denim

Link
The site above allows non-US residents to register an opinion of which candidate they prefer. It's kinda interesting.

SirSeymour

Two interesting things here:

First - Badnarik is not an option while second Dem and a Green are. I find this very very odd.

Second - Nader is the second leading vote getter. Wow.

__________________
SQL query
SELECT * FROM users WHERE clue > 0
Zero rows returned....

daswig

What can you say? A lot of foreigners HATE America. That's why they want to foist Kerry on us.

cthulu23

Let no thread go untouched by the wrath of the rampaging troll!

Anyway, I would bet that the Liberatarians don't show up on the radar because they are an American grown party, unlike the Greens. And our two party system hasn't been very helpful in allowing them any exposure.

The high Nader vote is probably due to his long reputation for public service over so many years. He has international name recognition for being selfless, a term not frequently applied to politicians.

Irishsean

I'm really starting to understand how other countries feel about america coming over and mucking up their politics. It's pretty annoying when you guys do it to us as well.

__________________
There are no absolute rules of conduct, either in peace or war. Everything depends on circumstances.
Leon Trotsky

Gopher

Ding ding! Congratulations.. you've won the ignorance award! First off, this is just to register the rest of the world's opinion on the matter.. the votes aren't actually going to count. Also, how can you not see that the reason the rest of the world has such an interest with the US elections is that it has such a huge effect on them?

Edit: I realise I'm being a little harsh here, but it's not all directed at you, Irishsean. You were just one of many who have voiced that opionion and it's starting to get to me!

Konichiwaneko

I don't think he is being ignorant. The world throws their socialist agenda at us thinking it will help us, but probably would only clog the wheel. Socialism is not bad on paper, but the application of it is one of the most resource heavy possible.

Will the US election affect the rest of the world, yes, as it should. Right now better us then Russia holding your belts and giving you an occasion drink and a loaf of bread. We need the world, and the world needs us. Most importantly we need the commerce of our nations to flow freely.


I love the world, but I don't care for socialist agendas.

__________________

Irishsean

Hmmm, after the last two weeks of people from foreign countries trying to tell me how to vote in a country they don't belong in, I'm getting sick and tired of their interference. If you want to influence american politics, either come here and become a citizen, or influence your own countries politics in a effort to moderate their relationships with america. My post was sympathetic to to the rest of the worlds feelings, ala I understand how they feel when we muck around with their politics.

__________________
There are no absolute rules of conduct, either in peace or war. Everything depends on circumstances.
Leon Trotsky

Gopher

How do you mean "clog the wheel"? I agree that having a socialist government is slightly more costly to the average person, but that's inherent. The people who advocate socialism accept this as part of it.

You need to stop comparing yourselves to other contries to justify your actions. It's been said quite a few times on the TFP and elsewhere, but it's something that needs to be understood - the lesser of two evils is still evil.


There's a major difference in the ways that America and the rest of the world try to influence each other. This 'mock vote' is just a way for us to voice our opinions - you have the choice whether to listen or not.

Konichiwaneko

"You need to stop comparing yourselves to other contries to justify your actions. It's been said quite a few times on the TFP and elsewhere, but it's something that needs to be understood - the lesser of two evils is still evil. "

but the normal dictates the good? And what is good, who defines it? The world? I honestly believe the us is good.

I mentioned in another post on the politic forum about why it "Clogs the wheel". Social agendas are so into promoting equality, that it limits those who wish to succeed and move foward by limiting them and forcing them to pay for those who are behind. By all means I don't suggest being greedy, but our social programs are designed for dependency rather then recovery. It's how votes are won.

So over time our system gets bogged down, slower and slower. Economy suffers, as the market becomes less free.

__________________

Irishsean

I'm getting pretty sick and tired of cleaning out my email account of 15+ emails telling me the world wants me to vote for kerry every day...

__________________
There are no absolute rules of conduct, either in peace or war. Everything depends on circumstances.
Leon Trotsky

Ustwo

Just find out who the socialists want elected, and vote for the other guy.

Works for me.

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

Konichiwaneko

smartest thing I've heard all day. I vote for you

__________________

roachboy

i assume that you have no idea what democratic socialism would entail, folks.
if you did, you might say something interesting.
but i understand that as american conservatives, such niceties are entirely optional if not frowned upon--better to confliate democratic socialism with stalinism and instead advocate a wholly suicidal economic outlook simply because it appealks to your petit bourgeois outlook.

this forum is rapidly become a complete waste of my time.

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

Ustwo

Did I mention Stalinism? I'm well aware of the difference my friend, though I give you two points for working 'petit bourgeois' into a responce. Marx would be proud.

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

Mephisto2

I'm getting preety tired of cleaning out my email account of emails trying to sell me Viagra and penis enlargement lotions.

What's your point? Does the Bush campaign not use email?

Spam is spam. Don't publish your email account.

And sites like the one listed above are "for fun" anyway. Or have you decided that the rest of the world are not allowed an opinion?


Mr Mephisto

Konichiwaneko

Interesting, I would swore I mention that "By the book" Socialism would work right. There's one major factor why socialism doesn't work, and it's called People.

Take your pretty words and sit pretty, I find it kinda funny that your last line reflects the same taint and selfishness that my post my infer on some people.

__________________

Irishsean

The emails i'm talking about aren't spam, they are apparently hand-typed emails from people in other countries who want me to vote for kerry. The email account I get them on is my public one, but I actually get less penis enlargement ads than I do political shit. And I've never gotten spam from either of the candidates other than this.

Everyone is allowed an opinion, its when you start imposing that opinion on others that you get into trouble, ie. America trying to police the world and impose its views on others and vice-versa.

If you actually read my posts, I was sympathizing about how other countries must feel when we fuck with them.

__________________
There are no absolute rules of conduct, either in peace or war. Everything depends on circumstances.
Leon Trotsky

Mephisto2

I did read your post(s), but I was responding, albeit cheekily, to your statement that you're "getting sick and tired of their interference".

It's not interference. It's a game.

So sorry for being a smart-ass, but the underlying message in my post remains the same. Relax and don't let it annoy you.


Mr Mephisto

SirSeymour

Maybe you would care to enlighten us, the unwashed masses, about the finer points of democratic socialism since you assume we know so little? It is easy to throw stones at us based on your own assumptions, much harder although infinitely more enjoyable for all here to debate the point in an educated fashion.

For the record, you were the one who brought up Stalinism first and the "wholly suicidal economic outlook" you are bashing has done a pretty good job of building the most successful nation on earth to date.

__________________
SQL query
SELECT * FROM users WHERE clue > 0
Zero rows returned....

Irishsean

Must resist urge to make cheap "cheeky bastard" crack...

Willpower fading quickly...

__________________
There are no absolute rules of conduct, either in peace or war. Everything depends on circumstances.
Leon Trotsky

Mephisto2

Heh...


Mr Mephisto

roachboy

comrades:

my apologies for the snarky post last night (see above)

one of those moments when ambient pressures in the real world leaked into this place and i did not see it

until this morning.

if i could rewind the conversation to edit out the snarkiness, i would maybe try to explain my position on democratic socialism

but for the moment, the apology floats by itself.

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

Mephisto2

Hell, don't worry roachboy.

Like Ustwo, I was kinda "tickled" to see the term petit bourgeois used in a post. I haven't heard or read that term since my adolescent socialist days!



Mr Mephisto

roachboy

well...that part was probably the only thing in the post i would keep.
the whole of neoliberal ideology is built around it--not the actual politics, but the ideology.
particularly in the states.

for example, the idea that transfers of wealth are an end in themselves that function to punish the beleagured "successful" folk and not to compensate for the atomizing effects of capitalism in the interest of building a higher level of social stability only makes sense from a petit bourgeois viewpoint.

that you would look to the fiction of nation to provide a sense of community while at the same time assuming that a mobilized, active population is somehow a threat--that too is classically petit bourgeois.

this "logic" extends to a denial of the public--that is to a denial of the possibility of collective mobilization, which is a constant feature of relations to the state---which by extension has to be understood (in part) as a mechanism for making otherwise private functions partially accountable to the public.

that capitalism as a whole can be seen as a collection of atomized individuals who owe nothing to the system that enables them to extract profit, that the system maintains itself through the agency of some god and not through the active and ongoing intervention of particular mechanisms, most of which are, like it or not, associated with the state--again, same class outlook....

neoliberalism is not that old as an ideology--it is something that emerged full-blown from the reagan-thatcher period. its implications are being worked out now--it functions as a response to the instabilities introduced into the nature and function of nation-states by globalizing capitalism, as a pretext for reducing the risks associated with uncertainty for the political class by enabling them to withdraw the state from a range of areas.

it is not an ideology that you can associate with the history of capitalism as a whole, with the development of american capitalism, with the relative position of american capitalism in the global context. it relies on a wholly fictional pseduo-history of capitalism to legitimate itself. but the history of actually existing capitalism is one of constant modifications of social and economic relations through mechanisms of law and institutions (state functions)....without it, capitalism would have collapsed a century ago.

you cannot have radical social instability and capitalism together.
you cannot have for any amount of time a radically stratified social system and a viable capitalismfor any amount of time.
neoliberal ideology is a short-term fix sold as if it were otherwise, a con the central issues of which function to conceal the operations being undertaken.
like i said above, it is about reducing the political risks of uncertainty during the transition into a different kind of globalizing capitalist system, the nature and implications of which are really not clear.

easiest way to sell that is to convince folk that a blinkered petit bourgeois framework enables them to describe the world.
why work to blind folk when you can get them to blind themselves?

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite