Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community  

Go Back   Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community > The Academy > Tilted Politics


 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 05-05-2005, 06:52 PM   #41 (permalink)
Fuckin' A
 
tspikes51's Avatar
 
Location: Lex Vegas
Quote:
Originally Posted by fibber
Allow the abortion, tie the tubes while you're in there.
My thoughts exactly. Untie when she is responsible enough.
__________________
"I'm telling you, we need to get rid of a few people or a million."
-Maddox
tspikes51 is offline  
Old 05-06-2005, 07:07 AM   #42 (permalink)
Addict
 
lindseylatch's Avatar
 
Location: Seattle, WA
Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerDick
Nothing in life is guaranteed lindseylatch. Defaulting to abortion simply because there is no "guarantee" the baby will be adopted is ridiculous. I encourage you to do some research on the number of people seeking to adopt a child in relation to the declining number of children being put up for adoption.
It's only ridiculous for you, because you don't support abortions. I see nothing wrong with aborting this fetus. The problem here is not facts, but our starting points.
__________________
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
"If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him."
"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."
-Voltaire
lindseylatch is offline  
Old 05-06-2005, 04:06 PM   #43 (permalink)
Crazy
 
Location: n hollywood, ca
Quote:
Originally Posted by fibber
Allow the abortion, tie the tubes while you're in there. Then have a Pepsi.
1. you lack the knowledge of anatomy to understand the impossibility of such a feat.
2. it's illegal to tie a woman's tubes directly after delivery (whether vaginal or cesarean, it must be done as a separate procedure 24 hours later)
3. it's unethical to tie a woman's tubes directly after delivery (whether vaginal or cesarean)

both the illegality and unethical nature of doing such a thing would open the doctor up to a huge malpractice lawsuit... which would cost the state even more money...
__________________
An individual who breaks a law that conscience tells him is unjust, and who willingly accepts the penalty of inprisonment in order to arouse the conscience of the community over its injustice, is in reality expressing the highest respect for the law. - Martin Luther King, Jr.

The media's the most powerful entity on earth. They have the power to make the innocent guilty and to make the guilty innocent, and that's power. Because they control the minds of the masses. - Malcolm X
uncle_el is offline  
Old 05-06-2005, 05:58 PM   #44 (permalink)
Addict
 
lindseylatch's Avatar
 
Location: Seattle, WA
Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle_el
1. you lack the knowledge of anatomy to understand the impossibility of such a feat.
2. it's illegal to tie a woman's tubes directly after delivery (whether vaginal or cesarean, it must be done as a separate procedure 24 hours later)
3. it's unethical to tie a woman's tubes directly after delivery (whether vaginal or cesarean)

both the illegality and unethical nature of doing such a thing would open the doctor up to a huge malpractice lawsuit... which would cost the state even more money...
But...does abortion count as "delivery?" I suppose it would depend on what type of abortion, how early in the pregnancy. Obviously a partial-birth abortion would count, I would think.
And just cause it's illegal and immoral does not mean it's impossible. As I'm sure we've all seen [censored political comment]...

Beside, I believe it was a joke...
__________________
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
"If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him."
"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."
-Voltaire
lindseylatch is offline  
Old 05-06-2005, 07:30 PM   #45 (permalink)
Junkie
 
Location: Right here
Quote:
Originally Posted by tspikes51
My thoughts exactly. Untie when she is responsible enough.
There isn't anything in this comment to indicate the poster is joking.

Yes, we should tie the tubes of all rape victims, that'll show em some responsibility...right tspikes?
Or is it just minors? Or just impoverished minors in state custody? The implications of your callous comment are endless.
__________________
"The theory of a free press is that truth will emerge from free discussion, not that it will be presented perfectly and instantly in any one account." -- Walter Lippmann

"You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists." -- Abbie Hoffman
smooth is offline  
Old 05-07-2005, 12:08 AM   #46 (permalink)
Addict
 
lindseylatch's Avatar
 
Location: Seattle, WA
Quote:
Originally Posted by smooth
There isn't anything in this comment to indicate the poster is joking.

Yes, we should tie the tubes of all rape victims, that'll show em some responsibility...right tspikes?
Or is it just minors? Or just impoverished minors in state custody? The implications of your callous comment are endless.
1st, there's no evidence that the sex wasn't consentual. Now, because she's 13, it was technically rape. HOwever, if she consented, then she had some problems that need to be addressed, one being a problem with responsibility and the consequences of her actions.

Although he might not have been joking, he was probably being facetious.

And yeah, I think it'd be nice to temp. sterilize all minors, esp. the ones in state custody since they have had chaotic family lives and are a high risk group. Course, I'm with Adam Carolla, I'd like to sterilize a lot of people...Give evolution a little hand, in the direction I choose. (that was a joke, in case you couldn't tell).
__________________
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
"If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him."
"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."
-Voltaire
lindseylatch is offline  
Old 05-07-2005, 08:29 AM   #47 (permalink)
Crazy
 
Location: n hollywood, ca
Quote:
Originally Posted by lindseylatch
But...does abortion count as "delivery?" I suppose it would depend on what type of abortion, how early in the pregnancy. Obviously a partial-birth abortion would count, I would think.
And just cause it's illegal and immoral does not mean it's impossible. As I'm sure we've all seen [censored political comment]...

Beside, I believe it was a joke...
if it is/was a joke, i apologize (though i guess educating people isn't a bad thing, lol).

abortion does not count as a delivery, but a physician would not be able to perform an abortion, and then immediately perform a tubal ligation for a host of reasons:
1. anatomy- abortions are done vaginally, whereas tubal ligations are done laparoscopically or open... you cannot simply reach through a woman's vagina, up through the cervix, over to the tube from the inside out and do what needs to be done.
2. logistically different instruments are needed
3. logistically different rooms are used (abortions are done in procedure rooms, tubal ligations are done in the operating room)
4. logistically, when a surgery or procedure is scheduled, a particular set of isntruments/devices/equipment is prepped and sterilized, and brought to the room
5. the illegal and unethical reasons i previously stated
6. not to mention the immorality of it (after all, who is a physician to decide that a woman no longer needs to bear children)

it's happened in other cases before, a physician decides on his/her own that the woman no longer needs to have children, and performs a tubal ligation. said physician ends up facing a big time lawsuit because there is no professional standard to justify what was done, and the blatant paternal nature of such a decision.




also, though tubal ligations can be reversed, it doesn't mean that the tubes will be patent/open. the old way of "tying tubes" was to use suture on two different ends, and then cut out a piece in the middle. a newer way is to use surgical clips (old ones made of plastic, newer ones made of titanium) to clip either end. these clips can technically be removed in the future, but you have no idea how much scar tissue would have formed underneath the area of the clip. so, for all intents and puposes, tubal ligation is permanent sterilization.
__________________
An individual who breaks a law that conscience tells him is unjust, and who willingly accepts the penalty of inprisonment in order to arouse the conscience of the community over its injustice, is in reality expressing the highest respect for the law. - Martin Luther King, Jr.

The media's the most powerful entity on earth. They have the power to make the innocent guilty and to make the guilty innocent, and that's power. Because they control the minds of the masses. - Malcolm X
uncle_el is offline  
Old 05-07-2005, 08:31 AM   #48 (permalink)
Junkie
 
Location: Right here
Quote:
Originally Posted by lindseylatch
1st, there's no evidence that the sex wasn't consentual. Now, because she's 13, it was technically rape. HOwever, if she consented, then she had some problems that need to be addressed, one being a problem with responsibility and the consequences of her actions.

Although he might not have been joking, he was probably being facetious.

And yeah, I think it'd be nice to temp. sterilize all minors, esp. the ones in state custody since they have had chaotic family lives and are a high risk group. Course, I'm with Adam Carolla, I'd like to sterilize a lot of people...Give evolution a little hand, in the direction I choose. (that was a joke, in case you couldn't tell).
The more often you post, the more I grow concerned about Oregon's state of higher education.

What difference do you see between joking and facetious--other than syllables?
For someone studying psychology, you sure are painting with a big brush...

The reason it's "technically" rape is because a 13 year old girl isn't capable of consenting, according to the law. There is no if >> then here. She didn't consent. It would be nice if conservatives were at least consistent in their ideological rantings...but perhaps the internal inconsistencies in their logic wrap them up and prevent such from occurring.

Either the girl is a victim, unable to consent under the law, and deserves sympathy not smugness (nor penalties, such as, involuntary sterilization)

OR

the girl wasn't raped, was capable of consent, and can adequately decide whether she wants an abortion.

At which point do lindsey get to come into this equation and diagnose her with problems related to not understanding the consequences of her actions or the notion of responsibility?
She is no more or less responsible than a 23 year old who wears a condom or takes birth control, but still unfortunately becomes pregnant. Where in that story did it state the girl was conducting herself in an irresponsible manner? Or are you just assuming that because all 13 year olds act irresponsibly when it comes to sexual activity? If so, that reasoning is the underpinning of the law making this rape. If not, on what basis are you reaching your conclusions?

And why, in your view, does consensual sex, if that is what occurred, indicative of irresponsibility?

I'd be certainly willing to agree with you on the sterilization bit, starting with undergrads without reasoning skills past the holes in their asses. Evolution indeed...
__________________
"The theory of a free press is that truth will emerge from free discussion, not that it will be presented perfectly and instantly in any one account." -- Walter Lippmann

"You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists." -- Abbie Hoffman
smooth is offline  
 

Tags
abortion, florida, girl, judge, rules, year

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 02:31 PM.

Tilted Forum Project

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
© 2002-2012 Tilted Forum Project

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360