Capital Punishment? - Page 2 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

daswig · 11-01-2004, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smooth

excellent point--and the data backs you up. Murderers have one of the lowest (if not the lowest) recidivism rates. One main reason being that they are simply too old once released (increased age and reduced recidivism link documented for over 200 years now). Another being that most murders are pretty spontaneous--not like the general picture I think people form: that there are murderers and non-murderers walking around the cities just waiting to be discovered.

people who spontaneously commit acts of murder are almost never sentenced to death for it, unless it happened during the commission of another felony.

daswig · 11-01-2004, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bling

Yeah. Exactly. Most states do not have the death penalty - therefore it is illegal in most states.

This statement of yours pretty much sums up your entire position. 38 states currently have the death penalty. Source: http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/arti...1&scid=11#with

12 states don't. Source: http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/arti...cid=11#without

You're more than slightly misinformed.

bling · 11-01-2004, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daswig

This statement of yours pretty much sums up your entire position.

No it doesn't. But you're more than welcome to deflect from the crux of my position that I have repeated numerous times.

smooth · 11-01-2004, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daswig

people who spontaneously commit acts of murder are almost never sentenced to death for it, unless it happened during the commission of another felony.

Did you say at one time that you are an attorney? If you are the person I remember, you aren't a criminal trial lawyer. You should be aware that I'm in my second year of a Ph.D. in criminology--so my data may be more accurate than yours.

It's most likely that we have a different understandings of spontaneity. I'm not going to nitpick words with you, however, and I'll just leave my comment as stated.

Lebell · 11-01-2004, 09:10 PM

Opposed on philosophical and moral reasoning.

See the other threads Art thoughtfully linked to if you care to know why.

Rekna · 11-01-2004, 09:13 PM

If it can be proven that they are guilty of horrid crimes beyond ANY doubt (key word is any here as opposed to reasonable) and they cannot/willnot be productive inmates then yes kill them but use a bullet not a $100,000 needle. Otherwise put them in jail and force them to earn their keep through labor. Chain gangs are great. Teach them a skill and use them for cheap labor.

daswig · 11-01-2004, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bling

No it doesn't. But you're more than welcome to deflect from the crux of my position that I have repeated numerous times.

How does 12 out of 50 = "most"?

Would you care to provide a link to back up your assertion that "Most states do not have the death penalty - therefore it is illegal in most states."?

Your BASIC assumptions are wrong, and it's easily demonstrable. That bodes poorly for the rest of your argument.

daswig · 11-01-2004, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smooth

You should be aware that I'm in my second year of a Ph.D. in criminology

Let me know when you graduate, and we'll continue it, "doctor" to "doctor".

seep · 11-01-2004, 10:41 PM

Sissies.

Concepts like "morality", "justice", "rights" and "punishment" don't even figure into my reasoning one way or the other here - some people have nothing to contribute but misery, so if it can be done efficiently with little margin for error, euthanize them instead of babysitting them.

FoolThemAll · 11-01-2004, 10:43 PM

Opposed completely. Even if guilt is certain. I consider it murder.

But there are certainly circumstances where one DOES have the right to take the life of another (self-defense, just war). I simply don't believe that those circumstances EVER exist with capital punishment.

bling · 11-01-2004, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daswig

How does 12 out of 50 = "most"?

Would you care to provide a link to back up your assertion that "Most states do not have the death penalty - therefore it is illegal in most states."?

Your BASIC assumptions are wrong, and it's easily demonstrable. That bodes poorly for the rest of your argument.

Fortunately for my argument, it doesn't in anyway hinge on whether I was correct in the quantity of states which legalize capital punishment. Unfortunately for this discussion, you won't ever recognize that fact.

Kalibah · 11-02-2004, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoolThemAll

Opposed completely. Even if guilt is certain. I consider it murder.

But there are certainly circumstances where one DOES have the right to take the life of another (self-defense, just war). I simply don't believe that those circumstances EVER exist with capital punishment.

Amany murders occur inside prisons to other inmates OR to guards/ correctional officers

When your already sentenced to life w/o parol- prison is your playground

FoolThemAll · 11-02-2004, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalibah

Amany murders occur inside prisons to other inmates OR to guards/ correctional officers

When your already sentenced to life w/o parol- prison is your playground

Certainly. And when it becomes clear that a given inmate is intent on committing a murder, killing becomes a possibly legitimate option.

Lebell · 11-02-2004, 07:44 AM

Daswig, Bling (and everyone),

Sniping at each other has gotten this thread closed.

Take it up in another thread and it will get you temp bans.

So please raise the level of your discourse.

11-01-2004, 09:10 PM	#45 (permalink)
Lebell Cracking the Whip Location: Sexymama's arms...	Opposed on philosophical and moral reasoning. See the other threads Art thoughtfully linked to if you care to know why. __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate!

11-01-2004, 10:43 PM	#50 (permalink)
FoolThemAll Walking is Still Honest Location: Seattle, WA	Opposed completely. Even if guilt is certain. I consider it murder. But there are certainly circumstances where one DOES have the right to take the life of another (self-defense, just war). I simply don't believe that those circumstances EVER exist with capital punishment. __________________ I wonder if we're stuck in Rome.

11-02-2004, 07:44 AM	#54 (permalink)
Lebell Cracking the Whip Location: Sexymama's arms...	Daswig, Bling (and everyone), Sniping at each other has gotten this thread closed. Take it up in another thread and it will get you temp bans. So please raise the level of your discourse. __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate!

11-01-2004, 09:13 PM	#46 (permalink)
Rekna Junkie	If it can be proven that they are guilty of horrid crimes beyond ANY doubt (key word is any here as opposed to reasonable) and they cannot/willnot be productive inmates then yes kill them but use a bullet not a $100,000 needle. Otherwise put them in jail and force them to earn their keep through labor. Chain gangs are great. Teach them a skill and use them for cheap labor.

11-01-2004, 10:41 PM	#49 (permalink)
seep Tilted	Sissies. Concepts like "morality", "justice", "rights" and "punishment" don't even figure into my reasoning one way or the other here - some people have nothing to contribute but misery, so if it can be done efficiently with little margin for error, euthanize them instead of babysitting them.