07-01-2005, 11:24 AM | #41 (permalink) | |
Republican slayer
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07-01-2005, 01:00 PM | #42 (permalink) | ||||||
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great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great- great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great- grandchildren's lives? Did you ever consider that maybe they don't WANT your meddlesomeness? If that's the standard we're going to use, hey, the Sun's expansion is eventually going to destroy the Earth. WHY AREN'T YOU FIXING THAT??? Quote:
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07-01-2005, 01:03 PM | #43 (permalink) |
lascivious
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Ustwo is corect. Gun control is yet another favorite American pastime of trying to alleviate the symptoms rather then preventing the disease.
There is less political risk in focusing on the short term and treating the symptom rather then the long term and fighting the cause. Thus our country has been burried in a quagmire of half-assed political decisions that always cost us more and solve absolutely nothing. |
07-01-2005, 01:08 PM | #44 (permalink) | |
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Ummm, WRONG. They were not gun buybacks, they were gun CONFISCATIONS. Are you advocating confiscation of guns in America? Have you seen what has happened in England and Wales afterwards? Did the raw numbers OR rates of gun crime decrease? No matter how you look at it, gun crime in the UK has skyrocketed since the ban, Scopes be damned. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews...l&siteid=50143 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1440764.stm http://www.amnesty.org.uk/news/press/14919.shtml this last one is fascinating, given that ALL handguns were confiscated by the Government in 1997, IIRC. |
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07-01-2005, 01:16 PM | #45 (permalink) | ||
Psycho
Location: io-where?
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the·o·ry - a working hypothesis that is considered probable based on experimental evidence or factual or conceptual analysis and is accepted as a basis for experimentation. faith - Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. - Merriam-Webster's dictionary |
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07-01-2005, 01:18 PM | #46 (permalink) | ||||
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07-01-2005, 01:58 PM | #47 (permalink) | ||||||
Bokonist
Location: Location, Location, Location...
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http://www.hubbertpeak.com/ Quote:
"Dont worry, be happy" Right? ...Right??
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"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way." -Kurt Vonnegut |
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07-01-2005, 02:39 PM | #48 (permalink) | ||||
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We have a right to have what you term "short-sighted views". We have a right to base our own governmental policies on what is best for US. If you don't like it? Well, sorry about that... |
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07-01-2005, 02:59 PM | #49 (permalink) | |
Psycho
Location: Sweden - Land of the sodomite damned
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If atheism is a religion, then not collecting stamps is a hobby. |
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07-01-2005, 04:02 PM | #50 (permalink) | |
Lennonite Priest
Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA
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One of these days soon, we may need help from one of these countries you so laugh at and they will in turn laugh back at you. May I need remind you that the poorer nations and the nations we aggitate towards hating us (with those "better and holier than thoy attitudes" so many these days seem to have in regard to foreign relations), are growing and are far younger and hungrier than us. We may have nukes but that maybe all we have someday and eventually the nukes won't scare them. If you think we are untouchable and that we are invincible that no country will ever take us down, ask Napolean, Rome, Stalin, Hitler at their height who would take them down. Wars are won by who is the hungriest and has the least to lose.
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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?" |
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07-01-2005, 04:58 PM | #51 (permalink) | |
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Other countries are able to tell the US to fuck off. Remember "Yankee go home"? So why don't we have the right to tell them to fuck off too? What's fair is fair, and if they can do it, we can do it too. If they don't want our help, that's fine. They can remember that when the next Stalin or Hitler comes along. We'll see how much they enjoy the Communist Chinese system, and how thankful their families are when the government sends them the bill for the bullet. |
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07-01-2005, 04:58 PM | #52 (permalink) | |
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07-01-2005, 05:09 PM | #53 (permalink) | |
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And, as I said before, I am not adocating confiscation of guns in America. You guys can shoot the fuck out of each other and anything that moves for all I care. What I AM advocating is that you stop trying to recommend the reintroduction of privately held firearms into the UK, Ireland and Australia (the three countries mentioned by myself) against the wishes of the vast majority of people. Mr Mephisto |
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07-01-2005, 05:14 PM | #54 (permalink) | |
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07-01-2005, 06:47 PM | #55 (permalink) | |||
Minion of the scaléd ones
Location: Northeast Jesusland
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And a fine job our government is doing taking care of us too. Global warming is a fine thing for now. So is gasoline nearly triple the price it was three years ago. Creating all those new terrorists has provided many an opportunity for a military career for promising young men and women. And, of course, paying quadruple the going global rates for prescription drugs and sugar makes me feel quite well cared for. Quote:
Actually, the fact that peak oil continues to recede does not mean that we will not catch up at some point. I will grant easily that we have more than enough oil left to continue using it for a very long time, but it will get progressivly more expensive, and, let's face it, since we stay out of the domestic affairs of other sovreign nations, we'll never have any problems with it being under the land of people who would be very happy to see our economy in shambles. Quote:
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Light a man a fire, and he will be warm while it burns. Set a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life. |
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07-01-2005, 08:10 PM | #56 (permalink) | |
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07-01-2005, 09:21 PM | #57 (permalink) | |||
Republican slayer
Location: WA
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It's obvious that no one is going to change your mind that the "war" policy is the best way to go. We'll just see where we end up becasue of it. |
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07-02-2005, 02:15 AM | #58 (permalink) | |
Psycho
Location: Sweden - Land of the sodomite damned
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If atheism is a religion, then not collecting stamps is a hobby. |
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07-02-2005, 03:42 AM | #59 (permalink) | |
Bokonist
Location: Location, Location, Location...
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Just like every other country in the world. Is anyone helping the people of Zimbabwe? What about Darfur? The US cannot and should not play "World Police" that is for an organisation like the UN. (Which is in dire need of reform to put some teeth back in its enforcement capabilities.)
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"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way." -Kurt Vonnegut |
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07-02-2005, 04:13 AM | #60 (permalink) | |
Minion of the scaléd ones
Location: Northeast Jesusland
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So which planet are we on, my friend? Incidentally, that was a nifty argument, but it works both ways.
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Light a man a fire, and he will be warm while it burns. Set a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life. |
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07-02-2005, 04:25 AM | #61 (permalink) | |||
Lennonite Priest
Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA
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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?" |
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07-02-2005, 04:31 AM | #62 (permalink) |
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Let's step back a second and look at Moosenose's arguments, because they are a classic example of how the Republicans are whipping the hell out of the Democrats.
He says (paraphrasing all of these) "Other countries don't have the right to interfere with our domestic policy" So we say "But we're interfereing with the domestic policy of all these countries" And then he says "You can't have it both ways. Either we can be the world police or we can't." Now if you look at that example Moosenose is neatly shifting the topic of the argument while appearing to keep arguing the same thing. At first the argument was about whether or not OTHER countries have the right to be annoyed with the US for crapping out the environment. He didn't think so which is fine. But when we pointed out that we seem to think we have the right to tell those other countries how to run THEIR governments, he rebutted with something that had nothing whatsoever to do with the original topic. Complete shift in argument. Now you might be asking why this is important, and it's here that I want to make it clear I'm not singling out Moosenose. See, this is a tactic used by just about every member of Bush's cabinet during press conferences, and it's one widely used by republicans in general, and frankly it's a brilliant one. You can continue to make it sound like you're arguing one point when in fact you're arguing something completely different. This makes it easy to dupe the public into thinking you think one way when in fact you think the opposite. If you came right out and said it (in this example, "I don't think anyone can tell us what to do, but we can certainly tell everyone else what to do because we're big and strong") people would object. But if you couch it in the right terms, people won't get it, and they'll support you. It's this kind of debate that is why the Republican political machine is so successful: They're willing to do and say anything necessary to get elected, whether it's deceitful or not. And it's this kind of debate that the public, and especially the democrats, need to be aware of if they want to have a prayer of ending the current dangerous political situaiton. |
07-02-2005, 04:43 AM | #63 (permalink) | |
Lennonite Priest
Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA
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The question is how do we keep the people focussed while the other side tends to lead them down the rosier road, saying what the people want to hear but doing the opposite?
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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?" |
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07-02-2005, 09:31 AM | #64 (permalink) | |
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You're actually babbling now... Mr Mephisto |
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07-02-2005, 09:02 PM | #65 (permalink) | ||
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Their weak points are the Madrassas or however you spell it. They are virtually suicide bomber incubators. Shut them down by whatever means are necessary, and a lot of the problem goes away. Quote:
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07-02-2005, 09:07 PM | #66 (permalink) | |
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Anybody who would want to put ANY military power into the hands of the UN is either ignorant of very recent history or just a plain old fool. "Srebrenica" ring a bell? Anyone? Anyone? |
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07-02-2005, 09:18 PM | #67 (permalink) | |||
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07-02-2005, 09:30 PM | #68 (permalink) | |||||
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Last edited by moosenose; 07-02-2005 at 09:32 PM.. |
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07-02-2005, 09:36 PM | #69 (permalink) | |
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Mods: no disrespect is intended, I'm just trying to inject some humor into the situation. If I was trying to be disrespectful, I'd have given specific examples, all drawn from a single party, while ignoring examples from other parties. |
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07-02-2005, 09:52 PM | #70 (permalink) | |||
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If the U.N. did not do it, it probably would not get done. It seems that as the integrity of the reputation of the U.S. deteriorates in the eyes of much of the rest of the world, the UN, in comparison, seems more welcome and influential. Quote:
Their evolving friendship would not be possible if they could not put aside the disagreements, grievances, and rivalry that once separated them: Quote:
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07-02-2005, 10:04 PM | #71 (permalink) | |
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BTW, has the UN issued a resolution telling member states to invade Zimbabwe to stop what is happening there yet? Oh, and BTW....those UN figures you cite, with fatalities listed? Those are UN fatalities, NOT ALL fatalities, which often were several orders of magnitude higher. "yeah, we only lost X people" sounds a lot better than "yeah, we only lost X people, but 800,000 of the people we were there to protect got massacred, but hey, did we mention we only lost X people???" Last edited by moosenose; 07-02-2005 at 10:23 PM.. |
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07-02-2005, 11:35 PM | #72 (permalink) | |
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Rome was destroyed because the military and gov't weren't up to the task of controlling the vast area it claimed at the end of the empire. In essence, it collapsed under it's own weight. In Afghanistan, Korea, and Vietnam the "hungrier" side had support from outside, giving more weight behind their hunger. Also, the US kept N. Korean dictators from taking over S. Korea. And the same could have been done in Vietnam, had the military been allowed to use its full force. So, no your examples don't support your claim. Last edited by alansmithee; 07-02-2005 at 11:57 PM.. |
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07-02-2005, 11:51 PM | #73 (permalink) | |
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2. And I don't see why many people wouldn't buy "I don't think anyone can tell us what to do, but we can certainly tell everyone else what to do because we're big and strong". It's true. It's how things work. You just have to hope that the people who are "big and strong" aren't also totally looking out for their own self interest. And that's another thing that separates liberals/dems from conservatives/republicans: liberals are all to ready to condemn America as a source of evil in the world, whereas the others think that America is generally a good place. And this is another reason most people don't buy the liberal line-they don't believe that the place that allowed them the freedoms they have, and the relative prosperity they have is this great evil empire bent on destroying the world. For instance, look at many of the threads on this board, or posts in this thread even. If America were actually so anti-freedom, would these exist? Many places in the world currently have limited internet access in their countries, so it's entirely possible to do. Yet many liberals here would have you believe that we are living in a world line 1984, with Big Brother replaced with Karl Rove (at least now. Before people recognised that name, Cheney was the "puppetmaster". I wonder who the next "puppetmaster" will be in '08). The very fact that the OP feels comfortable with sending letters to politicians complaining about so-called lack of freedoms should be a clue that things aren't half as bad as what liberals want people to think. |
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07-03-2005, 04:01 AM | #74 (permalink) | ||
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Location: io-where?
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Moose, you aren't going to get very far disagreeing with everybody while at the same time jumping to radical conclusions of how the world should be run. This ain't the United States of Moosenoose.
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the·o·ry - a working hypothesis that is considered probable based on experimental evidence or factual or conceptual analysis and is accepted as a basis for experimentation. faith - Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. - Merriam-Webster's dictionary Last edited by Fourtyrulz; 07-03-2005 at 04:10 AM.. |
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07-03-2005, 02:53 PM | #75 (permalink) | |
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07-03-2005, 03:30 PM | #76 (permalink) | |
lascivious
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Leading up to the current conflict both the RAF and the US Airforce stepped up it's bombing campaign in an attempt to tease Saddam into war. |
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07-03-2005, 03:38 PM | #77 (permalink) | |
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By "suspecious targets", you're referring to AAA guns and missile launchers that shot at them first, right? How DARE we bomb people who shot at us first! |
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07-03-2005, 04:24 PM | #78 (permalink) | |||
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07-03-2005, 05:01 PM | #79 (permalink) | |
lascivious
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And indeed we were destroying AAA sites all this time. AAA sites that were reportedly targeting our planes. However we were in Iraqi air space. |
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07-03-2005, 05:11 PM | #80 (permalink) | |
Pissing in the cornflakes
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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps. |
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