irseg

No shit. I can't wait until 50 years from now, when "intellectually disabled" will be un-PC and instead people will be expected to refer to them as something even more ridiculous like "Persons who are considered by some cultural standards--that are not better or worse than any other culture--to emphasize their other talents and abilities over their mental capacity."

A while back I read through a medical textbook from the mid-1800's that simply referred to them as idiots. I got a kick out of that.

Locobot

Fine, as long as you guys don't get all bent out of shape next time I refer to our mentally disabled (dyslexic) President as a retarded idiot.

Mephisto2

Somehow I'm not surprised.

One shudders to think what you call blacks, Japanese and Irish in your household.

Mr Mephisto

alansmithee

It shouldn't be forced on businesses to provide ramps. They can if they want, but what reason should it be forced upon them?

Funny, I never stated in my post that I wasn't in favor of a free market and businesses being able to produce items for particular segments of society. Obviously people desire these things, why shouldn't they be allowed to manufacture and sell them?

What's honestly wrong with that? If I have a friend who's only somewhat below average intelligence who has outbursts, he's an "asshole" or "jerk". Why not just accept his lack of self-control as well? Maybe he's also scared by the "frentic rush of modern society". Why should I have to be disturbed needlessly whether it be at a movie theater, restaraunt, or a church service. As someone earlier posted why should my rights be infringed upon?

For all the sarcasm, I didn't see a logical refutation of the points I tried to make. I did see a lot of sweeping generalizations, however. You were arguing for integration and normalization of people, but seem to fail to see the contradictory nature of that position. There's a story by Kurt Vonnegut called Harrison Bergeron that shows what happens when you try to simultaneously normalize and integrate people who unfortunately are disabled.

alansmithee

So now if you're black, Japanese or Irish you're disabled?

Mephisto2

Yes it should.

If you don't honestly see the reason, then there's nothing I can do to convince you otherwise. Personally, I'm not sure who exactly is the "asshole" or "jerk". The person with mental disabilities or the closeminded person who thinks they should not be treated with understanding and compassion.


Mr Mephisto

Mephisto2

WTF?!

Erm.. no. I presume you're just being a smart-ass and didn't really think I said that? Reread the quotation and response, carefully, if you did.


Mr Mephisto

alansmithee

Again, I didn't see where you gave a reason why a business should have to pay for someone else's misfortunes, especially when they might not ever come into contact with someone in a wheelchair. And being closeminded has little to do with accepting a particular belief, it has to do with being open to different possibilities. It seems more closeminded to think that someone's physical status should immediately determine how society should treat them.

As for the other comment, I reread the posts, and irseg commented on seeing mentally challenged people called idiots, you assumed he would call various ethnicities names. That to me seems to show you see those groups as being disabled, if they are all lumped in the same category.

irseg

I call them blacks, Japanese, and Irish. They're accurate, descriptive, to the point, and never intended to be offensive. Same with the word "retarded". Why invent new terms that are wordier and less descriptive for no damn reason?

Mephisto2

Because it's discriminatory to prevent them access to areas simply due to their disabilities. I'm not sure about the US, but in Europe there are laws that require wheelchair access be provided; as it should be, in my opinion.

Seems to me that you simply don't believe that their special circumstances deserve special consideration. I think you're wrong, but you're perfectly entitled to your opinion. On a related note, I just hope you never become disabled yourself through accident or disase, and have to face a world like the one you seem to support now.

Mr Mephisto

snowy

Wow, it's interesting to see how far this topic has gone. I'll add my two cents.

Here is how I see it:
A church is God's house. A priest is there as God's representative. What the priest did, in asking the disabled man to be removed, goes against the second most important commandment: Love your neighbor as yourself. If you were in that young man's shoes, wouldn't you desire compassion from others? Understanding? I think so. This priest, by insisting that the young man be removed, showed a definite lack of both. Everyone has the right to be in God's house--everyone, even bums, even drunkards. It's not up to us to discriminate so, for we are all equal in the eyes of God, and he is the one who judges.

After all, Jesus did say, "Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth."

__________________
If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

BonesCPA

In the US there were laws passed (See:ADA previously mentioned) that required accessibility in any new construction (some minor exceptions, eg. single family residential housing). It also required retrofitting in any building where renovations were being made. It was so well written, that if you made any adjustments to the existing structure, you had to make additional changes to areas that weren't even being affected. Cities even had time frames to make curb cuts.

I consider dignity solid reason. I'm probably just too compassionate though.

And I guess you don't understand why businesses need to let individuals of other races, creeds or color into their business either. I am sure you would agree that civil rights is good in theory, but not in practice.

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Back into hibernation.

irseg

Obviously being retarded isn't a good thing. But you can't make their problems go away by using a wordier, more vague term to describe their disability. Either way they're still just as retarded.

My aunt helps these people for a living by serving as a caretaker, helping them get jobs, and so on. Know what she and her colleagues call them? "'tards". And she does infinitely more to actually help them than any PC freaks do by sitting around calling them "intellectually differently abled" or whatever the bullshit term of the day is.

ShaniFaye

I've done an infinite amount of work with them as well and I could NEVER ever call them "tards".

chalk me up to being too compassionate as well

__________________
I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

Mephisto2

Good for your aunt for doing the work.
Bad for your aunt for maintaining sterotypes and using insulting language.

What's your point?

It's OK because your aunt does it?


Mr Mephisto

BonesCPA

Unfortunately, because of the low pay for those who work in this field, there are essentially two types of individuals who will take a job working in the disability community:those who have a desire to assist in adding fulfillment to the lives of others, and those with minimal education and skills. Generally the first are in advocacy and education roles, the second are in "caretaker" roles. It's hard to find quality staff when you are competing with jobs that the main key to employment is remembering to ask "do you want fries with that".

And don't forget "these people" did nothing to bring about their condition, and can not reverse or correct their situation. Be my guest and continue to use the term retarded, as it feels most comfortable to you. Just keep in mind, you are using a term that is equivalent to the "N-word".

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Back into hibernation.

Lebell

"retarded"
"blind"
"deaf"

are all perfectly good words that have had negative conotations attached to them through usage with scorn.

What is to say that "developmentally disabled" won't be the same some day? ("Hey look! There's that stupid DD kid!")

We need to attack the root of the problem, that is, people's attitudes and not the symptoms.

__________________
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cyrnel

Lebell, I'm not sure those are equals. Blind and deaf are factual, but retarded seems to me borne of a shortcut. In diagnosis & treatment. A catchall for those not able to keep up, whatever the affliction. Is there a better catch-all? Should there be?

irseg

Yes! That's what I was trying to say. It used to be "idiot" was a medical term that came to be considered offensive, then "retard" replaced it. Once that became offensive it was "mentally handicapped", then THAT was no longer kosher so it became "developmentally challenged", and so on. It's clear where this is going. Where do you draw the line? Coming up with new combinations of words won't solve a damn thing!

By the way, my aunt quit her job that paid over twice as much because she wanted to get into social work, and she's been doing it for the past 10+ years. And as a lesbian, she has some experience with discrimination. But it sure was interesting to see a good example of a stereotype against those who choose not to subscribe to the BS politically-correct term du jour.

Mephisto2

Actually, no.

Retarded was the term. "Retard" is a derogatory derivation of that original term. Retard was NEVER considered acceptable, in the same way "spa" was never considered an acceptable description of "spastic".

Language evolves; we all agree that. Some words that were acceptable and contemporaneously appropriate have since fallen out of fashion. But some words always were, and always will be, simply offensive.

Please do not confuse the two.

I believe that mentally handicaped or mentally disabled are still acceptable. In most areas and certainly outside the US in anycase. The use of the term "developmentally challenged" is actually incorrect and would draw peals of laughter in many European countries.

[quote]
It's clear where this is going. Where do you draw the line? Coming up with new combinations of words won't solve a damn thing!

Does she like being called a dyke, a carpet muncher, a bulldozer, a c*nt muncher, a faggot, etc etc?

I wonder.


Huh?



Mr Mephisto

BonesCPA

You recognize that it is an offensive term, yet you continue to use it? So this isn't a "I didn't know better" situation. This is a "I don't care who I offend or denegrate" situation. Gotcha.

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Back into hibernation.

Justsomeguy

If the congregation walked out, I would think there is a deeper problem within the church.

I doubt the priest wanted the people there to begin with. It reminds me of the commercial of the United Church of Christ commercial. People were so upset about that commercial, but it's true. I go to church regularly and I definitely see it going on. It goes on anywhere you look and normally you can just avoid it. But, having a priest with that attitude would definitely make the situation a little more sticky.

On a side note, I've seen people in my college leapfrog people in wheelchairs to get on the elevator rather than taking the stairs. Recent my family took a trip to Disney World, I saw a guy in a wheelchair get pushed over by a crowd headed to fantasmic. And also people in line talk about how lucky the guy in the wheelchair(missing a leg) was because he got to the front of the line in space mountain. People definitely can amaze you and I agree that handicapped people often get treated very poorly.