Did I do that? - Page 2 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Lebell · 02-04-2005, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tecoyah

One would think the unsecured arsenal of the former Soviet Union would be more worrisome in the above scenario #3. Iran has yet (as far as we know) produced the materials, let alone created a device.....whereas the Soviets are unsure where all thiers even are.

Yeah, I agree that it is a worry...and another reason I believe I'll witness terrorist nuclear attack in my lifetime.

flstf · 02-04-2005, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lebell

Yeah, I agree that it is a worry...and another reason I believe I'll witness terrorist nuclear attack in my lifetime.

I am surprised that this hasn't happened yet in one of our major cities. There must be something about the technology that makes this rather difficult, I guess. Also, why haven't there been more domestic airliners shot down with the hand held missle launchers. It would seem that standing in a field by the airport and firing away would be very easy to do.

Lebell · 02-04-2005, 06:02 PM

I'll repeat;

A gun type nuclear device is comparatively easy to make.

The tough part is getting the fissible material.

Mephisto2 · 02-04-2005, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lebell

Well,

I think you have blinders on to how much Iran hates Isreal and to the history of their support for terrorist organizations world wide.

No, I appreciate that the religious leaders in Iran hate Israel. I think the secular leaders are a bit more... realistic.

With regards to their support of terrorism, I don't discount it. As for international terrorism, I don't believe their support would go so far as providing them with nuclear weapons. I'm not sure of how much they support terrorists either; I don't deny it, I'm just unknowledgeable of the evidence.

Quote:

As to "prized technology", a first generation implosion type device is fairly advanced, I agree, but a gun type device is not that complicated.

Which a couple of thousand and enough bomb grade plutonium or uranium and I could make one in my garage.

I honestly don't think you could make a gun type bomb in your garage. A so-called "dirty bomb" yes, but a "Little Boy" gun-type? I don't think so.

Could Iran do it? Of course. Could YOU do it in your garage? I don't believe so. Unless you have a much better workshop than I do! :-)

As a matter of interest, I highly recommend Richard Rhodes majesterial (and Pulitzer Prize winning) book The Making of the Atomic Bomb. Fascinating reading, even though its subject is the WWII weapons.

Quote:

I agree that the Iranians wouldn't be stupid enough to give the terrorists the former type of weapon (too traceable), but I think they are FULLY capable of giving them the enriched material for the latter type.

Granted. They are capable. But would they do it? Material for a dirty bomb is a worrying prospect.

I was in the US the week before last and saw a PBS movie called "Dirty War" that covered exactly this scenario. Did anyone else see it? Quite chilling and very well done.

Quote:

And again, can Israel afford to retaliate if they (and the majority of the world) aren't convinced it was Iran WITH proof?

I don't think they would stop to ask questions. Would the US?

Mr Mephisto

Lebell · 02-04-2005, 06:46 PM

But there you have it, the clerics do have ultimate power over the government in Iran and they have made it clear that the secular members of the government ultimately answer to them.

And I don't deny that it would be difficult, but it is VERY possible to make a gun type weapon in a fairly competent shop.

The hardest part is to make sure that you have the plutonium/uranium sub masses shaped correctly, the actual shaping being hard.

Since both are pyrophoric to one degree or another when finely subdivided (read machined), that means that machining would have to be done under an inert atmosphere, but Airgas will let you pick up N2 no questions asked.

The actual shape wouldn't be hard, just a square block with a wedge shape taken out of it. Make that block 2/3 critical mass and the fitting block at least 1/2 of critical.

Next, you need to fabricate a guide that send the smaller wedge into the larger (and can withstand the stick or two of dynamite needed).

You can set up the cap detonator to the ringer on a cell phone.

Put the whole thing in a hollowed out refridgerator and your good to go.

It's a horribly inefficient design, which is extremely wasteful with the fissible material, but Little Boy proved it works just fine.

And yeah, I've read the Rhodes book. Great read. Got it when I visited Trinity Site a few years back.

Yeah, the US would ask questions. 2k people died on 9/11 and we ASKED Afghanistan to hand Bin Laden over. That when we knew 100% that they were harboring and supporting him.

If Israel wasn't immediately sure that it was Iran (like if they had launched a missle) then yeah, they would HAVE to.

02-04-2005, 06:02 PM	#43 (permalink)
Lebell Cracking the Whip Location: Sexymama's arms...	I'll repeat; A gun type nuclear device is comparatively easy to make. The tough part is getting the fissible material. __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate!

02-04-2005, 06:46 PM	#45 (permalink)
Lebell Cracking the Whip Location: Sexymama's arms...	But there you have it, the clerics do have ultimate power over the government in Iran and they have made it clear that the secular members of the government ultimately answer to them. And I don't deny that it would be difficult, but it is VERY possible to make a gun type weapon in a fairly competent shop. The hardest part is to make sure that you have the plutonium/uranium sub masses shaped correctly, the actual shaping being hard. Since both are pyrophoric to one degree or another when finely subdivided (read machined), that means that machining would have to be done under an inert atmosphere, but Airgas will let you pick up N2 no questions asked. The actual shape wouldn't be hard, just a square block with a wedge shape taken out of it. Make that block 2/3 critical mass and the fitting block at least 1/2 of critical. Next, you need to fabricate a guide that send the smaller wedge into the larger (and can withstand the stick or two of dynamite needed). You can set up the cap detonator to the ringer on a cell phone. Put the whole thing in a hollowed out refridgerator and your good to go. It's a horribly inefficient design, which is extremely wasteful with the fissible material, but Little Boy proved it works just fine. And yeah, I've read the Rhodes book. Great read. Got it when I visited Trinity Site a few years back. Yeah, the US would ask questions. 2k people died on 9/11 and we ASKED Afghanistan to hand Bin Laden over. That when we knew 100% that they were harboring and supporting him. If Israel wasn't immediately sure that it was Iran (like if they had launched a missle) then yeah, they would HAVE to. __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate! Last edited by Lebell; 02-04-2005 at 06:49 PM..