Is America Ready for Equal Rights - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

TrumanTT · 08-22-2005, 05:45 PM

Over the past few years, my views on this have become more and more solidified in the thought that gay and lesbian rights should be allowed within the US. BUT I wonder how hard is it going to be to get over some of the big factors.

1. Religion - Some people look at the bible and only focus on a few pasages about unnatural sex while it seems that they forget a HUGE chunk of it near the back about how it tells them to 'do onto others' and how Jesus told us to love everyone ESPECIALLY SINNERS. But there lies the problem. No matter how much they are told to love them, they are still considered 'sinners'. Even though the Church has looked the other way to slavery and genocide before, this is something more written in stone (pardon the pun) within the Bible.

2. Slang - Most people don't go screaming at people shouting 'Fags or Dykes' but the term gay is still being used in malicious ways. Talk with your friends and see who is the first one to say 'Dude thats so gay'. You wouldn't even stand for it if someone said 'That's niggerish' so what makes this term acceptable?

3. Steriotypes - They know fashion, they know how to make people laugh, and hell apparently they all like to come onto straight people and make them feel uncomfortable. Media has placed these onto us just like blacks in the early 1900's. You saw black maids and butlers that would do anything you would want with a 'yessir' after everything. Until we start to turn off these shows that exploit their sexual preferance, outlets will keep pumping them out.

People have had so much misinformation pumped into them that it will take 50 years to correct it. In my personal opinion, if something wants to get done, we need another 1960's civil rights movement. With the powerful leaders from within and even the sacrifice of the oncomming violence with it.

loganmule · 08-22-2005, 09:23 PM

Truman, you might want to take a look at a previous thread:

http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=83108

It centered on the issue of gay/lesbian rights from the perspective of marriage, but also included relevant comments on the equal rights issue generally.

Gilda · 09-03-2005, 02:47 PM

I think we've either passed or are very near the tipping point for gay rights in the US. It does, however, take a little hindsight to be able to identify when such changes occur, and it's much more difficult to recognize them as they happen.

Religion shouldn't even be at issue here. Whether one's personal religious beliefs are in opposition to homosexuality should have no effect on the law. My religious beliefs don't hold GLBT people to be sinners. My parents', and those of many religious fundamentalists, do. Upon whose religious beliefs should we base our laws? Well, obviously, nobody's. This is precisely why the establishment clause in the constitution exists, to protect the religious beliefs and practices of the few.

That said, this is not a religious debate. Gay marriage is not a religious debate. There are two forms of marriage in the US, spiritual marriage, which is conducted and recognized by a religious institution, and which exists entirely outside of the government's right to regulate or interfere, and legal marriage, which is that which is recognized by the state and which grants the married couple certain rights and privileges not granted those who are not legally married. The gay marriage debate is solely about legal marriage, and as such, religious views are entirely irrelevant. Religious institutions are free to recognize or refuse to recognize marriages as they see fit. Divorced Catholics can't get married in the church. Certain branches of some religions won't allow members to marry non-members. The legal protection for religious marriage already exists.

As for other areas of gay rights, perhaps it would be helpful to look at places where gay rights are protected. California's fair employment and housing laws cover orientation and gender identity. Has this lead to a holocaust, a widespread degredation of Californians, a destruction of the moral values? Certainly not. It's led to GLBT not being unfairly denied housing, employment, or education solely on the basis of their sexuality. It's not special rights, it's the same rights as everyone else that we want.

Certain segments of society may be slow in catching up, but the impetus for the change has to come from somewhere. The stereotypes and the use of "gay" as an epithet both bother me, but I think they will eventually, not soon, but eventually, fall away as people come to realize that we are just like anyone else, that we've been among you for a long, long time and being able to openly be ourselves doesn't harm anyone.

Gilda

08-22-2005, 05:45 PM	#1 (permalink)
TrumanTT Upright Location: Columbia, MO	Is America Ready for Equal Rights Over the past few years, my views on this have become more and more solidified in the thought that gay and lesbian rights should be allowed within the US. BUT I wonder how hard is it going to be to get over some of the big factors. 1. Religion - Some people look at the bible and only focus on a few pasages about unnatural sex while it seems that they forget a HUGE chunk of it near the back about how it tells them to 'do onto others' and how Jesus told us to love everyone ESPECIALLY SINNERS. But there lies the problem. No matter how much they are told to love them, they are still considered 'sinners'. Even though the Church has looked the other way to slavery and genocide before, this is something more written in stone (pardon the pun) within the Bible. 2. Slang - Most people don't go screaming at people shouting 'Fags or Dykes' but the term gay is still being used in malicious ways. Talk with your friends and see who is the first one to say 'Dude thats so gay'. You wouldn't even stand for it if someone said 'That's niggerish' so what makes this term acceptable? 3. Steriotypes - They know fashion, they know how to make people laugh, and hell apparently they all like to come onto straight people and make them feel uncomfortable. Media has placed these onto us just like blacks in the early 1900's. You saw black maids and butlers that would do anything you would want with a 'yessir' after everything. Until we start to turn off these shows that exploit their sexual preferance, outlets will keep pumping them out. People have had so much misinformation pumped into them that it will take 50 years to correct it. In my personal opinion, if something wants to get done, we need another 1960's civil rights movement. With the powerful leaders from within and even the sacrifice of the oncomming violence with it. __________________ "I hate quotations. Tell me about yourself." Ralph Waldo Emerson "I feel sorry for the failed lives of everyone who can sum up their experiences in one small quote." MINE! (but thats what I think Ralphie was trying to get at ^up there^

09-03-2005, 02:47 PM	#3 (permalink)
Gilda 32 flavors and then some Location: Out on a wire.	I think we've either passed or are very near the tipping point for gay rights in the US. It does, however, take a little hindsight to be able to identify when such changes occur, and it's much more difficult to recognize them as they happen. Religion shouldn't even be at issue here. Whether one's personal religious beliefs are in opposition to homosexuality should have no effect on the law. My religious beliefs don't hold GLBT people to be sinners. My parents', and those of many religious fundamentalists, do. Upon whose religious beliefs should we base our laws? Well, obviously, nobody's. This is precisely why the establishment clause in the constitution exists, to protect the religious beliefs and practices of the few. That said, this is not a religious debate. Gay marriage is not a religious debate. There are two forms of marriage in the US, spiritual marriage, which is conducted and recognized by a religious institution, and which exists entirely outside of the government's right to regulate or interfere, and legal marriage, which is that which is recognized by the state and which grants the married couple certain rights and privileges not granted those who are not legally married. The gay marriage debate is solely about legal marriage, and as such, religious views are entirely irrelevant. Religious institutions are free to recognize or refuse to recognize marriages as they see fit. Divorced Catholics can't get married in the church. Certain branches of some religions won't allow members to marry non-members. The legal protection for religious marriage already exists. As for other areas of gay rights, perhaps it would be helpful to look at places where gay rights are protected. California's fair employment and housing laws cover orientation and gender identity. Has this lead to a holocaust, a widespread degredation of Californians, a destruction of the moral values? Certainly not. It's led to GLBT not being unfairly denied housing, employment, or education solely on the basis of their sexuality. It's not special rights, it's the same rights as everyone else that we want. Certain segments of society may be slow in catching up, but the impetus for the change has to come from somewhere. The stereotypes and the use of "gay" as an epithet both bother me, but I think they will eventually, not soon, but eventually, fall away as people come to realize that we are just like anyone else, that we've been among you for a long, long time and being able to openly be ourselves doesn't harm anyone. Gilda __________________ I'm against ending blackness. I believe that everyone has a right to be black, it's a choice, and I support that. ~Steven Colbert

08-22-2005, 09:23 PM	#2 (permalink)
loganmule Junkie Location: midwest	Truman, you might want to take a look at a previous thread: http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=83108 It centered on the issue of gay/lesbian rights from the perspective of marriage, but also included relevant comments on the equal rights issue generally.