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- - Iraqi Elections: Poll (https://thetfp.com/tfp/tilted-politics/82062-iraqi-elections-poll.html)

No HardKnock, you are most definitey not a traitor or terrorist.

I don't agree with most of Bush's ideas I don't agree with the war either but I am most certainly NOT a traitor nor a terrorist. I don't agree with Kerry either nor do I agree with most Democrat's policies. I am an individual, an American, a patriot.

That's our right and opinion. I think everyone can agree with that. We are all Americans entitled to our opinions. That is the very essence of America, God bless her.

As long as we're not beating people up or whatever or threatening people then there's nothing wrong with it.

Sob,

Great pictures by the way. I think those pictures speak a 1000 words.

Thanks for posting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hardknock

*You can't publish that article johnny. It goes against the war. You might be helping the terrirosts*

I can see it now. Students already think our rights should be surpressed so I can totally see this coming.

Like I stated earlier in this thread, because I don't wholeheartedly agree with Bush and this war that makes me a traitor and I'm aiding the terrorists right? What a fucking crock. Don't feed me the "don't question government in a time of war" bullshit either. Bush did a lot of fucked up things in this "war" and for him to even think that people will just blindly follow him and his lies is absurd. Our duty as citizens is to question our government, not become pawns just because "war" is declared and we should just automatically "rally behind the president" like sheep.

I think for myself. I suggest you do the same for once.

Who is telling you not to question, or calling you a traitor? I was just responding to two particular boneheaded posts, Raveneye's particularly. These people had the oppurtunity to vote in the first free election in 50 years, and it isn't worth it to vote because a FOREIGN BORN TERRORIST threatens violence in a country that isn't their own. What kind of weak shit is that?

Furthermore, there is a time and place for everything, my post was merely in the context of this thread, Iraqi's voting. Certain people here said some weak shit, that was just innapropriate really, and I couldn't be happier that they couldn't have been more wrong about the results.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ARTelevision

I do expect a high turnout and rather low violence but I'm really in no position to know.

I hope for the best for the Iraqi people - this is a pivotal historic moment for them.

Well said ART...In fact, you really should consider running in an election here in the USA. You are usually extremely right on - IMHO. However, sadly, all elections are rigged one way or the other. Look at Ohio in 2004 and Florida...well, never mind. Hindsight IS 20/20. But it's still all media hype. The fact that so many Iraqis voted is pretty astounding and to see women there voting, well, can that be real or just a staged TV moment for BushCo and buddies (ie The Carlyle Group). At any rate it's hopeful (if in fact it really did happen in a free and just manner ---but doesn't it feel like a long time gone and far away?)

Please illuminate us if you can. I would like to feel that it is still the Democratic way, but c'mon, this place is still 90% nomadic tribes...

Quote:

Originally Posted by jorgelito

Sob,

Great pictures by the way. I think those pictures speak a 1000 words.

Thanks for posting.

Thanks. It doesn't take much to encourage me to post things our news media can't seem to find the time to show.

But I just can't fathom those who would rather see President Bush embarrassed than democracy in Iraq.

<img src=http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0TQAwA*YWrGyFBETysJVvOcBM9ruJ79rnPqouKpQHV8RNcovb2AnAJ4CYWTzNWhpiA0XFu9uaDfoe6**OQfvB!7s2qnUy2jbiCa!TM*oFtgJaORdyWEq4Kw/ATT4309479.jpg?dc=4675508387967267052></img>

<img src=http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0TQAAAO4WnWqFBETysJVvOVUDh4RlZuhS*i3TqsXD7lQBhScWJdZLQfmvegGDciacH!2csPgYnWcHNrlu!rCByjilsTgP3tuboJDBJ8nyx96txxticbt2Zw/ATT4309480.jpg?dc=4675508388024560325></img>

<img src=http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0TQAAAO8W32qFBETysJVvOXDFLkhVrWd!AwnXXQ4sGt00tHUD4TewVUxvlxI947Z1GK3SPi0v*fk4BAMWMxJuOS6JhIirlMSJTxBT1m1*TaXkgmrg2Q1FcQ/ATT4309481.jpg?dc=4675508388113991088></img>

<img src=http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0TQDvAvAWIWuFBETysJVvOZpc0nk9mCCX4*vhlX6tx2u1rMP5N9Ah7yvp4Y0cp!3H!mgaDzlpNMLjL0gim0y66kochC8YWu7oke8rAhUX0f*MkB2XvR5ruw/ATT4309482.jpg?dc=4675508388175355036></img>

<img src=http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0TQAAAPEWY2uFBETysJVvOaCEPsKQW4QF!iYZBxi!CnxUeRqfWfv1nD6RAx9!5rx*0LzmAyt!74sparnY8O0Hd3sCEDhTkrD39utinvEiSjCnkSpxxGSdYg/ATT4309483.jpg?dc=4675508388326867165></img>

Those people were paid to do that. No Iraqi's like us there or are grateful.

/sarcasm off

Ugh, nevermind...I was going to ask if I should post pictures of the death and violence that the media doesn't show either since you chose to show a few positive ones, but whatever....

C'mon now, I am against the war but I can still appreciate these pictures. I believe it provides balance. We've already seen the bad stuff and here is some good stuff. It is always a good thing when we are as informed as possible with all sides of an issue.

Funny thing is, I get the impression that the Iraqis are as divided as we are. Some for the war, and some against. Some for the election, some against. Some want us to stay, some want us to leave, and some like Bush, and some don't like Bush. Just like here and elsewhere too.

I guess we're all not that different after all eh? Hmmm....interesting.

By the way Sob, the picture of the veteran standing up in his wheelchair at a parade next to some folks sitting down is now my desktop wallpaper (although the resolution's not so good, I still know what it is). Talk about powerful imagery...

For the sake of balance: (minus any photo hype)

Quote:

<a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A809-2004Nov20.html">http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A809-2004Nov20.html</a>
Children Pay Cost of Iraq's Chaos
Malnutrition Nearly Double What It Was Before Invasion

By Karl Vick
Washington Post Foreign Service
Sunday, November 21, 2004; Page A01

BAGHDAD -- Acute malnutrition among young children in Iraq has nearly doubled since the United States led an invasion of the country 20 months ago, according to surveys by the United Nations, aid agencies and the interim Iraqi government.

After the rate of acute malnutrition among children younger than 5 steadily declined to 4 percent two years ago, it shot up to 7.7 percent this year, according to a study conducted by Iraq's Health Ministry in cooperation with Norway's Institute for Applied International Studies and the U.N. Development Program. The new figure translates to roughly 400,000 Iraqi children suffering from "wasting," a condition characterized by chronic diarrhea and dangerous deficiencies of protein.

"These figures clearly indicate the downward trend," said Alexander Malyavin, a child health specialist with the UNICEF mission to Iraq.

The surveys suggest the silent human cost being paid across a country convulsed by instability and mismanagement. While attacks by insurgents have grown more violent and more frequent, deteriorating basic services take lives that many Iraqis said they had expected to improve under American stewardship.

Iraq's child malnutrition rate now roughly equals that of Burundi, a central African nation torn by more than a decade of war. It is far higher than rates in Uganda and Haiti.

"The people are astonished," said Khalil M. Mehdi, who directs the Nutrition Research Institute at the Health Ministry. The institute has been involved with nutrition surveys for more than a decade; the latest one was conducted in April and May but has not been publicly released.

Mehdi and other analysts attributed the increase in malnutrition to dirty water and to unreliable supplies of the electricity needed to make it safe by boiling. In poorer areas, where people rely on kerosene to fuel their stoves, high prices and an economy crippled by unemployment aggravate poor health.

"Things have been worse for me since the war," said Kasim Said, a day laborer who was at Baghdad's main children's hospital to visit his ailing year-old son, Abdullah. The child, lying on a pillow with a Winnie the Pooh washcloth to keep the flies off his head, weighs just 11 pounds.

"During the previous regime, I used to work on the government projects. Now there are no projects," his father said.

When he finds work, he added, he can bring home $10 to $14 a day. If his wife is fortunate enough to find a can of Isomil, the nutritional supplement that doctors recommend, she pays $7 for it.

"But the lady in the next bed said she just paid $10," said Suad Ahmed, who sat cross-legged on a bed in the same ward, trying to console her skeletal 4-month-old granddaughter, Hiba, who suffers from chronic diarrhea.

Iraqi health officials like to surprise visitors by pointing out that the nutrition issue facing young Iraqis a generation ago was obesity. Malnutrition, they say, appeared in the early 1990s with U.N. trade sanctions championed by Washington to punish the government led by President Saddam Hussein for invading Kuwait in 1990.

International aid efforts and the U.N. oil-for-food program helped reduce the ruinous impact of sanctions, and the rate of acute malnutrition among the youngest Iraqis gradually dropped from a peak of 11 percent in 1996 to 4 percent in 2002. But the invasion in March 2003 and the widespread looting in its aftermath severely damaged the basic structures of governance in Iraq, and persistent violence across the country slowed the pace of reconstruction almost to a halt.

In its most recent assessment of five sectors of Iraq's reconstruction, the Center for Strategic and International Studies, a Washington research group, said health care was worsening at the quickest pace..................

Quote:

Originally Posted by host

For the sake of balance: (minus any photo hype)

That increased malnutrition rate couldn't have anything to do with the terrorists fucking up everything we fix over there, now could it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by jorgelito

Sorry if I gave you the impression that I was referring to you. There were other posts which convinced me the author hoped that Bush would be embarrassed, even if it meant the Iraqis might suffer.

I can understand opposition to the war. However, the posts that are simply Bush-hating rants don't seem to contribute a lot to discussion.

Thanks again for the props.

Ooops,

Actually Sob, I was refering to Rdr4evr's response:

"Ugh, nevermind...I was going to ask if I should post pictures of the death and violence that the media doesn't show either since you chose to show a few positive ones, but whatever...."

It's all good, we all have our opinions and that's a healthy part of a free and democratic nation.