patriot act 2. the sequel. - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

pedro padilla · 12-09-2004, 08:53 AM

Here are some of the the sections of the leaked new top secret patriot act 2. gives George near dictatorial power and throws whats left of your personal freedoms out the window. read em and weep:

SECTION 501 (Expatriation of Terrorists) expands the
Bush administration'?s enemy combatant definition to
all American citizens who may have violated any
provision of Section 802 of the first Patriot Act.
(Section 802 is the new definition of domestic
terrorism, and the definition is any action that
endangers human life that is a violation of any
Federal or State law. ) Section 501 of the second
Patriot Act directly connects to Section 125 of the
same act. The Justice Department boldly claims that
the incredibly broad Section 802 of the First USA
Patriot Act isn?t broad enough and that a new,
unlimited definition of terrorism is needed.

Under Section 501 a US citizen engaging in lawful
activities can be grabbed off the street and thrown
into a van never to be seen again. The Justice
Department states that they can do this because the
person had inferred from conduct that they were not a
US citizen. Remember Section 802 of the First USA
Patriot Act states that any violation of Federal or
State law can result in the enemy combatant terrorist
designation.

SECTION 201 of the second Patriot Act makes it a
criminal act for any member of the government or any
citizen to release any information concerning the
incarceration or whereabouts of detainees. It also
states that law enforcement does not even have to tell
the press who they have arrested and they never have
to release the names.

SECTION 301 and 306 (Terrorist Identification
Database) set up a national database of suspected
terrorists and radically expand the database to
include anyone associated with suspected terrorist
groups and anyone involved in crimes or having
supported any group designated as terrorist. These
sections also set up a national DNA database for
anyone on probation or who has been on probation for
any crime, and orders State governments to collect the
DNA for the Federal government.

SECTION 312 gives immunity to law enforcement engaging
in spying operations against the American people and
would place substantial restrictions on court
injunctions against Federal violations of civil rights
across the board.

SECTION 101 will designate individual terrorists as
foreign powers and again strip them of all rights
under the enemy combatant designation.

SECTION 102 states clearly that any information
gathering, regardless of whether or not those
activities are illegal, can be considered to be
clandestine intelligence activities for a foreign
power. This makes news gathering illegal.

SECTION 103 allows the Federal government to use
wartime martial law powers domestically and
internationally without Congress declaring that a
state of war exists.

SECTION 106 is bone-chilling in its
straightforwardness. It states that broad general
warrants by the secret FSIA court (a panel of secret
judges set up in a star chamber system that convenes
in an undisclosed location) granted under the first
Patriot Act are not good enough. It states that
government agents must be given immunity for carrying
out searches with no prior court approval. This
section throws out the entire Fourth Amendment against
unreasonable searches and seizures.

SECTION 109 allows secret star chamber courts to issue
contempt charges against any individual or corporation
who refuses to incriminate themselves or others. This
sections annihilate the last vestiges of the Fifth
Amendment.

SECTION 110 restates that key police state clauses in
the first Patriot Act were not sunsetted and removes
the five year sunset clause from other subsections of
the first Patriot Act. After all, the media has told
us: this is the New America. Get used to it. This is
forever.

SECTION 111 expands the definition of the enemy
combatant designation.

SECTION 122 restates the government?s newly announced
power of surveillance without a court order.

SECTION 123 restates that the government no longer
needs warrants and that the investigations can be a
giant dragnet-style sweep described in press reports
about the Total Information Awareness Network. One
passage reads, thus the focus of domestic surveillance
may be less precise than that directed against more
conventional types of crime.

SECTION 126 grants the government the right to mine
the entire spectrum of public and private sector
information from bank records to educational and
medical records. This is the enacting law to allow
ECHELON and the Total Information Awareness Network to
totally break down any and all walls of privacy.

The government states that they must look at
everything to determine if individuals or groups might
have a connection to terrorist groups. As you can now
see, you are guilty until proven innocent.

SECTION 127 allows the government to takeover
coroners? and medical examiners operations whenever
they see fit.

SECTION 128 allows the Federal government to place gag
orders on Federal and State Grand Juries and to take
over the proceedings. It also disallows individuals or
organizations to even try to quash a Federal subpoena.
So now defending yourself will be a terrorist action.

SECTION 129 destroys any remaining whistleblower
protection for Federal agents.

SECTION 202 allows corporations to keep secret their
activities with toxic biological, chemical or
radiological materials.

SECTION 205 allows top Federal officials to keep all
their financial dealings secret, and anyone
investigating them can be considered a terrorist. This
should be very useful for Dick Cheney to stop anyone
investigating Haliburton.

SECTION 303 sets up national DNA database of suspected
terrorists. The database will also be used to stop
other unlawful activities. It will share the
information with state, local and foreign agencies for
the same purposes.

SECTION 311 federalizes your local police department
in the area of information sharing.

SECTION 313 provides liability protection for
businesses, especially big businesses that spy on
their customers for Homeland Security, violating their
privacy agreements. It goes on to say that these are
all preventative measures â?? has anyone seen Minority
Report? This is the access hub for the Total
Information Awareness Network.

SECTION 321 authorizes foreign governments to spy on
the American people and to share information with
foreign governments.

SECTION 322 removes Congress from the extradition
process and allows officers of the Homeland Security
complex to extradite American citizens anywhere they
wish. It also allows Homeland Security to secretly
take individuals out of foreign countries.

SECTION 402 is titled Providing Material Support to
Terrorism. The section reads that there is no
requirement to show that the individual even had the
intent to aid terrorists.

SECTION 403 expands the definition of weapons of mass
destruction to include any activity that affects
interstate or foreign commerce.

SECTION 404 makes it a crime for a terrorist or other
criminals to use encryption in the commission of a
crime.

SECTION 408 creates lifetime parole (basically,
slavery) for a whole host of crimes.

SECTION 410 creates no statute of limitations for
anyone that engages in terrorist actions or supports
terrorists. Remember: any crime is now considered
terrorism under the first Patriot Act.

SECTION 411 expands crimes that are punishable by
death. Again, they point to Section 802 of the first
Patriot Act and state that any terrorist act or
support of terrorist act can result in the death
penalty.

SECTION 421 increases penalties for terrorist
financing. This section states that any type of
financial activity connected to terrorism will result
to time in prison and $10-50,000 fines per violation.

SECTIONS 427 sets up asset forfeiture provisions for
anyone engaging in terrorist activities.

WillyPete · 12-09-2004, 08:58 AM

fuck.
A bit Orwellian.

any sources?

Stompy · 12-09-2004, 09:00 AM

I highly doubt it'll be that extreme.

If it is, and any part of it interferes with my life... the inside of someone's skull will get a very welcoming present

djtestudo · 12-09-2004, 09:05 AM

Searching is fun...
http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=76882

WillyPete · 12-09-2004, 09:08 AM

I see it's starting off in the same vein...

theusername · 12-09-2004, 09:18 AM

They still need votes from Democrats which I highly doubt they will receive.

flat5 · 12-09-2004, 09:28 AM

I'm searching to find out if this is a houx.

Google has brought me:

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Ci...riotActII.html

http://www.rense.com/general59/newsg...gisillegal.htm

http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0..._story_related

http://www.strange-loops.com/freeusapatriot2.html

http://www.americaforsale.org/patriot2.php

etc. So, it's not a joke. Drafts of the Act go back to at least January 9, 2003

omega2K4 · 12-09-2004, 09:34 AM

All hail führer Bush.

connyosis · 12-09-2004, 11:28 AM

1984 here we come...

Mojo_PeiPei · 12-09-2004, 11:42 AM

If I had a dime for everything I saw 1984 referenced witht patriot act here on this forum, I would be an extremely wealthy man.

You guys seem to forget that if the reality of the United States were so dire, there still is a means of correcting said wrong. Judicial review. I can guarentee that at the very least you would have the 9th circuit and the ACLU all over this. Until this is the reality, maybe you guys should lessen the dosage of heavy psychotics you ingest?

Lebell · 12-09-2004, 11:48 AM

The other got closed and this isn't going well either.

dksuddeth · 12-09-2004, 12:01 PM

This Patriot Act 2 is old. It was brought out in 2002 and every congressperson now knows its there. With all the ramifications that have been brought up about the first one, rest assured that the second one won't pass without it at least being read by all the members this time.

The_Dunedan · 12-09-2004, 02:37 PM

Kinda like that 3,000-page "intelligence reform" bill that just passed? You know, the one with the National ID/Database in it?
http://www.thelibertycommittee.org/update12.07.04.htm
http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul222.html

They didn't read this thing either; who knows what's in it?

dksuddeth · 12-09-2004, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Dunedan

Kinda like that 3,000-page "intelligence reform" bill that just passed? You know, the one with the National ID/Database in it?
http://www.thelibertycommittee.org/update12.07.04.htm
http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul222.html

They didn't read this thing either; who knows what's in it?

They held it up for a vote for how long? I'm thinking they read that thing through. They may not have liked some of it, but they read it.

Seaver · 12-09-2004, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Under Section 501 a US citizen engaging in lawful
activities can be grabbed off the street and thrown
into a van never to be seen again. The Justice
Department states that they can do this because the
person had inferred from conduct that they were not a
US citizen.

I stopped reading right there. This is a fake, no sources given. Just like the draft scares this is put out there to scare the public into not liking Bush... and is working just as well for me.....

pedro padilla · 12-09-2004, 08:46 PM

well first, oops, didn´t see the previous thread. second, as you can see this has come out varios times in various places. always pretty much exact on the same sections and wording. I personally doubt that this is fake. Y´know if congress wasn´t given or were refused the chance to look it over than I really don´t think the general population has a clue as to what´s in there. You won´t be informed until after the fact.
And Seaver, as far as that big bad draft scare? Give it a month after the triumphant 2nd term inauguration. there´s some new wars being cooked up. And I also think the whole idea is not to scare the public into NOT liking bush, It´s to terrify them into liking him. or at least believing him.

stevo · 12-09-2004, 08:59 PM

Some of you seem to forget that Bush is not going to be our president past 2008. We have a thing called term limits. He's not trying to become supreme dictator. He's trying to protect you. How many of your friends have been hauled off without ever hearing of them again? How many of your houses were raided because of the books you checked out at the library? All I can say is to get real.

pedro padilla · 12-09-2004, 10:01 PM

how many books have you checked out at the library? Go check out a couple on islamic peoples or maybe some pilots manuals or even a book about cuba.
check out some arabic news sites or anything high profile and outspokenly critical of the Bush gang.
bam. You´re flagged. You may not know it but you´re name will be in the banks. All I can say is to get informed.

Seaver · 12-09-2004, 10:07 PM

Quote:

as far as that big bad draft scare? Give it a month after the triumphant 2nd term inauguration. there´s some new wars being cooked up. And I also think the whole idea is not to scare the public into NOT liking bush, It´s to terrify them into liking him. or at least believing him

Might want to check your sources buddy, the draft documents to be voted on were put up by Democrats.... dont think it was intended into making people like GW

Bodyhammer86 · 12-09-2004, 10:12 PM

links proving the draft rumor is bullshit:
http://www.factcheck.org/article200.html
http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/d/draft.htm

Bodyhammer86 · 12-09-2004, 10:15 PM

from factcheck.org:

Quote:

Selective Service System: Notwithstanding recent stories . . . on the Internet, Selective Service is not getting ready to conduct a draft for the U.S. Armed Forces -- either with a special skills or regular draft.

Both the White House and the Pentagon have denied repeatedly that they're planning any return to military conscription. Here's what Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld said May 17, addressing the conservative Heritage Foundation (emphasis added):

Rumsfeld: I can't imagine our country going back to a draft. We don't need it. We're able to attract and retain wonderful people the way we're doing it as long as we provide the appropriate incentives. And certainly this is a country that's wealthy enough to do that.

The Scare Story

A different -- and misleading -- story is being circulated by e-mail and posted on any number of mostly left-leaning websites, claiming that the Bush administration is "quietly trying" to pass legislation to reactivate the draft, and that $28 million has been added to the Selective Service budget this year to prepare for a military draft that could start "as early as June 15, 2005."

The message is false or misleading on several counts.

--The bills are not being pushed. It's quite true that the two bills mentioned would require both men and women aged 18 through 25 to perform a two-year period of "national service," which incidentally could be either military or non-military service. But the bills are sponsored only by Democrats, and there's not the slightest evidence that the Bush administration is pushing for them, quietly or otherwise.

One bill is HR 163 , whose principal sponsor is Democratic Rep. Charles Rangel of New York. It has 14 co-sponsors, all of them Democrats in a Congress controlled by Republicans. The bill was dead on arrival: it sits in a House subcommittee with no hearings or votes scheduled and no action expected.

In fact, Rangel told FactCheck.org through his spokesman Emile Milne that even he isn't pushing for passage, let alone Bush (emphasis added):

Rep. Rangel: I'm not pushing this bill . It's up to the President to come to me when he needs it.

The identical Senate bill, S. 89 , introduced by Democratic Sen. Ernest Hollings, and also was DOA. Not one other senator has co-sponsored it. It also sits in committee with no action scheduled or expected.

Both bills in question were drawn up before the Iraq war started, mostly to make a political point. Rangel said he acted to highlight Democratic objections to use of military force against Saddam Hussein. He wrote , "I truly believe that decision-makers who support war would more readily feel the pain of conflict and appreciate the sacrifice of those on the front lines if their children were there, too."

The Selective Service Budget has not been increased. The scare story also gets it wrong when it claims the budget for the Selective Service is being increased by $28 million in 2004. In fact, the Selective Service System's budget is flat. Its total operating budget was $26 million in fiscal year 2003 (which ended last Sept. 30), and is $26 million for fiscal 2004 as well. Furthermore, the President is asking for $26 million again for fiscal year 2005, and the Office of Management and Budget actually projects that the agency will shrink in size from 161 employees to 156 next year. That's hardly gearing up for a draft.

Military experts say a draft doesn't make sense. Numerous news accounts have quoted military experts as saying a draft would cause more problems for the military than it would solve. Here's one example, from an excellent story in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette last month (emphasis added):

Pittsburgh Post-Gazette: "The draft would be the Army's worst nightmare," said retired Lt. Col. Leonard Wong, now a research professor at the U.S. Army War College at Carlisle Barracks. "We have a high quality Army because we have people who want to be in it. Our volunteer force is really a professional force. You can't draft people into a profession."

The Selective Service System figures it would take 183 days from the the time an order comes down to begin a draft until the first conscript reports for training. Training conscripts and forming them into military units would take many months more to meet the requirements of today's high-tech military. If more trained uniformed men and women are needed, it would be much faster to mobilize additional National Guard units. The Post-Gazette reports that of 38 Army National Guard combat brigades only three have been called to active service and four others were mobilizing, leaving 31 upon which to draw. (Note: National Guard Spokesman Scott Woodham confirmed these figures when FactCheck.org inquired on June 15.)

pedro padilla · 12-09-2004, 10:41 PM

hope you´re right but try and spend some extra time with your kids in the next few months just in case.

Bodyhammer86 · 12-09-2004, 10:45 PM

Quote:

hope you´re right but try and spend some extra time with your kids in the next few months just in case.

Sorry dude, but I don't have any kids seeing as I'm only 18 and even if I did, I wouldn't lose any sleep over this issue.

pedro padilla · 12-09-2004, 11:34 PM

well. spend some time with the folks then dude. You´re front line material. Get all the sleep you can. Baghdad and Tehran are fully radical for like the total raging night. dude.

Ustwo · 12-09-2004, 11:36 PM

Didn't we dunbunk this same ...umm...shall we say..... flawed analysis a few weeks back?

djtestudo · 12-09-2004, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pedro padilla

well. spend some time with the folks then dude. You´re front line material. Get all the sleep you can. Baghdad and Tehran are fully radical for like the total raging night. dude.

And you say others are blind to things?

Hypocrite.

tecoyah · 12-10-2004, 08:32 AM

Getting a bit personal in here

finger poised over the close button

Seaver · 12-10-2004, 10:56 AM

Well delude yourself if you must, the draft was already voted dead in the water, it's not coming back.

12-09-2004, 08:53 AM	#1 (permalink)
pedro padilla Insane	patriot act 2. the sequel. Here are some of the the sections of the leaked new top secret patriot act 2. gives George near dictatorial power and throws whats left of your personal freedoms out the window. read em and weep: SECTION 501 (Expatriation of Terrorists) expands the Bush administration'?s enemy combatant definition to all American citizens who may have violated any provision of Section 802 of the first Patriot Act. (Section 802 is the new definition of domestic terrorism, and the definition is any action that endangers human life that is a violation of any Federal or State law. ) Section 501 of the second Patriot Act directly connects to Section 125 of the same act. The Justice Department boldly claims that the incredibly broad Section 802 of the First USA Patriot Act isn?t broad enough and that a new, unlimited definition of terrorism is needed. Under Section 501 a US citizen engaging in lawful activities can be grabbed off the street and thrown into a van never to be seen again. The Justice Department states that they can do this because the person had inferred from conduct that they were not a US citizen. Remember Section 802 of the First USA Patriot Act states that any violation of Federal or State law can result in the enemy combatant terrorist designation. SECTION 201 of the second Patriot Act makes it a criminal act for any member of the government or any citizen to release any information concerning the incarceration or whereabouts of detainees. It also states that law enforcement does not even have to tell the press who they have arrested and they never have to release the names. SECTION 301 and 306 (Terrorist Identification Database) set up a national database of suspected terrorists and radically expand the database to include anyone associated with suspected terrorist groups and anyone involved in crimes or having supported any group designated as terrorist. These sections also set up a national DNA database for anyone on probation or who has been on probation for any crime, and orders State governments to collect the DNA for the Federal government. SECTION 312 gives immunity to law enforcement engaging in spying operations against the American people and would place substantial restrictions on court injunctions against Federal violations of civil rights across the board. SECTION 101 will designate individual terrorists as foreign powers and again strip them of all rights under the enemy combatant designation. SECTION 102 states clearly that any information gathering, regardless of whether or not those activities are illegal, can be considered to be clandestine intelligence activities for a foreign power. This makes news gathering illegal. SECTION 103 allows the Federal government to use wartime martial law powers domestically and internationally without Congress declaring that a state of war exists. SECTION 106 is bone-chilling in its straightforwardness. It states that broad general warrants by the secret FSIA court (a panel of secret judges set up in a star chamber system that convenes in an undisclosed location) granted under the first Patriot Act are not good enough. It states that government agents must be given immunity for carrying out searches with no prior court approval. This section throws out the entire Fourth Amendment against unreasonable searches and seizures. SECTION 109 allows secret star chamber courts to issue contempt charges against any individual or corporation who refuses to incriminate themselves or others. This sections annihilate the last vestiges of the Fifth Amendment. SECTION 110 restates that key police state clauses in the first Patriot Act were not sunsetted and removes the five year sunset clause from other subsections of the first Patriot Act. After all, the media has told us: this is the New America. Get used to it. This is forever. SECTION 111 expands the definition of the enemy combatant designation. SECTION 122 restates the government?s newly announced power of surveillance without a court order. SECTION 123 restates that the government no longer needs warrants and that the investigations can be a giant dragnet-style sweep described in press reports about the Total Information Awareness Network. One passage reads, thus the focus of domestic surveillance may be less precise than that directed against more conventional types of crime. SECTION 126 grants the government the right to mine the entire spectrum of public and private sector information from bank records to educational and medical records. This is the enacting law to allow ECHELON and the Total Information Awareness Network to totally break down any and all walls of privacy. The government states that they must look at everything to determine if individuals or groups might have a connection to terrorist groups. As you can now see, you are guilty until proven innocent. SECTION 127 allows the government to takeover coroners? and medical examiners operations whenever they see fit. SECTION 128 allows the Federal government to place gag orders on Federal and State Grand Juries and to take over the proceedings. It also disallows individuals or organizations to even try to quash a Federal subpoena. So now defending yourself will be a terrorist action. SECTION 129 destroys any remaining whistleblower protection for Federal agents. SECTION 202 allows corporations to keep secret their activities with toxic biological, chemical or radiological materials. SECTION 205 allows top Federal officials to keep all their financial dealings secret, and anyone investigating them can be considered a terrorist. This should be very useful for Dick Cheney to stop anyone investigating Haliburton. SECTION 303 sets up national DNA database of suspected terrorists. The database will also be used to stop other unlawful activities. It will share the information with state, local and foreign agencies for the same purposes. SECTION 311 federalizes your local police department in the area of information sharing. SECTION 313 provides liability protection for businesses, especially big businesses that spy on their customers for Homeland Security, violating their privacy agreements. It goes on to say that these are all preventative measures â?? has anyone seen Minority Report? This is the access hub for the Total Information Awareness Network. SECTION 321 authorizes foreign governments to spy on the American people and to share information with foreign governments. SECTION 322 removes Congress from the extradition process and allows officers of the Homeland Security complex to extradite American citizens anywhere they wish. It also allows Homeland Security to secretly take individuals out of foreign countries. SECTION 402 is titled Providing Material Support to Terrorism. The section reads that there is no requirement to show that the individual even had the intent to aid terrorists. SECTION 403 expands the definition of weapons of mass destruction to include any activity that affects interstate or foreign commerce. SECTION 404 makes it a crime for a terrorist or other criminals to use encryption in the commission of a crime. SECTION 408 creates lifetime parole (basically, slavery) for a whole host of crimes. SECTION 410 creates no statute of limitations for anyone that engages in terrorist actions or supports terrorists. Remember: any crime is now considered terrorism under the first Patriot Act. SECTION 411 expands crimes that are punishable by death. Again, they point to Section 802 of the first Patriot Act and state that any terrorist act or support of terrorist act can result in the death penalty. SECTION 421 increases penalties for terrorist financing. This section states that any type of financial activity connected to terrorism will result to time in prison and $10-50,000 fines per violation. SECTIONS 427 sets up asset forfeiture provisions for anyone engaging in terrorist activities.

12-09-2004, 09:00 AM	#3 (permalink)
Stompy Banned from being Banned Location: Donkey	I highly doubt it'll be that extreme. If it is, and any part of it interferes with my life... the inside of someone's skull will get a very welcoming present __________________ I love lamp.

12-09-2004, 09:05 AM	#4 (permalink)
djtestudo Baltimoron Location: Beeeeeautiful Bel Air, MD	Searching is fun... http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=76882 __________________ "Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen." --Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

12-09-2004, 09:18 AM	#6 (permalink)
theusername Insane	They still need votes from Democrats which I highly doubt they will receive. __________________ ?

12-09-2004, 09:34 AM	#8 (permalink)
omega2K4 Natalie Portman is sexy. Location: The Outer Rim	All hail führer Bush. __________________ "While the State exists there can be no freedom. When there is freedom there will be no State." - Vladimir Ilyich Lenin "Reason has always existed, but not always in a reasonable form."- Karl Marx

12-09-2004, 08:58 AM	#2 (permalink)
WillyPete Addict	fuck. A bit Orwellian. any sources?

12-09-2004, 09:08 AM	#5 (permalink)
WillyPete Addict	I see it's starting off in the same vein...

12-09-2004, 09:28 AM	#7 (permalink)
flat5 Very Insignificant Pawn Location: Amsterdam, NL	I'm searching to find out if this is a houx. Google has brought me: http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Ci...riotActII.html http://www.rense.com/general59/newsg...gisillegal.htm http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0..._story_related http://www.strange-loops.com/freeusapatriot2.html http://www.americaforsale.org/patriot2.php etc. So, it's not a joke. Drafts of the Act go back to at least January 9, 2003

12-09-2004, 11:28 AM	#9 (permalink)
connyosis Psycho Location: Sweden - Land of the sodomite damned	1984 here we come... __________________ If atheism is a religion, then not collecting stamps is a hobby.

12-09-2004, 11:42 AM	#10 (permalink)
Mojo_PeiPei Kiss of Death Location: Perpetual wind and sorrow	If I had a dime for everything I saw 1984 referenced witht patriot act here on this forum, I would be an extremely wealthy man. You guys seem to forget that if the reality of the United States were so dire, there still is a means of correcting said wrong. Judicial review. I can guarentee that at the very least you would have the 9th circuit and the ACLU all over this. Until this is the reality, maybe you guys should lessen the dosage of heavy psychotics you ingest? __________________ To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition.

12-09-2004, 11:48 AM	#11 (permalink)
Lebell Cracking the Whip Location: Sexymama's arms...	The other got closed and this isn't going well either. __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate!

12-09-2004, 12:01 PM	#12 (permalink)
dksuddeth Junkie Location: bedford, tx	This Patriot Act 2 is old. It was brought out in 2002 and every congressperson now knows its there. With all the ramifications that have been brought up about the first one, rest assured that the second one won't pass without it at least being read by all the members this time. __________________ "no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him."

12-09-2004, 02:37 PM	#13 (permalink)
The_Dunedan Junkie	Kinda like that 3,000-page "intelligence reform" bill that just passed? You know, the one with the National ID/Database in it? http://www.thelibertycommittee.org/update12.07.04.htm http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul222.html They didn't read this thing either; who knows what's in it?

12-09-2004, 08:46 PM	#16 (permalink)
pedro padilla Insane	well first, oops, didn´t see the previous thread. second, as you can see this has come out varios times in various places. always pretty much exact on the same sections and wording. I personally doubt that this is fake. Y´know if congress wasn´t given or were refused the chance to look it over than I really don´t think the general population has a clue as to what´s in there. You won´t be informed until after the fact. And Seaver, as far as that big bad draft scare? Give it a month after the triumphant 2nd term inauguration. there´s some new wars being cooked up. And I also think the whole idea is not to scare the public into NOT liking bush, It´s to terrify them into liking him. or at least believing him.

12-09-2004, 08:59 PM	#17 (permalink)
stevo Rail Baron Location: Tallyfla	Some of you seem to forget that Bush is not going to be our president past 2008. We have a thing called term limits. He's not trying to become supreme dictator. He's trying to protect you. How many of your friends have been hauled off without ever hearing of them again? How many of your houses were raided because of the books you checked out at the library? All I can say is to get real.

12-09-2004, 10:12 PM	#20 (permalink)
Bodyhammer86 Insane Location: Mattoon, Il	links proving the draft rumor is bullshit: http://www.factcheck.org/article200.html http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/d/draft.htm __________________ Pantera, Shadows Fall, Fear Factory, Opeth, Porcupine Tree, Dimmu Borgir, Watch Them Die, Motorhead, Beyond the Embrace, Himsa, Black Label Society, Machine Head, In Flames, Soilwork, Dark Tranquility, Children of Bodom, Norther, Nightrage, At the Gates, God Forbid, Killswitch Engage, Lamb of God, All That Remains, Anthrax, Mudvayne, Arch Enemy, and Old Man's Child \m/

12-09-2004, 10:01 PM	#18 (permalink)
pedro padilla Insane	how many books have you checked out at the library? Go check out a couple on islamic peoples or maybe some pilots manuals or even a book about cuba. check out some arabic news sites or anything high profile and outspokenly critical of the Bush gang. bam. You´re flagged. You may not know it but you´re name will be in the banks. All I can say is to get informed.

12-09-2004, 10:41 PM	#22 (permalink)
pedro padilla Insane	hope you´re right but try and spend some extra time with your kids in the next few months just in case.

12-09-2004, 11:34 PM	#24 (permalink)
pedro padilla Insane	well. spend some time with the folks then dude. You´re front line material. Get all the sleep you can. Baghdad and Tehran are fully radical for like the total raging night. dude.

12-09-2004, 11:36 PM	#25 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	Didn't we dunbunk this same ...umm...shall we say..... flawed analysis a few weeks back? __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

12-10-2004, 08:32 AM	#27 (permalink)
tecoyah Illusionary	Getting a bit personal in here finger poised over the close button __________________ Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

12-10-2004, 10:56 AM	#28 (permalink)
Seaver Junkie Location: Fort Worth, TX	Well delude yourself if you must, the draft was already voted dead in the water, it's not coming back.