Here is what I have to say right now to all of you who are whining.

Please leave the country.

If you cannot take the loss like Americans (and Kerry just conceded), and work to make changes like it is supposed to work, and instead will be whining, then please leave.

We don't want you here. For the sake of leaving America to those who actually have a desire to live here, leave.

I say please stay and be part of the process and the ongoing solutions. The future is still being shaped.

Stompy, what are you referring to? There is not a decisive majority in the House, Senate of Supreme Court at this point. It seemed clear to me that there is a near balance of power, in that a 3.5 million vote popular majority for Bush did not translate into large gains in the House and Senate.

I hope that they do as well, because that is what this country is all about.

If, however, they are going to whine like some have above, then I hope they follow through.

thomas frank is on the radio right now---he wrote "what happened to kansas?" and is arguing that if progressives are going to understand this farce that is unfolding around us as we sit here typing---his argument is that people need to take right media strategies seriously as an analytic probelm in themselves--because what explains this election, it seems, more than any other single factor, is the success of those strategies. from which follows an understanding of the types of media these strategies employ. which then connects to features of american social geography.

i dont think looking at this the other way round will help anything because you end up imputing alot of features to a population as if these populations carried these features around like balloons attached to their beltloops. there is a mediating system, one that is amenable to analysis, that has been amenable to analysis...

like gramsci said long ago, in a pre- or non-revolutionary situation, politics is a war of position. position is worked out across the modalities of cultural domination. the right is simply better at using this form of domination at this point.

:lol:

Nah, I'll stay. I'll have fun pointing and laughing when the next earth-shattering event happens with a big ol' "I told you so" to follow :)

Actually, Castor just conceded the Florida Senate race, so that makes a 54-44-1 balance in the Senate with the Republican leading in the Alaska race. The House is still close, though.

Ok, you do that then. I'll be waiting... :p

dj:
who the hell is this "we" you throw around?
what allows you to arrogate to yourself the right to define who is "american" and who is not?

if those of us who disagree with you politically were not just as much rooted in this godforsaken place as you are, then this whole farce would be easier to process.


thanks for thinking about the rest of us as people.
thanks for taking such delecate account of how difficult this place is for those who oppose your politics.
good job.


worse still is that i imagine this kind of discourse will get even more oppressive over the next four years.

i really look forward to it.

The "we" would be the people that are NOT bitching about the election.

Well, if the results turned out in a progressive manner, then maybe there wouldn't be any complaining.

Shit, a lot of states voted to decline rights to a certain group of people... might as well bring back slavery while we're at it, eh?

If a million people vote on a foolish idea, then the idea is still foolish. Just because the majority vote one way doesn't mean it's the right thing to do.

I just hope people don't expect anything from me in return in terms of support in times of need, because ... like I said above, we'll get what we deserve.

Oh, why not. Is their another heir lined up after him?

Everyone is complaining about how this country is being run in a terrible way. This country is so sad! This country is going to fall. We're doomed! DOOMED!!!!!!

Wait, Bush just won the election by four million votes. This means that a <I>majority</I> of the US believes in what Bush is doing for the US. Just because ya don't agree with Republicans doesn't mean the country is doomed as many of you believe. It simply means those with a different political faction are gonna be running the country.

-Lasereth

Couldn't have said it better myself :thumbsup:

The people will pay for their foolishness. I have completely lost respect for the American people, most of them anyway.

As for the 2008 election, I heard that idiot Jeb is going to run against Hillary. Imagine that, Bush for another possible 12 years. The country wouldn't even make it that far. Well, All I can do now is hope for an impeachment somehow. Maybe it will take another war or two for people to open their eyes, although I seriously doubt it. I will say this though, if a large scale attack the magnitude of 9/11 or greater occurs within the next 4 years, don't be surprised.

Well said, and I completely agree.

You have to wonder how effective US Defense has become when NOT ONE terrorist attack of any sort has occurred, on American interests anywhere in the world, to influence this vote like happened to Spain. And I can't imagine its for a lack of effort on their part.

Happy happy, joy joy, happy happy, joy!

I am of course quite happy with everything, but now its time to get to work. Its time to cut out the government waste, its time to cut out the vote plantations, its time to stop using the government as a way to redistribute wealth for votes.

Its time to see if they have the balls to do it or not.

To be fair, I think an attack could happen under Kerry, or just about anyone.

Short of a complete police state, it'd be impossible (financially and physically) to make this country secure as it should.

I think we'll always be open to attacks like this.

Personally, I'm more concerned about civil liberties and progression of science/technology.

To the topic at hand, in 2008...

I have no idea where the Republicans go from here. McCain is gonna be fairly old, Powell doesn't seem to want it, Cheney - if he is not in cryogenic deep freeze by then - is unelectable, Arnie isn't allowed, I heard Jeb isn't interested.

The Dems - Obama will be on the ticket as Veep, they will pick a southern candidate for pres. A northerner cannot win just yet, it doesn't seem.

Yet... but believe me, it's being worked on.

Look at it! It's mostly rural areas

Flyguy your definition of desert and mine must be two different things

You won't wait long. Enjoy the draft.

I can see an obama and hillary for the Democrats and then a Mccain possible Rice VP.
I think it will be hard for the Republicans to win again at the next election. There will always be problems and after having 4 yrs in control of the Republicans i think it will be hard to have the majority in everything again

Assuming you meant Condy Rice VP - Hahaha no. Won't happen!

America just re-elected Bush and a lot just denied rights to a certain group of people, do you REALLY think those same people are gonna vote for a black woman?!

:lol:

Yes, the country does need to progress in that manner, but I don't think we're too concerned about progression anymore.

I personally can't stand Hillary-- I really don't see her as being electable for president- especially not in some areas of the country.

Barack Obama is a rising star, but I'd say 2012 -- he's still new - he did great at the convention - but this is his first time in the national spotlight, he needs time to develop and grow, and get on some really choice committees.

As for him being black? Eh - I don't think it would be an issue, he's Harvard educated, which would appeal to the Yankee contingent - and has his roots in the midwest... I think it'd be a huge mistake for anyone to play the race card --either for or against him... I'd like to see what he could do against a more worthy opponent - -I think Keyes was a real sacraficial lamb --

Odd how no one here has brought the most likely GOP candidate in 2008...Rudy.

I don't see Jeb Bush running in '08. Bill Owens is a rising star in the Republican party, although he is going through a divorce right now which would hurt his standing with social conservatives.

I happen to love Rudy... I think he did a helluva job cleaning up NYC - I remember the days when you couldn't walk thru Times Square at night, and Monday mornings the trek from the Port Authority to the East Side you'd be crunching over crack vials and used condoms -- It's a cleaner place.. Disneyfied maybe - -but cleaner and safer...

Anyhow...

I doubt he's survive the primaries, I get the feeling that there are a lot of skeletons in his closets... that would definitely come out - Dealing with foreign policy? He's always seemed to have a kick ass, my way or the highway attitude (not a bad thing really) but his prosecutorial attitude would not win him a lot of fans... I'm not sure he had a lot of "friends" -- pre 9/11.

Regarding the Republicans in '08.

1) Rudy Giuliani

2) Bill Owens (CO gov., already being groomed for the position--the divorce thing threw a wrench into it though)

3) Colin Powell - absolutely won't (via inside info)

4) I would love to see Mary Matalin make a run, but I doubt she would.

regarding Rice:

She is a very smart, strong, intelligent woman. Who cares what her color is? I am hard-right and I would vote for her as a veep. A lot of conservatives that I know are very impressed with her.

To be fair, there are those that would take issue with her color, but I think the above statements are grossly exaggerated and highly inaccurate.

Now that I'd pay money to see that... Just to see what James Carville would do on the Sunday morning news shows :D

i have absolutely no problem with having a person of any color in the White House. the thing that worries me is all the racial issues that will have to be tackled when a powerful black/hispanic/asian surfaces. the birthpains of shaking out all the hype and superflous political correctness will not be easy. after the nation is accustomed to the norm... i think we'll be better off.

barack obama is likeable... but he hasn't done anything yet. everyone's a rising star when you've got an engaging personality, no record to weigh you down, and a vanilla stance on all the major issues.

Agreed............It is likely Hillary will be considered first....and rightly so.

2008, Hillary Clinton will run in the primaries. Whether she'll win the primaries or not, I don't know. For some reason, I don't like her. She just doesn't seem like the kind of person I'd get along with.

I do think that stuff is gonna get messed up enough that we'll elect a Democrat, though. Republican control of all three branches of government doesn't seem good to me. I can see a lot of PATRIOT act type stuff being passed after Osama hits Texas. Or at least, I would think he would hit Texas if he was gonna hit somewhere. But that's off topic.

You know what.. You don't NEED to get along with the President!!!

I'm sick and tired of the people saying "That Kerry.. He just doesn't seem fun!" "Wow, I bet Bush is great to have a beer with!"

These people are hired by us to run our country, not to play Scrabble on a Friday night with us!

I don't think anyone really knows. Usually there is someone who rises up. From what I remember, nobody would have thought Bush jr. would be the nomination in 1996.

I don't think Hillary will get the Democrat nomination, because alot of them are probably going to start resenting the Clintons hijacking their party just for their own personal gain. I know alot of Democrats didn't appreciate the old Clinton team's handling of Kerry, and there was some conflicts.

As for Obama, the Republicans wouldn't have to mention his race. They just show his smiling face in their ads, and all those southern states stay red (plus probably some of those nice blue NE states).

And I have no idea where the Republicans go. Cheney will be put back in deep-freeze for the next time hippies need to be put in their places :), Powell (who seems like he could beat anyone at this point, even after the UN fiasco) doesn't seem to want it (and does anyone know if he's staying as Sec of State? I had heard he was leaving after the election), and McCain will be fairly old by then. Maybe Rudy, but his personal baggage might be alot to overcome, plus it might be hard to keep his name around, unless he can get some office quick.

It's Rudy and Hillary--the election that didn't happen in new york in '00. Hillary might pick Obama, but isn't she from Illinois anyway? and she can't have a chance unless its already in the bag. She is going to want a man from a midwest state Kerry didn't win. Rudy should pick Arnold (knowing he can't be president) and go for the landslide.

Edwards will not make it. Didn't win his the vice-presidency, didn't even win his state, didn't even improve on 2000 in his state, and his senate seat was lost to the rep.s this year. I don't see where his votes would come from. In his entire career, he seems to have won only one senate election and only one primary (his home state).

Looking at how much red is on the map, apparently, they do have this small minded mentality about the president having to be a "likeable" person.

Ok - Now I like Rudy... but....

1. He cheated on his wife, in Gracie Mansion, perhaps wiht his kids in the house, with a woman (he later married) - -That is not going to sit well with the - -for lack of a better term - -the middle of the country -- I don't think it'd stay red.

2. He's a New Yorker -- and a die hard Yankee fan... That would put a lot of people off...

3. He pissed off a lot of New Yorkers for what were perceived to be violations of their civil rights -- (Quality of Life crimes) again - won't sit well with a lot of people...

here, get this:

a priori, I am an American by birth.

Therefore, anway I take anything is an American way of taking it.

In so far as I lay claim to an identity based on nationality, nothing I do can detract from that identity, which is based on birthright, not actions.

Deal with that.

Hilary vs Guliani

(Edited and placed on http://www.ventanger.com)

Most democrats don't stand a chance in middle America. Plain and simple, most of them are either too stupid, or don't give a shit about issues other than moral issues such as Gay marriage or abortion. The only way I see a democrat winning big in the heartland is with a candidate that is willing to make a stand, voice his opinion, and be far more charismatic than his/her Republican counterpart.