ARTelevision

No way. This kind of post is not going to work here.

Do it once, we deal with you. Do it again and you're out of here.

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create evolution

daswig

What you NEED and what you GET are two different things.

Hillary '08!!!!

amonkie

Those who accept power with great reluctance, I think, are sometimes the best candidates. I plan on writing Colin Powell's name on the ballot in 2008, whether he agrees to run or not.

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Calling from deep in the heart, from where the eyes can't see and the ears can't hear, from where the mountain trails end and only love can go... ~~~ Three Rivers Hare Krishna

ravenradiodj

djtestudo, I'd be happy to leave the USA, but then I'd only be oppressed by our foreign policy. Hell, in the worst case scenario, I might even be "liberated" and get to watch my children die quickly by napalm, or slowly by depleted uranium poisoning, just because my president isn't friends with your president anymore.

tecoyah

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Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

Mephisto2

I think we're all weary.

However I suggest you be wary too...




Mr Mephisto

tecoyah

I am far too weary to be too wary.....but thanx for the correction....sleep is good sometimes

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Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

Mephisto2

Heh... just pulling your chain

Mr M

sob

No, this country's LIBERALS are sad. The fact that America doesn't support special privileges for gays, welfare for people who don't work, or the dishonest UN has just been demonstrated in a way that can't be ignored.

So when are you leaving for a country you like better?

tecoyah

Attacking opinion is expected........Attacking members is not

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Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

adam

Since when did the ability to marry a partner of your choosing become a "special privilege"? Give me a break.

shakran

Funny. You're obviously intolerant of any views that differ from your own, and frankly this country doesn't need that kind of attitude. If someone disagrees with you, you want them to leave? What kind of bullshit is that?

People are upset in this election not because we lost (hell dude I predicted 3 months ago that we'd lose. Kerry just wasnt' likeable, and didn't appeal to hardly anyone). We're upset because we've just had a major wakeup call. Our fellow americans do not hold the values that we thought they held, and that they infact claim to hold.

They're intolerant of differences, they like warmongering, they think it's OK to destroy a country on a whim rather than for a good reason .. . need I go on?

djtestudo

Considering you apparently only read the words "please leave" from my statement and neglected to read the rest anything you say will be pointless so go ahead if you want to.

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"Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen."
--Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

mml

Listen, as far as the nastiness and vitriol that has been a large part of this thread, you should be ashamed. Varying views and opinions are what make this country great and actually make us stronger. Dems do need to take a long look at their party and determine were they want to go. Reps need to realize that while they do have a pretty substantial victory, they do not truly have a sizable or stable mandate. They do control the House, Senate and Executive Branch and most likely will introduce a signifiacant Conservative bent into the Judicial Branch. However, this is a significant responsibilty, one they best not abuse.

As far as the ACTUAL TOPIC!

If his health holds up, McCain will run and will be a formidable opponent. Rudy has WAY too much baggage and I think he knows this. If he wants the White House, I think he needs some sort of official post, either elected or appointed. Bill Owens is a posibility, but I am not sure. Pataki is going to run, but I don't see him as being a player. Bill Frist is said to have his eye on 1600 Pennsylvania Ave., and by all accounts he is a tricky one. There is also rumor that Chuck Hagel is considering a run and I think he would be a good candidate. Jeb has said time and again he will not run. I think he has his eye on the Senate (pure speculation).

As far as the Dems, Hillary is an obvious choice. I think she is qualified, but it would be quite a battle. Richardson and Vilsack are strong contenders. Edwards has a surprisingly strong constituency within the party and particularly with the party money people. If he can find a way to keep his name in the public forum (maybe DNC Chair?) he may have a chance. Obama seems patient and is only 43(I think this is right) so he has many years to develop this. I personally would like to see Joe Biden or Bob Kerrey make a run. Also, while Dems generally don't like a loser, John Kerry may still run again. Many have said the Dems need a southerner, but who would that be?

If the stipulation about being born in America is overturned, look for a possible Schwartzenegger(sp?) run or as VP, but also look at a Jennifer Granholm run or possible V.P.

If he runs, I think McCain will take the nomination and likely the White House. I really can't say who the Dems will turn to, their are just too many questions to be answered before we know where the party is headed. Someone within the Democratic Party need to come through with a strong, clear vision if they want to succeed.

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Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so."
-Douglas Adams

wolfpack0102

I wish George W had not won the election. I think politics in teh US and Canada are in the gutter as we speak.

D Rice

I think Rudy would be a great president but i think he has got some baggage that would be exposed about his marriage and personal life.

D Rice

I wouldn't mind seeing people who were claiming if Bush won they were leaving to get on out. I wouldn't mind waving to Paul Wolfe as he boards his plane after his comments. Although, i think if people want to argue politics that is thier rights and that is what makes America.

yster

The problem here is that Democrats suck at politics, the game of it. You have to sell the candidate like a beer, most people recognize this at least unconsciously. If they had run Edwards as the primary and not the vice, it seems pretty clear they would have won. He's plausibly religious, southern, handsome and a much more naturally charismatic speaker. Why they allowed the Bob Dole/Michael Dukakis of the group to run is beyond comprehension. As for Hillary or Obama, we'll have to see how badly things turn out in the next four years. It would be great to get some diversity in office, but if it even looks CLOSE, pick a southern, handsome white man, period.
The president is just a figurehead for the party's objectives; the sooner the democrats realize this, the sooner they'll start winning some seats. As far as the campaigns themselves, go 100% negative. Slander the other guy like crazy, there has never been any proven backlash to this strategy. Even Daschle got taken out to this, the first time in ~50 years the minority leader got booted while in power.

cthulu23

Well, there's the conventional wisdom. Does anyone have anything new to say?

White, conservative, southern, handsome, unrepentantally negative...these are the qualities we need in a leader. Hell, who needs elections? Let's just make David Duke president for life.

yster

Unwillingness to do what it takes to win makes one a poignant martyr, but gives them zero power to effect change. Within the context of politics, these aren't even considered lies, just business as usual. When the job interviewer asks you "Tell me your greatest flaw", he's not asking for a flaw, he's saying "Describe a strength as though it were a weakness". Honesty does not reward in either of those situations. Knowing how to play the game, and telling the people what they *really* want to hear, does.

Mephisto2

It's sad but it's true.

Obviously the alternative has been tried, and it failed.

If you can't beat 'em, join 'em...

Mr Mephisto

McG

if the Dems would of choosen somebody that knew how to run a campain us GOP guys would of been in trouble.

Arnold for '08... Carry the usual red states plus california. slam dunk.

cthulu23

Let's forget that it was an incredibly close election that no one could call before it was all over. Truth has little bearing on the already burgeoning popular mythology.

BTW, Arnie can't be president as he isn't a native citizen. Score one for the founding fathers.

KMA-628

Based on what?

They didn't even win Edward's home state, how is it clear the would have won? C'mon, even as the veep candidate you hope that you can at least deliver your home state.

yster

Veep's are an afterthought. This vote was Bush vs. Kerry.
Personality, Spirituality, Geography, by running Edwards you undercut a huge portion of the 'default' vote for Bush. Since there was also a large "anyone but Bush" demographic, it would be easy to accumulate enough votes without even going to a single debate.

McG

Considering how many people are against the war, the amount of people who lost their jobs in the last 4 years don't you think the Dems should of done better?

smooth

not really, i think there are only like a few million (maybe 3-4 even) people mobalized against the war right now.

and jobs are coming back. but that's only half the story, because the jobs that are coming back to replace the lost ones are low income, minimum wage types. and then we hear the argument that minimum wage was never meant to raise a family. but if higher paying jobs are going to come back, they aren't coming back yet and certainly not enough to go around for everyone.

so it could take a while before people begin to start to question the president on this.

plus, I heard a very intelligent analysis on PBS wherein the woman argued that this cycle had a few things that allowed the administration dissociate itself from the job loss. for example, even before the adminstration came to power, their megaphone began to pump the message out that we were entering a recession (I'm not saying that wasn't the case, just that they set the stage to blame it on the previous administration whereas usually the flak would hit the sitting president when people realized a recession was upon them). then 9-11 happened and the administration had all sorts of instances to point to and shed responsibility.

and again, that's not to say he was responsible. but before I think people would get upset at their lost job and aim that at the sitting president, regardless of who or what was at fault. this time the president was able to dodge that anger so we didn't see much of that at play in the election that was expected due to traditional ways things worked.

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"The theory of a free press is that truth will emerge from free discussion, not that it will be presented perfectly and instantly in any one account." -- Walter Lippmann

"You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists." -- Abbie Hoffman

Sensei

A picture says a 1000 words...

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Slacking off with style since 1981.

n0nsensical

All I can say is I hope John McCain runs for president. I'll go to Arizona and beg him to run. He would win easily. McCain is politically the polar opposite of George W. Bush and it's amazing that they're in the same party. It's a shame for the U.S. and the world that Bush beat him in the 2000 primaries.

sob

Considering that you've already admitted breaking the law by not registering for the draft, I doubt that ANYBODY expects much of anything from you.

sob

May I interpret that to mean that you support the Constitution written by the Founding Fathers, or do you pick and choose the parts you like?

sob

Thanks for my laugh of the day.

If you drive on the left side of the road, does that make it an American way of driving?

If Judge Roy Moore lays claim to his identity by virtue of being a judge, does that mean if he posts the Ten Commandments in his courtroom, he is simply acting like a judge?

n0nsensical

I won't speak for anyone else, but I for one applaud him and expect him to be a truer patriot than the people insisting we leave the country.

Justsomeguy

Hillary would be a bad bad choice.

Generally, I vote republican, but I would trust Obama to run our country.

To those who have posted messages like this:
I'm sorry, but your attitude is piss poor. Let me get this right, your response to a politician winning an election that you did not support is, "Well, when innocent people die, I told you so!" Need I remind you that it is our government? It's not a secret that our government is very corrupt. Just look at the criminal history of many members of congress.

Shit, it's a POLITICAL win. It's not the end of the world. You'll have a new politician in 4 years. There is so many people that I love and care for, and so many things that I value about this nation. If a politician that I supported ran for public office and lost, then I can honestly say that I would not feel bitter about my nation nor the people that live in it. For those that think it's bad enough to leave and complain at how bad our country is becoming, do me a favor and move to Vietnam a few years.

Rdr4evr

Your post makes no sense, you just quoted something that I did not even say, then followed it with more non sense stating that I should not be bitter if my candidate of choice did not win the election? After that you went on and said I should move to Vietnam in a couple years? I'm sorry, but you lost me completely. Are you trying to say that I should support Bush and his destruction of America as well as other countries just because he is president? If that is what you are saying, than my answer remains as no, I will not support him like some kind of robot even though I don't agree with him.

sob

Got that right!

sob

So are there any conditions under which you would enter the military to defend our country?

smooth

I guess one could take what I said to mean that if I chose to drive on either side of the road, it wouldn't detract from my identity as an american.

Presumably, if one were to drive on either side of a road, provided one didn't harm someone else, that would fit perfectly with what I consider to be an american act.

Of course, I'm just indulging you. you made a series of logical errors to construct that analogy.


As for Moore, if his identity as a judge was his by birthright and that birthright was formalized in the very basis of society (as my identity as an american by birth is), then your argument would be correct. since it isn't, the answer to your ridiculous analogy is clearly no.


maybe I should make this more clear for you, since you seem to be unable to comprehend the difference or are uneducated on this topic:

my identity as a US citizen and any special rights afforded to me as a consequence of that status are not derived from my actions, thought, or desires. They are a consequence of my birthright. This, of course, does not apply to immigrants, who can have their citizenship stripped.

therefore, my actions, thoughts, or desires can not determine or change my status as a citizen. and in so far as this nation is constituted of its citizenry, not any other entity, their is no abstract entity that can operate externally of those citizens to lay greater claim to what is 'American.'

America is as americans do.

it's that fucking simple

if I want to walk around and be a commie, I'm an american commie, it doesn't suddenly make me chinese. there's nothing UnAmerican about me being a communist--because the framers of this nation didn't see fit to hinge this nation's identity, nor the people within it, to any specific economic form or religious form.

as long as I stand on my piece of soil and hinge my identity on my birthright, there isn't anything you can fucking do about what I say being an american means to me--because I own the rights to the meaning of 'american'.
the sooner you get that into your head, the better off you will be--because it's reality.

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"The theory of a free press is that truth will emerge from free discussion, not that it will be presented perfectly and instantly in any one account." -- Walter Lippmann

"You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists." -- Abbie Hoffman

n0nsensical

Yes, but certainly not to take over a country that has never attacked us.

sob

I'd sure like to hear more about what she's done.