02-15-2005, 12:09 AM | #41 (permalink) | |
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And parts of Islam doesn't return the favor and label them as "Infidels"? Religious lunacy like "God is comin' in 40 years!!!" is constitutionally protected lunacy. |
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02-15-2005, 12:14 AM | #42 (permalink) | ||
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I sincerely want to understand and to call attention to what I believe is happening to the reputation of the U.S. Note that the thread starter was an article that was published in a Toronto newspaper, and the following was published last year in a British newspaper. If our foreign policy is perceived to be driven by the imminent rapture wing of the republican party, then even our closest, English speaking allies, may write us off as delusional and unreliable. Israel may perceive that it is being used to hasten the time of it's own destruction. Quote:
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02-15-2005, 12:30 AM | #43 (permalink) | |
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
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Also, not all muslims are gun toating, bomb wearing psychopaths. A lot of them are regular, low key, productive members of society. While some of Islam can be interpreted as anti Christian, it is not regular practice to have religious prejudice. |
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02-15-2005, 12:32 AM | #44 (permalink) | |
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We spend more on our military than the next 20 highest-spending countries spend on their militaries COMBINED. That gives us a right to show our asses on the world stage, and if the rest of the world doesn't like it, well, tough shit. We've EARNED the right with American "blood and treasure". The rest of the world doesn't like our culture? Fine. They don't have to buy it. Parts of the world doesn't like the fact that we defend them? They don't have to be defended by us. They don't like what we stand for? They can stand for whatever they like, but shouldn't expect continued handouts from us if we don't like what they are doing. And a government that encourages it's people to chant "Death To America!" should expect death FROM America in response. Our government isn't perfect. But compared to the other alternatives, it looks pretty good to me. We can be the world's best friend. But we don't HAVE to be. And people around the world should realize that. |
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02-15-2005, 12:35 AM | #45 (permalink) | |
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Finally, you say something I agree with. But the moderate muslims have an obligation to muzzle their extremists if they don't want the rest of us to think that the extremists represent the mainstream. And almost ALL religions are anti-other religions. If they weren't, they'd never grow and would die off. |
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02-15-2005, 04:34 AM | #46 (permalink) |
This vexes me. I am terribly vexed.
Location: Grantville, Pa
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Should us moderate christians start muzzling the extremist christians like Falwell, Robertson, Franklin Graham, Bush etc?
I don't want the rest of the world to think the US christians are all as nuts as those people are. How would I go about doing that without violating their civil rights? |
02-15-2005, 08:13 AM | #47 (permalink) | |
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02-15-2005, 08:36 AM | #48 (permalink) |
Super Moderator
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it's obvious: for conservatives, when it comes to attacking muslims, anything goes: ignorance.....racism--everything is fine.
but christianity, even in its whackjob fundamentalist/evangelical forms, is not and cannot be a problem. go figure.
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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite |
02-15-2005, 10:22 AM | #49 (permalink) | |
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And don't come back with some tired arguement like "christians are there now killing thousands, blah blah blah". If there were fighting against soldiers, or even targetting military targets they might get sympathy. But you can't justify killing someone like Margaret Hassan, who not only spent her life trying to help muslims and married one, but was against the war. Until there is some outcry in the muslim community about such acts, there is no comparison between Islam and Christianity, Judaism, Hindu, or any other religion. |
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02-15-2005, 10:32 AM | #50 (permalink) | |
Psycho
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the·o·ry - a working hypothesis that is considered probable based on experimental evidence or factual or conceptual analysis and is accepted as a basis for experimentation. faith - Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. - Merriam-Webster's dictionary |
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02-15-2005, 10:33 AM | #51 (permalink) | ||
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
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02-15-2005, 10:41 AM | #52 (permalink) | |
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02-15-2005, 10:45 AM | #53 (permalink) |
Kiss of Death
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IRA wasn't killing in the name of catholicism, they were fighting for Irish independence.
Groups like Al Qaeda kill because they get 40 raisins in heaven after they blow up infidels.
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02-15-2005, 10:53 AM | #54 (permalink) | |
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Many people here have tried to compare Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson and others to the islamic fundamentalists. A more apt comparison would be comparing David Koresh to islamic fundamentalists. |
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02-15-2005, 11:00 AM | #56 (permalink) |
Kiss of Death
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There's always been an issue between the two, for centuries, it goes back and forth. The IRA if I remeber correctly largely targetted the British who have historically fucked over the Irish.
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To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition. |
02-15-2005, 11:03 AM | #57 (permalink) | |
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Terrorism Q&A: IRA
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02-15-2005, 11:04 AM | #58 (permalink) |
Kiss of Death
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It isn't Catholics vs. protestants in any sense that religion factors in. You have the seperatist Irish Catholics who have historically and continually have been treated as second class citizens or worse by the Brits, versus English loyalists, the protestants.
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To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition. |
02-15-2005, 11:07 AM | #59 (permalink) |
This vexes me. I am terribly vexed.
Location: Grantville, Pa
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It STARTED with the Protestants punishing the Irish for remaining Catholic
So it started as a religious issue. There were other parts to it, but it wouldn't have even started without the religious aspect. (Protestants colonizing Irish Catholic owned land) |
02-15-2005, 11:15 AM | #61 (permalink) | |
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True, that wasn't the IRA, but the IRA is an extension of the same conflicts. |
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02-15-2005, 11:27 AM | #62 (permalink) |
This vexes me. I am terribly vexed.
Location: Grantville, Pa
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That was battling back and forth, but the conflict that is being fought right now is specifically about the Protestant religious invasion.
You can go back and find the start of the "Muslim/Christian" conflict back before Muhammad if you just keep turning back the calendar. |
02-15-2005, 11:33 AM | #63 (permalink) | |
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02-15-2005, 11:50 AM | #64 (permalink) | |
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02-15-2005, 11:53 AM | #65 (permalink) | |
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And where is the proof of the "tens of thousands of civilian murders brought upon by a lunatic Christian fanatic"? Who is this mysterious Christian fanatic, where are these vast hordes of dead civilians? That is a baseless statement with no place in a logical debate. And there are some "insurgents" targeting military targets. However, the vast majority of those being killed by these terrorists are civilians or Iraqi officials, and they are doing this in the name of a religion that is dominated by hatred and violence. |
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02-15-2005, 01:11 PM | #67 (permalink) | |
Wehret Den Anfängen!
Location: Ontario, Canada
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That view of the world is self-consistent and probably more common than you'd like to believe. When GWB talks about crusades and being inspired by God, some people take him seriously. I attribute different motivations to GWB, but the above is a pretty strong message the USA is putting out to the world.
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Last edited by JHVH : 10-29-4004 BC at 09:00 PM. Reason: Time for a rest. |
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02-15-2005, 01:29 PM | #68 (permalink) | |
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As for the Christian fanatic I refer to, his name is George W. Bush. He is the same man who stated “God speaks through me”, he is the same man who stated, “God told me to strike Al Qaeda and Saddam”. This is the worst form of fanaticism and it has resulted in countless deaths, deaths that you’re apparently not aware of, which is why I provided you with some links. I apologize as I couldn’t find links from fox or cnn, but I hope this is sufficient. http://www.rense.com/general40/todate.htm http://www.twf.org/News/Y2003/0709-Civilians.html http://villagevoice.com/issues/0336/mondo3.php http://www.evilgopbastards.com/september_2003.htm http://opednews.com/hughes1003_Protestors.htm http://baltimorechronicle.com/oct03_DC-Marchers.html http://www.iraqbodycount.com |
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02-15-2005, 04:03 PM | #71 (permalink) | |
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Falwell, Robertson, et al generally don't have their followers going around blowing shit up. We do indeed jump on our religious fundamentalists when they cross the line...they end up in jail, like that abortion clinic bomber guy. You're allowed to believe whatever you want. Once you start acting in a manner that causes casualties, that's no longer protected and is criminal. |
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02-15-2005, 04:07 PM | #72 (permalink) | |
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"Well, I saw it on the Internets!" |
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02-15-2005, 04:12 PM | #73 (permalink) | |
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Look at the number of civilians killed by the "insurgents" in Iraq as compared to the number of US military personnel killed by the "insurgents". They are DEFINITELY targeting the Iraqi people. |
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02-15-2005, 04:26 PM | #74 (permalink) |
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No, he is not trying to spread Christianity, rather he invaded a country in the name of God. This "Christian" maniac thinks he is a prophet sent down to free the world of tyranny. This mentality is equatable to that of the islamic fanatics. As for the links, whatever, there is six more for your viewing pleasure, and your beloved iraqbodycount is one of them.
And exactly what are the numbers of civilians and US military killed by the "insurgents"? |
02-15-2005, 04:39 PM | #75 (permalink) | |
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People shouldn't allow personal animosity for the man get in the way of rational argument. Some people might think that people who act like that are mentally unhinged. Or, they might send them large rolls of Reynolds Wrap for haberdashery construction purposes. As for the numbers, I don't know "exactly". But conventional wisdom from BOTH sides is that a hell of a lot more civilians have been killed than US Servicemen, yes? |
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02-15-2005, 05:03 PM | #76 (permalink) |
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Bush has lied so many times that there have been countless varying reasons for invasion, all of which proved to be false. Unfortunately he needed more than "God" to maintain international "support" and have backing from the mindless masses in the US who feared the big bad terrorists. You see, once he instilled baseless propaganda to the nation putting them in fear, he than used God as a final crutch to lure them in officially. As for the UN, they don't have "a backbone" so we need to confront the issues by illegally invading a country! Yeehaw!
Yes, it's conventional wisdom that more civilians have been killed than US servicemen, but you stated that insurgents are responsible for more civilian deaths than US military deaths, which I doubt is the case. And besides, what do you expect when they are fighting the most highly trained killers in the world with the most advanced military weaponry? You think a couple of AK's and homemade bombs are sufficient enough, hardly, but they are putting up a good fight with what they have to work with. Also, I wouldn't mind some of that Reynolds wrap; I'd take it over a blindfold anyday. |
02-15-2005, 05:14 PM | #77 (permalink) | |
Cracking the Whip
Location: Sexymama's arms...
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The only "claims" I know to be provisionally false is that there were stocks of WMD's and that they could be rapidly deployed against whoever, and possibly that he had links to 9/11. The other claims, the Hussein was still breaking UN sanctions, that he posed a continuing threat to his neighbors, that he was a butcher, that he had plans to rebuild his WMDs and that he supported terrorism (in Israel) have been shown to be true.
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate! |
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02-15-2005, 05:21 PM | #78 (permalink) | |
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As for Saddam's not being involved in 9/11, well, it's not like he didn't try to claim responsibility for it with his people... see http://www.webmutants.com/strategypa...the_towers.jpg for an example |
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02-15-2005, 05:25 PM | #79 (permalink) | |
This vexes me. I am terribly vexed.
Location: Grantville, Pa
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Pat Robertson contributed to untold numbers of peoples murders and suffering in his african diamond mining ventures. Most recently with Charles Taylor in Nigeria. Difference between Robertson and Bin Laden? Robertson has power in the strongest nation in the world. |
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02-15-2005, 05:33 PM | #80 (permalink) | |
Cracking the Whip
Location: Sexymama's arms...
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I don't ascribe to the fundamentalist interpretation of the Book of Revelation, but it seems to me that you have no more basis for saying this than they do for saying it will happen
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate! |
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beliefs, pose, religious, threat |
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