Scipio

What a bummer this election has been. Back when a Kerry victory seemed like a distinct possibility, I was struck by just how tough it would be for him to govern successfully. The things he would have to do in order to right the course at home were almost without exception difficult and thankless tasks. Bringing the days of unrestricted pork and endless tax cuts to an end is not a fun thing to do. Finding a beneficial outcome in Iraq is much like looking for a needle in a haystack. On top of all that, he would be faced with an enraged and unified right who would work to deny him any victory, however small.

In fact, the only certain good thing I could see coming out of a Kerry administration would have been his supreme court nominees. He would have appointed the astute, fair-minded moderates that the court needs.

I suppose all of that brings me to Bush.

Us Democrats have gone on at some length about the problems that Bush has created. Now, it's up to him to solve them. Iraq won't fix itself. We have been ignoring it for the past few days, but as Ramadan comes to an end, that place is going to become as bad as it's ever been. Bush is going to have to decide just what he's going to do about the nation's finances. Economists say that things are going to get worse next year. We're not going to grow our way out of this defecit, and the Republicans in government are going to have to make some tough decisions. Perhaps Bush might even see the need to veto his first bill. Though ousting Daschle was a symbolic victory for Republicans, he was hardly worth the seat he held as far as I'm concerned. The Republicans in the senate will now face a bolder and more competent minority leader when they try to get Supreme Court nominees approved.

On the whole, I'm happy to see that the Republican party has taken only 10 years to become a decadent coalition dedicated to pointless social wedge issues, homophobia, bad fiscal policy, pork, and bad government. The future belongs to progressives, not to these people. We are patient. We will wait and build for four years, and then we'll be back.

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"Erections lasting more than 4 hours, though rare, require immediate medical attention."

SecretMethod70

bah the future doesn't belong to either of ya Go Libertarian!

(that's levity for those of you who may not be familiar with it in this section of the forum )

(...that too )

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Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

aliali

I'm not sure that this is the bright side, but since this must be a real low moment for Dems., I guess you are entitled.

Calling those that thumped you Homophobes may not be the best way to win next time. You might consider trying to win a few people over rather than calling them names.

Lasereth

The only bright thing that Democrats can do right now is stop calling Republicans idiots and ignorant followers of Bush. They're following Bush because they're Republican. There's no reason to do name-calling or bashing. The bashing is what caused many people to vote Republican this year anyway.

-Lasereth

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"A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert

superiorrain

At least the Democrats can now spend the next 4 years complaining about Bush and everything he does wrong. If you really want to look on the positive side of it all he only has 4 MORE YEARS!! after that its anyones game. We can all sleep easy in knowing that next time round there will be anyone but Bush in the Whitehouse and that must be a comforting thought. Lets just hope that the world makes it that far in one piece.

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psyday

The bright side may be that hopefully the DNC leadership will figure out we don't want billionare north eastern playboys that are so far left that it turns most people's stomachs.

I vcted for Kerry, more out of a vote against Bush, but it was with a Heavy heart that I did. There were so many others in the running for that ticket that I would have voted for with a much clearer conscience and I believe could have had a much greater chance of ultimately winning.

Scipio

So far left? Didn't most undecided voters complain that they couldn't tell his positions apart from the ones Bush took?

Two things: I'm completely optimistic about the implosion of the Republican party. They've abandoned their principles, Delay is about to go down on ethics violations, and even when they held control of most of the government, they did NOTHING with it of any consequence. All they care about is power, and at some point, the American people are going to stop giving it to them.

Two: I'm not just calling them homophobes; gay marriage amendments passed in 11 states. I'm not going on my desire to win; I'm going on the truth and my own convictions.

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"Erections lasting more than 4 hours, though rare, require immediate medical attention."

flstf

Unfortunately for the Democrats it looks like Hillary is now the front runner for 2008. No way can she win nationally.

adam

I'd like to see the exit poll supporting that assertion, because so far as I can see it's bunk.

flstf

If yesterday taught us anything it is that the exit polls this year were almost entirely wrong and cannot be relied on until they figure out why.

Scipio

You don't have to win nationally. Bush won in the south, border states, and mountain west. He performed poorly in the great lakes (though he managed a narrow in in Ohio), and won no northeastern or west coast states.

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"Erections lasting more than 4 hours, though rare, require immediate medical attention."

adam

Basically, Bush won in the sticks. He's not very popular in more urban areas. Opposite is true of Democrats.

Dyze

I think this election was a terrible failure for Bush. Do I understand this correctly: 48 % of the votes went to Kerry? That tells Bush that almost half of the country does not agree with his politics.
Besides, he lost D.C., San Francisco, L.A., N.Y. ... all the big cities that have the most to lose in a terrorist strike. They just don't believe he can secure their homes.
And I would like to know if even the billionaires in SoCal voted for him.

james t kirk

well yeah

BUT

3 million more people voted for Bush than Kerry.

That's what I find very disturbing.

That and the house, senate and the executive are all Republican now.

That's just down right frightening. Very very right wing.

America has never been so right wing as it is right now.

Dyze

You will hate me for that, but I don't care. Bush is the biggest threat to the world right now.

TheFu

Instead they will nominate a north eastern woman who is so far left her college professors called her a Socialist. Woops, sorry getting ahead of myself. 2008 will be anyone's game. My prediction is the Democrats will stick to the left and the Republicans will slide further right due to this years moral victory. It is going to be a mess.

psyday

While true when you take his run for the Presidency in a vacuum, when you look closer at his voting record and the stances he has taken throughout his political career, he really couldn't be much further left when it comes to the spectrum of positions throughout the democratic party.

I think it has been said before in another thread if not this one that it also might not be a bad idea for liberals in general to criticize the intelligence of people that disagree with their points of view, it tends to stop any common political discussion and it of course will never convince anyone that you have the better ideas and direction when it comes to leading the nation.

Like I said, I voted for Kerry in this election, but it was a very hard decision for me to make.

Anomaly_

You should be looking at the Democratic party critically then, too. I voted for Ralph Nader precisely because Kerry is not progressive. He shamelessly pandered to the religious demographic when we all know his own convictions are nothing more than a veneer. It saddens me that a good portion of this country is willing to forsake rational thought for regressive, hateful, Christian morality.

smooth

haha, fuck it. go for the jugular dems.

you guys lost because you didn't call it like you saw it: ignorant, idiotic, simplistic, ideoligical, & etc. voted for bush

go for it--I won't hold it against you. And it looks like the voters won't either.

trash politics mobilized the voters in droves. the problem seems to be that you didn't engage in it enough.

fuck listening to republican advice, it's obvious they don't hold your best interest. insult, inflame, chastise the population. that's the only thing that will get them off their lazy, white trash asses. Go jerry springer style. the educated people in the cities already have your back, that should be your clue. although there probably isn't much you can do to get the educated corporate suits on your side--but who wants em anyway, let them die on the vine.

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"The theory of a free press is that truth will emerge from free discussion, not that it will be presented perfectly and instantly in any one account." -- Walter Lippmann

"You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists." -- Abbie Hoffman

MSD

Scipio

So, uh, back to the bright side:

1. Bush really isn't so bad on national security issues. At least, Kerry wouldn't have been 10 times better.

2. Bush will have to clean up some of the messes he's made, mainly with the budget, the economy, and Iraq. He has no magic bullet for any of them.

3. Depsite being elected on wedge ("moral") issues like gay marraige and abortion, there's little he can do to legislate morality.

4. The Republicans don't have enough senate seats to force their judicial nominees through.

5. Second terms tend to go badly for presidents. Clinton had Lewinsky, Reagan had Iran-Contra, and Nixon got impeached.

6. Daschle is gone. The gain of a competent and tough minority leader will make up for the loss of the seat.

7. Finally, the Democratic movement is stronger than it's been in years. We have a bright future.

I suppose that's a better post than the catharsis I started with. What do the rest of you think about this?

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"Erections lasting more than 4 hours, though rare, require immediate medical attention."

Flyguy

Agreed. I think that this second term will go badly for him. In addition, he can now just throw his hands up and say "whetever happens, fuck it, let the next guy worry about it." This loss will energize the democratic movement and we'll come back fighting in 2006 and 2008.

Scipio

I didn't say it would go badly, just that previous presidents have had bad luck. That might mean we're overdue for a good second term. However, scandals and things have a way of catching up with people.

Word on the street now is that Ashcroft is resigning...

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"Erections lasting more than 4 hours, though rare, require immediate medical attention."

smooth

I don't think it will get you much farther than your party has already gotten itself.

I don't think conservatives believe half the inflammatory shit they fling out into the public discourse, but they do it anyway--and they keep coming out on top.

Follow my above advice whether you believe those things are true or not. Everybody I know talks shit about jerry springer, geraldo, and FOX--but they always seem to be tuning in somewhere along the line and watching that crap.

Just get crazy, inflammatory, and foul--look around, it's working.

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"The theory of a free press is that truth will emerge from free discussion, not that it will be presented perfectly and instantly in any one account." -- Walter Lippmann

"You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists." -- Abbie Hoffman

Manx

I would normally agree with this - except it is exactly what I have been doing myself for two years. And what I found is that it is too late for liberals to attempt it. The conservatives called shotgun on nastiness. They've monopolized it. Now, when it is attempted by a liberal, it is met with a blank stare by someone leaning right, because it can't even nudge the conservative nastiness that has already infested their mind, or an expression of shock by someone leaning left, because it is viewed as the nastiness that it is.

You can't fight fire with fire - and Rove held all the matches for years.

Nope. I am not a democrat, I am a liberal. And I see no bright side for America.

2008 - Hillary v. McCain/Guilliani - goes conservative
2012 - Republican incumbency - goes conservative because it has now been demonstrated that no matter how bad a President you are, you can easily achieve reelection by appealing to base fears.
2016 - Who knows. But after 16 years of Republican control, the Democrats are going to look like a 1968 Nixon.

Nope. Not a bright side in sight.

Maybe I see something, but it's so far off it's impossible to tell - a strong EU to put America back in its' place? One can hope.

SecretMethod70

*rejoices!!!*

I see a bright side though. At least, I hope for a bright side. I hope that either this causes the Democrats to implode a bit and helps the Libertarians gain. Or better yet that so many people who are Republicans due to fiscal conservativism (despite the fact Republicans have shown time and again that they are not fiscal conservatives) get so disgusted with a second Bush term that they defect to the Libertarian party.

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Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

FngKestrel

My view on this is that even if Kerry had won, he'd have just as tough a road to hoe as Bush will now have.

Predictions on NPR state that Democrats will have to change up their tactics if they wish be successful in the upcoming elections. Either redefine themselves or find some way to tilt the numbers in their favor.

The Republicans will have their work cut out for them too.

Ultimately, it's going to be up to each individual to keep vigilant that our country is being run the way we want it.

And the bright side, I'm glad to see that so many people voted. I just hope that the Democrats that did don't have the attitude now of, "I voted, and it didn't matter, so why bother?"

SecretMethod70

I agree to a certain extent. I actually hope that people start looking at it and say to themselves "I put so much energy into voting for someone who wasn't even the best match for my views simply because I thought he could get elected - and he wasn't. I think I'll vote my conscience next time." And I hope something happens to make Republicans do this as well sometime in the near future.

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Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

MSD

I also heard this wacky rumor that Giulliani is being eyed for a cabinet position. I'd be glad to see him take Ashcroft's place.


As for looking on the bright side, I'm giving the whole administration a clean slate and not judging them on past mistakes.

SecretMethod70

With Asscroft resigning, I may be willing to do this as well in regards to certain civil liberty issues.

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Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

yournamehere

That in itself is idiotic, in my opinion.
I vote for the person; not the party.

I'm a registered democrat, but I've voted for plenty of republicans, independents, and libertarians - it depends on what they have to say on issues of importance to me, and what their opponents say.

To me, anyone - regardless of party affiliation - who votes a straight party ticket hasn't done their homework and is voting irresponsibly. No party has all the answers.

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