Canada: Is the Gomery Inquiry going to bring down the Liberals? - Page 3 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Sticky · 05-12-2005, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlatan

By the way, what is everyone's take on yesterday's vote in the House of Commons?

I think the Bloc and Conservatives are making asses of themselves by forcing the issue. The vote wasn't a non-confidence vote it was a proceedural matter. Why rush things? Even with the justification of Adscam behind they still come off like sour grapes...

They should just wait until next Feb when Martin has promised to call the election. In the meantime just let the country get on with business.

Of course their fear is that everyone in Canada will forget what has happened by the time Feb comes around...

I just love that the Conservative and Bloc are working together... politcs makes strange bedfellows, no?

I agree with you that it was just a proceedural matter but the point that they are trying to make (even though they are whinning about it is that they believe that the government has lost the confidence of the house.

I believe they have lost the confidence of the house. At the same time in a minority gov't (and one that is so closly split) it is easy to loose the confidence of the house. It is pretty much inevitable that the gov't will be brought down, if in the menatime teh government (not just the Libs, but the whole house) is useless, they why postpone the inevitable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janey

Well! goddamit, what are the options???? Another minority gov't that is in bed with the Bloc, just so that they can pull down the current govt?? uh uh.

There won't be a minority gov't that is in bed with the Bloc. The Bloc will only do what they think benefits Quebecers. Therefore, unless they get what they want from the party in power, they will always oppose that party. They are not in bed with the Tories now becuase they are the Tories. They are voting with them becuase it serves them politically in Quebec to oppose the Liberals.

It would be interesting though to see how a Conservative gov't would try to keep power. They obviously would not be able to bring in the Liberals. It would be really odd to see them work with the NDP. And don't expect the Bloc to be any help to anybody.

I think that what it may do for them is legitamize them a little bit. Even if they don't last long (if they make it of course), if they play it safe they may legitamize themsleves in the eyes of some of the more right wing Canadians that are currently voting liberal becuase they are afraid of the Conservatives (made up of a lot of old Reform).

Everyone should be excited. Not for the state of our government, but becuase politics here have not been interesting in years. There is now finally something worth following.

Yakk · 05-12-2005, 10:27 AM

I don't pay my politicians for enternatainment or excitement.

I pay them to run the god damn country.

BigBen · 05-12-2005, 12:43 PM

Is it true that the Liberals are waiting for "Their" confidence vote until next week because they know that there is a BC torie that needs cancer surgery and he won't vote? That is just low, to wait until the big C takes out your competition.

The GG should stop this mess.

splck · 05-12-2005, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBen931

Is it true that the Liberals are waiting for "Their" confidence vote until next week because they know that there is a BC torie that needs cancer surgery and he won't vote? That is just low, to wait until the big C takes out your competition.

The GG should stop this mess.

I think there are two non-Liberal MP's that are sick with Cancer and may or may not be able to travel next week.
I don't see any valid reason to delay the budget/confidence vote until next week. The only reason the Libs want to vote over their budget is so they can say how the bad old PC's forced an election over the failure to pass the budget rather than on some non-sexy procedure vote. The Liberals have lost the moral authority to govern and as such, are a bunch of lame ducks; it's as plain as that. Waiting till January is simply a waste of time and will only hamstring parliament.
I agree that this whole mess should end now eventhough I must admit I like watching martin bleat like a stuck pig

I'm sure Martin also wants the publicity pics from the photo op with the Queen next week.

Sticky · 05-12-2005, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yakk

I don't pay my politicians for enternatainment or excitement.

I pay them to run the god damn country.

Too bad though.
You are not going to get what you are paying for as long as there is a minority gov't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBen931

Is it true that the Liberals are waiting for "Their" confidence vote until next week because they know that there is a BC torie that needs cancer surgery and he won't vote? That is just low, to wait until the big C takes out your competition.

The GG should stop this mess.

It is true that there are two Tory MPs undergoing cancer treatment as well as one independant MP.
The Tories HAVE accused the Libs of what you say above.
But I still, would like to think anyway, that it is a big jump for them to actually be pushing of the ovte for that reason. Nothing would surprise me.

It is more likely that they hope to get a boost from the Queen coming to town.

Janey · 05-13-2005, 03:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sticky

Too bad though.
You are not going to get what you are paying for as long as there is a minority gov't.

It is true that there are two Tory MPs undergoing cancer treatment as well as one independant MP.
The Tories HAVE accused the Libs of what you say above.
.

Harper should just shut up. with statements like that he's going to snatch defeat etc etc etc....

silent_jay · 05-13-2005, 03:45 AM

Seems to be the Harper special, he doesn't know when to shut up when things are going his way, he keeps pushing and pushing.

OFKU0 · 05-13-2005, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yakk

I don't pay my politicians for enternatainment or excitement.

I pay them to run the god damn country.

And to run the country we need a prime minister and his party to show leadership and a vision which has been sorely lacking for many years now.

And further, we need the countries people to hold ineffective regimes accountable and make them responsible to us, not to their own special interests,....that is if we can stay awake long enough to give a shit.

What was the poll a few days ago. 68% of people think Martin is lying and knew about the sponsorship scandal,...yet when asked if Martin is doing a good job, about the same percentage agreed he was doing a good job. Can't get more blunt than that!

Janey · 05-13-2005, 08:48 AM

take my nephew as a case in point: he gets an allowance from his dad, which is very big because he handles the household bills too. He lies to his dad about where he spends his allowance, a lot of it going into his pocket. But at work he is one of the high performers, and gets excellent reviews. Plus he does a good job about managing the household bills.

I know he is lying, but I also know he is doing a good job.

Powderedmaggot · 05-13-2005, 09:02 AM

I think this guy will bring down the liberals on May 19th.

He reminds me a bit of George Carlin.

Sticky · 05-13-2005, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janey

take my nephew as a case in point: he gets an allowance from his dad, which is very big because he handles the household bills too. He lies to his dad about where he spends his allowance, a lot of it going into his pocket. But at work he is one of the high performers, and gets excellent reviews. Plus he does a good job about managing the household bills.

I know he is lying, but I also know he is doing a good job.

I don't get that.

He is doing a good job for his employer. He is lying to his father.
People say that Martin is doing a god job (for the people). The same people say he is lying (to the People).

I don't think the cases are the same. Now, if his employer who said he is doing a good job also knew that he was lying to them - that would be a similar situation.

Janey · 05-13-2005, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sticky

I don't get that.

He is doing a good job for his employer. He is lying to his father.
People say that Martin is doing a god job (for the people). The same people say he is lying (to the People).

I don't think the cases are the same. Now, if his employer who said he is doing a good job also knew that he was lying to them - that would be a similar situation.

no... that would be an identical situation. I meant it as a parallel, not identical. It's not hard, perception-wise for people to observe a person as lying, yet still observe them to be performing a good job.

sooo... let me see, do I want a lying and swindling Liberal Party that makes deals to save their assets to run my county or a pack of ravenous Tories that drool when they smell blood and sleep with an enemy that wants no more than to separate my country? How about the Green Party! The House needs a spring cleaning.

OFKU0 · 05-13-2005, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janey

sooo... let me see, do I want a lying and swindling Liberal Party that makes deals to save their assets to run my county or a pack of ravenous Tories that drool when they smell blood and sleep with an enemy that wants no more than to separate my country? How about the Green Party! The House needs a spring cleaning.

Marijuana Party anyone? And the Tories sleeping with the enemy (Bloc) is a relatively new thing. Maybe Harper should talk to Martin and get some tips since the Liberals have been in bed with the Bloc forever.

Your right though. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. And for that I blame the near 60% of the population who can't get off their butts to vote. Come June 27th or somewhere near there, I hope Corner Gas or Canadian Idol isn't on the tube that night,...just might have an all time low turnout at the polls.

Janey · 05-14-2005, 04:00 AM

you hit it OFKUO. The west may whine and complain that their votes don't count (but really that's an old song, and will always be the case until population distribution evens out. And with BC voting liberal provincially, it looks like Conservative (reform) is the odd party out)

I can't standh ow people dont vote. I also can't stand how people ALWAYS forget how the Liberals cam into power in the first place: years and years of PC Federal party rule that was the most reviled in Canadian history, so much so, that their party status was eliminated.

I have never missed voting and have cast for NDP, PC & Liberal in the past (because I am an Issue voter). These non voters revile me tho. ( I don't know about the liberals being in bed wiht the Bloc tho, I have a feeling that rhetoric is starting to hold sway).

Sticky · 05-15-2005, 07:18 AM

I agree, I con't stand when people don't vote and try to justify it by saying that their vote doesn't really count anyway.

As for the Bloc being in bed with anybody. I said it earlier. Let's not kid ourselves. The Bloc just like any other party is in this for themselves. They are not in bed with anybody they are just doing what is going to serve their purpose the best.

Charlatan · 05-15-2005, 07:55 AM

I don't think the issue is the Bloc being in bed with anyone rather the issue is who is in bed with the Bloc...

Sure Harper is getting what he wants by climbing into bed with the Bloc but after getting what he wants it is going to be an uncomfortable walk of shame in the morning...

Sticky · 05-16-2005, 09:06 AM

I understand what you are saying, what I mean is that nobody is in bed with the Bloc.

The Liberals are in bed with the NDP. They had to bend over...I mean give something to the NDP to get them to go along with them.

The Tories (unless I missed something) did not give anything (or promise) anything to the Bloc. They don't need to give anything becuase the Bloc is going to vote the same way as them on bringing down the gov't. In fact, Harper haters should give the bloc credit in that they would probably not take anything from the Tories even if they did promise it.

I guess the way that I think of being in bed is having some type of deal.

Janey · 05-16-2005, 09:20 AM

you're probably right. another example of how rhetoric is getting away from us. We automatically assume that because Harper has made statements of how his partywill vote alongside the Bloc to bring down the government, that he is making deals with them. This is most likely not the case. I wonder why the Liberals didn't attempt coallition with the Conservatives as they did with the NDP?

At any rate, I think that Harper actually wants to be PM, otherwise he would be working with the Government to get legislation passed that the Conservatives actually would like to see. just like the NDP has managed to do.

Charlatan · 05-16-2005, 10:17 AM

The reason is just as you stated... Harper wants to be PM. He thinks he can get at least a minority government out this election or he would be having us go to the polls only a year after the last election.

Sticky... that is a good point. Harper may not be in bed with the Bloc... that said I wouldn't put it past them to agree to do this but not advertise the fact. And the fact that I am thinking this means a lot of others are probably doing the same...

OFKU0 · 05-24-2005, 11:42 AM

Well it appears the sponsorship dollars might not be $250 million but now $355 million. Just another hundred reasons to continue voting Liberal.

And of course if these numbers are verified, it won't make one spit of difference. Why should it? It's only our money being wasted. People would rather be blinded by rhetoric of all things scary rather than what is under their noses, something other than green grass.

Quote:

Updated Tue. May. 24 2005 3:27 PM ET

Sponsorship loss now $355 million, probe finds
CTV.ca News Staff

The total amount of money lost in the sponsorship scandal now appears to be $355 million -- $100 million more than was originally thought.

"If you didn't like the sponsorship program to begin with, you've now got about a hundred million more reasons to not like it," CTV's Jed Kahane told CTV Newsnet on Tuesday.

The new figure of $355 million is from the forensic accounting firm, Kroll Lindquist Avey.

"They have in the past looked for money from such people as Saddam Hussein, the Marcos family, Manuel Noriega -- that sort of thing," Kahane said.

"They're used to looking far and wide for money."

The sponsorship inquiry -- headed up by judge John
Gomery -- was ordered last year, after a report by the federal Auditor General found irregularities in the now-defunct sponsorship program.

The program, established by former prime minister Jean Chretien to promote national unity, wound up paying Liberal-friendly ad firms for little or no work.

Kahane, who is watching the proceedings of the Gomery commission in Montreal, said the total figure is "a lot more money than we thought."

"Up until now, for the past couple of years, we've been talking about $250 million. Kroll and Lindquist says it was $355 million, so a jump of almost 50 per cent."

Kahane also noted that Kroll and Lindquist have produced a 300-page report that shows, in their opinion, how much money was spent and who profited from it.

"For example, the ad firms at the centre of the scandal made $51 million in profits for themselves during the years of the sponsorship program," Kahane reported.

May plead guilty

In other news from the sponsorship inquiry, Paul Coffin, the first person charged in the scandal, has asked that the date of his plea on fraud charges be moved up a week.

Coffin's fraud trial was supposed to begin on June 6. Now he'll enter his plea on May 31, leading to speculation he may plead guilty.

The Crown Prosecutor, Francois Drolet, wouldn't confirm that, but said "the date has not been set for nothing."

Also on Tuesday, Alfonso Gagliano has been rebuffed in his bid to help oust Justice John Gomery from the sponsorship inquiry.

A lawyer for the ex-public works minister couldn't persuade a Federal Court judge that Gagliano should be allowed to help remove Gomery.

With files from CTV's Jed Kahane and from The Canadian Press

http://g.msn.com/0US!s6.73430_734763/2.b7371/2??cm=CTVNews

Charlatan · 05-24-2005, 11:58 AM

Apparently the voters have bigger concerns than 355 million... I don't believe it is simply rhetoric that is preventing them from voting other than Liberal...

People are pissed to be sure. The Liberals will feel the sting of their actions in Quebec. I predict they loose many of the 21 seats they hold in Quebec. Until Gomery is done we don't really know how far up the scandal goes (i.e. what did Martin know) or if it touches Liberals outside of Quebec (this is important in Ontario).

Until the Conservatives can mount a truly national party you can forget about them getting anything more than a weak minority. I say weak because who will support them? The Liberals? The NDP? The Bloc?

If they win a minority I would count on a new election as soon as the Liberals can elect a new leader and clean house... 18 months, tops.

OFKU0 · 05-24-2005, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlatan

Until the Conservatives can mount a truly national party you can forget about them getting anything more than a weak minority. I say weak because who will support them? The Liberals? The NDP? The Bloc?

If they win a minority I would count on a new election as soon as the Liberals can elect a new leader and clean house... 18 months, tops.

Now you see, the way you just stated that if in fact that happened, would seem to most that an 18 month period would be acceptable for the Liberals to regain power. Why is it when the Tories scream and yell over an election call, they are painted as power hungry, hell bent on winning at all cost and are decidedly going to ruin Canada and split it apart, and at the very least are set to waste 300 million for an election?

I'm not picking on you Charlatan, I agree with what you say. But the double standards (not yours) and the perception of Canadians is defined in your words. Good Lord, the Liberals have been kissing the Blocs ass for ever, giving into almost every whim yet the Tories try and defeat the budget with the Bloc (who are only in it for themselves,...they don't care who is in power ass long as the cookie jar stays full) and are accused of trying to ruin Canada. Unreal.

I agree Harper won't win anything but worse I think the Liberals could put a monkey in as leader and still win. I don't know anymore. Either I am so out of the loop and stupid beyond reason, or simply an anomoly, and one who is tired of paying taxes while my money get's wasted. Maybe starting next year I won't pay taxes anymore. Then I could buy that Lexus I test drove on the weekend. And paper trail? What paper trail?

edit- And the Tories are as much of a national party as the Liberals are. If it weren't for Ontario, the liberals would be even more meager than the NDP.

Charlatan · 05-24-2005, 01:17 PM

I have no issue with the Conservatives forcing an election... any time but now. I do not want them to force an election based on the Gomery commission when Gomery hasn't even finished, and I think that is generally how most people feel.

Most people are all fired up about Adscam. Most want to see the crooks brought to justice BUT they want the whole picture. The Conservatives came off as opportunistic in a bad way. They reacting in a knee-jerk fashion rather than just waiting patiently for the final verdict.

I also think that most people believed that an election would provide us with just about the same sort of situation as we are in right now.

Oddly, what seems to be happening is that the Conservatives have come to represent much of Rural Canada vs. the Liberals representing an more Urban base.

OFKU0 · 05-24-2005, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlatan

Oddly, what seems to be happening is that the Conservatives have come to represent much of Rural Canada vs. the Liberals representing an more Urban base.

It's nothing new. Been going on forever. I like the rural/urban thing though. Rural = sheep,...Urban = monkey's in the zoo. What to do.

Yakk · 05-26-2005, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sticky

Too bad though.
You are not going to get what you are paying for as long as there is a minority gov't.

I don't want a majority government either. =)

I'm picky.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OFKU0

And to run the country we need a prime minister and his party to show leadership and a vision which has been sorely lacking for many years now.

Nope, I'm happy with an adminstrator running the country.

Quote:

And further, we need the countries people to hold ineffective regimes accountable and make them responsible to us, not to their own special interests,....that is if we can stay awake long enough to give a shit.

What was the poll a few days ago. 68% of people think Martin is lying and knew about the sponsorship scandal,...yet when asked if Martin is doing a good job, about the same percentage agreed he was doing a good job. Can't get more blunt than that!

I consider balancing the budget and social issues to be more important than a relatively small amount of money spent poorly on national unity.

Canada’s debt-to-GDP (gross domestic product) ratio is expected to decline to 38.8 per cent in 2004-05, down from 68.4 per cent in 1995-96.

Canada's GDP is 1 trillion dollars.
30% of that is 300 billion dollars. That's a fuckton of fiscal responsibility.

0.1% of that is the highest figure I've seen for the sponsorship scandal. I want to see the Gomrey inquiry and the criminal trials go forward.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sticky

The Tories (unless I missed something) did not give anything (or promise) anything to the Bloc. They don't need to give anything becuase the Bloc is going to vote the same way as them on bringing down the gov't. In fact, Harper haters should give the bloc credit in that they would probably not take anything from the Tories even if they did promise it.

I think you overestimate the Bloc's adherance to their seperatist credo.

OFKU0 · 05-26-2005, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yakk

I consider balancing the budget and social issues to be more important than a relatively small amount of money spent poorly on national unity.

Canada’s debt-to-GDP (gross domestic product) ratio is expected to decline to 38.8 per cent in 2004-05, down from 68.4 per cent in 1995-96.

Canada's GDP is 1 trillion dollars.
30% of that is 300 billion dollars. That's a fuckton of fiscal responsibility.

0.1% of that is the highest figure I've seen for the sponsorship scandal. I want to see the Gomrey inquiry and the criminal trials go forward.

It still doesn't make make fraud, corruption, lies and slander, exorbitant levels of mismanagement and general incompetance acceptable. Ask me how much I pay in taxes every year? That might explain my angst somewhat.

Charlatan · 05-27-2005, 05:26 AM

I don't think people are saying that the incompetance is acceptable. The problem is until Gomery is done we don't know for sure how deep the corruption goes. Was this just a certain group of the Quebec wing of the Liberals (the ones who are going to go to jail, are no longer in office and/or will get handed their ass come next election) or does it go deeper and effect ALL Liberals.

Give us the full picture and then we can judge.

Then we can make Jack Layton the new PM... :P

OFKU0 · 05-27-2005, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlatan

I don't think people are saying that the incompetance is acceptable. The problem is until Gomery is done we don't know for sure how deep the corruption goes. Was this just a certain group of the Quebec wing of the Liberals (the ones who are going to go to jail, are no longer in office and/or will get handed their ass come next election) or does it go deeper and effect ALL Liberals.

Give us the full picture and then we can judge.

Then we can make Jack Layton the new PM... :P

I'll accept that. The problem I have though is first it was Chretien, then Gagliano who wanted to shut down the inquiry. Makes me wonder why.

As for Gomery, I have lost all faith in the precedings and really feel nothing will come about, and if something does, it will be minor characters that get shafted. We have Corriveau who stated he directly spoke with Chretien about sponsorships and who and where should get what.

But more importantly this past week, we had the judge himself saying that the testimony of Breault, the guy who is fingering peoples involvement, showing a money trail of corruption etc,...that his testimony has yet to be proven. What the fuck. We have a line up of people saying,..."I don't recall, I don't remember, I'm not aware, and on and on and on,...yet the guy who is spilling the beans is being questioned about his validity. Fuck off.

I can see why people will lie or just "not recall" to save their asses but why would a guy seemingly tell the truth and potential ruin his career, just to be lying about the supposed truth? It just doesn't add up.

And I'll say it again, nothing of any substance will come of this inquiry. Oh wait,..one thing will. The Tories will be blamed for the 32 million wasted money for pushing for an inquiry in the first place. Incidentally, did any one else hear of more Liberal lies this week when it was stated that the inquiry has costed 72 million? And it was Gomery who himself who said they are still under the 32 million budget. T.v and papers picked up on the exorbitant 72 figure of waste, but never retracted. No wonder most people don't know what the fuck is going on.

splck · 05-27-2005, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OFKU0

And I'll say it again, nothing of any substance will come of this inquiry. .

I agree. With this line in the terms of reference " the Commissioner be directed to perform his duties without expressing any conclusion or recommendation regarding the civil or criminal liability of any person or organization..", this inquiry will be a non-event.

Charlatan · 05-27-2005, 09:48 AM

If nothing comes of this I will be more than pissed. But then again, I don't vote Liberal anyway.

There is definately something going on behind the scenes with Galliano and Chretien trying to remove Gomery and with the leaks of overspending... smells fishy anyway.

Janey · 05-30-2005, 08:15 AM

yup. Gomery should stay. those under investigation shouldn't be trying to alter the inquiry.

Charlatan · 09-23-2005, 11:20 AM

I find it very interesting how the furor over Gomery has been practically silenced...

I know we are all supposed to be waiting until the big finish and the following election but there was barely a blip in the media when the inquiry wrapped a short while ago.

BigBen · 09-28-2005, 10:53 AM

That's Canadian politics for you...

We get really pissed, then we forget about how bad the politicians are when it comes time to vote because they pull the "My Opposition will break up the country" card on us.

I want the person's voting record made public (as in published in my newspaper public, not 'Available at the Library' public) and hold them accountable for the shit they did in office.

I thought that the BC voting system would have been cool if it would have been voted in.

Charlatan · 09-28-2005, 11:07 AM

I realized agout 20 mins after posting this that the reason all had been quiet was because the Parliament has not been sitting all summer... I am sure the cages will start rattling again now that they are back in session.

splck · 09-28-2005, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBen931

I thought that the BC voting system would have been cool if it would have been voted in.

Don't give up it yet. The Gov is still going to try again for a change in the voting system.

As for the thread topic.... Central Canada will be lulled into thinking the Liberals can do no harm and life will continue as we know it with a re-elected Martin spouting off how he has the confidence of Canadians.

Basically, nothing of substance is going to happen despite the inquiry.

skier · 09-28-2005, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlatan

when the inquiry wrapped a short while ago.

i'm sorta confused.. I thought the gomery inquiry goes until the end of may '06. Anyone know the results of the inquiry if it's all wrapped up?

Charlatan · 09-28-2005, 02:41 PM

I think the hearings are wrapped. The deliberations will take some time. This is pretty standard. It allows the judge and his support staff the time to examine all the testimony as well as write the report, which will likely be a book of some weight.

skier · 10-01-2005, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlatan

I think the hearings are wrapped. The deliberations will take some time. This is pretty standard. It allows the judge and his support staff the time to examine all the testimony as well as write the report, which will likely be a book of some weight.

Thank you. That clears up a lot of things for me

Charlatan · 11-25-2005, 01:26 PM

Well, I guess the answer the my question is yes...

It looks like we will have an election sometime near the end of December. Harper put a motion of non-confidence forward in the house yesterday and it was seconded by Layton. The vote will be held early next week.

I honestly think this is the right thing to do. After the revelations of the Gomery part one, I don't feel there is any reason to keep the Liberals out of an election.

I am doubly pissed that they are digging their heels in and refusing to take the compromise offered by Layton and supported by the entire opposition to post-pone the election call until January. I think Martin and his strategists think they can earn points blaming the opposition for calling an election during the holidays... Phooey.

This government is toast... they know it, we know it. I think they would have gained more points in taking a consiliatory position. Gomery was damning. The only reason they want to hang on until February, when Gomery part 2 comes out is that it will give them more time to spin in their own favour and more importantly to spend the surplus...

The Liberals are acting like a husband caught cheating... Maybe if I buy the wife a diamond necklace she will forget about my indescretions. Fat chance buddy.

highthief · 11-26-2005, 05:54 AM

Layton was a wimp for trying to circumnavigate established parliamentary protocols and both the NDP and Conservatives missed the boat here - it just gave Martin a chance to put his spending and tax breaks out there in time for Christmas, We're going to end up right where we started, a Liberal minority government with either Whacky Jacky or the damn seperatists holding the actual reins of power.

If only the conservatives would replace Harper with someone with leadership skills, they might have a chance to win - but apparently they like finishing second.

05-12-2005, 10:27 AM	#82 (permalink)
Yakk Wehret Den Anfängen! Location: Ontario, Canada	I don't pay my politicians for enternatainment or excitement. I pay them to run the god damn country. __________________ Last edited by JHVH : 10-29-4004 BC at 09:00 PM. Reason: Time for a rest.

05-12-2005, 12:43 PM	#83 (permalink)
BigBen Comedian Location: Use the search button	Is it true that the Liberals are waiting for "Their" confidence vote until next week because they know that there is a BC torie that needs cancer surgery and he won't vote? That is just low, to wait until the big C takes out your competition. The GG should stop this mess. __________________ 3.141592654 Hey, if you are impressed with my memorizing pi to 10 digits, you should see the size of my penis.

05-13-2005, 03:45 AM	#87 (permalink)
silent_jay Her Jay Location: Ontario for now....	Seems to be the Harper special, he doesn't know when to shut up when things are going his way, he keeps pushing and pushing. __________________ Absence makes the heart grow fonder

05-15-2005, 07:55 AM	#96 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	I don't think the issue is the Bloc being in bed with anyone rather the issue is who is in bed with the Bloc... Sure Harper is getting what he wants by climbing into bed with the Bloc but after getting what he wants it is going to be an uncomfortable walk of shame in the morning... __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

05-16-2005, 10:17 AM	#99 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	The reason is just as you stated... Harper wants to be PM. He thinks he can get at least a minority government out this election or he would be having us go to the polls only a year after the last election. Sticky... that is a good point. Harper may not be in bed with the Bloc... that said I wouldn't put it past them to agree to do this but not advertise the fact. And the fact that I am thinking this means a lot of others are probably doing the same... __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

05-13-2005, 08:48 AM	#89 (permalink)
Janey Junkie Location: Toronto	take my nephew as a case in point: he gets an allowance from his dad, which is very big because he handles the household bills too. He lies to his dad about where he spends his allowance, a lot of it going into his pocket. But at work he is one of the high performers, and gets excellent reviews. Plus he does a good job about managing the household bills. I know he is lying, but I also know he is doing a good job.

05-13-2005, 09:02 AM	#90 (permalink)
Powderedmaggot Banned	I think this guy will bring down the liberals on May 19th. He reminds me a bit of George Carlin.

05-14-2005, 04:00 AM	#94 (permalink)
Janey Junkie Location: Toronto	you hit it OFKUO. The west may whine and complain that their votes don't count (but really that's an old song, and will always be the case until population distribution evens out. And with BC voting liberal provincially, it looks like Conservative (reform) is the odd party out) I can't standh ow people dont vote. I also can't stand how people ALWAYS forget how the Liberals cam into power in the first place: years and years of PC Federal party rule that was the most reviled in Canadian history, so much so, that their party status was eliminated. I have never missed voting and have cast for NDP, PC & Liberal in the past (because I am an Issue voter). These non voters revile me tho. ( I don't know about the liberals being in bed wiht the Bloc tho, I have a feeling that rhetoric is starting to hold sway).

05-15-2005, 07:18 AM	#95 (permalink)
Sticky	I agree, I con't stand when people don't vote and try to justify it by saying that their vote doesn't really count anyway. As for the Bloc being in bed with anybody. I said it earlier. Let's not kid ourselves. The Bloc just like any other party is in this for themselves. They are not in bed with anybody they are just doing what is going to serve their purpose the best. __________________ Sticky The Stickman

05-16-2005, 09:06 AM	#97 (permalink)
Sticky	I understand what you are saying, what I mean is that nobody is in bed with the Bloc. The Liberals are in bed with the NDP. They had to bend over...I mean give something to the NDP to get them to go along with them. The Tories (unless I missed something) did not give anything (or promise) anything to the Bloc. They don't need to give anything becuase the Bloc is going to vote the same way as them on bringing down the gov't. In fact, Harper haters should give the bloc credit in that they would probably not take anything from the Tories even if they did promise it. I guess the way that I think of being in bed is having some type of deal. __________________ Sticky The Stickman

05-16-2005, 09:20 AM	#98 (permalink)
Janey Junkie Location: Toronto	you're probably right. another example of how rhetoric is getting away from us. We automatically assume that because Harper has made statements of how his partywill vote alongside the Bloc to bring down the government, that he is making deals with them. This is most likely not the case. I wonder why the Liberals didn't attempt coallition with the Conservatives as they did with the NDP? At any rate, I think that Harper actually wants to be PM, otherwise he would be working with the Government to get legislation passed that the Conservatives actually would like to see. just like the NDP has managed to do.

05-24-2005, 11:58 AM	#101 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	Apparently the voters have bigger concerns than 355 million... I don't believe it is simply rhetoric that is preventing them from voting other than Liberal... People are pissed to be sure. The Liberals will feel the sting of their actions in Quebec. I predict they loose many of the 21 seats they hold in Quebec. Until Gomery is done we don't really know how far up the scandal goes (i.e. what did Martin know) or if it touches Liberals outside of Quebec (this is important in Ontario). Until the Conservatives can mount a truly national party you can forget about them getting anything more than a weak minority. I say weak because who will support them? The Liberals? The NDP? The Bloc? If they win a minority I would count on a new election as soon as the Liberals can elect a new leader and clean house... 18 months, tops. __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

05-24-2005, 01:17 PM	#103 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	I have no issue with the Conservatives forcing an election... any time but now. I do not want them to force an election based on the Gomery commission when Gomery hasn't even finished, and I think that is generally how most people feel. Most people are all fired up about Adscam. Most want to see the crooks brought to justice BUT they want the whole picture. The Conservatives came off as opportunistic in a bad way. They reacting in a knee-jerk fashion rather than just waiting patiently for the final verdict. I also think that most people believed that an election would provide us with just about the same sort of situation as we are in right now. Oddly, what seems to be happening is that the Conservatives have come to represent much of Rural Canada vs. the Liberals representing an more Urban base. __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

05-27-2005, 05:26 AM	#107 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	I don't think people are saying that the incompetance is acceptable. The problem is until Gomery is done we don't know for sure how deep the corruption goes. Was this just a certain group of the Quebec wing of the Liberals (the ones who are going to go to jail, are no longer in office and/or will get handed their ass come next election) or does it go deeper and effect ALL Liberals. Give us the full picture and then we can judge. Then we can make Jack Layton the new PM... :P __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

05-27-2005, 09:48 AM	#110 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	If nothing comes of this I will be more than pissed. But then again, I don't vote Liberal anyway. There is definately something going on behind the scenes with Galliano and Chretien trying to remove Gomery and with the leaks of overspending... smells fishy anyway. __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

05-30-2005, 08:15 AM	#111 (permalink)
Janey Junkie Location: Toronto	yup. Gomery should stay. those under investigation shouldn't be trying to alter the inquiry.

09-23-2005, 11:20 AM	#112 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	I find it very interesting how the furor over Gomery has been practically silenced... I know we are all supposed to be waiting until the big finish and the following election but there was barely a blip in the media when the inquiry wrapped a short while ago. __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

09-28-2005, 10:53 AM	#113 (permalink)
BigBen Comedian Location: Use the search button	That's Canadian politics for you... We get really pissed, then we forget about how bad the politicians are when it comes time to vote because they pull the "My Opposition will break up the country" card on us. I want the person's voting record made public (as in published in my newspaper public, not 'Available at the Library' public) and hold them accountable for the shit they did in office. I thought that the BC voting system would have been cool if it would have been voted in. __________________ 3.141592654 Hey, if you are impressed with my memorizing pi to 10 digits, you should see the size of my penis.

09-28-2005, 11:07 AM	#114 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	I realized agout 20 mins after posting this that the reason all had been quiet was because the Parliament has not been sitting all summer... I am sure the cages will start rattling again now that they are back in session. __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

09-28-2005, 02:41 PM	#117 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	I think the hearings are wrapped. The deliberations will take some time. This is pretty standard. It allows the judge and his support staff the time to examine all the testimony as well as write the report, which will likely be a book of some weight. __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

11-25-2005, 01:26 PM	#119 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	Well, I guess the answer the my question is yes... It looks like we will have an election sometime near the end of December. Harper put a motion of non-confidence forward in the house yesterday and it was seconded by Layton. The vote will be held early next week. I honestly think this is the right thing to do. After the revelations of the Gomery part one, I don't feel there is any reason to keep the Liberals out of an election. I am doubly pissed that they are digging their heels in and refusing to take the compromise offered by Layton and supported by the entire opposition to post-pone the election call until January. I think Martin and his strategists think they can earn points blaming the opposition for calling an election during the holidays... Phooey. This government is toast... they know it, we know it. I think they would have gained more points in taking a consiliatory position. Gomery was damning. The only reason they want to hang on until February, when Gomery part 2 comes out is that it will give them more time to spin in their own favour and more importantly to spend the surplus... The Liberals are acting like a husband caught cheating... Maybe if I buy the wife a diamond necklace she will forget about my indescretions. Fat chance buddy. __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

11-26-2005, 05:54 AM	#120 (permalink)
highthief Junkie Location: Ontario, Canada	Layton was a wimp for trying to circumnavigate established parliamentary protocols and both the NDP and Conservatives missed the boat here - it just gave Martin a chance to put his spending and tax breaks out there in time for Christmas, We're going to end up right where we started, a Liberal minority government with either Whacky Jacky or the damn seperatists holding the actual reins of power. If only the conservatives would replace Harper with someone with leadership skills, they might have a chance to win - but apparently they like finishing second. __________________ Si vis pacem parabellum.