Bash the Dems here (but with facts) - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

C4 Diesel · 02-15-2005, 01:21 PM

After frequenting this board for a while, I'm noticing a trend. Aside from debate on issues, in which opinions are as important as fact in many circumstances and thus not relevant here, my observation of political discussion on the behavior of the parties and their elected representatives themselves leads me to quite a conclusion.

Most of what I see happening is someone will reveal negative information about the republican party by bringing up a news story (from a credible agency more often than not) or referencing fact of some kind. To this, the more conservative members of the board say "so what", "quit your whining", "more liberal garbage" or something to the idea of merely dismissing it without any credible retort. Less facts are brought up questioning the actions of the democrats, and even less with regard to present-day issues.

Republicans, I bid you to even the tides. Please present some facts that bring the political integrity of the Democratic party into question. Do it here, or start your own thread. Being that there are more republicans on the board then democrats (according to people's responses to my earlier poll) I would imagine that there should be at least as much dirt on the dems as on the GOP... unless, that is, the GOP really just performs more questionable politics.

...And just to remind everyone of my intent with this thread once again, it is to bring awareness of questionable actions of the parties, not to question their stance on the issues.

stevo · 02-15-2005, 01:57 PM

Does another flip-flop by Kerry count?

Kerry Backs Bush's $81.9 Bln War Spending Plan

Quote:

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Democratic Sen. John Kerry, whose baffling explanation of votes on Iraq war funding hurt his 2004 White House bid, said on Tuesday he would back President Bush's new $81.9 billion request for Iraq and Afghanistan.
"I think we're in a very different situation," Kerry told reporters. "I'm going to vote for this ... I think this money is important to our being successful and to the completion of the process."

The Massachusetts senator, who failed in his bid to unseat Bush last November in an election focused on national security, defended his decision to not back the president's previous request to fund military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan.

"Mine was the right vote at the time and I wouldn't change it if we went back to that point in time because it was the right vote," Kerry said. "We didn't have a plan and they didn't spend the money correctly."

In October 2003, a year after voting to support the use of force in Iraq, Kerry voted against an $87 billion supplemental funding bill for U.S. troops in Iraq and Afghanistan. He did support an unsuccessful alternative bill that funded the $87 billion by cutting some of Bush's tax cuts.

In March last year as the presidential campaign heated up, Kerry provided his Republican opponents with political ammunition when he sought to explain the move by saying: "I actually did vote for the $87 billion before I voted against it."

"Should we have done a better job, could I have done a better job personally in fighting back on defining that?" Kerry asked. "The answer is yeah."

Kerry said the United States would have made better progress on Iraq, where an insurgency continues to rage almost two years after the March 2003 invasion, if he had been elected. He asserted the Bush administration was only now "trying some of the things" he proposed such as focusing on training Iraqi forces and getting other countries involved.

"I think my security proposals for the country were smack on, dead on," Kerry said.

Bush's request is expected to be approved by lawmakers despite concerns in the U.S. Congress about record federal budget deficits.

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.j...toryID=7637317

I think its funny how this guy thinks. Now he wants the money for the troops. oh ok.

C4 Diesel · 02-15-2005, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevo

Does another flip-flop by Kerry count?

Haha... It's a start. Glad to see it come from you, too. I'd like to see Irateplatypus post something on this thread, too. I know you've got it in you, Irate!!! Dig something up! Defend your beloved conservatives by bashing the liberals!

dksuddeth · 02-15-2005, 02:59 PM

how about the protection of bill clinton from impeachment, despite the fact that he was clearly guilty?

guy44 · 02-15-2005, 03:26 PM

This was incompetent of the Democrats:

Quote:

IF A TREE FALLS IN A FOREST...If the Democrats held a hearing and nobody came, did it really take place? Dana Milbank writes about the first investigative hearing held by the Senate Democratic Policy Committee (DPC) this year and notes that while they picked a good topic (Iraq contracting abuses) and received good press coverage, it might help the cause a bit if Democratic senators themselves could be bothered to show up.

Still, the Democrats might get others to take their events/hearings more seriously if they did so themselves. Only two senators bothered to attend the nearly two-hour event -- Dorgan and Senate Minority Leader Harry M. Reid (Nev.), who told those assembled that "I have a number of questions, but I have other things to do."

I have some questions about the ability of any minority party-sponsored hearing to really make waves (particularly the DPC, which some Senate staffers derisively refer to as, "Democrats Preaching to the Choir"). But as Henry Waxman has shown in the House, being in the minority doesn't mean you can't hold people's feet to the flames and make the news while you're doing it.

Lord Almighty, Democrats, this is shameful. Particularly because what I heard before the hearing took place was that the leadership put out the call to all Senate Dems to avoid scheduling anything else the same time so that the hearing would command full attention. Apparently, nearly every Democratic senator interpreted this as a sign that they should extend their weekend an extra day and hang out in the state. Milbank is absolutely right--no one is ever going to take Democrats seriously if they don't do so themselves.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/arc..._02/005663.php

But I'm a Democrat, OK? If the best you guys can come up with is that Clinton lied about his BJ and that you somehow can't wrap your minds around Kerry supporting our troops while opposing an unjust war...I mean, damn.

yatzr · 02-15-2005, 03:40 PM

it's hard to dig up dirt on them when they don't do anything cause they have no power...
...
BURN!!! i'm just joking about that one

but, I will say it's pretty sad that they couldn't get a candidate to beat bush. If ever there was a guy that should've lost, it was him. But the dems couldn't do it.

KMA-628 · 02-15-2005, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guy44

But I'm a Democrat, OK? If the best you guys can come up with is that Clinton lied about his BJ and that you somehow can't wrap your minds around Kerry supporting our troops while opposing an unjust war...I mean, damn.

No, it's not the best we can do. However, if it makes you feel better that this is the worst the Dems are facing, well then, go ahead. I am perfectly happy with that thought process being continued.

What would be the point of posting anything here? What would it accomplish and who would it sway?

We went through months of this prior to the election (anyone remember wonderwench) and it did nothing but get people banned (temporary and otherwise).

What would be the point of posting any "bashing" comment in this thread?

Well, actually I am wrong. The bashing/theatrics/demonizing does have an effect on me, just not the intended effect I imagine.

Lebell · 02-15-2005, 04:48 PM

"Bashing" threads are not what TFP is about.

If you want to deal with a specific issue, then post about it.

But no "free-for-alls".

Thread closed.

02-15-2005, 01:21 PM	#1 (permalink)
C4 Diesel Crazy Location: Troy, NY	Bash the Dems here (but with facts) After frequenting this board for a while, I'm noticing a trend. Aside from debate on issues, in which opinions are as important as fact in many circumstances and thus not relevant here, my observation of political discussion on the behavior of the parties and their elected representatives themselves leads me to quite a conclusion. Most of what I see happening is someone will reveal negative information about the republican party by bringing up a news story (from a credible agency more often than not) or referencing fact of some kind. To this, the more conservative members of the board say "so what", "quit your whining", "more liberal garbage" or something to the idea of merely dismissing it without any credible retort. Less facts are brought up questioning the actions of the democrats, and even less with regard to present-day issues. Republicans, I bid you to even the tides. Please present some facts that bring the political integrity of the Democratic party into question. Do it here, or start your own thread. Being that there are more republicans on the board then democrats (according to people's responses to my earlier poll) I would imagine that there should be at least as much dirt on the dems as on the GOP... unless, that is, the GOP really just performs more questionable politics. ...And just to remind everyone of my intent with this thread once again, it is to bring awareness of questionable actions of the parties, not to question their stance on the issues. __________________ C4 to your door, no beef no more...

02-15-2005, 02:59 PM	#4 (permalink)
dksuddeth Junkie Location: bedford, tx	how about the protection of bill clinton from impeachment, despite the fact that he was clearly guilty? __________________ "no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him."

02-15-2005, 03:40 PM	#6 (permalink)
yatzr Insane	it's hard to dig up dirt on them when they don't do anything cause they have no power... ... BURN!!! i'm just joking about that one but, I will say it's pretty sad that they couldn't get a candidate to beat bush. If ever there was a guy that should've lost, it was him. But the dems couldn't do it. __________________ Mechanical Engineers build weapons. Civil Engineers build targets.

02-15-2005, 04:48 PM	#8 (permalink)
Lebell Cracking the Whip Location: Sexymama's arms...	"Bashing" threads are not what TFP is about. If you want to deal with a specific issue, then post about it. But no "free-for-alls". Thread closed. __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate!