BSE coverup in the USA? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Yakk · 04-13-2005, 12:53 PM

http://www.herald.ns.ca/stories/2005...da201.raw.html

Quote:

U.S. covering up mad cow cases, scientist insists

By Dennis Bueckert / The Canadian Press

OTTAWA - A scientist and former inspector for the U.S Agriculture Department says he's willing to take a lie detector test to back his claim that his government is covering up mad cow disease.

Lester Friedlander, now a consumer advocate, was fired from his job as head of inspections at a large meat-packing plant in Philadelphia in 1995 after criticizing what he called unsafe practices.

Friedlander said he knows U.S. Agriculture Department veterinarians who sent suspect cow brains to private laboratories that confirmed mad cow infection, but samples from the same animals were cleared by government labs.

"It's several veterinarians that have given me similar stories about sending cow brains in," he said in an interview Tuesday. "It might be shocking for Canadians but it wouldn't be shocking for veterinarians that have worked for the USDA.

"I'm willing to back this up with a voice stress analysis test or even a lie detector test."

Friedlander wouldn't name the veterinarians, saying they still work for the Agriculture Department and would be fired if identified.

The department has denied Friedlander's allegations, which were first reported last week.

Rob McNabb, a spokesman for the Canadian Cattlemen's Association, said it does seem puzzling that four mad cow cases have been detected in Canadian-born cattle but none in U.S.-born cattle.

"It's true that the risk . . . is very similar, and it is surprising," he said.

There are 120 million cattle in the United States, 15 million in Canada.

"I guess there's always going to be people raising the question, 'How come it's 4-0?,' " he said.

But McNabb wouldn't comment on Friedlander's allegations.

Michael Hansen, a scientist with the U.S. Consumers Union in Washington, said there's widespread suspicion about the testing of three suspected cases of mad cow in U.S. cattle.

Hansen said all tests came back negative in the three cases but the USDA used a rapid test based on immuno-histochemistry, not the Western blot test which is considered most reliable.

"Many of the top scientists think that's insane," he said of the use of the less reliable test.

He said there are also suspicions about a recent case in St. Angelo, Tex., when officials at an abattoir noticed a cow was staggering and wanted it tested, but permission was refused.

"The federal inspectors and the plant employees all wanted to test the animal and basically (the USDA) said, 'Nah, we're not going to do that.' So the animal was sent to rendering and was never tested."

Friedlander was in Ottawa to testify at a Commons committee examining proposed changes to the Canadian food regulation system.

This is chillingly believeable. I've seen calls for the Canadian government to do the same (cover up BSE). I have heard rumours that the CBC is going to put out a piece of investigative journalism on this subject in a few days, so this could get interesting...

the_marq · 04-13-2005, 01:03 PM

Yeah I was wondering about this over a year ago. It just struck me as far to implausible that there could be 2 or more cases of BSE in Canada and yet NONE in the USA. I don't mean to point fingers but it just seems kinda unlikely...

liquidlight · 04-13-2005, 01:08 PM

Being American, I'm not too worried, give us all Mad Cow Disease, for 999/1000 people you wouldn't be able to tell the difference anyway. (Yes I know it's more serious than that.)

stevie667 · 04-13-2005, 01:42 PM

If you've seen the fuss that was made over here in the UK about BSE a few years back, with all the movement restrictions, culling and various other ho ha going on, you'd understand why governments would cover this type of thing up.

BSE is very nasty, CJD is even worse. You don't want them in your country because it's annoying to clear up and everyone gets in a big strop when their cattle have to be killed, or can't go anywhere.

Talk to the french, they're very good at covering up things like this, and making a fuss when it happens to someone else.

samcol · 04-13-2005, 02:10 PM

Mad Cow can actually remain dorment for 10+ years. It is a very real possibility that there is a Mad Cow epidemic and we don't even know about it. Not to mention it shares similar characteristics to Alzheimer's disease, so it would be easy for a doctor to mis-diagnose someone.

Quote:

On May 12, 1997, ABC World News Tonight reported that "people may not be contracting Alzheimer's as often as we think. The bad news is that they may be getting something worse instead. . . . This is about Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease. It is fatal. It destroys your brain, and what is worse, it is infectious."

Mad-Cow mis-diagnosed as Alzheimer's

Quote:

Scientists estimate the incubation period for vCJD is 10 to 20 years.

http://www.organicconsumers.org/madcow/japan20705.cfm

Now with reports of a cover-up? This is very scary.

BigBen · 04-13-2005, 02:25 PM

Not good.

I hate to say this, but I will since I am in TF Politics...

I agree. I think that there is a cover-up.

Maybe move this thread to TF Paranoia.

guthmund · 04-13-2005, 02:55 PM

Not good, indeed.

It wouldn't surprise me in the least if there was a cover-up. Beef is big business in the U.S. and that big business, especially the beef industry, has done some pretty sketchy things over the years (read: Fast-Food Nation, if there is any doubt)

The federal government (not just the current incarnation

) is certainly very protective of the almighty corporation. If there were an epidemic, it isn't all that hard to imagine what it would do to the U.S. economy. I imagine that's why there is a cover-up, if there is a cover-up.

jonjon42 · 04-13-2005, 05:22 PM

it's possible but the implications are frightening. In 20 years time, things could get very nasty for alot of people. I'm not going to panic yet, but I am going to get an eye out for more on this. (and stop eating beef for awhile)

Ace_O_Spades · 04-13-2005, 06:19 PM

This infuriates me, if it is true. Absolutley infuriates me.

If they've closed their borders to our beef, and the UK's beef when they had their scare, then subsequently subvert safe testing practices to sweep their own cases under the rug... I... I just don't even know what to say.

It just seems altogether a stereotypical world-view USA thing to do...

Willravel · 04-13-2005, 06:40 PM

This isn't paranoia. There is a real possibility that there is a cover up.

metalgeek · 04-14-2005, 09:33 AM

Honestly, A grew up in rural Alberta, and the farmers there have been talking about this for years, long before Mad Cow was found in Canada, it was a pretty strong rumour even 5-6 years ago.
Should their be mandatory testing for all animals?
At the moment, probably, although they also need to stop feeding animal protein to animals.

samcol · 04-14-2005, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by metalgeek

At the moment, probably, although they also need to stop feeding animal protein to animals.

That's the whole problem. I didn't realize till a few months ago that this isn't just some random disease. Whoever feeds these animals or makes the feed has to actively put organs from cows and other animals in it for them to get mad cow.

So disgusting...

Ace_O_Spades · 04-14-2005, 11:55 AM

I wonder if anything will actually come of this... or it will just go away.

I'd like it to be explored thoroughly simply for the sheer impact the USA ban on Canadian beef has had on the Canadian cattle industry... Hypocricy at its best if this is in fact true.

Yakk · 04-14-2005, 01:19 PM

Nevermind hypocracy.

It's tantamount to expropriation!

trickyy · 04-18-2005, 08:30 PM

it's only in the brain and spinal cord of the animal though, right?

beef is supposedly cut from other areas of the animal. that doesn't mean you're completely safe, of course.

abscondo · 04-21-2005, 08:36 PM

I'm not sure I believe that there's a cover-up ... but when the government comes out against tougher regulations (being pro-business GOPers) -- to extent that they forbid meat being tested privately to ensure its safety -- I get very nervous.

One of these days, all hell is going to break loose on this. Or maybe it already has, and we just don't realize it yet, due to what samcol was talking about.

If the beef industry thinks mad cow testing is too expensive, wait until they see the jury awards from the product liability lawsuits. (Of course, the GOP is working on that angle too.)

kramus · 04-21-2005, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trickyy

it's only in the brain and spinal cord of the animal though, right?

beef is supposedly cut from other areas of the animal. that doesn't mean you're completely safe, of course.

Mechanical rendering means that automatic equipment strips things such as the nervous tissue from the animals spinal cord to get every bit of juicy goodness from the cow. This material is used in processed meats and meat byproducts that are universally marketed throughout North America. Read the can on cheap stews etc where you can get chunks of "formed beef". Try to read the exact cut of beef that goes into some of those beef sausages and sliced sandwich meat packages that look so clean and safe in your grocery store.

Charlatan · 04-22-2005, 05:05 AM

This wouldn't surprise me in the least...

and if it ever gets out that it is happening you can bet all hell will break loose.

smooth · 04-22-2005, 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonjon42

but I am going to get an eye out for more on this. (and stop eating beef for awhile)

if you are serious about this, you might consider checking my information and cutting all meats from your diet.
currently, the law allows rendered products and by-product, even contaminated cow, to be used in supplements not for human consumption. So scraps can be and are legitimately sold for poultry and pork feed. Those products can become contaminated, but worse, they can also legally be rendered and sold back for cattle feed. So, while one can't feed cattle product to cattle product, one can route it through a pig and effectively bypass the reasoning behind that law.

It's my wife's and my firm belief that our meat products are and have been contaminated for quite some time. Our view is shared by the scientist who discovered BSE. He also has been arguing for a long time that Alzheimers patients are suffering from symptoms and their brain slides are remarkably similar to cvJD patients.

On the plus side, it's not a one-shotter disease. It depends on the intake, so while many if not all of us are likely contaminated, we can reduce intake and the disease will take longer to set in. I guess that's a plus. Eat organic and/or kosher meats if you must. I think those two are the safest and they constitute the bulk of our limited meat dietary intake. We rarely eat out anymore, but sometimes I still have a burger, to be honest. Nothing like I used to eat, though, and certainly not the amount mainstream america is eating.

Janey · 04-22-2005, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kramus

Mechanical rendering means that automatic equipment strips things such as the nervous tissue from the animals spinal cord to get every bit of juicy goodness from the cow. This material is used in processed meats and meat byproducts that are universally marketed throughout North America. Read the can on cheap stews etc where you can get chunks of "formed beef". Try to read the exact cut of beef that goes into some of those beef sausages and sliced sandwich meat packages that look so clean and safe in your grocery store.

yuck.

I'm buying a grinder attachment for my kitchenaid, and going to make my own hamburger and sausage from now on. i am also only going to buy Triple A or Prime cuts as well, and no more processed luncheon meats (unless its chicken or ham - oh I hope there's no problem with those).

Elphaba · 04-29-2005, 04:12 PM

Did anyone notice that Bush's reopening of Canadian beef exports to the US occurred at the same time that Canada made it more restrictive to send pharmaceuticals to the US?

Both governments claim that it is merely a coincidence.

Ayup. Sure it was.

04-13-2005, 01:03 PM	#2 (permalink)
the_marq All hail the Mountain King Location: Black Mesa	Yeah I was wondering about this over a year ago. It just struck me as far to implausible that there could be 2 or more cases of BSE in Canada and yet NONE in the USA. I don't mean to point fingers but it just seems kinda unlikely... __________________ The Truth: Johnny Cash could have kicked Bruce Lee's ass if he wanted to. #3 in a series

04-13-2005, 01:08 PM	#3 (permalink)
liquidlight AHH! Custom Title!! Location: The twisted warpings of my brain.	Being American, I'm not too worried, give us all Mad Cow Disease, for 999/1000 people you wouldn't be able to tell the difference anyway. (Yes I know it's more serious than that.) __________________ Halfway to hell and picking up speed.

04-13-2005, 01:42 PM	#4 (permalink)
stevie667 Too Awesome for Aardvarks Location: Angloland	If you've seen the fuss that was made over here in the UK about BSE a few years back, with all the movement restrictions, culling and various other ho ha going on, you'd understand why governments would cover this type of thing up. BSE is very nasty, CJD is even worse. You don't want them in your country because it's annoying to clear up and everyone gets in a big strop when their cattle have to be killed, or can't go anywhere. Talk to the french, they're very good at covering up things like this, and making a fuss when it happens to someone else. __________________ Office hours have changed. Please call during office hours for more information.

04-13-2005, 02:25 PM	#6 (permalink)
BigBen Comedian Location: Use the search button	Not good. I hate to say this, but I will since I am in TF Politics... I agree. I think that there is a cover-up. Maybe move this thread to TF Paranoia. __________________ 3.141592654 Hey, if you are impressed with my memorizing pi to 10 digits, you should see the size of my penis.

04-13-2005, 02:55 PM	#7 (permalink)
guthmund big damn hero	Not good, indeed. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if there was a cover-up. Beef is big business in the U.S. and that big business, especially the beef industry, has done some pretty sketchy things over the years (read: Fast-Food Nation, if there is any doubt) The federal government (not just the current incarnation ) is certainly very protective of the almighty corporation. If there were an epidemic, it isn't all that hard to imagine what it would do to the U.S. economy. I imagine that's why there is a cover-up, if there is a cover-up. __________________ No signature. None. Seriously.

04-13-2005, 05:22 PM	#8 (permalink)
jonjon42 Psycho Location: inside my own mind	it's possible but the implications are frightening. In 20 years time, things could get very nasty for alot of people. I'm not going to panic yet, but I am going to get an eye out for more on this. (and stop eating beef for awhile) __________________ A damn dirty hippie without the dirty part....

04-13-2005, 06:19 PM	#9 (permalink)
Ace_O_Spades The Death Card Location: EH!?!?	This infuriates me, if it is true. Absolutley infuriates me. If they've closed their borders to our beef, and the UK's beef when they had their scare, then subsequently subvert safe testing practices to sweep their own cases under the rug... I... I just don't even know what to say. It just seems altogether a stereotypical world-view USA thing to do... __________________ Feh.

04-13-2005, 06:40 PM	#10 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	This isn't paranoia. There is a real possibility that there is a cover up.

04-14-2005, 09:33 AM	#11 (permalink)
metalgeek Insane Location: Calgary	Honestly, A grew up in rural Alberta, and the farmers there have been talking about this for years, long before Mad Cow was found in Canada, it was a pretty strong rumour even 5-6 years ago. Should their be mandatory testing for all animals? At the moment, probably, although they also need to stop feeding animal protein to animals. __________________ The truth is, wherever you choose to be, it's the wrong place. Chuck Palahniuk , Diary

04-14-2005, 11:55 AM	#13 (permalink)
Ace_O_Spades The Death Card Location: EH!?!?	I wonder if anything will actually come of this... or it will just go away. I'd like it to be explored thoroughly simply for the sheer impact the USA ban on Canadian beef has had on the Canadian cattle industry... Hypocricy at its best if this is in fact true. __________________ Feh.

04-14-2005, 01:19 PM	#14 (permalink)
Yakk Wehret Den Anfängen! Location: Ontario, Canada	Nevermind hypocracy. It's tantamount to expropriation! __________________ Last edited by JHVH : 10-29-4004 BC at 09:00 PM. Reason: Time for a rest.

04-18-2005, 08:30 PM	#15 (permalink)
trickyy ►	it's only in the brain and spinal cord of the animal though, right? beef is supposedly cut from other areas of the animal. that doesn't mean you're completely safe, of course.

04-21-2005, 08:36 PM	#16 (permalink)
abscondo Tilted Location: MI	I'm not sure I believe that there's a cover-up ... but when the government comes out against tougher regulations (being pro-business GOPers) -- to extent that they forbid meat being tested privately to ensure its safety -- I get very nervous. One of these days, all hell is going to break loose on this. Or maybe it already has, and we just don't realize it yet, due to what samcol was talking about. If the beef industry thinks mad cow testing is too expensive, wait until they see the jury awards from the product liability lawsuits. (Of course, the GOP is working on that angle too.) __________________ Ceci n'est pas une pipe.

04-22-2005, 05:05 AM	#18 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	This wouldn't surprise me in the least... and if it ever gets out that it is happening you can bet all hell will break loose. __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

04-29-2005, 04:12 PM	#21 (permalink)
Elphaba Deja Moo Location: Olympic Peninsula, WA	Did anyone notice that Bush's reopening of Canadian beef exports to the US occurred at the same time that Canada made it more restrictive to send pharmaceuticals to the US? Both governments claim that it is merely a coincidence. Ayup. Sure it was.