Israel to treat same sex unions equally to heterosexual marriages in property matters - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Strange Famous · 12-09-2004, 05:15 AM

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/511384.html

Quote:

AG Mazuz recognizes same sex couples

By Haaretz Staff

Attorney General Menachem Mazuz is reversing the policy of his predecessor and now recognizes same sex spousal unions when it comes to fiduciary matters, including taxation.

Former attorney general Elyakim Rubinstein, now a Supreme Court justice, had decided in March 2003 that same sex unions should not be recognized by the state.

Mazuz recently issued instructions not to appeal a Nazareth District Court decision that recognized a same sex union in deciding on an inheritance. According to Mazuz's decision, the partners in a same sex union will be treated the same as common-law spouses, which, despite there being no formal marriage, are considered a legal entity for matters of property. They will be recognized as such in matters of taxation and real estate, and allowed to transfer gifts between them without taxation, by virtue of their cohabitation.

A senior legal source said that the minute the "dam broke" over the issue of common-law spouses, it also covered homosexuals and lesbians. A source close to Mazuz said, "there must be distinctions made between various types of property, with an emphasis on pragmatism and flexibility, in the spirit of the times and the changing reality as well as personal status, which requires a more cautious approach and is usually a matter for the legislature."

To me, this is the only way forward. As a religious ceremony, I believe any church has the right to refuse to marry people on any grounds which they wish - dictated by their interpretation of God.

But as a legal and civil contract or union, I cannot see how a political state can deny the right to marry to some adults and not others. There is no moral basis for it. Whether one believes God wishes only men and woman to marry each other is not relevant.

I have never understood why a person should oppose gay marriage... how does it hurt someone if someone else's relationship is entrenched or validated in law? What concern is it of anyone else what morality somebody else seems to have, if it does not cause harm.

I see a worrying trend, in both Europe and America, if this kind of "nanny state", of a so called moral majority who wish to enforce their moral values on everyone else - of a society who will happily watch a brawl at a basketball game but be shocked by the site of a bared breast.

Personal freedom - to do all things as we wish so long as they do not harm others - was one of the fundamental building blocks of America, and it is being erorded, I fear, every day. Although the UK is percieved as being more "liberal" than America - the same inbalances exist here, gay couples are denied the same human rights as straight couples in the UK as well.

WillyPete · 12-09-2004, 05:52 AM

Yup. That's why in the gay rights arguments I always make a point of reminding everyone that a marriage is usually made up of a religious ceremony and a civil contract.
People tend to confuse the two.

MSD · 12-09-2004, 07:04 AM

It's about time that civilized conuntries started doing this

Lebell · 12-09-2004, 08:01 AM

Bravo, wtg, Isreal!

Bill O'Rights · 12-09-2004, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strange Famous

What concern is it of anyone else what morality somebody else seems to have, if it does not cause harm.

Easy there, SF. You're starting to sound more like a Libertarian, than a Socialist.

Good post, by the way. Lots of good points...and I agree.

Yakk · 12-09-2004, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrSelfDestruct

It's about time that civilized conuntries started doing this

Um, civilized countries already have.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill O'Rights

Easy there, SF. You're starting to sound more like a Libertarian, than a Socialist.

Well, both Libertarianism and Socialism are great economic philosophies. Their only problem is, neither works very well!

Seaver · 12-09-2004, 10:30 AM

Israel you just got back my respect for you. Good Job.

Quote:

Well, both Libertarianism and Socialism are great economic philosophies. Their only problem is, neither works very well!

LMAO ah man... that one just made my day

irateplatypus · 12-09-2004, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strange Famous

I see a worrying trend, in both Europe and America, if this kind of "nanny state", of a so called moral majority who wish to enforce their moral values on everyone else - of a society who will happily watch a brawl at a basketball game but be shocked by the site of a bared breast.

the idea of granting homosexuals marriage titles is no trend, it's the way things are and have been. the only trend is for change. also, who is happily watching a brawl at a basketball game? all the coverage i've seen and personal conversations i've had roundly condemn it. these falsehoods slip into every thread and go unchallenged by those who will nod their head at whatever fits their preconceived notion.

Strange Famous · 12-09-2004, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irateplatypus

the idea of granting homosexuals marriage titles is no trend, it's the way things are and have been. the only trend is for change. also, who is happily watching a brawl at a basketball game? all the coverage i've seen and personal conversations i've had roundly condemn it. these falsehoods slip into every thread and go unchallenged by those who will nod their head at whatever fits their preconceived notion.

So who was fined for showing people throwing punches at a sporting event, who attempted to censor and protect "our children" from their role models giving in to violent urges?

This is not anti-US... I am talking about the "moral majority" throughout the East and West... from the people who claim it is an outrage and a disgrace if they see Janet Jackson's boob, to the people in Mecca who threw school girls back into a burning building because they dared to flee the fire with their face uncoverer... the threat is the same... the nature of the offence is clearly and inarguably very different in those two examples, but the cause is the same.

I have no doubt that many people condemn Ron Artest (for fighting back against extreme provocation imo)... but no one is outraged at the networrks showing and glorifyung the event... they are, it seems, if they see human anatomy on a TV.

MSD · 12-09-2004, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yakk

Um, civilized countries already have.

Last I heard, it was just Canada. That's one country. This makes it countries.

Sorry for the lack of clarity, sometimes I forget that the rest of the wrold doesn't know exactly what I was thinking when I write something.

OFKU0 · 12-09-2004, 11:07 PM

Canada is progressing into the 21st century by leaning heavily to same sex marriage and pot decriminalization to name a couple. And it is the people who are dictating change all the while those who feel morally superior are getting more paranoid and frustrated.

Interesting though how Israel is approving of gay marriage yet a week ago in Israel a billboard with Sarah Jessica Parker had to be 'fixed' because it apparently showed to much skin. I saw the before and after and didn't think the before was racy at all. If anything if they were to cover something up, they should have put a bag over her head, but that's just my opinion. Yuck,..facially I find her very unattractive.

Locobot · 12-10-2004, 09:37 AM

I don't understand how something like this can garner near 100% support here and yet legislation to ban this very thing in the U.S. is also supported by up to 92% of voters.

Seaver · 12-10-2004, 11:12 AM

It's not all bad Locobot. Here in Texas we shot down the ban before they even got a chance to vote on it, and we're not exactly liberal.

What I think it is is one big backlash against the suddenly overt trend of homosexuality. Just as the 80s prep or punk were backlashes to the hippy movement. Grunge as a backlash to the leotards and giant hair of the 80s rock. You see where I'm going.

Give it time, the bible pounders will find other things to scream about, and people will come to their senses, I'm sure of it.

12-09-2004, 08:01 AM	#4 (permalink)
Lebell Cracking the Whip Location: Sexymama's arms...	Bravo, wtg, Isreal! __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate!

12-09-2004, 11:07 PM	#11 (permalink)
OFKU0 Junk	Canada is progressing into the 21st century by leaning heavily to same sex marriage and pot decriminalization to name a couple. And it is the people who are dictating change all the while those who feel morally superior are getting more paranoid and frustrated. Interesting though how Israel is approving of gay marriage yet a week ago in Israel a billboard with Sarah Jessica Parker had to be 'fixed' because it apparently showed to much skin. I saw the before and after and didn't think the before was racy at all. If anything if they were to cover something up, they should have put a bag over her head, but that's just my opinion. Yuck,..facially I find her very unattractive. __________________ " In Canada, you can tell the most blatant lie in a calm voice, and people will believe you over someone who's a little passionate about the truth." David Warren, Western Standard.

12-09-2004, 05:52 AM	#2 (permalink)
WillyPete Addict	Yup. That's why in the gay rights arguments I always make a point of reminding everyone that a marriage is usually made up of a religious ceremony and a civil contract. People tend to confuse the two.

12-09-2004, 07:04 AM	#3 (permalink)
MSD The sky calls to us ... Super Moderator Location: CT	It's about time that civilized conuntries started doing this

12-10-2004, 09:37 AM	#12 (permalink)
Locobot is awesome!	I don't understand how something like this can garner near 100% support here and yet legislation to ban this very thing in the U.S. is also supported by up to 92% of voters.

12-10-2004, 11:12 AM	#13 (permalink)
Seaver Junkie Location: Fort Worth, TX	It's not all bad Locobot. Here in Texas we shot down the ban before they even got a chance to vote on it, and we're not exactly liberal. What I think it is is one big backlash against the suddenly overt trend of homosexuality. Just as the 80s prep or punk were backlashes to the hippy movement. Grunge as a backlash to the leotards and giant hair of the 80s rock. You see where I'm going. Give it time, the bible pounders will find other things to scream about, and people will come to their senses, I'm sure of it.