US operating inside Iran? - Page 5 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Mephisto2 · 01-20-2005, 02:13 PM

Let me get this straight.

You're now saying that Bin Laden was responsible for the Somalia incident?

Mr Mephisto

Coppertop · 01-20-2005, 02:18 PM

That's the first I've heard of OBL being involved in the Somalia incident. Very interesting. Are there any other sources that back up the claim?

Mojo_PeiPei · 01-20-2005, 02:18 PM

Not the famine, that was the warlords and internal strife. The reality is that he became involved somepoint after America and the UN got involved.

Mojo_PeiPei · 01-20-2005, 02:23 PM

Here's frontline, seems reliable enough right? It's a little jumbled, think its from the DOJ...

Quote:

* ...Third, al Qaeda opposed the involvement of the United States armed forces in the Gulf War in 1991 and in Operation Restore Hope in Somalia in 1992 and 1993, which were viewed by al Qaeda as pretextual preparations for an American occupation of Islamic countries....

* ...At various times from at least as early as 1989, the defendant USAMA BIN LADEN, and others known and unknown, provided training camps and guesthouses in various areas, including Afghanistan, Pakistan, the Sudan, Somalia and Kenya for the use of al Qaeda and its affiliated groups.

The Fatwah Against American Troops in Somalia
At various times from in or about 1992 until in or about 1993, the defendant USAMA BIN LADEN, working together with members of the fatwah committee of al Qaeda, disseminated fatwahs to other members and associates of al Qaeda that the United States forces stationed in the Horn of Africa, including Somalia, should be attacked;

The Establishment of Training Camps for Somalia
In or about late 1992 and 1993, the defendant MUHAMMAD ATEF traveled to Somalia on several occasions for the purpose of determining how best to cause violence to the United States and United Nations military forces stationed there and reported back to the defendant USAMA BIN LADEN and other al Qaeda members at USAMA BIN LADENS's facilities located in Khartoum, the Sudan;

Beginning in or about early spring 1993, al Qaeda members, including the defendants MUHAMMAD ATEF, SAIF AL ADEL, ABDULLAH AHMED ABDULLAH, a/k/a/ "Abu Mohamed el Masry," ... along with "Abu Ubaidah al Banshiri," a co-conspirator not named herein as a defendant, provided military training and assistance to Somali tribes opposed to the United Nations' intervention in Somalia;

The Attacks on the United States Forces in Somalia
w. On October 3 and 4, 1993, in Mogadishu, Somalia, persons who had been trained by al Qaeda (and by trainers trained by al Qaeda) participated in an attack on United States military personnel serving in Somalia as part of Operation Restore Hope, which attack resulted in the killing of 18 United States Army personnel, namely, Donovan L. Briley, Daniel D. Busch, James M. Cavaco, William D. Cleveland, Thomas J. Field, Earl Fillmore, Raymond Frank, Gary I. Gordon, James C. Joyce, Richard W. Kowalski, James Martin, Timothy Martin, Dominick M. Pilla, Matthew L. Rierson, Lorenzo M. Ruiz, Randall D. Shughart, James E. Smith, and Clifton Wolcott.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...ndictment.html

If you remember at this point the war in Afghanistan was over and won, and Osama had been expelled from the Saudi Kingdom, I do believe this is the point when he was in Sudan which would put him right in the neighborhood.

archer2371 · 01-21-2005, 12:56 AM

Wow, I thought that was common knowledge...huh, guess not everyone's a military nut like me. Also, when the troops were there, they would intercept radio transmissions in Arabic. There's only one problem with that. Somalis don't speak Arabic. Plus Somalia was a hop skip and a jump away from Sudan, and Osama was more than willing to help out.

Yakk · 01-21-2005, 08:35 AM

So, you claim that both Al`Queda and Iraq had provided resources to Warlords in Somalia?

And, that is what you mean by 'operational ties'?

Just trying to understand what you mean by your phrase.

Mojo_PeiPei · 01-21-2005, 01:49 PM

Al Qaeda was in there of their own will to fight the Americans. They were trained and equipped in Sudan by foreign intelligence groups from places like Iraq and Iran. So yes that is operational ties, I don't think there was any doubt as to the reasons for them to get trained and equipped...

Yakk · 01-21-2005, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mojo_PeiPei

Al Qaeda was in there of their own will to fight the Americans. They were trained and equipped in Sudan by foreign intelligence groups from places like Iraq and Iran. So yes that is operational ties, I don't think there was any doubt as to the reasons for them to get trained and equipped...

Now, the thing is, I have reason not to believe you.

The US 9/11 commission couldn't find such a link between Al Qaeda and Iraq, which you claim is common knowledge.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Eggen

There is "no credible evidence" that Saddam Hussein's government in Iraq collaborated with the al Qaeda terrorist network on any attacks on the United States, according to a new staff report released this morning by the commission investigating the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.

Although Osama bin Laden briefly explored the idea of forging ties with Iraq in the mid-1990s, the terrorist leader was hostile to Hussein's secular government, and Iraq never responded to requests for help in providing training camps or weapons, the panel found in the first of two reports issued today.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2004Jun16.html

They spent far more time on this that I have, and presumably you have -- could you please provide me with evidence strong enough to make me doubt their accuracy?

Or, have I misunderstood the 9/11 commission reports?

And, as an aside, could you point out when the alledged training in Sudan occurred? I lost track.

Mojo_PeiPei · 01-21-2005, 02:39 PM

The training would've taken place in and around 92'-93'. Also I believe the Commission only asserts there was no connection involving 9-11. If I get the book back I can look further into it, otherwise at this time I can't say much either way.

01-20-2005, 02:18 PM	#163 (permalink)
Mojo_PeiPei Kiss of Death Location: Perpetual wind and sorrow	Not the famine, that was the warlords and internal strife. The reality is that he became involved somepoint after America and the UN got involved. __________________ To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition.

01-21-2005, 12:56 AM	#165 (permalink)
archer2371 Sarge of Blood Gulch Red Outpost Number One Location: On the front lines against our very enemy	Wow, I thought that was common knowledge...huh, guess not everyone's a military nut like me. Also, when the troops were there, they would intercept radio transmissions in Arabic. There's only one problem with that. Somalis don't speak Arabic. Plus Somalia was a hop skip and a jump away from Sudan, and Osama was more than willing to help out. __________________ "This ain't no Ice Cream Social!" "Hey Grif, Chupathingy...how bout that? I like it...got a ring to it." "I have no earthly idea what it is I just saw, or what this place is, or where in the hell O'Malley is! My only choice is to blame Grif for coming up with such a flawed plan. Stupid, stupid Grif."

01-21-2005, 08:35 AM	#166 (permalink)
Yakk Wehret Den Anfängen! Location: Ontario, Canada	So, you claim that both Al`Queda and Iraq had provided resources to Warlords in Somalia? And, that is what you mean by 'operational ties'? Just trying to understand what you mean by your phrase. __________________ Last edited by JHVH : 10-29-4004 BC at 09:00 PM. Reason: Time for a rest.

01-21-2005, 01:49 PM	#167 (permalink)
Mojo_PeiPei Kiss of Death Location: Perpetual wind and sorrow	Al Qaeda was in there of their own will to fight the Americans. They were trained and equipped in Sudan by foreign intelligence groups from places like Iraq and Iran. So yes that is operational ties, I don't think there was any doubt as to the reasons for them to get trained and equipped... __________________ To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition.

01-21-2005, 02:39 PM	#169 (permalink)
Mojo_PeiPei Kiss of Death Location: Perpetual wind and sorrow	The training would've taken place in and around 92'-93'. Also I believe the Commission only asserts there was no connection involving 9-11. If I get the book back I can look further into it, otherwise at this time I can't say much either way. __________________ To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition.

01-20-2005, 02:13 PM	#161 (permalink)
Mephisto2 Junkie	Let me get this straight. You're now saying that Bin Laden was responsible for the Somalia incident? Mr Mephisto

01-20-2005, 02:18 PM	#162 (permalink)
Coppertop Getting Medieval on your ass Location: 13th century Europe	That's the first I've heard of OBL being involved in the Somalia incident. Very interesting. Are there any other sources that back up the claim?