Bush is stupider - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Mephisto2 · 06-07-2005, 12:56 PM

Well, apparently not.

Quote:

Bush just as smart as Kerry, uni marks show
By Michael Kranish in Washington
June 8, 2005

John Kerry … "I always told my dad that D stood for distinction."

During last year's presidential campaign, John Kerry was the candidate often portrayed as intellectual and complex, while George Bush was the populist who mangled his sentences.

But newly released records show that Mr Bush and Senator Kerry had a virtually identical grade average at Yale University four decades ago.

In 1999 The New Yorker published a transcript indicating that Mr Bush had received a cumulative score of 77 for his first three years at Yale and a roughly similar average during his senior year.

Senator Kerry, who graduated two years before Mr Bush, received a cumulative 76 for his four years, according to a transcript that he sent to the US Navy when he applied for officer training school. He received four Ds, out of 10 courses, in his freshman year but improved his average in later years.

The grades transcript, which Senator Kerry had always declined to release, was included in his navy military record. Late last month he gave the navy permission to send the documents to the Globe.

Senator Kerry appeared to be responding to critics who suspected that there might be damaging information in the file about his activities in Vietnam.
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The military and medical records, however, appear identical to what the senator had already released. This marks the first time his grades have been publicly reported.

The transcript shows that his freshman-year average was 71. He scored a 61 in geology, a 63 and 68 in two history classes, and a 69 in political science. His top score was a 79, in another political science course. Another of his strongest efforts, a 77, came in French class.

Under Yale's grading system at the time, grades between 90 and 100 equalled an A, 80-89 a B, 70-79 a C, 60 to 69 a D, and anything below that was a failing grade.

In addition to Senator Kerry's four Ds in his freshman year, he received one D in his second year, but he did not fail any courses.

"I always told my dad that D stood for distinction," Senator Kerry said on Monday in a written response to questions, noting that he has previously acknowledged that he spent a lot of time learning to fly instead of focusing on his studies.

The senator did, however, receive a high honour at Yale despite his mediocre grades: he was chosen to deliver his senior class oration, a testament to his reputation as a public speaker. He delivered a speech questioning the wisdom of the Vietnam War, in which he would soon see combat.

Like Senator Kerry, Mr Bush reportedly experienced a difficult freshman year, then improved his grades.

The Boston Globe

REF:http://www.smh.com.au/news/World/Bus...123840079.html

So, just goes to show that Bush, inept as he is at spontaneous public speaking, is no dunce. I'm surprised, to be perfectly honest, as I always believed he was honestly a little dumberer than Kerry.

"D stood for distinction"

hehehe

Mr Mephisto

Coppertop · 06-07-2005, 01:26 PM

Grades are a reflection of intelligence? I think not.

pan6467 · 06-07-2005, 01:28 PM

Going by grade point averages and grades alone can be extremely misleading. I can maintain 4.0 and take the easiest classes possible (classes that basically just refresh what I learnt in high school) especially my first 2 years, while you take the hardest classes (classes totally new to you) and get a 2.0. So this truly means nothing to me as it doesn't say which classes either took.

Honestly, while I think Bush nor Kerry are geniuses, to EVEN be admitted to Yale, makes me believe they are not idiots either.

As for Bush, even if his dad did pull strings to get him into Yale, he had to have been pretty smart. Now the years following, with his admitted alcoholic tendencies, he probably destroyed a lot of brain cells. Plus, as we get older if we don't exercise our brains and keep learning it does turn to mush and our recall of what we have learnt is slower and becomes more vague.

Mephisto2 · 06-07-2005, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coppertop

Grades are a reflection of intelligence? I think not.

No, but they are certainly an indicator of ability and intelligence.

Nothing, on its own, is a pure reflection of intelligence.

Mr Mephisto

pan6467 · 06-07-2005, 01:30 PM

PS.... don't be surprised if people start accusing this as being a flame thread because of the title.... I know it's not but......

Mephisto2 · 06-07-2005, 01:41 PM

It's not a flame thread.

It was posted for three reasons

1) People have consistently accused Bush of being less intelligent than Kerry. However, he did better than Kerry at Yale.

2) People have accused me of being a "Bush-hater", which is untrue. If anything, I'm a Bush-disliker, but I'm also not adverse to posting stories that "restore balance to the Force"...

3) I thought it was funny

Seems like you can't win on the PB anymore.

Mr Mephisto

Elphaba · 06-07-2005, 01:42 PM

Heh, when I saw the title I looked like this...

pan6467 · 06-07-2005, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Mephisto

It's not a flame thread.

It was posted for three reasons

1) People have consistently accused Bush of being less intelligent than Kerry. However, he did better than Kerry at Yale.

2) People have accused me of being a "Bush-hater", which is untrue. If anything, I'm a Bush-disliker, but I'm also not adverse to posting stories that "restore balance to the Force"...

3) I thought it was funny

Seems like you can't win on the PB anymore.

Mr Mephisto

I understand exactly what you are saying and it's a good thread, I'm just saying the title may cause problems.....

raeanna74 · 06-07-2005, 01:59 PM

I found that my grades reflected more of my drive to accomplish the task/course than my intelligence or ability in a particular subject. So my question is - what DID they want to succeed at? - not the courses they were taking.

Ustwo · 06-07-2005, 02:02 PM

I thought about posting this earlier in the day, and decided not to since the usual suspects would have called it a troll post.

Oh the irony

I wonder whats in the Navy records, if anything. The thought before the election was he wouldn't release the records (despite saying he did and or would depending on the interview) because the records may have given some credence to the Swift Boat vets.

How funny it would be if he just didn't want us to see his report card.

Mephisto2 · 06-07-2005, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

I thought about posting this earlier in the day, and decided not to since the usual suspects would have called it a troll post.

Oh the irony

How is it ironic? I often post "pro-Bush" stories or (during the election) several "anti-Kerry" stories.

It's an interesting story.

Mr Mephisto

PS - I thought the general consensus was that the Swift Boat Vets were a bunch of political stooges? Just the same as the Democrat funded (or inspired) stooges who fabricated stories about Bush's war record and "draft dodging"...

Ustwo · 06-07-2005, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Mephisto

How is it ironic? I often post "pro-Bush" stories or (during the election) several "anti-Kerry" stories.

It's an interesting story.

Mr Mephisto

PS - I thought the general consensus was that the Swift Boat Vets were a bunch of political stooges? Just the same as the Democrat funded (or inspired) stooges who fabricated stories about Bush's war record and "draft dodging"...

Oh nothing you did was ironic

The Dems are very quick to blame the Swfit Boat vets for part of why Kerry lost. Fueling that was the fact that Kerry, despite claims otherwise, would not release his full record. As such it looked like he had something to hide. How much if any support Kerry lost due to the Swift Boat vets I have no clue, and while some may claim it was a major factor, some still think that 'moral issues' are why Kerry lost too so perception doesn't mean reality. I just think it would be quite funny if the reason the Swift Boat vets couldn't be silenced, which was Kerry not releasing his records, was not due to the Swift vet claims BUT because Kerry didn't want you to see his grades from Yale. At the time the 'general consensus' was that Kerry did better in school than Bush, but just because a majority of people believe something, it doesn't make it true.

Mephisto2 · 06-07-2005, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

I just think it would be quite funny if the reason the Swift Boat vets couldn't be silenced, which was Kerry not releasing his records, was not due to the Swift vet claims BUT because Kerry didn't want you to see his grades from Yale.

Yes. That would be funny.

Mr Mephisto

Lebell · 06-07-2005, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pan6467

PS.... don't be surprised if people start accusing this as being a flame thread because of the title.... I know it's not but......

I think all of us mods check the actual thread before making such a judgement, but yeah, it caught my eye right fast...

filtherton · 06-07-2005, 03:10 PM

Kerry didn't really seem all that smart to me. At least not smart enough to engage in any kind of winning political strategy, though that's probably more a matter of not being smart enough to surround himself with competent people.

ubertuber · 06-07-2005, 05:33 PM

I saw this on CNN today in a segment entitled "Mediocrity Loves Company". Lou Dobbs closed the story by saying, with a completely straight face, "Good work, gentlemen." My thoughts exactly.

Hardknock · 06-07-2005, 07:36 PM

This is supposed to what? Convince me that Bush is some sort of genius just because he was an average student just as Kerry was? So he finished that particular task in a certain class and got a passing grade. This does not mark a level of intelligence. The fact that Bush still mangles sentences, can't write a speech to save his life, and needs people to feed him snappy lines through transmitters on his back during debates suggests to me that whatever he "learned" at Yale sure didn’t stick.

Mephisto2 · 06-07-2005, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hardknock

This is supposed to what?

Make you laugh. And nothing more.

Mr Mephisto

pan6467 · 06-07-2005, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Mephisto

Make you laugh. And nothing more.

Mr Mephisto

I think it's a great thread and provides some levity..... thank you for starting it.

Bodyhammer86 · 06-07-2005, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hardknock

The fact that Bush still mangles sentences, can't write a speech to save his life, and needs people to feed him snappy lines through transmitters on his back during debates suggests to me that whatever he "learned" at Yale sure didn’t stick.

He never intended on going into a career where he would need public speaking, thus he never trained for it. Furthermore, most of the world's scientists are terrible public speakers, and yet they're some of the brightest minds of today. Public speaking ability is in no way a determinent of intelligence either.

Ustwo · 06-07-2005, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bodyhammer86

He never intended on going into a career where he would need public speaking, thus he never trained for it. Furthermore, most of the world's scientists are terrible public speakers, and yet they're some of the brightest minds of today. Public speaking ability is in no way a determinent of intelligence either.

Note these are just late night, its time for bed, apolitical observations.

I think there is a strange difference with Kerry and Bush.

Kerry is an excellent public speaker, he can get windy but when he wants to get to the point he can do so quite well. He comes across as intelligent, and seems like a nice enough guy.

Bush obviously is pretty horrible at it (for a public figure).

On the other hand I've read/heard/seen Kerry is pretty god awful at the 1-1 communication. He doesn't relate well to other people and comes across as a jerk.

Bush seems very personable and able to relate to people. Most that meet him in person seem impressed and like him.

Clinton really had both worlds, he could give an excellent speech AND make people feel like they were important.

This concluded my apolitical observations.

archer2371 · 06-07-2005, 09:28 PM

Indeed Ustwo, I've always been a fan of Clinton's political ability. Same politics or no, the man is a great study in that arena.

Anyways, to the issue at hand. IIRC, I was talking to my stockbroker a few months back who is a good friend of the Bushes, and knew George W before his Texan days. Apparently he was a smooth talker, and able to form well and thought out sentences that were very logical and sounded great. Problem is, he tried to run for Congress with sort of a Yale educated accent. He wasn't able to relate to his constituents. So he spent his time learning to talk and relate to the people he was going to be representing before he ran for Governor. So thus, we got the stammering, Bushism producing, lovable doofus that we all know and love (not to mention great material for SNL skits). Personally, I think it's a case of his brain going faster than his tongue, because I know that happens to me and I lose track, mispronounce words, stammer and stumble, when I know I have the perfect thing to say in my head. My Government teacher in high school, who was a Kerry supporter, stated that, "There's no way that you can get to the Oval Office, and be unintelligent, it's impossible."

Mantus · 06-08-2005, 06:58 AM

I often wonder if the stories told about Bush being smarter in those days are actually true. His record certainly dosn't hint at any genius.

The only unscripted performance I've ever seen of the man was in the documentary Traveling With George by Alexandra Pelosi. There one gets to see that there is thought and reason behind everything Bush says. He was quite clever and always had his guard up even in casual talk. Though his comunication skills were still moderate at best.

Lebell · 06-08-2005, 07:13 AM

Ditto on the Clinton observations.

He's the only politician of that caliber that I've met and while I have mixed feelings about him politically, the guy had absolutely amazing charisma (+20 after bonuses and racial mods...)

lurkette · 06-08-2005, 07:20 AM

Who ever said intelligence was all it took to be a good leader? If that were so, then the eggheaded, brilliant but socially-incompetent scientists I work with would be running the place, and they'd manage to get just as little accomplished as most university administrations.

I don't think "intelligence" per se has as much to do with good governance as having a vision and the ability to inspire people to share it. Bush definitely has that, and unfortunately the Democrats don't.

The thing that bothers me most about Bush, though, is not his lack of intelligence but his complete lack of curiosity about...well...anything. He has already made up his mind about the way the world works (or should work) based on his rather frightening ideological worldview, and no amount of evidence is going to budge him from his position. I think this is downright dangerous. Unfortunately, most people find this kind of simplicity appealing.

Marvelous Marv · 06-08-2005, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pan6467

Going by grade point averages and grades alone can be extremely misleading. I can maintain 4.0 and take the easiest classes possible (classes that basically just refresh what I learnt in high school) especially my first 2 years, while you take the hardest classes (classes totally new to you) and get a 2.0. So this truly means nothing to me as it doesn't say which classes either took.

?????

Here's what was said about Kerry:

Quote:

He scored a 61 in geology, a 63 and 68 in two history classes, and a 69 in political science.

Marvelous Marv · 06-08-2005, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bodyhammer86

He never intended on going into a career where he would need public speaking, thus he never trained for it. Furthermore, most of the world's scientists are terrible public speakers, and yet they're some of the brightest minds of today. Public speaking ability is in no way a determinent of intelligence either.

I've had college professors who wrote textbooks, and were known worldwide, who couldn't speak/teach worth a damn.

dy156 · 06-08-2005, 06:34 PM

I saw the thread started by halx regarding the troubles on the politics board, and posted there that I would be coming around here more often. Then last night I saw this topic, and who had started it, and thought Mr. Mephisto had gotten tired of it all and was "crapping all over the board." Then today, I heard this story, and the title of this thread made alot more sense. I'm glad I was wrong.

chickentribs · 06-09-2005, 01:14 AM

I must admit that this caught me off guard. I would love to know the story behind why Kerry was chosen to speak to the senior class at Yale when he was obviously not much of a serious student, but I guess Harvard did have Ali G at their graduation so...

Let's just all commit that for the next election, GOP or Lefty, no candidates that are still on academic probation, fair?

Mephisto2 · 06-09-2005, 05:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dy156

I saw the thread started by halx regarding the troubles on the politics board, and posted there that I would be coming around here more often. Then last night I saw this topic, and who had started it, and thought Mr. Mephisto had gotten tired of it all and was "crapping all over the board." Then today, I heard this story, and the title of this thread made alot more sense. I'm glad I was wrong.

SHOCK HORROR GASP

I never crap all over the board!

Do I?

Mr Mephisto

Elphaba · 06-09-2005, 12:45 PM

::sniffs:: Nope, I don't think so.

cheeterbo · 06-10-2005, 07:50 AM

certainly bush's lack of simply articulation adds to his appearance of stupidity. his relentless devotion to his agenda and refusal to admit any weakness leads to the numerous descriptions of blockheadedness. his pathetic devotion to furthering his religion pegs him as a zealot.

in comparison kerry has admitted mistakes, speaks well and leaves religion out of the mix.

by looking myopically at these three talking points, kerry is smarter than bush

smooth · 06-10-2005, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chickentribs

I must admit that this caught me off guard. I would love to know the story behind why Kerry was chosen to speak to the senior class at Yale when he was obviously not much of a serious student, but I guess Harvard did have Ali G at their graduation so...

Let's just all commit that for the next election, GOP or Lefty, no candidates that are still on academic probation, fair?

I don't agree with the assessment of the situation you are giving, nor the majority of posters in this thread.
What this indicates is that Kerry did poorly in his first year, then did well for the remainder of his term.

Whereas Bush did mediocre throughout his education career.

I don't see the two trajectories are similar.

For example, if I earn an F in my first class of Business management and an A in my second course of Business management, but my friend earns two C's, we will have the same average. However, if the course material became more difficult as the courses progresses over time (which they do, as one moves from intro material to advanced material) then one ought to surmise that my initial low marks were due to external factors, difficulty with the material or anything you want, but realizing that I overcame it and scored exceptionally well on the more difficult material. That indicates and ability to learn and improve, which to me are clear markers of intelligence. On the other hand, my friend, who consistently scored an average score, is just an average student or at least didn't demonstrate a willingness to overcome external factors that might explain his grades (such as partying a lot).

This would be even more clear if we compared whether one student had more difficult course work than another. In any case, we might do better to look at their mode or median scores rather than the mean.
Or indicate our own intelligence by ignoring "news" like this.

Mephisto2 · 06-10-2005, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smooth

I don't agree with the assessment of the situation you are giving, nor the majority of posters in this thread.

Well it was meant as a bit of light-hearted flummery. I think some people took it a bit too seriously.

Mr Mephisto

Ustwo · 06-10-2005, 07:48 PM

I can't really believe people are 'debating' this thread.

They were both craptastic students, Kerry, unlike Bush, just tried to hide it from us.

Ironicly it seems even with THIS he didn't release all of his military records so again, it seems he is hiding something, but going into that is pointless as he lost the election.

06-07-2005, 01:28 PM	#3 (permalink)
pan6467 Lennonite Priest Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA	Going by grade point averages and grades alone can be extremely misleading. I can maintain 4.0 and take the easiest classes possible (classes that basically just refresh what I learnt in high school) especially my first 2 years, while you take the hardest classes (classes totally new to you) and get a 2.0. So this truly means nothing to me as it doesn't say which classes either took. Honestly, while I think Bush nor Kerry are geniuses, to EVEN be admitted to Yale, makes me believe they are not idiots either. As for Bush, even if his dad did pull strings to get him into Yale, he had to have been pretty smart. Now the years following, with his admitted alcoholic tendencies, he probably destroyed a lot of brain cells. Plus, as we get older if we don't exercise our brains and keep learning it does turn to mush and our recall of what we have learnt is slower and becomes more vague. __________________ I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

06-07-2005, 01:30 PM	#5 (permalink)
pan6467 Lennonite Priest Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA	PS.... don't be surprised if people start accusing this as being a flame thread because of the title.... I know it's not but...... __________________ I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

06-07-2005, 01:59 PM	#9 (permalink)
raeanna74 I'm not a blonde! I'm knot! I'm knot! I'm knot! Location: Upper Michigan	I found that my grades reflected more of my drive to accomplish the task/course than my intelligence or ability in a particular subject. So my question is - what DID they want to succeed at? - not the courses they were taking. __________________ "Always learn the rules so that you can break them properly." Dalai Lama My Karma just ran over your Dogma.

06-07-2005, 02:02 PM	#10 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	I thought about posting this earlier in the day, and decided not to since the usual suspects would have called it a troll post. Oh the irony I wonder whats in the Navy records, if anything. The thought before the election was he wouldn't release the records (despite saying he did and or would depending on the interview) because the records may have given some credence to the Swift Boat vets. How funny it would be if he just didn't want us to see his report card. __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

06-07-2005, 05:33 PM	#16 (permalink)
ubertuber spudly Location: Ellay	I saw this on CNN today in a segment entitled "Mediocrity Loves Company". Lou Dobbs closed the story by saying, with a completely straight face, "Good work, gentlemen." My thoughts exactly. __________________ Cogito ergo spud -- I think, therefore I yam

06-07-2005, 01:26 PM	#2 (permalink)
Coppertop Getting Medieval on your ass Location: 13th century Europe	Grades are a reflection of intelligence? I think not.

06-07-2005, 01:41 PM	#6 (permalink)
Mephisto2 Junkie	It's not a flame thread. It was posted for three reasons 1) People have consistently accused Bush of being less intelligent than Kerry. However, he did better than Kerry at Yale. 2) People have accused me of being a "Bush-hater", which is untrue. If anything, I'm a Bush-disliker, but I'm also not adverse to posting stories that "restore balance to the Force"... 3) I thought it was funny Seems like you can't win on the PB anymore. Mr Mephisto

06-07-2005, 01:42 PM	#7 (permalink)
Elphaba Deja Moo Location: Olympic Peninsula, WA	Heh, when I saw the title I looked like this...

06-07-2005, 03:10 PM	#15 (permalink)
filtherton Junkie Location: In the land of ice and snow.	Kerry didn't really seem all that smart to me. At least not smart enough to engage in any kind of winning political strategy, though that's probably more a matter of not being smart enough to surround himself with competent people.

06-07-2005, 07:36 PM	#17 (permalink)
Hardknock Republican slayer Location: WA	This is supposed to what? Convince me that Bush is some sort of genius just because he was an average student just as Kerry was? So he finished that particular task in a certain class and got a passing grade. This does not mark a level of intelligence. The fact that Bush still mangles sentences, can't write a speech to save his life, and needs people to feed him snappy lines through transmitters on his back during debates suggests to me that whatever he "learned" at Yale sure didn’t stick.

06-07-2005, 09:28 PM	#22 (permalink)
archer2371 Sarge of Blood Gulch Red Outpost Number One Location: On the front lines against our very enemy	Indeed Ustwo, I've always been a fan of Clinton's political ability. Same politics or no, the man is a great study in that arena. Anyways, to the issue at hand. IIRC, I was talking to my stockbroker a few months back who is a good friend of the Bushes, and knew George W before his Texan days. Apparently he was a smooth talker, and able to form well and thought out sentences that were very logical and sounded great. Problem is, he tried to run for Congress with sort of a Yale educated accent. He wasn't able to relate to his constituents. So he spent his time learning to talk and relate to the people he was going to be representing before he ran for Governor. So thus, we got the stammering, Bushism producing, lovable doofus that we all know and love (not to mention great material for SNL skits). Personally, I think it's a case of his brain going faster than his tongue, because I know that happens to me and I lose track, mispronounce words, stammer and stumble, when I know I have the perfect thing to say in my head. My Government teacher in high school, who was a Kerry supporter, stated that, "There's no way that you can get to the Oval Office, and be unintelligent, it's impossible." __________________ "This ain't no Ice Cream Social!" "Hey Grif, Chupathingy...how bout that? I like it...got a ring to it." "I have no earthly idea what it is I just saw, or what this place is, or where in the hell O'Malley is! My only choice is to blame Grif for coming up with such a flawed plan. Stupid, stupid Grif."

06-08-2005, 06:58 AM	#23 (permalink)
Mantus lascivious	I often wonder if the stories told about Bush being smarter in those days are actually true. His record certainly dosn't hint at any genius. The only unscripted performance I've ever seen of the man was in the documentary Traveling With George by Alexandra Pelosi. There one gets to see that there is thought and reason behind everything Bush says. He was quite clever and always had his guard up even in casual talk. Though his comunication skills were still moderate at best.

06-08-2005, 07:13 AM	#24 (permalink)
Lebell Cracking the Whip Location: Sexymama's arms...	Ditto on the Clinton observations. He's the only politician of that caliber that I've met and while I have mixed feelings about him politically, the guy had absolutely amazing charisma (+20 after bonuses and racial mods...) __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate!

06-08-2005, 07:20 AM	#25 (permalink)
lurkette My future is coming on Moderator Emeritus Location: east of the sun and west of the moon	Who ever said intelligence was all it took to be a good leader? If that were so, then the eggheaded, brilliant but socially-incompetent scientists I work with would be running the place, and they'd manage to get just as little accomplished as most university administrations. I don't think "intelligence" per se has as much to do with good governance as having a vision and the ability to inspire people to share it. Bush definitely has that, and unfortunately the Democrats don't. The thing that bothers me most about Bush, though, is not his lack of intelligence but his complete lack of curiosity about...well...anything. He has already made up his mind about the way the world works (or should work) based on his rather frightening ideological worldview, and no amount of evidence is going to budge him from his position. I think this is downright dangerous. Unfortunately, most people find this kind of simplicity appealing. __________________ "If ten million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing." - Anatole France

06-08-2005, 06:34 PM	#28 (permalink)
dy156 cookie Location: in the backwoods	I saw the thread started by halx regarding the troubles on the politics board, and posted there that I would be coming around here more often. Then last night I saw this topic, and who had started it, and thought Mr. Mephisto had gotten tired of it all and was "crapping all over the board." Then today, I heard this story, and the title of this thread made alot more sense. I'm glad I was wrong.

06-09-2005, 01:14 AM	#29 (permalink)
chickentribs Addict Location: Mansion by day/Secret Lair by night	I must admit that this caught me off guard. I would love to know the story behind why Kerry was chosen to speak to the senior class at Yale when he was obviously not much of a serious student, but I guess Harvard did have Ali G at their graduation so... Let's just all commit that for the next election, GOP or Lefty, no candidates that are still on academic probation, fair? __________________ Oft expectation fails... and most oft there Where most it promises - Shakespeare, W.

06-09-2005, 12:45 PM	#31 (permalink)
Elphaba Deja Moo Location: Olympic Peninsula, WA	::sniffs:: Nope, I don't think so.

06-10-2005, 07:50 AM	#32 (permalink)
cheeterbo Crazy Location: newyork	certainly bush's lack of simply articulation adds to his appearance of stupidity. his relentless devotion to his agenda and refusal to admit any weakness leads to the numerous descriptions of blockheadedness. his pathetic devotion to furthering his religion pegs him as a zealot. in comparison kerry has admitted mistakes, speaks well and leaves religion out of the mix. by looking myopically at these three talking points, kerry is smarter than bush

06-10-2005, 07:48 PM	#35 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	I can't really believe people are 'debating' this thread. They were both craptastic students, Kerry, unlike Bush, just tried to hide it from us. Ironicly it seems even with THIS he didn't release all of his military records so again, it seems he is hiding something, but going into that is pointless as he lost the election. __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.