OFKU0

Updated Fri. Jan. 14 2005 10:07 PM ET

U.S. soldier found guilty of prisoner abuse
CTV.ca News Staff

It took a military jury less than five hours to convict U.S. army Spc. Charles Graner of abusing Iraqi detainees at Abu Ghraib prison.

Graner, 36, looked straight ahead with no expression as the jury found him guilty of all five charges against him arising from the scandal.

He now faces up to 15 years behind bars. The sentencing phase of the trial is expected to begin Friday evening.

The military accused Graner of being the ringleader of a band of rogue guards at Abu Ghraib. Graner and his lawyers say he was just following orders -- an argument rejected by the jury.

On Friday, Graner was found guilty on 10 counts under five separate charges, including assault, conspiracy, maltreatment of detainees, committing indecent acts and dereliction of duty. One assault count was downgraded to battery.

Graner was accused of stacking naked prisoners in a pyramid and forcing them to masturbate. He also allegedly forced Muslims to eat pork and drink alcohol, against their religious beliefs, and allegedly punched a man in the head hard enough to knock him out.

"It was for sport, for laughs,'' Capt. Chris Graveline, one of the prosecutors, told jurors in his closing arguments Friday.

"What we have here is plain abuse. There is no justification.''

Graner, the first soldier to be tried on charges arising from the scandal, never took the stand himself during the 41/2-day trial.

His lawyer, Guy Womack, said the soldiers were under extreme pressure from U.S. intelligence agents to prepare the prisoners for questioning.

Womack noted that the alleged abuse happened before deposed Iraqi president Saddam Hussein was in U.S. custody.

"There was somebody very important on everybody's mind,'' Womack said.

"Wouldn't it be logical to have your interrogators use pressure to get information to try to find him?''

The notorious photographs that sparked the abuse investigations were first broadcast on CBS's 60 Minutes II in April 2004. Prisoners were shown wearing hoods, piled naked on top of each other, hooked to electrodes, and tethered to a leash.

Three others are awaiting trial, including Pte. First Class Lynndie England, who gave birth last fall to a baby believed to have been fathered by Graner.

Four other soldiers have pleaded guilty in the scandal.

With files from CTV's Alan Fryer and The Associated Press

http://g.msn.com/0US!s6.73430_734763/2.a7371/3??cm=CTVNews

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So is this justice or not? I just watched CNN and as much as Aaron Brown tried to put on a brave face, the guy he interviewed (sorry, just jumped in, no name) said the cases of abuse are at least in the hundreds if not thousands but this guy, Graner, got caught.

The Question. Is Graner the fall guy for abuses and if so, what about his superiors? Will this epitomize the abuses, that is will this be the beckoning that is refered to if such abuses happen again and are thought of as nothing?

Or will people genuinely be appalled? If such circumstances happened to U.S POW'S would people be alarmed or would they even give a shit? So what?

__________________
" In Canada, you can tell the most blatant lie in a calm voice, and people will believe you over someone who's a little passionate about the truth." David Warren, Western Standard.

Mephisto2

Judging from the evidence, this guy is not just a "fall guy". He's a criminal and deserves to be punished. He boasted of sexually abusing prisoners, of beating them up, of treating them badly. The guy is a sadist who will be treated with infinitely more respect and compassion in jail than he showed himself.

Of course there are others "up the chain of command" that also deserve to be punished, Rumsfeld chief amongst them. But that is unlikely to change.

When have things ever been different?


Mr Mephisto

pan6467

He's a fall guy. What did the others in the pictures get? The Sgt that made those 2 Iraqi prisoners swim until they drowned only got 6 months and NO LOSS of rank.

It's BS. The sad thing is these people give the 1000's of honorable and dignified military bad names. Just like anywhere else we need to uphold the laws, punish to the fullest extent based on the severity of the crime (murder is murder whether you shot and killed a man in cold blood or made them swim till they drowned).

If we catch soldiers torturing the enemy we should hold their feet to the flames and send them away for a very very long time. Otherwise, we are showing our people it's ok to do it (and yet, there is no honor in torture), we are showing our allies we do not value human life at all and that we are worse than the enemy because we claim to be morally better than they.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

Strange Famous

WHy is this criminal being tried by the American military? He should be tried by the court of the Iraqi people and punished as they see fit if he is guilty.

Proof that "war crimes" and "crimes against humanity" only apply to the losers.

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

robertjtucker

I don't have a problem with them torturing people if that is what is needed to keep our country safe. But this shit is just stupid and silly. Naked pyramids and that other stuff is just stupid. Beat them with a stick if you have to or what ever, get what you need and lock them up if there is a threat or let them go. No naked pyramids. That guy will probably end up being somones bitch and enjoy it.

Lebell

It sounds like justice has been served.

__________________
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis

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OFKU0

10 years I think I heard. I saw his family (mother and father) and they seemed quite upset.

I really don't like hitting people when they are down but,..as Graner was going into court for the verdict, he was laughing, joking,.. his machismo superceded himself. I thought that was really immature. That's all I'm going to say. Be it the 'tough guy, cool guy, nothing affects me type attitude' or something that is result of his military training, I don't know. Given the circumstances, I would have expected some class from him, rather than a continuation of his ignorance which brought him to trial in the first place.

__________________
" In Canada, you can tell the most blatant lie in a calm voice, and people will believe you over someone who's a little passionate about the truth." David Warren, Western Standard.

connyosis

Yeah, torturing is totally cool. Naked pyramids is just gay...

__________________
If atheism is a religion, then not collecting stamps is a hobby.

Rdr4evr

15 years, that's it? One can only hope he gets his deserved fate while behind bars.

Dragonlich

He got 10 years. And 10 years is a lot for "only" abusing prisoners, especially if you take into account he "only" acted on orders.

...but then again, in my country, the jail time would probably be lower. Or at least, that's the general perception here.

Kalibah

Good.
But I still fail to believe that it was some elaborate scheme that EVERYONE knew about- from the top down. It was just some rogue soilders IMHO

pan6467

I heard on the radio he got 10 years and a dishonorable discharge when he gets out. His mother is saying her son is very scared of going to prison, as well he should. I am not necessarily a vengeful person, but I truly hope someone does to him what he did to his prisoners. Perhaps that will teach him that what he did was sentence those men to a lifetime of psychological torture that is far worse than death. In my mind this man is lower than a rapist and slightly above a child molester, because in both situations it is an abuse of power and kills someone from within, because they live that for the rest of their lives.

I am sorry if people disagree with me or believe my views are way off. To those I say, you are entitled to your opinions also.

To this guy's co prison inmates I beg they don't kill him just give him what he gave and he can see how "harmless and funny" it is firsthand.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

roachboy

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story...391443,00.html

have a look at the above article: it kinda makes you wonder about the fall guy status of sgt. graner. i think he should have been sentenced as he was, but the idea that he is in any way a "ringleader" seems like little more than run-of-the-mill karl rove nonsense. as does the idea that this sentencing represents anything like a recognition of the problems of tirture by the bushites.

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

Zeld2.0

Though I think he seems like the fall-guy (i think someone higherup should be in trouble), whats done is done, and karma is a bitch.