the mission of the National Counter-Terrorism Center mandate such an approach, the report says.

It says that the Bush administration has relied primarily on the Pakistani military to address the threat to American national security.

About 96 percent of some $5.8 billion that the United States provided to Pakistan from 2002 to 2007 to address the problem in the Federally Administered Tribal Areas and adjoining districts has gone to reimbursing the Pakistani military for the costs of its operations, according to the report.

But Pakistan, which deployed 120,000 troops and paramilitary forces in the rugged Massachusetts-size region, has failed to eliminate al Qaida and allied militants based there even though it's killed and captured hundreds of extremists while losing about 1,400 of its own forces.

"It is appalling that there is still no comprehensive, interagency strategy concerning this critical region, and this lack of foresight is harming U.S. national security," said Rep. Howard Berman, D-Calif., the chairman of the House Foreign Relations Committee, which requested the report.

ON THE WEB

The GAO report: http://hcfa.house.gov/110/GAO041708.pdf

Last summer's GAO report on Iraq....white house "reluctance" to share it, triggered a leaking of it:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/pdf/200...%20report2.pdf

Quote:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...pinion/columns

The Vacation President By Dan Froomkin Special to washingtonpost.com Tuesday, March 4, 2008; 1:02 PM President Bush famously, if unjustifiably, casts himself as Ronald Reagan's disciple. But in at least one way, he has surpassed his master.According to the meticulous records kept by CBS Radio White House correspondent Mark Knoller, Bush on Monday lodged his 879th day spent in whole or in part at Camp David or his sprawling estate in Crawford, Tex.By comparison, the 40th president only -- only! -- spent all or part of 866 days at Camp David or his ranch in California during his eight years in office, according to the Reagan Library. (By my count, Bush actually beat Reagan's mark on Dec. 30, during his Christmas vacation in Crawford.)This, of course, is not the noblest of records to break. Reagan was frequently derided for his laid-back, hands-off approach to his job. He even poked fun of himself at the 1987 Gridiron Dinner: "It's true hard work never killed anybody, but I figure, why take the chance?"And, of course, Bush still has almost a year to go. His will almost certainly be a record for the ages.Bush's current tally represents a little more than a third of his presidency. And that's not counting the 39 days that Knoller says he spent in whole or in part at the Bush family compound in Kennebunkport, Me. All in all, Knoller says, Bush has made 134 separate visits to Camp David, 70 to Crawford and 10 to Kennebunkport in a little over seven years.Knoller didn't set out to be the chronicler of Bush's indolence. In fact, in our e-mail correspondence, he shied away from calling Bush's time away "vacation." Says Knoller: "I agree that he can never really be 'on vacation' - since the job is always with him."Knoller explains that he started collecting presidential travel data during the early days of the Clinton presidency. "I though it would be helpful to my radio reports to say how often he visited certain key states. So I started logging those visits. Then time 'on vacation'. . . . Then pardons, vetoes, addresses to the nation, rounds of golf, commencement speeches, foreign trips, news conferences, etc, etc."I liked having these little information nuggets that were not readily available elsewhere."Bush's aides go to great pains to point out that even during his frequent getaways from the office, he continues to do some, if not a lot, of work. He receives daily national security briefings, signs documents and sometimes holds teleconferences. An invitation to hang out with Bush at Camp David or Crawford is seen as a reward for friendly foreign leaders.But at some key points in his administration, Bush has been on vacation. For instance, he spent a month in Crawford shortly before the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, when critics say he should have been more attentive to warning signs

. click to show

<a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A15957-2001Aug29&notFound=true" target="">Mike Allen</a> wrote in The Washington Post in August of 2001, as Bush's first long Crawford vacation wrapped up: "The length of the trip revived old questions about Bush's work ethic." Of course, no one knew at the time that Bush had, during the first week of that vacation, waved off the now-famous memo specifically for the president titled " <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A2285-2004Apr10?language=printer" target="">Bin Ladin Determined to Strike in US</a>." According to author <a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=gV3m6sYhnrsC&pg=PA2&dq=%22+covered+your+ass%22+suskind&ei=eHTNR5PYAqHeyATtxIHkAw&sig=j9X0bhAIixgatP0xDb_IySF6cZk" target="">Ron Suskind</a>, Bush heard his CIA briefer out -- then told him, "All right. You've covered your ass, now."The very next day, as <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&contentId=A2676-2004Apr10&notFound=true" target="">Dana Milbank and Mike Allen</a> wrote in The Post in April 2004, Bush ran into reporters while playing golf at a nearby country club and "seemed carefree as he spoke about the books he was reading, the work he was doing on his nearby ranch, his love of hot-weather jogging, his golf game and his 55th birthday."<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/06/washington/06bush.html?_r=1&oref=slogin" target="">Sheryl Gay Stolberg</a> wrote in the New York Times in August 2006 that Bush was actually cutting short his time in Crawford that summer for symbolic purposes. "Last August . . . began with highly publicized protests by [Cindy] Sheehan, whose son was killed in Iraq, and ended with the image of the president on vacation while New Orleans drowned, an image that helped start his slide in popularity."Nevertheless, he was <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/blog/2006/08/08/BL2006080800490.html" target="">on vacation</a> as Israel dropped bombs on Lebanon later that month.<a href="http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/mason/5042364.html" target="">Julie Mason</a> noted in the Houston Chronicle this past August that Bush was fast approaching Reagan's record. She wrote: "The 1,600-acre ranch has proved a durable haven for Bush, who often disappears into its varied landscapes for days or weeks at a time without public appearances. He has an attractive stone house, shaded swimming pool, miles of rugged bike trails and law enforcement at every entry point keeping people out."In my May 8, 2006, column, " <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/blog/2006/05/08/BL2006050800788.html" target="">Would Bush Rather Be Fishing</a>?", I wondered if Bush doesn't really enjoy his day job. A few days earlier, when asked by a German tabloid to name the most wonderful moment of his presidency, Bush said it came while he was on vacation, fishing on his private lake.

Ustwo · 04-18-2008, 07:58 AM

host I have no idea what you are talking about again but I'd still shake his hand and have a beer with him

host · 04-18-2008, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

host I have no idea what you are talking about again but I'd still shake his hand and have a beer with him

Others do have an idea, Ustwo...others do...and consider that Bush says he doesn't drink beer.

Quote:

http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/13/...ney-brilliant/

...When Russert noted that the selection of Rice would signify a “third Bush term,” Matalin responded, “People are sick of this Bush-bashing stuff.” In fact, as a <a href="http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/11/bushs-approval-rating-at-all-time-low-of-28-percent/">recent Gallup poll</a> shows, people are simply sick of Bush. Watch Matalin’s comments:....

Quote:

http://www.usnews.com/blogs/news-des...-to-worse.html
.....The latest Associated Press-Ipsos poll finds that only 28 percent of Americans approve of the job Bush is doing, a new low. He was at 30 percent last month. The pollsters said one big reason is deepening voter dissatisfaction with the economy, which is in a serious downturn.....

Quote:

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/story/34030.html
Jonathan Landay GAO: Bush lacks strategy to wipe out bin Laden sanctuary
By Jonathan S. Landay | McClatchy Newspapers
Posted on Thursday, April 17, 2008 email | print tool nameclose
tool goes here
WASHINGTON — The Bush administration doesn't have a comprehensive strategy for eliminating Osama bin Laden's sanctuary in Pakistan's tribal region and preventing the region from being used for launching terrorist attacks on the United States, the investigative arm of Congress said Thursday.

....Al Qaida established its sanctuary in Pakistan's tribal region when bin Laden and his followers fled Afghanistan after the 2001 U.S.-led intervention.

"No comprehensive strategy for meeting U.S. national-security goals" in the Federally Administered Tribal Areas has been developed even though the administration's counter-terrorism policy, congressional legislation and the mission of the National Counter-Terrorism Center mandate such an approach, the report says....

Quote:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...pinion/columns
The Vacation President

...According to the meticulous records kept by CBS Radio White House correspondent Mark Knoller, Bush on Monday lodged his 879th day spent in whole or in part at Camp David or his sprawling estate in Crawford, Tex...

...Bush's current tally represents a little more than a third of his presidency. And that's not counting the 39 days that Knoller says he spent in whole or in part at the Bush family compound in Kennebunkport, Me. All in all, Knoller says, Bush has made 134 separate visits to Camp David, 70 to Crawford and 10 to Kennebunkport in a little over seven years...

filtherton · 04-18-2008, 08:16 AM

I'd hit it.

Ustwo · 04-18-2008, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by host

Others do have an idea, Ustwo...others do...and consider that Bush says he doesn't drink beer.

I've very persuasive.

host · 04-18-2008, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

I've very persuasive.

Send Mr. Bush a letter, asking him to resign as president, ASAP.

samcol · 04-18-2008, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by host

Send Mr. Bush a letter, asking him to resign as president, ASAP.

Resign in his greatest hour?

Cynthetiq · 04-18-2008, 08:24 AM

YATLDTBC - Yet Another Thread Locked Due To Babbling Content.

08-31-2005, 09:34 AM	#1 (permalink)
tecoyah Illusionary	Figuring it all out I had a thought today, after reading a drudge report blip about Bush thinking of calling for conservation of resources: I really dont like the Guy. This made no sense to me as he is not really to blame for the current state of this country, or at the minimum he shares it with many others. So....I seriously thought about the Why, Why do I dislike him so very much? I dont belong to any political background, nor do I think the GOP is any worse that the Dems. It really had nothing to do with the division in this country, nor the War in Iraq. I did not have a problem with his christian following or the corporate ownership of America. It was Him.....Just Him. From there I had to figure out why I had issues with someone I dont even know. This is what I came up with: He has the power to fix this country, and has made no attempt to do so. I dont know if its because he lacks the intellect to figure out a way, or if he has allowed the Office of the President to become weak. He Lies, or seems to be doing so (which is just as bad in his position) to his own people, regularly. My impression is a series of fabrications that manipulate the population into supporting descisions through propoganda and spin. Worse yet he lies to the rest of the world, making us all look bad in the process. He fails all the tests I use to guage interest in an individual, ie: He seems rather ignorant, angers qickly, has a limited vocabulary, shows a false bravado, has vacant eyes, and generally seems negative in his attitude. While I realize I am unlikely to need to sit down for a beer with the guy...this does come into play in my dislike. Pretty much I just dont like him.....as a person. But I dont like Tom Cruise either....heh. Anyway....my question. *How do you feel about George W. Bush?* Please dont use this as a bashing thread....I really want personal opinion __________________ Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

08-31-2005, 10:00 AM	#2 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	I don't know GWBush well enough to judge him for sure. But, given what I have seen, I agree with some of what you say: the apparent ignorance, the blank stare, the apparent arrogance, the alleged lies... That said, I wouldn't mind having a beer with the guy just to take his measure, so to speak. It is easy to sling shit at someone you only really know through the prism of the media and through actions that we don't fully understand. I guess what I am saying is that I am still, despite first impressions, willing to ignore my gut instincts and give the guy a chance on a personal level. __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

08-31-2005, 08:06 PM	#6 (permalink)
docbungle It's all downhill from here Location: Denver	The only thing I REALLY dislike about GWB is his habit of deflecting the blame for everything he is blamed for. Of course, everyone does this, but it is more noticeable with GW because he is blamed for so many things so often. Which is not entirely his fault. But still, he is the epitomy of pompous. And I hate that. Other than that, I'd like him a bit more if he acted and spoke as intelligently as his supporters seem to believe he actually is. __________________ Bad Luck City

08-31-2005, 10:28 PM	#9 (permalink)
Paq Junkie Location: South Carolina	i'm pretty much with maximusveritas on this one. I consider his former image to be more true to the real person that he is adn not the carefully constructed political figure that is out today. Maybe it's just my natural hatred of fake people coming out, but I would honestly be th guy rolling his eyes when i saw him saunter into the room. I also don't go have beers wit people very often, so that's a non issue, but if i did, i'd probably avoid him bc he just has that irritating something about him. wish i could put my finger on it, really __________________ Live. Chris

08-31-2005, 10:44 PM	#10 (permalink)
Tex Crazy Location: Orange County, CA	During this last election I remember seeing a photograph of John Kerry fumbling around with a football while Bush is seen expertly tossing a ball around. The way I see it, I'd rather have my president be able to run a country, not a post-pattern. I think deep down he is probably a decent person. The fake world he has built for himself in which he is protrayed as a "good ol boy" does not fly with me. Maybe if he would just be himself I would have more respect for him. After all, how many of these so-called "good ol' boys" are sons of presidents, attend Harvard, and are members of societies like skull and bones? __________________ "All I know is that I know nothing..."

08-31-2005, 10:01 AM	#3 (permalink)
zen_tom Guest	I think I might actually enjoy having a beer with him - he seems to have a sense of humour, and while I might not agree with anything he says, I think he's more 'down to earth' than say Clinton was. I think Clinton was interesting too, but George is more of a person to person guy, he's personally charismatic, where Clinton could stand in front of a whole audience and be charismatic. George comes across as a regular genuine guy, while Bill came across as a real statesman. Anyway, those are the opinions of someone who saw the odd newscast, and once watched a documentary about George W. on his campaign trail. Is he a good President? Not being American, that's not for me to say.

08-31-2005, 10:02 AM	#4 (permalink)
alansmithee Junkie	I'm slightly pro-Bush. When I frist heard about him as a potential presidential candidate, I thought he was pretty much an idiot who was being put into office by a political machine. This was my opinion up until 2002 or so, when I saw the vehement opposition he recieved by the left, and I started seeing that much of what he was criticized for were things I agreed with. I disagree with much of his economic policy, however which makes for only lukewarm support. As for personal opinion of him, I really don't have one. He seems to be a politician (much more than I first thought) which almost necessitates him being somewhat phony. And honestly, I don't really care much about whether or not I like him personally, because it's not relevant to the job of being president. But I think much of his cowboy persona is affected, because just as it turns off many people, it also makes many more identify with his down-to-earthness. And as for him lying/misleading, I don't think it's nearly as prevalent as many think, and even so I have no problem if he (or another President) does if they truly have the nation's best interest in mind. And as for lying to the rest of the world, I really don't care about them whatsoever. As long as the US is still the richest and most powerful nation, they will still take our cash and like it. They can rationalize it to themselves how they are subservient/dependant upon a country of people who are: more ignorant, unhealthier, lazier, less cultured, etc. Also, as for him having the power to do good and allowing the presidency to become weak, I attribute that largely to others. I think Kennedy was the first who started the trend of the presidency being more a show-pony job than an actual important member of government. Nixon helped to bring much back to the office, but then Watergate shattered that effort (and more). Regan also exacerbated this process by seeming generally uninvolved with any of the day to day opperations. And Clinton sealed the deal by being pretty much a buffoon who rode a good economy to two terms. Even excluding the impeachment (which I have no interest in rehashing) I would see his term as a waste, and an actual negative on the country, moreso than anything Bush has yet to do (Most favoured nation status for China and NAFTA being two things that USA will be paying for long into the future). If anything, I think Bush's administration has gone far toward restoring some backbone to the presidency.

08-31-2005, 08:15 PM	#7 (permalink)
StanT © Location: Colorado	To badly misquote Ann Coulter, there's only two things I dislike about George Bush; his domestic policy and his foreign policy. I doubt he'd be much fun at a bar, having given up alcohol and all.

08-31-2005, 08:45 PM	#8 (permalink)
maximusveritas Winner	I understand how it's tough for some people to get to the bottom of who George W. Bush is. His entire public persona has been carefully constructed with cowboy constumes, fake ranches, flight suits, and a Stepford wife. All of it obscures the fact that the guy is simply the fortunate son of a former President. Some people say it's unfair to judge him based upon his past, but I think it's the best way to get to who he was before his handlers began to craft his every movement. Everything I've read about him leads me to believe I would not like him were I to meet him in real life and he would probably not like me. He might even call me a "major league asshole".

08-31-2005, 11:04 PM	#11 (permalink)
jorgelito All important elusive independent swing voter... Location: People's Republic of KKKalifornia	You know, I am not a fan of George Bush but I will say this: Based on my observation, I get the impression that he is loyal to his own. Right or wrong he backs them. Not a bad quality actually. Unfortunately I feel like I'm on the worng side of being part of his crowd. I can see how his "image" can compel people to like him. My personal opinion is that I feel he is fake, insincere. I don't see him as a good ol' boy, I see him as a priviledged in-cahoots-with-the-top-tier-big-business-screw-the-little-guy-type. This is probably my main gripe. I don't really care that he's an idiot or all that other stuff. To me it's more important he be sincere, honest, have integrity. That's all. I don't see him having any of that. __________________ "The race is not always to the swift, nor battle to the strong, but to the one that endures to the end." "Demand more from yourself, more than anyone else could ever ask!" - My recruiter

04-18-2008, 07:58 AM	#13 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	host I have no idea what you are talking about again but I'd still shake his hand and have a beer with him __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

04-18-2008, 08:16 AM	#15 (permalink)
filtherton Junkie Location: In the land of ice and snow.	I'd hit it.

04-18-2008, 08:24 AM	#19 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	YATLDTBC - Yet Another Thread Locked Due To Babbling Content. __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!