Manx

If you're feeling good about the world in general, go see Hotel Rwanda. All that warm heartedness will vanish.

You should see it now, because it's only one decade too late.

And when you're done, spend 2 hours researching Sudan so in a decade when the Hotel Sudan flick comes out you'll be like "Oh yeah, I remember that."

http://www.apple.com/trailers/mgm/hotel_rwanda/

jorgelito

I saw the trailer for this. It looks really well done. Intense too. Unfortunately, it just seems like no one really cares. Just look at the number of views and replies to this thread.

That part of the world is just put on the backburner really. Still, I'm glad someone made that film.

zen_tom

I would like to see this film - it's almost an obligation

Tex

I'm definately looking forward to seeing this film. The only problem is finding someone to go with me. Not many girls I know are interested in seeing this type of film.
Nevertheless, I'll find someone this week and will go check it out next weekend.

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powerclown

I definitely plan on seeing it.

Something about hundreds of thousands of people being chopped to pieces with machetes, both repulses and fascinates me.

I can't quite get my mind around what took place there - what was allowed to take place there.

Rekna

Now that i've seen the preview I definatly want to see it, but I havn't found it in any theater in Salt Lake City

Mephisto2

I remember reading about the events depicted in this movie not long after the conflict ended. Emotional stuff.

I've read a number of negative reviews of this movie. Has anyone seen it yet?


Mr Mephisto

Gatorade Frost

Haven't seen it, but I plan to in a few weeks probably. It looks interesting now that I've actually seen the trailer for it.

Thanks for the heads up guys.

Manx

I have seen it. I can't imagine how anyone could give this film negative marks.

Mephisto2

The review stated that the Tutsis were never shown as more than victims, that there was no characterization of them but that they were only shown as mute victims. The review also went on to say the only significant Tutsi characters were the hotel owner's wife and one general who gave a closing soliquay on the genocide. Furthermote, whilst it touched upon some Christian nuns who also assisted in saving some Tutsis, that part of the story was glossed over.

I'm only repeating what I remember of the review and can't vouch for the veracity of the criticisms.

Mr Mephisto

Manx

The movie did not attempt to address the particulars. I did not have a problem with that due to the fact that the generalities have never been widely discussed. And without the generalities, the particulars are irrelevant.

Although the Tutsis were not portrayed as significant aggressors (other than the Tutsi rebels being responsible for the death of the President immediately after the peace accord, no small act) I did not feel, watching the movie, that anyone other than the dead in the streets and the refugees in the hotel (who were both Hutu and Tutsi) were victims. The real criminals were the international community for abandoning the situation.

Paul Rusesabagina, the hotel manager and focal point of the movie is Hutu, his wife is Tutsi.

Having said that, the Hutu militia were certainly responsible for the vast majority of murders.


I have to wonder how the U.S., the U.N., France, etc. would react if 90% of the U.K. systematically murdered the other 10%. I doubt very much those governments and organizations would turn their backs. And I doubt very much the press would be as silent about it.

discotequi

I heard a great review of this on NPR... it was one of the commentators best of 2004. I'm looking forward to seeing it...thanks for the tip.

Willravel

I thought this beared repeating. All this was to the American people was a campaign platform. It disgusts me.

Mephisto2

No, the real criminals are those that massacred the Tutsis. There are currently over 130,000 people, the majority of whom are or were members of the Interahamwe, awaiting trial for crimes against humanity and genocide.

Or do you believe the Hutus were mere pawns in the hands of Western nations?! Certainly the international community are guilty of not intervening, but to claim they are the real criminals in the genocide is extremely disingenuous.


And she was the only "character" of that ethnicity according to the review.

Anyway, I'm not commenting on the actual genocide itself, but simply providing details on the only published review I've seen of the movie.

I agree.


Mr Mephisto

Manx

I stand by what I said. It was not a dismissal of the incredibly wrong actions of the murderers. The people that represent me and you and pretty much everyone on TFP were the people that knew what was happening and decided to ignore it. The people that are supposed to provide me and you and everyone TFP with the information we need to make informed decisions decided to ignore it.

The murderers are murderers. There is no excuse for that. The criminals are those who know what is happening and very specifically do nothing about it when they could have done so much. They are the real criminals because they have gotten away with their crime scot-free.

I do believe that the conflict in pretty much every country in Africa that is experiencing internal conflict is directly related to how Western countries have, through the ages, manipulated the people of those countries. In the case of Rwanda, in simple terms, the Belgians created a class division between the Hutus and the Tutsis.
Of course not.
Not at all. They had every ability to prevent it and did not.

Manx

That seems to me to be an exceptionally narrow viewpoint of the review to consider that a flaw in the film. There were maybe 4 main African characters in the film.

Mephisto2

That doesn't make them the "real criminals".

The genocide took approximately four months. Not that long a time to organize international intervention. By no means am I excusing what happened; indeed, I think it's a travesty of the greatest order. But I don't believe the international community can be characterized as criminals of a greater order than those who actually planned, organized and carried out the genocide.

Yes, I'm quite familiar with the history of the continent. I highly recommend the book The Scramble for Africa by Thomas Pakenham that covers this subject in great detail - http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...books&n=507846. One of my favourites which I regularly reread. Also, Africa - A Biography of the Continent by John Reader (Winner of the Alan Paton Award 1998) gives a fascinating and often disturbing history of Africa; this second book begins in prehistoric times even before the evolution of mankind and ends with a description of the genocide (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...273817-3227349). David Landes's The Wealth and Poverty of Nations - Why Some are So Rich and Some So Poor also goes some way to describe how Africa was exploited by the "Western" powers (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...273817-3227349) and even Jared Diamond's best seller Guns, Germs and Steel - The Fates of Human Societies touches on the same topic (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...273817-3227349).

I'm far from ignorant of the history of Africa. It's a favourite interest of mine, along with the history of Islam, colonization and imperliamism, human evolution, genetics and paleo-anthropology (amongst others); all topics that are in some way related to this subject.


The class divisions existed long before the arrival of the "Western" powers. The Belgians certainly emphasized, exploited and enriched from it. But create it they did not.


Mr Mephisto

Manx

I don't really want to paint this picture in this way, but it is the easiest way for me to describe my position:

When a child goes on a rampage in a school yard by throwing things at other kids, pushing other kids, stealing other kids toys, you are upset and dissappointed with the kid. As a teacher, you would punish the kid in some fashion. If it happened often, you would hold the kids parents responsible for their child's behavioral problems.

The West created the environment and then turned their backs when it got real ugly, real quick. The West is the real criminal.
Sounds interesting. Thanks I'll check it out.
True. What I meant is that the Belgian exploitation of the class division created the environment that led to the genocide. For example, while the Belgians colonized Rwanda, they placed minority Tutsis in charge. When the Belgians left, they turned everything over to the majority Hutus, who then proceeded to exact revenge for the way the Tutsis (by proxy the Belgians) ruled the country.

Mephisto2

Seriously... if you have any interest in the exploitation of Africa during the 19th century, you'll love Pakenham's book. I can't recommend it enough.

He's also written an excellent (dare I say definitive?) history of the Boer War in Southern Africa.

Mr Mephisto

j. dakar

Schwan

I don't think I'll be able to see the movie any time soon, if at all, at least not in the cinema. I think it's very important to note the time that this movie came out - over ten years past the genocide. This seems especially interesting in light of the current Sudan crisis, which does not get the media hypa that the recent tsunami did. Genocide is not as interesting and dynamic as a 10 meter wave lashing fat europeans in beach resorts for the media, as the last few weeks have shown.

Mephisto2

How very true.

I remember hearing that the charities associated with Africa were a bit uneasy over all the exposure the tsunami was getting; their position being that ten times the number of casualties in SE Asia are lost in Africa each year.

It's really a tragedy all round, no matter what direction you look.


Mr Mephisto

hammer4all

Saw the movie. It was good/sad.

And for those who say it couldn't have been stopped: you're wrong. We knew within days that genocide was taking place and actively discouraged any intervention by the U.N. Apparently no U.S. "interests" were being threatened and they were just a bunch of black people killing each other so we didn't care.

Rwanda Ten Years Ago: How the World Stood Back and Watched a Genocide
(video leads in to...)
Exposed: Washington Ignored U.S. Intel Warning of Genocide in Rwanda

Fourtyrulz

I think what will inhibit the impact of this movie the most is trying to find a theater that is playing it! I don't think any theathers within an hour driving distance are showing it at all.

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fibber

Cmon Meph, by now you should know that every problem is in some way the US's fault. Don't you remember the part of the Constitution that mandates our intervention in all global affairs. Your knees apparently don't jerk fast enough.
-fibba

Mephisto2

Huh?

Mr Mephisto

fibber

Srry perhaps my sarcasm was too heavily veiled... I'm on your side .

I was trying to point out the fashionability of blaming the US, at least partially, in all global matters.

I was thinkin' of what Wolfe wrote about the lone superpower and "intellectuals" in "In the Land of the Rococo Marxist".

-fibber

stevo

Way to go Clinton. and he was called the closest thing to a 'black president' we've ever had. He sure cared about all those thousands of black Rwandans in 1994.

Mephisto2

Now I've heard it all. It's Clinton's fault hundreds of thousands of Rwandans were killed?

Mr Mephisto

inharmony

I definitely plan on seeing this movie. I don't care what reviewers say...it's been my experience if they hate it I'll love it. Politically...in my opinion I can't believe what happened was allowed to go on.

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stevo

Well, if you follow the logic posted here, that it was the West's fault, as others have posted here...then yes, yes it was.