Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community  

Go Back   Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community > The Academy > Tilted Politics


 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 12-10-2004, 12:44 PM   #1 (permalink)
Crazy
 
Ballzor's Avatar
 
Location: Bat Country
"U.S. Soldier Guilty of Killing Iraqi Teen"

U.S. Soldier Guilty of Killing Iraqi Teen

I have a feeling that many of you thought exactly what I did when first reading the headline for this article.

"Previous military court hearings have heard that several troops had fired on a group of Iraqi men placing homemade bombs along a road in Sadr City. Soldiers from the same battalion arrived on the scene to find a burning truck and casualties around it.


According to accounts given by witnesses at previous hearings, the soldiers, including Horne, tried to rescue an Iraqi casualty from inside the vehicle. The victim had severe abdominal wounds and burns and was thought by several of the witnesses to be beyond medical help.


The criminal investigator had said that the U.S. soldiers had decided that ``the best course of action was to put (the victim) out of his misery.''"

The Title really says it all doesn't it.
Ballzor is offline  
Old 12-10-2004, 12:50 PM   #2 (permalink)
Getting Medieval on your ass
 
Coppertop's Avatar
 
Location: 13th century Europe
While the title is true, the actual story isn't what most would think of immediately I would imagine.
Coppertop is offline  
Old 12-10-2004, 12:55 PM   #3 (permalink)
Kiss of Death
 
Location: Perpetual wind and sorrow
Maybe we should start cropping all these American killing Iraqi posts...
__________________
To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition.
Mojo_PeiPei is offline  
Old 12-10-2004, 12:57 PM   #4 (permalink)
Junkie
 
powerclown's Avatar
 
Location: Detroit, MI
"A Taste of Armageddon" is one of classic Trek's occasional, obvious metaphors for the absurdity of the then-cold war between East and West. Gene Lyons stars as a Federation ambassador named Fox, who boards the Enterprise to reach the planet Eminiar VII, where he hopes to negotiate a peace treaty with the inhabitants. Instead the crew of the Enterprise gets caught in the middle of an interplanetary war between Eminiar and neighboring planet Vendikar. The twist is that the war is being fought on computers, and compliant residents of those "destroyed" areas obediently report to disintegration chambers, where their "virtual" death is made literal.

When the Enterprise is "hit" in one of these simulations, both the warlords of Eminiar VII and Ambassador Fox fully expect Capt. Kirk and crew to report to the disintegration center. The feisty Kirk has other plans, of course. And while the madness of this controlled Armageddon makes a suitably surreal satire of the arms race in the 1960s, the story also evoked the endless, daily reports of body counts during the Vietnam War, with no resolution in sight. Aside from its parable aspect, however, the episode gave Kirk one of his earliest and most compelling scenes of Kirkian preachiness in a bold monologue about peace, reportedly written and rewritten numerous times by series producer and indispensable creative hand Gene L. Coon.

powerclown is offline  
Old 12-10-2004, 03:32 PM   #5 (permalink)
Cracking the Whip
 
Lebell's Avatar
 
Location: Sexymama's arms...
Isn't it one of life's strange coincidences that I just watched that very Star Trek episode about 2 hours ago...and I really don't see the connection to this situation.
__________________
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis

The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU!

Please Donate!
Lebell is offline  
Old 12-10-2004, 10:22 PM   #6 (permalink)
Junkie
 
powerclown's Avatar
 
Location: Detroit, MI
<img src="http://www.angband.com/towers/images/playerart/cavetroll.jpg" width=640>

Last edited by MSD; 12-11-2004 at 10:44 AM.. Reason: Resizing picture to avoid breaking tables
powerclown is offline  
Old 12-11-2004, 10:13 AM   #7 (permalink)
Junk
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojo_PeiPei
Maybe we should start cropping all these American killing Iraqi posts...
Now that wouldn't be very democratic and we all know non-democratic entities are terroristic in every sense of the word.

edit; I certainly hope an Iraqi doesn't see a badly injured American and put him out of his misery. Of course it's apples and oranges.
__________________
" In Canada, you can tell the most blatant lie in a calm voice, and people will believe you over someone who's a little passionate about the truth." David Warren, Western Standard.

Last edited by OFKU0; 12-11-2004 at 10:19 AM..
OFKU0 is offline  
Old 12-13-2004, 07:40 AM   #8 (permalink)
Muffled
 
Kadath's Avatar
 
Location: Camazotz
This is by far the most confusing thread I have ever seen here. Mojo_PeiPei says we shouldn't have threads about soldiers killing Iraqi civilians, powerclown says this is like a Star Trek episode, Lebell disagrees, powerclown calls him a troll? I am totally lost. I am so bewildered I have forgotten to think about the issue.

Also, I thought the policy was to post the article as well as the link?

Quote:
BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) - A U.S. soldier pleaded guilty at his court-martial Friday to killing a severely wounded 16-year-old Iraqi male during fierce fighting in Baghdad's impoverished Sadr City neighborhood, the military said.

Staff Sgt. Johnny M. Horne Jr., 30, of Winston-Salem, N.C., was among several soldiers who had found the wounded teenager on Aug. 18 in a burning truck with severe abdominal wounds sustained during the clashes. A criminal investigator had said during an earlier hearing that the soldiers decided to kill him to ``put him out of his misery.''

Sadr City was the scene of wild clashes earlier this year between coalition forces and Shiite rebels allied to firebrand cleric Muqtada al-Sadr, a loud opponent of the U.S.-led occupation of Iraq.

In a plea bargain, Horne, a member of Company C, 1st Battalion, 41st Infantry Regiment, from Fort Riley, Kan., pleaded guilty to one count of unpremeditated murder and one count of soliciting another soldier to commit unpremeditated murder. The charges are under Articles 118 and 81 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice.


``The convictions stemmed from Staff Sgt. Horne's murder of a severely wounded Iraqi civilian in Baghdad's Sadr City district,'' a military statement said.


Lt. Col. James Hutton, a military spokesman, said Horne had originally been charged with the more serious offenses of premeditated murder, conspiracy to commit premeditated murder and solicitation of another soldier to commit premeditated murder.


``He decided to plead guilty to the lesser charges presented to him,'' Hutton said.


Hutton said Horne was expected to be sentenced later Friday.


Horne is one of six Fort Riley soldiers charged with killings in recent months - two for slayings in Kansas and four for deaths in Iraq. Staff Sgt. Cardenas J. Alban, 29, of Inglewood, Calif., was charged along with Horne in the teenager's killing and is awaiting a court-martial hearing.


Previous military court hearings have heard that several troops had fired on a group of Iraqi men placing homemade bombs along a road in Sadr City. Soldiers from the same battalion arrived on the scene to find a burning truck and casualties around it.


According to accounts given by witnesses at previous hearings, the soldiers, including Horne, tried to rescue an Iraqi casualty from inside the vehicle. The victim had severe abdominal wounds and burns and was thought by several of the witnesses to be beyond medical help.


The criminal investigator had said that the U.S. soldiers had decided that ``the best course of action was to put (the victim) out of his misery.''


Another military hearing into a soldier charged with killing another Iraqi in a separate August incident in Sadr City is expected to continue Friday.


Sgt. Michael P. Williams, 25, of Memphis, Tenn., faced the opening day of an Article 32 hearing Thursday charged with premeditated murder, obstruction of justice and making a false official statement.


Two witnesses gave evidence during the Article 32 hearing, which is the military equivalent of a grand jury hearing.


Williams is charged in the same case along with Spc. Brent May, 22, of Salem, Ohio, who faced a two-day hearing this week and is awaiting a ruling on whether he will be court-martialed, receive a lesser penalty or be acquitted.


Six members of his unit, Company C, 1st Battalion, 41st Infantry Regiment, from Fort Riley, testified in his case.


Earlier this week in Germany, a U.S. tank company commander accused of killing a critically injured Iraqi driver for al-Sadr was ordered court-martialed.


Capt. Rogelio Maynulet, 29, of Chicago, will be tried on charges of assault with intent to commit murder and dereliction of duty, which carry a maximum combined sentence of 20 1/2 years, said military spokesman Maj. Michael Indovina.


During Maynulet's Article 32 hearing, witnesses testified that the driver had been shot in the head when Maynulet saw him. A fellow officer said Maynulet told him he then shot the man out of compassion.
__________________
it's quiet in here
Kadath is offline  
Old 12-13-2004, 07:51 AM   #9 (permalink)
Pickles
 
ObieX's Avatar
 
Location: Shirt and Pants (NJ)
Quote:
Horne is one of six Fort Riley soldiers charged with killings in recent months - two for slayings in Kansas and four for deaths in Iraq. Staff Sgt. Cardenas J. Alban, 29, of Inglewood, Calif., was charged along with Horne in the teenager's killing and is awaiting a court-martial hearing.
Woa woa, hold on, back the truck up! *beep beep beep* (lol i hate when people say that )


What the hell is this part? ---> "two for slayings in Kansas" How did i miss this? What happened here? Who was getting killed in our country by our troops, and why? Anyone know anything about this?
__________________
We Must Dissent.
ObieX is offline  
Old 12-13-2004, 09:07 AM   #10 (permalink)
Junkie
 
powerclown's Avatar
 
Location: Detroit, MI
For the record, I wasn't calling Lebell just a troll. I was calling him an Ugly Cave Troll. WAIT! Just kidding.

Come on now: "U.S. Soldier Guilty of Killing Iraqi Teen" is really over the top. The Star Trek nonsense was in reference to an episode were 2 combatants fight their 'war' entirely on computers, where there are no actual bombs or casualties, but instead attacks are entirely computational, and people then obediently report to 'disintegration machines' - all in the name of avoiding the horrors of a real war.

More proof for the need of modern warfare to include embedded lawyers with the troops?
powerclown is offline  
Old 12-22-2004, 07:13 PM   #11 (permalink)
Junkie
 
james t kirk's Avatar
 
Location: Toronto
Quote:
Originally Posted by powerclown
For the record, I wasn't calling Lebell just a troll. I was calling him an Ugly Cave Troll. WAIT! Just kidding.
I thought lebell was female
james t kirk is offline  
Old 12-22-2004, 07:46 PM   #12 (permalink)
Banned
 
Rdr4evr's Avatar
 
You thought wrong.

By the way, is that the fucker from RE4?

Last edited by Rdr4evr; 12-22-2004 at 07:49 PM..
Rdr4evr is offline  
Old 12-23-2004, 08:19 AM   #13 (permalink)
Cracking the Whip
 
Lebell's Avatar
 
Location: Sexymama's arms...
If by 'fucker' you mean that troll sketch, it would be my guess that is the one of the sketches for LOTR, since that is the troll in the Mines of Moria scene in FOTR.

And the name confuses a lot of people, but you French speakers will recognize that 'le' means the male form as opposed to 'la' for the female.
__________________
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis

The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU!

Please Donate!
Lebell is offline  
Old 12-23-2004, 08:35 AM   #14 (permalink)
Tilted
 
Location: Alphen aan den Rijn, the Netherlands (find it on a map, it is there (somewhere))
Well as I see it, he did not kill the kid, it was the bullets. So yes he should be punished, otherwise we could all kill the terminally ill and sick at whim and that would be bad. Even though I understand his reasoning I can not respect his decision. Furthermore I do not understand the fact that you save the poor guy (very noble) and then shoot him. I would find that a waste of effort and time.
__________________
Somnia, terrores magicos, miracula, sagas,
Nocturnus lemures, portentaque.
Horace
energus is offline  
Old 12-23-2004, 09:47 AM   #15 (permalink)
Banned
 
Rdr4evr's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebell
If by 'fucker' you mean that troll sketch, it would be my guess that is the one of the sketches for LOTR, since that is the troll in the Mines of Moria scene in FOTR.

And the name confuses a lot of people, but you French speakers will recognize that 'le' means the male form as opposed to 'la' for the female.
Ah, I see! I am one of the few who have not yet seen LotR. But that ogre looks like the one from RE4 as well.


Last edited by Rdr4evr; 12-23-2004 at 09:50 AM..
Rdr4evr is offline  
Old 01-05-2005, 03:57 PM   #16 (permalink)
CMH
Upright
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by energus
Well as I see it, he did not kill the kid, it was the bullets. So yes he should be punished, otherwise we could all kill the terminally ill and sick at whim and that would be bad. Even though I understand his reasoning I can not respect his decision. Furthermore I do not understand the fact that you save the poor guy (very noble) and then shoot him. I would find that a waste of effort and time.
He had to remove the guy from the vehicle to make the decision. Just like how some rescuers end up going to great pains to rescue an already-dead individual who they think might be alive.
CMH is offline  
Old 01-17-2005, 12:09 PM   #17 (permalink)
Upright
 
Location: Georgia
Having been in combat I can tell you that dealing with wounded, be they yours, theirs, or civilian is a tough thing to do. During combat missions I lead I made it clear to my soldiers we did not wound, we killed. Following the rules of egagement is hard but as long as you can identify a threat with a hostile act or a hostile intent you can egage. A prone body or a body in a vehicle with a weapon in arms reach is just such a threat so you put two into it, then the man behind you does the same. Once you start treating a casualty you own him until someone or something takes him out of your hands this is the law of war. So before you touch a body you make sure the threat is gone.
texasmortarman is offline  
 

Tags
guilty, iraqi, killing, soldier, teen

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 04:57 AM.

Tilted Forum Project

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
© 2002-2012 Tilted Forum Project

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360