tspikes51

My thoughts exactly. Untie when she is responsible enough.

__________________
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-Maddox

lindseylatch

It's only ridiculous for you, because you don't support abortions. I see nothing wrong with aborting this fetus. The problem here is not facts, but our starting points.

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uncle_el

1. you lack the knowledge of anatomy to understand the impossibility of such a feat.
2. it's illegal to tie a woman's tubes directly after delivery (whether vaginal or cesarean, it must be done as a separate procedure 24 hours later)
3. it's unethical to tie a woman's tubes directly after delivery (whether vaginal or cesarean)

both the illegality and unethical nature of doing such a thing would open the doctor up to a huge malpractice lawsuit... which would cost the state even more money...

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An individual who breaks a law that conscience tells him is unjust, and who willingly accepts the penalty of inprisonment in order to arouse the conscience of the community over its injustice, is in reality expressing the highest respect for the law. - Martin Luther King, Jr.

The media's the most powerful entity on earth. They have the power to make the innocent guilty and to make the guilty innocent, and that's power. Because they control the minds of the masses. - Malcolm X

lindseylatch

But...does abortion count as "delivery?" I suppose it would depend on what type of abortion, how early in the pregnancy. Obviously a partial-birth abortion would count, I would think.
And just cause it's illegal and immoral does not mean it's impossible. As I'm sure we've all seen [censored political comment]...

Beside, I believe it was a joke...

__________________
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
"If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him."
"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."
-Voltaire

smooth

There isn't anything in this comment to indicate the poster is joking.

Yes, we should tie the tubes of all rape victims, that'll show em some responsibility...right tspikes?
Or is it just minors? Or just impoverished minors in state custody? The implications of your callous comment are endless.

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lindseylatch

1st, there's no evidence that the sex wasn't consentual. Now, because she's 13, it was technically rape. HOwever, if she consented, then she had some problems that need to be addressed, one being a problem with responsibility and the consequences of her actions.

Although he might not have been joking, he was probably being facetious.

And yeah, I think it'd be nice to temp. sterilize all minors, esp. the ones in state custody since they have had chaotic family lives and are a high risk group. Course, I'm with Adam Carolla, I'd like to sterilize a lot of people...Give evolution a little hand, in the direction I choose. (that was a joke, in case you couldn't tell).

__________________
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
"If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him."
"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."
-Voltaire

uncle_el

if it is/was a joke, i apologize (though i guess educating people isn't a bad thing, lol).

abortion does not count as a delivery, but a physician would not be able to perform an abortion, and then immediately perform a tubal ligation for a host of reasons:
1. anatomy- abortions are done vaginally, whereas tubal ligations are done laparoscopically or open... you cannot simply reach through a woman's vagina, up through the cervix, over to the tube from the inside out and do what needs to be done.
2. logistically different instruments are needed
3. logistically different rooms are used (abortions are done in procedure rooms, tubal ligations are done in the operating room)
4. logistically, when a surgery or procedure is scheduled, a particular set of isntruments/devices/equipment is prepped and sterilized, and brought to the room
5. the illegal and unethical reasons i previously stated
6. not to mention the immorality of it (after all, who is a physician to decide that a woman no longer needs to bear children)

it's happened in other cases before, a physician decides on his/her own that the woman no longer needs to have children, and performs a tubal ligation. said physician ends up facing a big time lawsuit because there is no professional standard to justify what was done, and the blatant paternal nature of such a decision.




also, though tubal ligations can be reversed, it doesn't mean that the tubes will be patent/open. the old way of "tying tubes" was to use suture on two different ends, and then cut out a piece in the middle. a newer way is to use surgical clips (old ones made of plastic, newer ones made of titanium) to clip either end. these clips can technically be removed in the future, but you have no idea how much scar tissue would have formed underneath the area of the clip. so, for all intents and puposes, tubal ligation is permanent sterilization.

__________________
An individual who breaks a law that conscience tells him is unjust, and who willingly accepts the penalty of inprisonment in order to arouse the conscience of the community over its injustice, is in reality expressing the highest respect for the law. - Martin Luther King, Jr.

The media's the most powerful entity on earth. They have the power to make the innocent guilty and to make the guilty innocent, and that's power. Because they control the minds of the masses. - Malcolm X

smooth

The more often you post, the more I grow concerned about Oregon's state of higher education.

What difference do you see between joking and facetious--other than syllables?
For someone studying psychology, you sure are painting with a big brush...

The reason it's "technically" rape is because a 13 year old girl isn't capable of consenting, according to the law. There is no if >> then here. She didn't consent. It would be nice if conservatives were at least consistent in their ideological rantings...but perhaps the internal inconsistencies in their logic wrap them up and prevent such from occurring.

Either the girl is a victim, unable to consent under the law, and deserves sympathy not smugness (nor penalties, such as, involuntary sterilization)

OR

the girl wasn't raped, was capable of consent, and can adequately decide whether she wants an abortion.

At which point do lindsey get to come into this equation and diagnose her with problems related to not understanding the consequences of her actions or the notion of responsibility?
She is no more or less responsible than a 23 year old who wears a condom or takes birth control, but still unfortunately becomes pregnant. Where in that story did it state the girl was conducting herself in an irresponsible manner? Or are you just assuming that because all 13 year olds act irresponsibly when it comes to sexual activity? If so, that reasoning is the underpinning of the law making this rape. If not, on what basis are you reaching your conclusions?

And why, in your view, does consensual sex, if that is what occurred, indicative of irresponsibility?

I'd be certainly willing to agree with you on the sterilization bit, starting with undergrads without reasoning skills past the holes in their asses. Evolution indeed...

__________________
"The theory of a free press is that truth will emerge from free discussion, not that it will be presented perfectly and instantly in any one account." -- Walter Lippmann

"You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists." -- Abbie Hoffman