Woman is kept alive to save unborn baby - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

StanT · 06-17-2005, 07:35 AM

Quote:

A 26-year-old pregnant woman with cancer whose brain function ceased last month is being kept alive with a respirator in hopes she can have a very premature baby who has a chance to survive.

Susan Torres, a researcher at the National Institutes of Health (NIH), lost consciousness May 7 when an undiagnosed brain tumor caused a stroke while she dined at home. Her husband, Jason Torres, says doctors told him Susan's brain functions have stopped.

Torres, also 26, says he decided to keep Susan on life support when doctors at Virginia Hospital Center here offered him the chance to disconnect the machines after they determined that she would not recover. He says he believes this is what his wife would have wanted.

A hospital spokesperson did not return calls and e-mails to discuss the case.

Against long odds, the baby Susan was carrying when she was stricken appears to be thriving after nearly 21 weeks of gestation, Torres says. If she can stay alive another month, and the cancer stays away from her uterus, the baby could be delivered and have a chance of surviving, he says. The couple has a 2-year-old son, Peter.

“I hate seeing her on those darned machines,” Torres says, “and I hate using her as a husk, a carrying case, because she herself is worth so much more. But Susan really wanted this baby. And she's a very — how should I put this? — a willful lady. That's probably why she's made it this far.”

Since 1977, at least nine comatose women have given birth in the USA, according to research by the University of Connecticut's medical center. Women with aggressive melanoma, the skin cancer that spread to Susan's brain, have borne children in reported cases in the USA, the United Kingdom and Canada, though not all survived.

Susan's doctors tell Torres they know of no cases in which a brain-dead mother with melanoma has delivered a child, he says.

Torres has quit his job as a commercial printing salesman and has moved into Susan's hospital room. He speaks to his wife, making small talk about the family and letting her know what's on his schedule for the day. For Torres, the routine is something solid to grasp in a life he says “was blown to pieces” nearly six weeks ago and continues to be rocked by aftershocks.

Susan, for instance, has had pneumonia recently and is fighting a persistent fever. Torres says the couple's son is staying with grandparents but continues to ask, “Where's Mommy?” Saying “in the hospital” is wearing out as an answer, Torres says. And Torres' relationship with God, whom he has loved since childhood, is showing signs of strain. “Some days,” says Torres, an active Catholic, “I am pretty damned angry with him.”

Torres and Susan, classmates at the University of Dallas, a Catholic liberal arts college, met during their sophomore year in Rome, while on the college's semester abroad program. Torres, large and blocky, says he was looking for a study partner who would help him finish his lessons quickly, so he could “hit the bars” with his rugby playing pals.

Susan, a serious student with a competitive streak of her own, fit the bill. The couple fell for each other quickly, firming up the bond through board games such as Monopoly and Risk.

“She'd dance around the room when she beat me” — and glower if Torres won, he says. It reminded Torres, the third of seven children, of the dynamics of his large family in Manassas, Va. Susan's good looks — blonde and willowy at about 5-foot-10 and 125 pounds — didn't hurt either.

Susan, from a vaguely Protestant background, became a Roman Catholic during their senior year. Hours after she was baptized, he asked her to marry him. “I figured my chances were better if I got her when she was in the mood for saying yes,” he says.

The couple married a year out of college, in May 2002, and welcomed son Peter 13 months later.

Susan, a biology major, liked her job working on malaria vaccines at NIH, Torres says. But she liked being a mother even more and was thrilled to become pregnant again at the beginning of 2005.

Susan had first developed melanoma, the most serious form of skin cancer, as a teenager in Houston, but had been cancer-free for nearly nine years.

So when Susan began to have headaches and nausea early last month, Torres says, there was no reason to suspect it was anything more than the miseries of early pregnancy. On May 6, the couple made an emergency room visit, where Susan was rehydrated, fed some bland crackers and sent home to rest.

The next night, while he was feeding Susan, “she just stopped,” Torres says. Using techniques he had learned as a lifeguard, Torres restarted his wife's breathing. Emergency medical technicians arrived in minutes. Four hours later, a still-dazed Torres was standing outside an operating room and hearing from a neurosurgeon that cancer had invaded Susan's brain.

A day after, when it was clear Susan had survived surgery, Torres faced an agonizing choice: keeping his wife on life support, with a slim chance of producing a live though perhaps disabled baby, or allowing her to die.

Unspoken, but hovering like a cloud: Picking the first option would be hugely costly. He'd be ground down by unimaginable debt. The couple has health insurance but expects it will cover only a fraction of the cost, currently running at least $7,500 a day, he says.

Torres wavered.

On a high school religion test, he once tackled a similar ethical problem — can you harm an unborn child in order to save its mother? But that was hypothetical. The exercise didn't offer much help here.

He and Susan had never talked about what to do in such circumstances. But Torres remembered that when Susan was pregnant with Peter, the couple had been offered tests to determine whether the child had Down syndrome or other genetic disorders. Susan, Torres recalls, was offended by the implication that if the child was compromised, she should end her pregnancy. She turned down the test.

That memory, and a nurse's advice to “think of what Susan would want,” clarified matters for Torres, he says.

“There's not a glimmer of doubt in my mind that this is what she would have wanted,” he says. “Any chance at all to save the baby, and Susan would have said, ‘Let's go for it.' ”

The road since then has been full of bumps. Susan contracted pneumonia, fought it off, then developed a fever that spiked at 104 degrees. When hospital attendants attempted to move her bed into a lab for tests, Susan's blood pressure fluctuated wildly. Her cancer, so far, seems to have stayed out of her uterus. But doctors give him no guarantees that will continue.

It's been a tough month in other parts of Torres' world. Two of his four grandparents have fallen ill. An uncle, who has cerebral palsy, is in declining health. Peter, who turned 2 on June 3, is beginning to connect his mother's long absence with “the idea that something is wrong,” Torres says.

It's difficult to watch Peter gravitate toward other women Susan's age who cross his path, Torres says. It's at best a mixed blessing to consider that he probably won't remember any of this, including his mother's features and the sound of her voice and the birthday dinner she had to miss.

“How many rocks are they going to throw in your cart before you can't pull it anymore” he says he asks himself. “The answer, apparently, is a lot.”

Torres says he doesn't understand why his family has been singled out for suffering.

His mother, Karen — “she's way, way Catholic” — has told him “when the innocent suffer, great good is let loose in the world, and souls who wouldn't otherwise have gotten in reach heaven.” That's great, Torres says, but these days, his faith requires something more tangible. “I'm like, ‘OK, but can I get a list of those souls, in writing?' ”

Right now, the target is mid-July, when Susan will be about 25 weeks pregnant — 15 weeks short of a full pregnancy. That's the gestation age, doctors tell Torres, where a baby can survive though with a heightened risk of brain damage and vision and developmental problems.

Torres' goal is for Susan and the baby to reach the 30-week mark, when such risks are greatly diminished.

Torres knows that the baby's delivery date, when and if it comes, will be bittersweet. After the baby is born, Susan's body will be anointed in the Catholic tradition, and she'll be allowed to die.

“That could be a little rough,” he says.

“But I'm not focused there yet. The question I keep asking myself is: When this is over, do I get to take a baby home?”

I intentionally put this in the Politics Forum to compare it with the Sciavo case. Is this a case we can agree about? Is keeping her alive on the chance that she can give birth acceptable?

StanT · 06-17-2005, 07:37 AM

Like the Schiavo case, I would support her husbands decision either way. I don't doubt that this woman would want the child to be born and would accept the consequences to herself.

pan6467 · 06-17-2005, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StanT

Like the Schiavo case, I would support her husbands decision either way. I don't doubt that this woman would want the child to be born and would accept the consequences to herself.

I concur. I hope the husband becomes a father and that a great happiness is found for him inside this tragedy.

Such tragedy to befall that family, it sounds like this baby would be a blessing and bring much happiness.

stevo · 06-17-2005, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pan6467

I concur. I hope the husband becomes a father and that a great happiness is found for him inside this tragedy.

Such tragedy to befall that family, it sounds like this baby would be a blessing and bring much happiness.

well put. I think this is one we can all agree on.

j8ear · 06-17-2005, 12:48 PM

I agree with stevo agreeing with Pan.

How is this in anyway related or similar to the Shiavo case? What's the controversy?

-bear

Paq · 06-17-2005, 01:01 PM

yea, i'm not seeing the relationship with schiavo simply bc the gov't is not involved. Either way, i respect the husband's wishes in this matter and i really hope he has a new child in a few months.

that's so heartbreaking

kutulu · 06-17-2005, 01:35 PM

Man that is a terrible story. Life really sucks sometimes. I don't see how this relates at all to Schiavo. There is no struggle within the family and the govt is not involved. Hopefully he isn't crushed a second time by his baby dying also.

Lebell · 06-17-2005, 01:44 PM

I would be surprised if anyone thought there was something controversial here, but I've been surprised before.

I am in the majority opinion.

StanT · 06-17-2005, 01:45 PM

No living will, no clearly expressed wishes, she's being kept alive as an incubator until the baby is born. After that, her life will be terminated.

The cases seem somewhat similar to me.

kutulu · 06-17-2005, 01:54 PM

If someone said they had a problem with this I'd be seriously wondering if they are just trying to start a flamewar.

maleficent · 06-17-2005, 01:57 PM

the only difference is there's not family fighting over what happens to her...

It honestly suprises me that some of themore militant women's groups haven't stepped in all up in arms that she's being kept alive as a baby machine only.. isn't her life and dignity worth something?

kutulu · 06-17-2005, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maleficent

the only difference is there's not family fighting over what happens to her...

It honestly suprises me that some of themore militant women's groups haven't stepped in all up in arms that she's being kept alive as a baby machine only.. isn't her life and dignity worth something?

I guess that might be the only difference but it is a big one.

As to the women's groups, they have no place to get involved unless someone within the family were to ask for it. They don't know anything about her on their own. If they just walk in and start making noise uninvited they'll (rightly) get a heafty dose of STFU.

ophelia783 · 06-17-2005, 08:16 PM

This is definitly one where life support IS the best option.

It's much different than having a woman who can never recover and has been kept alive for over a decade; I can't imagine that she would've wanted to live that way. Terri Schiavo collapsed at 26, and died at 41, and her parents have been (IMHO) deluding themselves in thinking that with time and therapy, she'd be fine.

Susan Torres was a mother first and foremost, and everyone is acknowledging her iminent death; she is being kept alive for the sole purpose of enabling her child a chance at life; what mother wouldn't do that?

Xell101 · 06-17-2005, 08:30 PM

The bun in the oven is the raisen for keeping her alive. Once the baby is out of the equation it is reduced to a previously solved porblem, Schiavo.

Elphaba · 06-17-2005, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maleficent

the only difference is there's not family fighting over what happens to her...

It honestly suprises me that some of themore militant women's groups haven't stepped in all up in arms that she's being kept alive as a baby machine only.. isn't her life and dignity worth something?

I am not aware of any militant women's group. Who would this be?

powerclown · 06-19-2005, 02:12 PM

...double...

martinguerre · 06-19-2005, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elphaba

I am not aware of any militant women's group. Who would this be?

Ditto to that, Elphaba. Speculating about an extreme reaction doesn't seem very productive to me. If someone wants to make a case for why she should be treated differently, let them do so...we don't need to do that for them.

pan6467 · 06-19-2005, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maleficent

the only difference is there's not family fighting over what happens to her...

It honestly suprises me that some of themore militant women's groups haven't stepped in all up in arms that she's being kept alive as a baby machine only.. isn't her life and dignity worth something?

I could see some women's militant group coming forward saying this. I think they would lose any political clout, but I honestly can see it happening....

pan6467 · 06-19-2005, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xell101

The bun in the oven is the raisen for keeping her alive. Once the baby is out of the equation it is reduced to a previously solved porblem, Schiavo.

I can also see this happening, someone coming forth after the baby is born demanding she be kept alive.

Elphaba · 06-20-2005, 02:34 PM

Actually, anyone wishing to interfere would need to demonstrate that they have a legal standing in the issue, as did Schiavo's parents. That is why Jeb, George, and congress got nowhere.

AVoiceOfReason · 06-20-2005, 06:32 PM

What made Schiavo so compelling to the media, and thus to the politicians, were the subplots--the parents against the husband, the revelation of Terri's desires years after the disability began, the husband having a new girlfriend, and the video of her watching that balloon.

None of those are present here.

kutulu · 06-21-2005, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVoiceOfReason

What made Schiavo so compelling to the media, and thus to the politicians, were the subplots--the parents against the husband, the revelation of Terri's desires years after the disability began, the husband having a new girlfriend, and the video of her watching that balloon.

None of those are present here.

They were interesting because they were all taken out of context to fit the agenda of the parents. It wasn't a revelation of Terri's desires years later, he just finally accepted that rehab wasn't going to make her any better. Girlfriend? Even the parents were urging him to start new relationships. Despite her being blind we knew even before the autopsy that her brain wasn't functioning and that half of it had turned to liquid. The right to lifers just refused to admit it.

AVoiceOfReason · 06-22-2005, 04:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kutulu

They were interesting because they were all taken out of context to fit the agenda of the parents. It wasn't a revelation of Terri's desires years later, he just finally accepted that rehab wasn't going to make her any better. Girlfriend? Even the parents were urging him to start new relationships. Despite her being blind we knew even before the autopsy that her brain wasn't functioning and that half of it had turned to liquid. The right to lifers just refused to admit it.

I don't dispute those points, but you missed mine--those factors were what made it interesting to the media. All of them, whether true, false or distorted, were easy talking points for the shows on MSNBC, CNN, FOX and others trying to fill airtime.

The woman being kept alive now to have the baby doesn't have the same elements for discussion (or any akin to it); it's a human interest story, not a conflict, and thus no reason for it to receive any more than an update now and then.

kutulu · 06-22-2005, 09:17 AM

Ok, I get what you were saying.

j8ear · 08-03-2005, 09:05 AM

Susan Torres, whose plight has attracted support from around the world, gave birth to a daughter Tuesday by Caesarean section. The delivery went smoothly and the baby "is doing well," her brother-in-law, Justin Torres, wrote in an e-mail to The Associated Press. Susan Anne Catherine Torres weighs 1 pound, 13 ounces and is 13 1/2 inches long, he said.

I'm rooting for the baby. Preemies have a very special place in my heart! I wonder what they will do with the mother now?

-bear

Elphaba · 08-03-2005, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j8ear

Susan Torres, whose plight has attracted support from around the world, gave birth to a daughter Tuesday by Caesarean section. The delivery went smoothly and the baby "is doing well," her brother-in-law, Justin Torres, wrote in an e-mail to The Associated Press. Susan Anne Catherine Torres weighs 1 pound, 13 ounces and is 13 1/2 inches long, he said.

I'm rooting for the baby. Preemies have a very special place in my heart! I wonder what they will do with the mother now?

-bear

Thanks for the update, Bear. Hopefully this little one will be a warrior princess, too.

StanT · 08-03-2005, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j8ear

I'm rooting for the baby. Preemies have a very special place in my heart! I wonder what they will do with the mother now?

-bear

The impression that I got watching the news conference, was that the family considered it none of anyone's business and that the hospital would respect their wishes. I suspect that will will see an obituary in a few days.

That's the correct decision in my mind. Tragedy does not need to be played out in the press.

StanT · 08-03-2005, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StanT

I suspect that will will see an obituary in a few days.

Or less.

Brain-Dead Woman Dies After Giving Birth

pan6467 · 08-03-2005, 11:49 AM

My condolences to the family and heartfelt wishes that the baby not only makes it but can live a special and happy life.

meembo · 08-04-2005, 05:10 PM

RIP

The baby must be a tremedous joy to the family

j8ear · 09-12-2005, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by meembo

RIP

The baby must be a tremedous joy to the family

Bitter sweet to be sure!

Today the baby died of heart failure. You never really think about how truly precarious every single day is with these preemies. Without a mother, and surrounded by lots of sadness and grief couldn't have helped matters all that much.

I really feel for the dad...first his wife then his baby. All within a few months span.

-bear

vautrain · 09-12-2005, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j8ear

Bitter sweet to be sure!

Today the baby died of heart failure.

That is sad. I wonder how much the mother's condition played into the baby's problems, aside from the preemie component. I'm just thinking... a "live" mother does more than just ingest nutritional fluid while she's pregnant, she is active, she talks (to the baby, and to others), experiences things, eats fresh food, etc.

I'm not saying it's not worth giving it a shot, I just wonder if/how the absence of those factors may have contributed to the baby's problems.

pig · 09-12-2005, 03:00 PM

I just saw this thread...first I'd like to say that I wish the family involved finds peace in the aftermath of this. Can't imagine...

To the political aspects thereof...I don't really see the Schiavo situation as pointed out above, but I'm somewhat curious that pro-lifers haven't pointed towards this as raising questions about the whole "when does life begin / what were they saving anyways / etc" issue. I feel similar arguments to Schiavo might be pertinent here...prior to her tumor / stroke she expressed the desire to give birth, and so the gestation period should be allowed to continue to reach birth.

fightnight · 09-13-2005, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lebell

I would be surprised if anyone thought there was something controversial here, but I've been surprised before.

I am in the majority opinion.

Agreed, there's really no right to life issue with the woman here, she's naturally dying and we're keeping her alive a bit longer to salvage another life. Seems to make sense to me!

06-17-2005, 12:48 PM	#5 (permalink)
j8ear Gentlemen Farmer Location: Middle of nowhere, Jersey	I agree with stevo agreeing with Pan. How is this in anyway related or similar to the Shiavo case? What's the controversy? -bear __________________ It's alot easier to ask for forgiveness then it is to ask for permission.

06-17-2005, 01:01 PM	#6 (permalink)
Paq Junkie Location: South Carolina	yea, i'm not seeing the relationship with schiavo simply bc the gov't is not involved. Either way, i respect the husband's wishes in this matter and i really hope he has a new child in a few months. that's so heartbreaking __________________ Live. Chris

06-17-2005, 01:44 PM	#8 (permalink)
Lebell Cracking the Whip Location: Sexymama's arms...	I would be surprised if anyone thought there was something controversial here, but I've been surprised before. I am in the majority opinion. __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate!

06-17-2005, 01:57 PM	#11 (permalink)
maleficent Junkie Moderator Emeritus Location: Chicago	the only difference is there's not family fighting over what happens to her... It honestly suprises me that some of themore militant women's groups haven't stepped in all up in arms that she's being kept alive as a baby machine only.. isn't her life and dignity worth something? __________________ Free your heart from hatred. Free your mind from worries. Live simply. Give more. Expect less.

06-17-2005, 08:16 PM	#13 (permalink)
ophelia783 Insane Location: West Virginia	This is definitly one where life support IS the best option. It's much different than having a woman who can never recover and has been kept alive for over a decade; I can't imagine that she would've wanted to live that way. Terri Schiavo collapsed at 26, and died at 41, and her parents have been (IMHO) deluding themselves in thinking that with time and therapy, she'd be fine. Susan Torres was a mother first and foremost, and everyone is acknowledging her iminent death; she is being kept alive for the sole purpose of enabling her child a chance at life; what mother wouldn't do that? __________________ ~~ He with a sharp tongue slits his own throat ~~

06-17-2005, 07:37 AM	#2 (permalink)
StanT © Location: Colorado	Like the Schiavo case, I would support her husbands decision either way. I don't doubt that this woman would want the child to be born and would accept the consequences to herself.

06-17-2005, 01:35 PM	#7 (permalink)
kutulu Junkie	Man that is a terrible story. Life really sucks sometimes. I don't see how this relates at all to Schiavo. There is no struggle within the family and the govt is not involved. Hopefully he isn't crushed a second time by his baby dying also.

06-17-2005, 01:45 PM	#9 (permalink)
StanT © Location: Colorado	No living will, no clearly expressed wishes, she's being kept alive as an incubator until the baby is born. After that, her life will be terminated. The cases seem somewhat similar to me.

06-17-2005, 01:54 PM	#10 (permalink)
kutulu Junkie	If someone said they had a problem with this I'd be seriously wondering if they are just trying to start a flamewar.

06-17-2005, 08:30 PM	#14 (permalink)
Xell101 Junkie	The bun in the oven is the raisen for keeping her alive. Once the baby is out of the equation it is reduced to a previously solved porblem, Schiavo.

06-19-2005, 02:12 PM	#16 (permalink)
powerclown Junkie Location: Detroit, MI	...double...

06-20-2005, 02:34 PM	#20 (permalink)
Elphaba Deja Moo Location: Olympic Peninsula, WA	Actually, anyone wishing to interfere would need to demonstrate that they have a legal standing in the issue, as did Schiavo's parents. That is why Jeb, George, and congress got nowhere.

06-20-2005, 06:32 PM	#21 (permalink)
AVoiceOfReason Psycho Location: Greenwood, Arkansas	What made Schiavo so compelling to the media, and thus to the politicians, were the subplots--the parents against the husband, the revelation of Terri's desires years after the disability began, the husband having a new girlfriend, and the video of her watching that balloon. None of those are present here. __________________ AVOR A Voice Of Reason, not necessarily the ONLY one.

06-22-2005, 09:17 AM	#24 (permalink)
kutulu Junkie	Ok, I get what you were saying.

08-03-2005, 09:05 AM	#25 (permalink)
j8ear Gentlemen Farmer Location: Middle of nowhere, Jersey	Baby Born today: Susan Torres, whose plight has attracted support from around the world, gave birth to a daughter Tuesday by Caesarean section. The delivery went smoothly and the baby "is doing well," her brother-in-law, Justin Torres, wrote in an e-mail to The Associated Press. Susan Anne Catherine Torres weighs 1 pound, 13 ounces and is 13 1/2 inches long, he said. I'm rooting for the baby. Preemies have a very special place in my heart! I wonder what they will do with the mother now? -bear __________________ It's alot easier to ask for forgiveness then it is to ask for permission.

08-03-2005, 11:49 AM	#29 (permalink)
pan6467 Lennonite Priest Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA	My condolences to the family and heartfelt wishes that the baby not only makes it but can live a special and happy life. __________________ I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

08-04-2005, 05:10 PM	#30 (permalink)
meembo Junkie Location: Connecticut	RIP The baby must be a tremedous joy to the family __________________ less I say, smarter I am

09-12-2005, 03:00 PM	#33 (permalink)
pig pigglet pigglet Location: Locash	I just saw this thread...first I'd like to say that I wish the family involved finds peace in the aftermath of this. Can't imagine... To the political aspects thereof...I don't really see the Schiavo situation as pointed out above, but I'm somewhat curious that pro-lifers haven't pointed towards this as raising questions about the whole "when does life begin / what were they saving anyways / etc" issue. I feel similar arguments to Schiavo might be pertinent here...prior to her tumor / stroke she expressed the desire to give birth, and so the gestation period should be allowed to continue to reach birth. __________________ You don't love me, you just love my piggy style