cthulu23

I've never been a fan of Eminem, but I found his new video to be pretty powerful. Check it out if you're a Bush opponent or are just interested in seeing mainstream hip-hop finally tackle some politics.

http://www.gnn.tv/videos/viewer.php?id=27&spd=hi

Coppertop

GNN got me into Eminem when they made the video for White America. And I don't like rap. He definitely says things the governemnt would rather you not hear.

maximusveritas

Like you, I wasn't a fan of Eminem's previous stuff, but I have to admit that this is a great song and video. I expected to see something immature and cynical, but instead it was a very mature and reasoned call to action.
I really believe the young voters in this country are going to have a major impact on this election and videos like this will definitely help that cause.

Mephisto2

I liked that video for three reasons.

In order of "likability"...

1) It was artisticly a good video
2) It attacked Bush's war policies
3) It encouraged people to vote


Thanks for the link.


Mr Mephisto

jconnolly

I also enjoyed the video, not for it's lucidity of political comment or reactionary attitude - but because it mirrored a comment I heard once.

Rebellion in the form of rampant colourful protest is no longer threatening, but a uniformed, goose-stepping bunch of brownshirts (hoodielums? ) are.

yoyoyobro

Powerful! Really liked the video! Does anyone know the type of airplay the video is getting on music channels if any?

cthulu23

I just read that it's the number one video on MTV, whatever that means.

MSD

I think that means it's one of the five videos they play on an average day.

This thing is taking forever to load.

Rekna

good video.

This video brings up an interesting point. Since when has there been a president that rallied so much hatred against himself. First there was f911 and now this. Bush claimed to be a uniter and not a divder but he has definatly devided this nation into half.

hammer4all

Awesome video! Today it was #12 on TRL. Go vote for it here. It's called Eminem "Mosh."

ARTelevision

This video is a fascinating example of rabble rousing at its worst. As if letting this sociopath do our thinking for us will lead us somewhere other than toward furthering his career. It is symptomatic of the worst aspects of MTV “culture” in that it gains its power from phony spectacle and pure emotionalism and promotes mindless adherence to the shallow political views of entertainers and the entertainment industry.

This sort of demagoguery will be dominating our political thinking soon enough. It may or may not be sufficiently powerful to elect a President yet. But that day is coming soon. I find it most fascinating that we are discussing a cartoon here.

Mosh
------Eminem

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America
And to the Republic for which it stands
One nation under God
Indivisible...
It feels so good to be back..

I scrutinize every word, memorize every line
I spit it once, refuel and re-energize and rewind
I give sight to the blind, my insight through the mind
I exercise my right to express when I feel it's time
It's just all in your mind, what you interpret it as
I say to fight, you take it as I'mma whip someone's ass
If you don't understand, don't even bother to ask
A father who has grown up with a fatherless past
Who has blown up now to rap phenomenon that has
Or at least shows no difficulty multi-task
And in juggling both perhaps mastered his craft
Slash entrepreneur who has held onto few more rap acts
Who's had a few obstacles thrown his way through the last half
Of his career typical manure moving past that
Mr. kisses ass crack, he's a class act
Rubber band man, yea he just snaps back

[Chorus:]
Come along follow me as I lead through the darkness
As I provide just enough spark that we need to proceed
Carry on, give me hope, give me strength
Come with me and I won't steer you wrong
Put your faith and your trust as I guide us through the fog
To the light at the end of the tunnel
We gonna fight, we gonna charge, we gonna stomp, we gonna march
Through the swamp, we gonna mosh through the marsh
Take us right through the doors (c'mon)

All the people up top on the side and the middle
Come together lets all bomb and swamp just a little
Just let it gradually build from the front to the back
All you can see is a sea of people some white and some black
Don't matter what color, all that matters we gathered together
To celebrate for the same cause don't matter the weather
If it rains let it rain, yea the wetter the better
They ain't gonna stop us they can't, we stronger now more than ever
They tell us no we say yea, they tell us stop we say go
Rebel with a rebel yell, raise hell we gonna let em know
Stomp, push, shove, mush, Fuck Bush, until they bring our troops home (c'mon)

[Chorus]

Imagine it pouring, it's raining down on us
Mosh pits outside the oval office
Someone's tryina tell us something,
Maybe this is god just sayin' we're responsible
For this monster, this coward,
That we have empowered
This is Bin Laden, look at his head noddin'
How could we allow something like this without pumping our fists
Now this is our final hour
Let me be the voice in your strength and your choice
Let me simplify the rhyme just to amplify the noise
Try to amplify the times it, and multiply by six...
Teen million people, Are equal at this high pitch
Maybe we can reach alqueda through my speech
Let the president answer a higher anarchy
Strap him with an Ak-47, let him go, fight his own war
Let him impress daddy that way
No more blood for oil, we got our own battles to fight on our own soil
No more psychological warfare, to trick us to thinking that we ain't loyal
If we don't serve our own country, we're patronizing a hero
Look in his eyes its all lies
The stars and stripes, they've been swiped, washed out and wiped
And replaced with his own face, Mosh now or die
If I get sniped tonight you know why,
Cause I told you to fight.

[Chorus]

And as we proceed,
To Mosh through this desert storm,
In these closing statements, if they should argue
Let us beg to differ
As we set aside our differences
And assemble our own army
To disarm this Weapon of Mass Destruction
That we call our President, for the present
And Mosh for the future of our next generation
To speak and be heard
Mr. President, Mr. Senator
Do you guy's hear us...hear us...[laughing]

__________________
create evolution

cthulu23

Art,

I'm not sure why the medium of the video is relevant. Would the message be more legitimate if it was shot on film instead?

Political expression through music is as old as politics and music themselves. Our culture of celebrity may be an easy target but that does not automatically render any political statement made by a celebrity null and void, does it?

To me, it seems that you are giving far too much power to a music video. Guess what? Young voters are the least likely to show up at a polling place. I somehow doubt that politically inclined hip hop is going to significantly affect national politics anytime soon.

To some, an image of the people uniting together to reclaim the country through legitimate political means may be frightening. Fear of the "mob" has always permeated America's unspoken class conciousness. To those who do not fear the people, though, it is a vision of hope.

docbungle

That is exactly how I feel in regards to George w. Bush. Rabble-rouser, indeed.

__________________
Bad Luck City

ARTelevision

cthulu, the medium of "rock video" is relevant in so far as the form is characteristically vapid. Since the inception of the form, these under 5-minute pieces of popular entertainment have contributed quite little of value to our society. The fact that they are becoming political propaganda for the points of view of their promulgators doesn't do anything to rescue them from their simplistic, emotional, and juvenile fantasyland.

__________________
create evolution

cthulu23

Art,

I was referencing your "cartoon" remark. Surely you agree that animation is a valid art medium.

I never insinuated that this video was "important," just that it might be worth viewing to Bush opponents or those interested in certain pop subcultures. As I implied in my earlier post, your own statements on the impending political domination of "demagoguery" such as this video gives it much more weight or value (be it negative or positive) than I have.

neutone

Props to Eminem, smart boy, this goes beyond commercial cunning and furthering his career, people are waking to the destruction Bush leaves behind him and the youth have it to inherit.

__________________
Protect the rights of tribes

Stompy

ART... no offense, but you sound like my grandma.

Would you rather have an apathetic generation of citizens, or one that has an incredibly popular icon that informs them there there ARE things they need to start paying attention to and to become more aware of things around them?

Ignore the video and the fact that it's a cartoon and listen to the lyrics. The points he brings up are perfectly valid issues that MANY americans (not just kids) can relate to. There's nothing "rabble rousing" about it. No more rabble rousing than Bush using 9/11 in any speech he makes.

__________________
I love lamp.

ARTelevision

cthulu, I was responding to this:

"I'm not sure why the medium of the video is relevant. Would the message be more legitimate if it was shot on film instead?"

I have the same opinions of political propaganda conveyed in cartoons.

Yes, weight these things have. Popular culture in general is the mechanism by which our thinking process is replaced by commercial memes. I expect it will soon rule every aspect of our lives - if it does not do so already.

Weight yes, substance no.

__________________
create evolution

cthulu23

Art,

And I was responding to this:
"I find it most fascinating that we are discussing a cartoon here."

Which, to me, seemed to imply some sort of negative perception of animation. I was simply stating that "cartoon" is a valid medium. These statements had nothing to do with the specific animation that is being discussed in this thread.

I agree that popular culture has largely become synonomous with corporate consumerism. However, I don't think that commenting on one example of pop culture equates to "letting this sociopath do our thinking for us." Of course, you tend to focus on macro issues while ignoring the subtleties of the micro. Just my opinion, of course.

archer2371

First off, I'm gonna say that the only type of rap I enjoy is British rap, just cause there's something comical about hearing it, probably because I'm not used to it. Eminem, I respect his talent, he has got it, what ever it is. However, this is my problem with pop culture, because it's inducing young people to vote, because it's "hip" and they're going to go to the polls uninformed for more than likely most of their lives. Granted, we have a special group here of 18-25 year olds, because we all are pretty well informed, we read books, watch the news, check up on facts, etc. etc. Yet, for the most part, the younger half of this demographic (18-21) is basically all about alcohol, getting laid, and maybe making it to class on time, maybe. If someone is uninformed, they need to stay home, in fact it's almost an obligation for them to stay home. For those that do get out to vote, because of this video, they will say "I'm votin for that Kerry dude, cause Eminem didn't make fun of that guy." As a rule, people, and especially young people, are morons, and this doesn't elevate the political discourse in this country. Granted, the video is an excellent piece of art, which I respect, I'm not so partisan as to stop listening or watching something just because they support Democrats, that's just plain idiocy. But somehow, if this video does get young people to the polls, I guarantee most of them wouldn't have done any research about the candidates at all.

__________________
"This ain't no Ice Cream Social!"

"Hey Grif, Chupathingy...how bout that? I like it...got a ring to it."

"I have no earthly idea what it is I just saw, or what this place is, or where in the hell O'Malley is! My only choice is to blame Grif for coming up with such a flawed plan. Stupid, stupid Grif."

cthulu23

Archer2371,

As I mentioned earlier, young people are the demographic most likely to skip the election so I wouldn't expect this video to have any significant electoral impact at all.

Booboo

While I do agree that as a rule, people are morons, I think you slightly underestimate the younger people. At least as far as college bound people are concerned. I was very suprised to see how many people at my school (and the surrounding schools) are active in politics. I've seen and been involved with quite a few heated debates on the subjects brought up in this forum. And beleive it or not, those people are also about all those things you mentioned... alcohol, getting laid, and I'm not going to comment about making to to class . Kids these days are smarter than you might think, though most do have different priorities. I just thought it was important to mention that there ARE quite a few intelligent young people out there, besides those on this forum. I am 19 btw, and most of if not all of the people I mentioned are in the 18-21 range. Most of them will be making an informed choice when voting.

I guess this was more of a side-note than a point, as I do generally agree with your statement. Just thought the exceptions should be mentioned a little more.

__________________
"Your life is yours to live, go out and live it" - Richard Rahl

archer2371

I'll be 19 in December, and yeah, there are exceptions, I probably should have said many instead of most. cthulu23 you're more than likely right, nothing short of a nuclear bomb could get many young people to vote, it's just that uninformed voters is something that chaps my ass a little.

__________________
"This ain't no Ice Cream Social!"

"Hey Grif, Chupathingy...how bout that? I like it...got a ring to it."

"I have no earthly idea what it is I just saw, or what this place is, or where in the hell O'Malley is! My only choice is to blame Grif for coming up with such a flawed plan. Stupid, stupid Grif."

Church

I'll admit, I'm Canadian so I can't really vote for you Americans, but I have a lot of American friends. They will be going to the booths wearing black hoodies on Nov. 2nd, and I think its a great idea. Even though it will make no difference here, I will be wearing it with them in support of getting that awful president out of office.

As for the video, I love it. It encourages people to take action by voting instead of violent protest. Its artistic, but a great artist, and it really speaks to a large number of people.

__________________
Through counter-intelligence, it should be possible to pinpoint potential trouble makers, and neutralize them.

Ustwo

Laugh, some of you are amazingly transparent.

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

cthulu23

Thanks for the contribution. It was completely unexpected.

Ustwo

I didn't think anyone needed me to spell it out for them.

Since the video is 'anti-Bush' it will be hailed by those who don't like Bush as a great and wonderful thing. Even if they really hated enimem before they will suddenly rethink and see the true artist for his genius.

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

Booboo

You should really finish that quote in your sig ustwo.

__________________
"Your life is yours to live, go out and live it" - Richard Rahl

Stompy

...so what's the problem? I think you're just complaining for the sake of seeing yourself complain.

If the video was anti-Kerry you'd be praising him just as equally even if you didn't like him before. You might not kiss his ass, but you'd definitely repond in such a manner where you would announce a bit more respect for him.

So, who are you calling transparent?

Too bad it's not so black and white. Be thankful that someone is out there is giving the kids an alternate point of view to the world around them... especially considering no one else is. (and rightfully so since they're gonna be the next ones getting suckered into dying)

__________________
I love lamp.

cthulu23

I've never liked Eminem and this video doesn't do anything to change that fact. I also don't think that the actual dialogue in this thread bears out your assumptions. Did you ever think that people of a different political stripe might not be as shallow as you seem to think that they are?

kutulu

I'm sick of Republicans bitching about celebrities using their status to sway voters. Why shouldn't they? If you had that influence wouldn't you do the same? When they speak out against Bush tehy are uninformed rabble rousers however if they support Bush they see nothing wrong with it.

Double standard?

ARTelevision

I think I'll respond to the general comment above.
I have a long history of being consistent as regards artists and their political agendas - whatever they may be. I disapprove, in general of artists creating propaganda as art. I occasionally appropriate political expression in my work but, as my work is solipsistic I do not infuse it with the desire to influence anyone. Artists often make very poor judgements about things outside of an art context.

__________________
create evolution

Stompy

That makes absolutely no sense.

In that case, you might as well discredit the majority of the Beatles' work considering a lot of it was politically driven in some way... and I highly doubt it was FOR war. Jimi Hendrix's "All Along the Watchtower", is that bad? Or do you not listen to that music because it's "polluted by commercialism" or whatever?

Why do you think it's propaganda? It's not. If Kerry PAID him to make that song, then sure, but I don't think that's the case here. A musician makes music and lyrics from what they feel inside. If Eminem wants to express his anger about the Iraq war and our current president, so be it.

I think that's a very closed minded outlook on things.

__________________
I love lamp.

ARTelevision

I understand your objection.
This is an aesthetic issue for me.
It is also a cultural one.
You may know I see what is called "popular culture" as a cesspool that we all inhabit. I have nothing good to say about the Beatles as propagandists, either.

__________________
create evolution

Stompy

So, let me get this straight... you object to Eminem's video because it's "propaganda", yet you think it's WORSE than the constant deluge of propaganda (from the other side) we're forced to experience on a daily basis?

Would you rather have no one speak out? Isn't that the very thing you're afraid of? Shoudn't there be some opposition?

Would you rather people just discuss these issues amongst themselves and hope it passes by word-of-mouth as opposed to gaining a wider audience?

__________________
I love lamp.

ARTelevision

I object to it because it is propaganda masquerading as "art."

In fact, let's indeed get this straight - it isn't even art - it's entertainment.

__________________
create evolution

bling

And what is "art"? I see no reason art cannot be entertainment. And I see no reason art cannot be propaganda.

Booboo

And you certainly cant really argue as to what "art" is. Those discussions never really go anywhere. lol.. I guess like most of the discussions on this board.

__________________
"Your life is yours to live, go out and live it" - Richard Rahl

Stompy

What type of music/film would you consider "art" instead of merely "entertainment"?

Classical music... Mozart, Bach... created music from what they felt. Is that art, or entertainment?

Enter the lyric - quite a good amount of songs over the past 50 years have been politically driven. So none of it is art, it's all entertainment, and the "artists" created their works for the sole purpose of either 1. making money, or 2. having others enjoy what they've created?

If so, then where does it end? Where is the line drawn? How is that different from Michelangelo painting the Sistine Chapel ceiling? Did he paint it just to put on a good show and to have people entertained by looking at it?

(I don't mean to get off topic here, just trying to understand your perspective)

__________________
I love lamp.

ARTelevision

Understood.

I think it's clear that this "artist" is an entertainer.
I begin with traditional academic categories, which - while they lag a bit behind contemporary idioms - do offer some continuity with what is commonly described as the history of art.

Then, as a professional in this field - as a creator, teacher, and critic - I apply my own postmodern standards to things aesthetic.

While many, if not most, popular entertainers aspire to the status of artist, I prefer not to simply bend over backward in accepting their claim.

It seems to me we have a clear category known as "entertainment" operating in our culture. It also seems clear to me that this performer falls squarely into that camp. Of course, it's a matter of personal opinion.

Basically, Stompy, the most important issue you raised is one of partisanship. I really just want to make it clear that, in this instance, my refusal to acknowledge the value of the work in question is not based on partisan politics.

__________________
create evolution