Nice to see someone asking the tough questions - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

samcol · 03-24-2005, 06:38 PM

I'm glad there's at least one member of congress has the courage to stand up to this administration.

Representative Cynthia McKinney Grills Rumsfeld On Dyncorp Sex Rings, Missing Pentagon Trillions & 9/11 Wargames

I can already hear the Neo-con talk shows bashing her tomorrow. I'm not even a Democrat but the level of corruption in the government is disgusting.

Fourtyrulz · 03-24-2005, 08:22 PM

Rummy and Jones were completely intellectually bankrupt with no answers to her scathing questions. They just sat there and looked stunned. Must have taken some serious cojones on McKinney's part. *applause*

ObieX · 03-25-2005, 12:23 AM

She's in for it now lol. It's about time someone started asking questions though, i mean seriously. That pentagon thing is disturbing. I can't even understand losing $1 trillion, how can $3 trillion happen? A TRILLION dollars is a lot of fucking money.

I most especially enjoyed how she pressed the questions and tried to make them answer them instead of wiggling away. I wonder if she'll get that written response, and if she'll be back next time asking the same questions again because she never recieved any answers. I suspect one of the questions on her next turn will be something along the lines of "well, when WERE you planning on going back and checking that?"

pan6467 · 03-25-2005, 01:22 AM

Damna lot of hemming and hawing and um's and circle talk and stuttering.....

This lady is making a name for herself fast.....

"Um.... ahhh....I've forgotten what the second question was????????".....LOL........

"I would rather not name the corporations contracted....."
"are they priveleged information?"
"NO"

Russian bomber activity??????

Damn this chairman is even trying to give them an out and they are plugging along digging deeper.

wow if the Dems don't jump on this and all of them start asking then they are missing a great oppurtunity.

If I were a Dem senator or REp I'd be on every tv show asking these questions, I'd be stumping at home asking these questions.......... demanding answers and not easing up.

DON'T LET THIS DIE KEEP PRESSING

jorgelito · 03-25-2005, 01:54 AM

And if I were a Republican senator or rep I would be asking these questions.

Shit, I annot believe it (well I guess I can). That lady should be a hero, Medal of Honor what-not. That takes guts.

I can't believe people aren't outraged but they get all worked up over a bj in the Oval Office....?

And yet again it appears the media has dropped the ball on this. Where's the coverage? I mean mainstream media.

host · 03-25-2005, 03:22 AM

Maybe you have not heard of Cynthia Mckinney before, but I can assure you that she is up against formidable odds against rehabilitating her reputation after saying a bit too much that shocked the establishment about three years ago. She was the target of a campaign by Republicans in her Atlanta congressional district in the pre-election primary in 2002. Republican strategy was to take advantage of local laws that allowed them to vote for her democratic opponent for the nomination for the congressional seat against a local judge, also a female black democrat, in a heavily democratic district, Denise Majette. With the added votes of the Republicans urged to vote for her and against Cynthia, Majette unseated Cynthia Mckinney, and the Republicans congratulated themselves on their shrewdness and Cynthia was paid back for accusing the Bush administration of complicity and personal enrichment in the 9/11 attacks.

Cythia is back in congress because Majette gave up the seat to run unsuccessfully for a U.S. Senate seat against Republican Johnny Isakson.
Majette could not prevail over Isakson even though she documented his past unethical conflict of interests and accusations that he reaped a $500,000 profit as a result:<a href="http://www.majetteforsenate.org/newsroom_print.asp?id=139">http://www.majetteforsenate.org/newsroom_print.asp?id=139</a>

Republicans are not intimidated by Cytnhia Mckinney because they did an <a href="http://www.nationalreview.com/goldberg/goldberg041202.asp">admirable job</a> of portraying her as a tin foil hat lunatic, so don't get your hopes up, now. She made the mistake of making outrageous (in their minds)public accusations against Bush that she was unable to back up at the time:

Quote:

<a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A34565-2002Apr11?language=printer">http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A34565-2002Apr11?language=printer</a>
Democrat Implies Sept. 11 Administration Plot

By Juliet Eilperin
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, April 12, 2002; Page A16

Rep. Cynthia McKinney (D-Ga.) is calling for an investigation into whether President Bush and other government officials had advance notice of terrorist attacks on Sept. 11 but did nothing to prevent them. She added that "persons close to this administration are poised to make huge profits off America's new war."

In a recent interview with a Berkeley, Calif., radio station, McKinney said: "We know there were numerous warnings of the events to come on September 11th. . . . What did this administration know and when did it know it, about the events of September 11th? Who else knew, and why did they not warn the innocent people of New York who were needlessly murdered? . . . What do they have to hide?"

McKinney declined to be interviewed yesterday, but she issued a statement saying: "I am not aware of any evidence showing that President Bush or members of his administration have personally profited from the attacks of 9-11. A complete investigation might reveal that to be the case."

Bush spokesman Scott McLellan dismissed McKinney's comments.

"The American people know the facts, and they dismiss such ludicrous, baseless views," he said. "The fact that she questions the president's legitimacy shows a partisan mind-set beyond all reason."

In the radio conversation, McKinney delivered a stinging attack on the administration. In 2000, she charged, Bush forces "stole from America our most precious right of all, the right to free and fair elections." With the September attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon and in Pennsylvania, McKinney said, "an administration of questionable legitimacy has been given unprecedented power."

She suggested that the administration was serving the interests of a Washington-based investment firm, the Carlyle Group, which employs a number of high-ranking former government officials from both parties. Former president George H.W. Bush -- the current president's father -- is an adviser to the firm. McKinney said the war on terrorism has enriched Carlyle Group investors by enhancing the value of a military contractor partly owned by the firm.

Carlyle Group spokesman Chris Ullman asked: "Did she say these things while standing on a grassy knoll in Roswell, New Mexico?"

During her five terms in office, McKinney has often given voice to radical critiques of U.S. policy, especially in the Middle East. She defied the State Department to investigate assertions that international sanctions are brutalizing innocent Iraqis.

With her comments concerning Sept. 11, McKinney, 47, seems to have tapped into a web of conspiracy theories circulating during the past six months among people who believe that the government is partially -- or entirely -- to blame for last year's attacks, which killed more than 3,000 people.

"What is undeniable is that corporations close to the administration have directly benefited from the increased defense spending arising from the aftermath of September 11th," McKinney charged. "America's credibility, both with the world and with her own people, rests upon securing credible answers to these questions."

None of McKinney's colleagues has embraced her allegations, but a few said they are familiar with the theories.

"I've heard a number of people say it," said Rep. Melvin Watt (D-N.C.), who quickly added, "I can't say that it would be a widely held view" among lawmakers.

Some lawmakers have a less charitable view of McKinney's penchant for publicity. Rep. Johnny Isakson (R-Ga.) said McKinney is simply trying to impress her constituents.

"She's demonstrated at home an ability to win," he said, "and she's demonstrated in Washington a total lack of responsibility in her statements."

Rep. Jack Kingston (R-Ga.), a friend of McKinney's, said the Georgia Democrat is adept at seizing on "red-meat" issues that resonate with her political base and have helped her fend off a series of GOP challengers.

"She's not as random as people think," Kingston said. "People always want to hear a political conspiracy theory."

Do not misunderstand me......I believe that there are ways to discredit the
more outlandish Bush regime's post 9/11 claims, using their own speeches and press releases:

Quote:

04-19-02 FBI Director Mueller said, "The hijackers also left no paper trail. In our investigation, we have not uncovered a single piece of paper – either here in the U.S. or in the treasure trove of information that has turned up in Afghanistan and elsewhere – that mentioned any aspect of the September 11th plot" <a href="http://www.fbi.gov/pressrel/speeches/speech041902.htm">http://www.fbi.gov/pressrel/speeches/speech041902.htm</a>

<b>There are 25 more links that call official Bush admin. and other assertions by government officials about 9/11 at the link below:</b>

<a href="http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?p=1623669&highlight=mueller+passport+atta#post1623669">http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?p=1623669&highlight=mueller+passport+atta#post1623669</a>

smooth · 03-25-2005, 03:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jorgelito

Where's the coverage? I mean mainstream media.

Shiavo.

things that ought to make one go hmmmm....

samcol · 03-25-2005, 06:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pan6467

wow if the Dems don't jump on this and all of them start asking then they are missing a great oppurtunity.

If I were a Dem senator or REp I'd be on every tv show asking these questions, I'd be stumping at home asking these questions.......... demanding answers and not easing up.

Yes, why aren't republicans or democrats making this a huge issue? Especially democrats. When they have someone step up and be a leader no one follows them.

3 TRILLION MISSING
They debate ferociously about mere billions, yet won't even touch talking about trillions. This country is in a sad state.

VARIETY · 03-25-2005, 06:49 AM

No one has paid any attention to Cynthia McKinney since the Saudis bought her off.

This is just one more of her pathetic attempts to draw attention to herself.

samcol · 03-25-2005, 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VARIETY

No one has paid any attention to Cynthia McKinney since the Saudis bought her off.

This is just one more of her pathetic attempts to draw attention to herself.

Ya I guess your right, it should be acceptable to loose track of 3 trillion dollars. Don't question government.

Manx · 03-25-2005, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VARIETY

No one has paid any attention to Cynthia McKinney since the Saudis bought her off.

Haha! That one made me laugh.

The_Dunedan · 03-25-2005, 08:30 AM

This woman, along with Rep. Ron Paul of Texas, deserves a medal. She and Rep. Paul are the only non-traitors in that whole bunch; I'm amazed either of them has lived this long ( politically and literally ).

Lebell · 03-25-2005, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by host

*snip*

Thank you for reminding me who this nut is. I had forgotten that.

The_wall · 03-25-2005, 09:43 AM

Ah yes call her crazy and ignore her arguments.

NCB · 03-25-2005, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_wall

Ah yes call her crazy and ignore her litaney of complaints.

FTFY

I didn't hear alot of solutions or suggestions in that piece.

dksuddeth · 03-25-2005, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NCB

FTFY

I didn't hear alot of solutions or suggestions in that piece.

I never realized that it was anyones responsibility to find a solution for someone elses possibly criminal acts.

pig · 03-25-2005, 02:09 PM

Man, I'm so behind the chat speak thing. What is FTFY?

Oh yeah, actual discussion - $3 trillion. That's only like 12 zeros - no big deal. Our government isn't hurting for $$$ right now or anything, right? Slave trade, smave trade - seriously - human trafficking is really pretty common. I mean, if we were to really throw all the hypocrites out of government, I suspect there wouldn't be too many people left. I think they call quasi-controlled hypocracy with $$$ attached to it politics, no?

edit ok, that probably sounds a little frustrated. Well, welcome to my world. no offense to anyone, i'll cut the post if desired.

samcol · 03-25-2005, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pigglet

Man, I'm so behind the chat speak thing. What is FTFY?

Oh yeah, actual discussion - $3 trillion. That's only like 12 zeros - no big deal. Our government isn't hurting for $$$ right now or anything, right? Slave trade, smave trade - seriously - human trafficking is really pretty common. I mean, if we were to really throw all the hypocrites out of government, I suspect there wouldn't be too many people left. I think they call quasi-controlled hypocracy with $$$ attached to it politics, no?

edit ok, that probably sounds a little frustrated. Well, welcome to my world. no offense to anyone, i'll cut the post if desired.

Don't cut it. It almost hurts to think about 3 trillion missing. This years budget is like 2.6 trillion? The Pentagon is missing more money than the current budget, and the response is just basically OOPS...

Lebell · 03-25-2005, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_wall

Ah yes call her crazy and ignore her arguments.

Oh, she may have some legit beefs...even a broken clock is right twice a day.

But I place extra burden of proof on someone who has proven to be a nut.

pig · 03-25-2005, 02:33 PM

well, i'm sure they didn't mean to...

seriously, don't you get a receipt with that kind of thing? if i find out they're not funnelling that money to insurgency groups to destabilize lebanon, or fight insurgents in iraq / n. korea / columbia something, i'll be might sore. i mean, we could probably feed the homeless or buy a bunch of kids clothes or something stupid with that money. just tans my hide.

pig · 03-25-2005, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lebell

But I place extra burden of proof on someone who has proven to be a nut.

I don't care if she's as crazy as all get out...if I asked Rumsfeld "Where were you on Oct. 12, 2004 at precisely 2:16:24 pm?" and he fumbled, well then ok. If I say "And what about that 3 trillion bucks" on live TV and he says "Ooohhh...look over there. How about a fistful of I don't know..." then I start to get a little queasy. I can't view the reel - I'm just going off the description.

Coppertop · 03-25-2005, 03:22 PM

I installed RealPlayer to watch that? I feel so used...

I was expecting something more... meaty, I guess. Glad to see Rummy "forgets" things like the rest of us, however.

NCB · 03-25-2005, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dksuddeth

I never realized that it was anyones responsibility to find a solution for someone elses possibly criminal acts.

She's a congresswoman, that is precisely her job. The make law, call hearings, hold debates, ect.....

You want someone who finally asks tough questions? I'll volunteer.

What was the last Dem solution to any problem? What was their last legislative intiative and where did it go?

Manx · 03-25-2005, 04:04 PM

I always found it rather difficult to solve a problem if I couldn't even get any information on what the problem was or details on what it was producing.

Here's a "new idea":

Fire Rumsfeld. That will definitely solve the problem we are having in getting Rumsfeld to answer questions.

samcol · 03-25-2005, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NCB

She's a congresswoman, that is precisely her job. The make law, call hearings, hold debates, ect.....

She's essentially what every other Dem in the Congress is. Someone who critiques, but offer no new ideas. What was the last Dem solution to any problem? What was their last legislative intiative and where did it go?

How is this even remotely related to her being a democrat? Since she doesn't offer a solution it's ok for this train wreck to continue? The Pentagon can waste trillions, give money to companies involved in sex slave trading, and continue to lie about the events of 9/11. After all I heard Bush and Condi say they never thought planes could be used as missles. Yet Myers admits we were running four drills on 9/11 related to flying hijacked planes into buildings.

Real conservatives need to wake up to the illusion that this administration is somehow conservative. If someone from the democratic party does something that is right or wrong, it's our job to point it out. Likewise, if someone from the republican party says something that's right or wrong it's our job to point it out. Things in this country will not get better unless people can stop playing this left vs. right game.

NCB · 03-25-2005, 04:14 PM

Ok, Dyncorp is a company that provides small pox immunizations and other immunzations for our troops. Now if we cut them loose, who will provide the shots? Who will be able to match Dyncorps turna around time and supply? Will their product be as good?

Answer those questions, and I'll help y'all petition for a change in contractors.

pig · 03-25-2005, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NCB

Ok, Dyncorp is a company that provides small pox immunizations and other immunzations for our troops. Now if we cut them loose, who will provide the shots? Who will be able to match Dyncorps turna around time and supply? Will their product be as good?

Answer those questions, and I'll help y'all petition for a change in contractors.

Hey, at least the right questions are finally being asked. That's an improvement. I'm pretty much staying out of the fiasco that the Politics threads normally become, save for some obvious exceptions - so I don't plan to exhaustively follow this thread. However, I'll back up samcol's assertion that adherance to party line politics is more apt to complicate matters than really tend towards understanding / discussion of solutions. I mean, if you can let your hair down somewhere and break out into new modes of thought, I would think the old anonymous internet would be a pretty good place.

jorgelito · 03-25-2005, 04:46 PM

The question remains: Where is the money? What happened? This is kinda like that $27.5 million shipping charge from the other thread.

I am shocked: as a conservative I feel deeply betrayed. I thought Republicans and conservatives were supposed top be fiscally prudent and conservative. I also thought they were supposed to be savy financial managers. This is a deep betrayal.

NCB, you want solutions? ME too. I suggest common sense and fiscal prudence. Is it that hard? Granted. I'm not a politician so maybe it really is that hard. But still, it's like when Arnold said he was going to "clean house" and find all this waste. I was like, "yeah, here we go,now we're talking. But it turns out he's just the same as everyone else. A special interest whore.

3 trillion missing is no small change, it's nothing to shrug our shoulders at. Yet congress voted themselves pay raises 4 years in a row. Unbelievable.

NCB · 03-25-2005, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jorgelito

NCB, you want solutions? ME too. I suggest common sense and fiscal prudence. Is it that hard? Granted. I'm not a politician so maybe it really is that hard. But still, it's like when Arnold said he was going to "clean house" and find all this waste. I was like, "yeah, here we go,now we're talking. But it turns out he's just the same as everyone else. A special interest whore.

3 trillion missing is no small change, it's nothing to shrug our shoulders at. Yet congress voted themselves pay raises 4 years in a row. Unbelievable.

Non-answer. Very compelling on an emotional level, but it doesn't answer the question on McKinney's compalints against Dyncorp.

jorgelito · 03-25-2005, 06:00 PM

Fair enough NCB, but I actually wasn't trying to go for an emotional appeal. Come to think of it, not really sure what I was going for. Anyways...

It's funny, I have the line form "A Few Good Men" going through my head:

"You want answers?!"

"You bet I want answers!"

"You want answers?!

"I want the truth!!"

"You can't handle the truth!"

*giggle*

Ok, so solutions: I guess I don't know enough about it to disseminate a comprehensive answer and solution set. But to start, based off of what I do know:

1. A more transparent bidding process. For example: Is Dynacorp the only company that provides this service? Are they the best? If not, open bids for competitors.

2. Accounting - I would assume that there would be a transparent and thorough accounting to simply see where the money is going etc. Is there "padding" of the bill? are the xpenses "reasonable" (I realize this is subjective but I'm trying my best here ina short amount of time - just showing basic idea not details).

3. Why not reveal the names of corporations in question? If it's not priviledged information like the other congresswoman said so why not? Nothing to hide, then nothing to fear (I think this is another thing that annoys me. The whole dogdiness of it). Transparency lends trust and confidence. Like I mentioned earlier, I'm not a nitpicker or whatever but to me, this sort of "mishandling" is unacceptable (3 trillion,wow!). I tend to prefer to let others do their job.

4. Accountability - Where does the buck stop? Who's in charge? Too much bureaucracy? Too much government? How do you lose the money? (didn't something like this happen in th UN, the worst bureaucracy of them all). So maybe Rums et al really don't know cause it one big mess. If that's the case, then fix the organizatoinal structure so it's clear who responsible for what. In Rums defense, he acknowledged that "what happened - slaves etc" was against US policy and that he was not aware of it. But he insisted that it's not right and they'll look into it.

NCB, this what I meant actually, more or less, when I said "common sense and fiscal prudence." Hope that clears thing a little.

Secondly,

Quote:
Originally Posted by dksuddeth
I never realized that it was anyones responsibility to find a solution for someone elses possibly criminal acts.

She's a congresswoman, that is precisely her job. The make law, call hearings, hold debates, ect.....

You want someone who finally asks tough questions? I'll volunteer.

What was the last Dem solution to any problem? What was their last legislative intiative and where did it go?

I agree that the Congresswoman was doing her job, asking questions etc. Did you not think she was tough enough? What kind of questions would you have asked? I thought she did ok - direct and to the point, respectful and civil. Though I don't really frame these issues along Dems vs Reps. lines.

Hardknock · 03-26-2005, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jorgelito

And if I were a Republican senator or rep I would be asking these questions.

Shit, I annot believe it (well I guess I can). That lady should be a hero, Medal of Honor what-not. That takes guts.

I can't believe people aren't outraged but they get all worked up over a bj in the Oval Office....?

And yet again it appears the media has dropped the ball on this. Where's the coverage? I mean mainstream media.

The media (there's no such thing as a "liberal" media) is owned by corporations that helped get dumbya elected. Twice. That's why there's no coverage my friend. The newscasters on tv read from a prompter for a reason.

dksuddeth · 03-27-2005, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pigglet

I don't care if she's as crazy as all get out...if I asked Rumsfeld "Where were you on Oct. 12, 2004 at precisely 2:16:24 pm?" and he fumbled, well then ok. If I say "And what about that 3 trillion bucks" on live TV and he says "Ooohhh...look over there. How about a fistful of I don't know..." then I start to get a little queasy.

thats great.

pig · 03-27-2005, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dksuddeth

thats great.

I'm just a simple pigglet doing what he can...seriously, this is when they need to hire Ollie North to come on back. That guy was a classic.

Locobot · 03-27-2005, 02:43 PM

oh yeah, 3 trillion that's only $10,000 for every U.S. citizen. Why the big fuss?

pig · 03-27-2005, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locobot

oh yeah, 3 trillion that's only $10,000 for every U.S. citizen. Why the big fuss?

I'd put it a little higher than that per *citizen*. We all know that all of our citizens don't count in any substantial way. Undesirables and all that stuff. Let's just bump it up to about $20,000 / citizen, and take it as a tax-cut. That's when I'll start buying into some trickle-down economics...when I can trickle my ass down to the store and hook up my home recording studio.

/mildly toungue-in-cheek - no corronary reactions required.
/Zig Heil!!!

dksuddeth · 03-27-2005, 06:42 PM

anyone know where there's a transcript of that question and answer session?

samcol · 03-30-2005, 05:12 AM

I just found out some new old news about the trillions missing. Apparently Rumsfeld announced the missing money on none other than 9/10 2001. Now I know not all of you are conspiracy theorists, but what a convienient day to announce it to allow the issue to be swept under the rug for years.

The War on Waste

Quote:

(CBS) On Sept. 10, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld declared war. Not on foreign terrorists, "the adversary's closer to home. It's the Pentagon bureaucracy," he said.

He said money wasted by the military poses a serious threat.

"In fact, it could be said it's a matter of life and death," he said.

Rumsfeld promised change but the next day – Sept. 11-- the world changed and in the rush to fund the war on terrorism, the war on waste seems to have been forgotten.

Just last week President Bush announced, "my 2003 budget calls for more than $48 billion in new defense spending."

More money for the Pentagon, CBS News Correspondent Vince Gonzales reports, while its own auditors admit the military cannot account for 25 percent of what it spends.

"According to some estimates we cannot track $2.3 trillion in transactions," Rumsfeld admitted.

$2.3 trillion — that's $8,000 for every man, woman and child in America. To understand how the Pentagon can lose track of trillions, consider the case of one military accountant who tried to find out what happened to a mere $300 million.

"We know it's gone. But we don't know what they spent it on," said Jim Minnery, Defense Finance and Accounting Service.

Minnery, a former Marine turned whistle-blower, is risking his job by speaking out for the first time about the millions he noticed were missing from one defense agency's balance sheets. Minnery tried to follow the money trail, even crisscrossing the country looking for records.

"The director looked at me and said 'Why do you care about this stuff?' It took me aback, you know? My supervisor asking me why I care about doing a good job," said Minnery.

He was reassigned and says officials then covered up the problem by just writing it off.

"They have to cover it up," he said. "That's where the corruption comes in. They have to cover up the fact that they can't do the job."

The Pentagon's Inspector General "partially substantiated" several of Minnery's allegations but could not prove officials tried "to manipulate the financial statements."

Twenty years ago, Department of Defense Analyst Franklin C. Spinney made headlines exposing what he calls the "accounting games." He's still there, and although he does not speak for the Pentagon, he believes the problem has gotten worse.

"Those numbers are pie in the sky. The books are cooked routinely year after year," he said.

Another critic of Pentagon waste, Retired Vice Admiral Jack Shanahan, commanded the Navy's 2nd Fleet the first time Donald Rumsfeld served as Defense Secretary, in 1976.

In his opinion, "With good financial oversight we could find $48 billion in loose change in that building, without having to hit the taxpayers."

Rigor · 04-01-2005, 10:00 PM

does she have FACTS to back up her claims? hell no! 3 trillion? i heard her state 1999 thats before bush was in office. sex trade? why is it our govts fault if EMPLOYEES of a international company sells sex, its not like the COMPANY is making money or endorsing it as she suggested. she was a crazy back then and still is one now. sure she asked tuff question, but were they based in fact? if so show me them.

samcol · 04-02-2005, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rigor

does she have FACTS to back up her claims? hell no! 3 trillion? i heard her state 1999 thats before bush was in office. sex trade? why is it our govts fault if EMPLOYEES of a international company sells sex, its not like the COMPANY is making money or endorsing it as she suggested. she was a crazy back then and still is one now. sure she asked tuff question, but were they based in fact? if so show me them.

Her questions were based on fact. In the post above yours I quoted:
"According to some estimates we cannot track $2.3 trillion in transactions," Rumsfeld admitted.

Why does it matter that Bush wasn't in office? the Department of Defense is still responsible for it.

03-24-2005, 06:38 PM	#1 (permalink)
samcol Junkie Location: Indiana	Nice to see someone asking the tough questions I'm glad there's at least one member of congress has the courage to stand up to this administration. Representative Cynthia McKinney Grills Rumsfeld On Dyncorp Sex Rings, Missing Pentagon Trillions & 9/11 Wargames I can already hear the Neo-con talk shows bashing her tomorrow. I'm not even a Democrat but the level of corruption in the government is disgusting.

03-24-2005, 08:22 PM	#2 (permalink)
Fourtyrulz Psycho Location: io-where?	Rummy and Jones were completely intellectually bankrupt with no answers to her scathing questions. They just sat there and looked stunned. Must have taken some serious cojones on McKinney's part. applause __________________ the·o·ry - a working hypothesis that is considered probable based on experimental evidence or factual or conceptual analysis and is accepted as a basis for experimentation. faith - Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. - Merriam-Webster's dictionary

03-25-2005, 12:23 AM	#3 (permalink)
ObieX Pickles Location: Shirt and Pants (NJ)	She's in for it now lol. It's about time someone started asking questions though, i mean seriously. That pentagon thing is disturbing. I can't even understand losing $1 trillion, how can $3 trillion happen? A TRILLION dollars is a lot of fucking money. I most especially enjoyed how she pressed the questions and tried to make them answer them instead of wiggling away. I wonder if she'll get that written response, and if she'll be back next time asking the same questions again because she never recieved any answers. I suspect one of the questions on her next turn will be something along the lines of "well, when WERE you planning on going back and checking that?" __________________ We Must Dissent.

03-25-2005, 01:22 AM	#4 (permalink)
pan6467 Lennonite Priest Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA	Damna lot of hemming and hawing and um's and circle talk and stuttering..... This lady is making a name for herself fast..... "Um.... ahhh....I've forgotten what the second question was????????".....LOL........ "I would rather not name the corporations contracted....." "are they priveleged information?" "NO" Russian bomber activity?????? Damn this chairman is even trying to give them an out and they are plugging along digging deeper. wow if the Dems don't jump on this and all of them start asking then they are missing a great oppurtunity. If I were a Dem senator or REp I'd be on every tv show asking these questions, I'd be stumping at home asking these questions.......... demanding answers and not easing up. DON'T LET THIS DIE KEEP PRESSING __________________ I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

03-25-2005, 09:43 AM	#14 (permalink)
The_wall Psycho Location: Rhode Island biatches!	Ah yes call her crazy and ignore her arguments. __________________ "We do what we like and we like what we do!"~andrew Wk Procrastinate now, don't put off to the last minute.

03-25-2005, 01:54 AM	#5 (permalink)
jorgelito All important elusive independent swing voter... Location: People's Republic of KKKalifornia	And if I were a Republican senator or rep I would be asking these questions. Shit, I annot believe it (well I guess I can). That lady should be a hero, Medal of Honor what-not. That takes guts. I can't believe people aren't outraged but they get all worked up over a bj in the Oval Office....? And yet again it appears the media has dropped the ball on this. Where's the coverage? I mean mainstream media.

03-25-2005, 06:49 AM	#9 (permalink)
VARIETY Banned Location: Taxachusetts, USA	No one has paid any attention to Cynthia McKinney since the Saudis bought her off. This is just one more of her pathetic attempts to draw attention to herself.

03-25-2005, 08:30 AM	#12 (permalink)
The_Dunedan Junkie	This woman, along with Rep. Ron Paul of Texas, deserves a medal. She and Rep. Paul are the only non-traitors in that whole bunch; I'm amazed either of them has lived this long ( politically and literally ).

03-25-2005, 02:09 PM	#17 (permalink)
pig pigglet pigglet Location: Locash	Man, I'm so behind the chat speak thing. What is FTFY? Oh yeah, actual discussion - $3 trillion. That's only like 12 zeros - no big deal. Our government isn't hurting for $$$ right now or anything, right? Slave trade, smave trade - seriously - human trafficking is really pretty common. I mean, if we were to really throw all the hypocrites out of government, I suspect there wouldn't be too many people left. I think they call quasi-controlled hypocracy with $$$ attached to it politics, no? edit ok, that probably sounds a little frustrated. Well, welcome to my world. no offense to anyone, i'll cut the post if desired. __________________ You don't love me, you just love my piggy style Last edited by pig; 03-25-2005 at 02:11 PM..

03-25-2005, 02:33 PM	#20 (permalink)
pig pigglet pigglet Location: Locash	well, i'm sure they didn't mean to... seriously, don't you get a receipt with that kind of thing? if i find out they're not funnelling that money to insurgency groups to destabilize lebanon, or fight insurgents in iraq / n. korea / columbia something, i'll be might sore. i mean, we could probably feed the homeless or buy a bunch of kids clothes or something stupid with that money. just tans my hide. __________________ You don't love me, you just love my piggy style

03-25-2005, 03:22 PM	#22 (permalink)
Coppertop Getting Medieval on your ass Location: 13th century Europe	I installed RealPlayer to watch that? I feel so used... I was expecting something more... meaty, I guess. Glad to see Rummy "forgets" things like the rest of us, however.

03-25-2005, 04:04 PM	#24 (permalink)
Manx Loser	I always found it rather difficult to solve a problem if I couldn't even get any information on what the problem was or details on what it was producing. Here's a "new idea": Fire Rumsfeld. That will definitely solve the problem we are having in getting Rumsfeld to answer questions.

03-25-2005, 04:46 PM	#28 (permalink)
jorgelito All important elusive independent swing voter... Location: People's Republic of KKKalifornia	The question remains: Where is the money? What happened? This is kinda like that $27.5 million shipping charge from the other thread. I am shocked: as a conservative I feel deeply betrayed. I thought Republicans and conservatives were supposed top be fiscally prudent and conservative. I also thought they were supposed to be savy financial managers. This is a deep betrayal. NCB, you want solutions? ME too. I suggest common sense and fiscal prudence. Is it that hard? Granted. I'm not a politician so maybe it really is that hard. But still, it's like when Arnold said he was going to "clean house" and find all this waste. I was like, "yeah, here we go,now we're talking. But it turns out he's just the same as everyone else. A special interest whore. 3 trillion missing is no small change, it's nothing to shrug our shoulders at. Yet congress voted themselves pay raises 4 years in a row. Unbelievable.

03-25-2005, 06:00 PM	#30 (permalink)
jorgelito All important elusive independent swing voter... Location: People's Republic of KKKalifornia	Fair enough NCB, but I actually wasn't trying to go for an emotional appeal. Come to think of it, not really sure what I was going for. Anyways... It's funny, I have the line form "A Few Good Men" going through my head: "You want answers?!" "You bet I want answers!" "You want answers?! "I want the truth!!" "You can't handle the truth!" giggle Ok, so solutions: I guess I don't know enough about it to disseminate a comprehensive answer and solution set. But to start, based off of what I do know: 1. A more transparent bidding process. For example: Is Dynacorp the only company that provides this service? Are they the best? If not, open bids for competitors. 2. Accounting - I would assume that there would be a transparent and thorough accounting to simply see where the money is going etc. Is there "padding" of the bill? are the xpenses "reasonable" (I realize this is subjective but I'm trying my best here ina short amount of time - just showing basic idea not details). 3. Why not reveal the names of corporations in question? If it's not priviledged information like the other congresswoman said so why not? Nothing to hide, then nothing to fear (I think this is another thing that annoys me. The whole dogdiness of it). Transparency lends trust and confidence. Like I mentioned earlier, I'm not a nitpicker or whatever but to me, this sort of "mishandling" is unacceptable (3 trillion,wow!). I tend to prefer to let others do their job. 4. Accountability - Where does the buck stop? Who's in charge? Too much bureaucracy? Too much government? How do you lose the money? (didn't something like this happen in th UN, the worst bureaucracy of them all). So maybe Rums et al really don't know cause it one big mess. If that's the case, then fix the organizatoinal structure so it's clear who responsible for what. In Rums defense, he acknowledged that "what happened - slaves etc" was against US policy and that he was not aware of it. But he insisted that it's not right and they'll look into it. NCB, this what I meant actually, more or less, when I said "common sense and fiscal prudence." Hope that clears thing a little. Secondly, Quote: Originally Posted by dksuddeth I never realized that it was anyones responsibility to find a solution for someone elses possibly criminal acts. She's a congresswoman, that is precisely her job. The make law, call hearings, hold debates, ect..... You want someone who finally asks tough questions? I'll volunteer. What was the last Dem solution to any problem? What was their last legislative intiative and where did it go? I agree that the Congresswoman was doing her job, asking questions etc. Did you not think she was tough enough? What kind of questions would you have asked? I thought she did ok - direct and to the point, respectful and civil. Though I don't really frame these issues along Dems vs Reps. lines. Last edited by jorgelito; 03-25-2005 at 06:01 PM.. Reason: Having problems with "quoting" correctly...

03-27-2005, 02:43 PM	#34 (permalink)
Locobot is awesome!	oh yeah, 3 trillion that's only $10,000 for every U.S. citizen. Why the big fuss?

03-27-2005, 06:42 PM	#36 (permalink)
dksuddeth Junkie Location: bedford, tx	anyone know where there's a transcript of that question and answer session? __________________ "no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him."

04-01-2005, 10:00 PM	#38 (permalink)
Rigor Upright	does she have FACTS to back up her claims? hell no! 3 trillion? i heard her state 1999 thats before bush was in office. sex trade? why is it our govts fault if EMPLOYEES of a international company sells sex, its not like the COMPANY is making money or endorsing it as she suggested. she was a crazy back then and still is one now. sure she asked tuff question, but were they based in fact? if so show me them.