Lebell

The nuclear scientist (physicist, really) has control over the politician???

No. Mao said it best when he said that power comes from the barrel of a gun.

He who controls the army controls the nuclear program, and it isn't the physicist who controls the army.

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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis

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zen_tom

No, but Science is always the weakest link in the enforcement of political will. Mao killed all the educated people because he knew he wouldn't be able to control them - China is only now beginning to awaken from the shock that caused. Iran too may well have similar problems, since rationality and fundamentalism rarely go hand in hand - however, there is an educated middle class in Iran (possibly an educated middle class majority) who may well be in a position soon to overthrow the current religious government using the quiet, but relentless pressure of overwhelming public opinion. Pandering to the fanatic's wishes by threatening millitary action only keeps them in power for longer.

The army may well control the nuclear program, but the scientist will always leak the truth, and in the event of the use of a nuclear weapon, that is a truth that must never leak out. I just don't think it's possible.

Weighing these things up, I think it's far safer to play down the role of the Islamic fundamentalists, because that helps remove their power-base. Squaring up to them (when we as the west are have an obscene millitary advantage) just keeps the nut jobs in for longer.

If Israel had played a softer hand, and not posed as much of a percieved threat to its neighbours, the popularity of fundamentalism we see today would be much less.

Ustwo

Yes we all know scientists could never do anything evil, or persue a project without thinking of the consequences. There are no examples of this in our history. Scientists are a super breed of human able to dictate to the rulers what they will and will not do and have no fear for their families or ambition of thier own.

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Lebell

Paging Dr. Mengele, Dr. Mengele please report to the front desk...

__________________
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis

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zen_tom

Of course there is no hard and fast rule here, but I'd put far more trust in someone who has studied and worked towards finding the truths of the world than polititians and religious fundamentalists. The West is built on these ideals, and anyone capable of reaching the educational and technical ability of people at these levels is going to have a closer affinity with those truths than mere polititians.

Nationalism is dead, and if it's not, it ought to be. The Second World War was proof of the damage that nationalism causes, and I for one am not going to let it stand in the way of rational judgement.

There are better and more subtle ways of dealing with these kinds of issues, and like I keep on saying, displaying a threataning stance plays directly into the hands of the Osama Bin Ladins of this world.

If you don't trust the Muslims, then say so - The options are:
1) Treat the situation objectively and try to reach some kind of compromise
or
2) Adopt the final solution and wipe out those who pose any potential threat. We have the tools, we have the ability.

Personally I think option 1 is a lot easier for everyone concerned.

VTBrian

"There is a fine line between genius and insanity."
-- Oscar Levant

I wouldn't put all my faith in scientists. I mean what about the Russian scientists that were selling plutonium. Scientists are no more likely to resist the temptations of money and power than anyone else is.

zen_tom

Well I thank you for your compliment, I'll take genius every time

However, if you meant the staff of the nuclear facilities (cough) then no, they don't need to be geniuses (genii?) or insane. If that is a problem, then perhaps we ought to start locking up the staff in all of our nuclear facilities as well.

I'm not putting all my faith anywhere, but for a government to pull off the kind of thing people are worried about here and for it to escape the repercussions is almost beyond implausible.

What does make me worriy is how easily some people will believe the nationalistic line (both in the West and elsewhere) and that seriously does worry me.