Riots in PA if Bush wins the State? (this thread is now entirely about gun control) - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

daswig · 10-25-2004, 12:43 PM

"Supporter: I'm just worried there's going to be riots afterwards.

Liz Edwards: Uh.....well...not if we win."

http://www.drudgereport.com/dncee.htm

They've sunk pretty low...."vote for our guy, or we'll burn your city to the ground and loot you!"

Ustwo · 10-25-2004, 12:52 PM

On the plus side in many states you can shoot looters.

I'm starting to think Bush is going to loose do to voter fraud, the election will be that close, but at least we won't be causing large scale damage. Bush has already had a good number of campign HQ's 'attacked', it will only get worse.

Peace and tolerance my ass.

OpieCunningham · 10-25-2004, 12:57 PM

It's amazing that "Uh.....well....not if we win" can be turned into "vote for our guy, or we'll burn your city to the ground and loot you".

But "There's overwhelming evidence there was a connection between Al Qaeda and the Iraqi government, I am very confident that there was an established relationship there." (Cheney) isn't a blatant attempt to create disinformation to fan the flames of fear, considering the only connection between Iraq and Al Qaeda was nothing more than a rebuked attempt at establishing a relationship, as initiated by Al Qaeda.

Averett · 10-25-2004, 12:57 PM

This is insane. Look at what she said, and how she said it! She's thinking the whole riot thing is pretty stupid too. Nowhere does she say "vote for us or there will be riots!"

Get real folks.

daswig · 10-25-2004, 12:59 PM

She could have said "don't worry, there will not be riots". She didn't, she said "not if we win".

OpieCunningham · 10-25-2004, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daswig

She could have said "don't worry, there will not be riots". She didn't, she said "not if we win".

She could have said a lot of things. But she didn't. And she CERTAINLY didn't say anything even CLOSE to what you stated.

As is, what she has done is provide a promise (which may very well be beyond her capability to uphold) that, if Kerry/Edwards does indeed win, there will be no riots.

Maybe you're disappointed because Bush/Cheney aren't promising no riots if they win?

Or maybe you just like to take comments of your opposition entirely and completely out of context in order to meet your agenda.

daswig · 10-25-2004, 01:08 PM

she implied that if Kerry loses, there WILL be riots.

Super_Mole · 10-25-2004, 01:16 PM

The Bush\Cheney supporters probably want a riot so they can try out their brand new assault weapons.

"Hey Joe! Come look at this AK-47 I just bought at the local flea-market!"

"Wow that's awesome Ned! What do you kill with it?"

"Squirrles."

"Squirrles... alright! I'll bet those furry little bastards didn't even know what hit 'em!"

"Nope! And if Bush doesn't win Pennsylvania next week, I'm gonna run out in to street and shoot random democrats!"

"Whew, that brings a tear to my eye. By exorcising your second amendment rights, you are being a true patriot!"

"Yeah, well... I try my best. Oh yeah did you see the twelve story tall flag pole I put in front of my house and the ten Bush\Cheney bumper stickers that I covered my car in?"

Zeld2.0 · 10-25-2004, 01:20 PM

Geez talk about spin... nothing to see here.

filtherton · 10-25-2004, 01:23 PM

Didn't cheney say that we'd be attacked by terrorists if kerry won?

OpieCunningham · 10-25-2004, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daswig

she implied that if Kerry loses, there WILL be riots.

Um. No.

She implied that she guaranteed no riots if Kerry won. Clearly she cannot guarantee anything if Kerry loses as she and Kerry will have no power. She did not even say that there was a lower likelyhood of riots if Kerry won, which would have been an actual comparison to either a Kerry or Bush presidency.

And that marks the end of my part in this ridiculous discussion.

Unright · 10-25-2004, 01:25 PM

Drudge Report isn't really a legit news source.

daswig · 10-25-2004, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super_Mole

The Bush\Cheney supporters probably want a riot so they can try out their brand new assault weapons.

Remember that if you try to loot a place with Bush/Cheney stickers....

"Perhaps it's just the way the light falls
But everything looks like a target to me
And I don't know where the gun is
But I'm certain that it's pointed at me "--Clutch

daswig · 10-25-2004, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unright

Drudge Report isn't really a legit news source.

They have the audio from c-span up...how much more do you need for legitimacy???

daswig · 10-25-2004, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OpieCunningham

She implied that she guaranteed no riots if Kerry won.

Right. What she DIDN'T say was "I hope Democrats wouldn't riot regardless of the outcome", what she DID say is that Democrats wouldn't riot if they won.

Let's look at the "she guaranteed no riots if Kerry won" statement. That would suggest that she wouldn't expect the Republican constituencies to riot, win or lose, but that she would only say the same about the Democratic constituencies if they won.

roachboy · 10-25-2004, 01:32 PM

this is idiotic.
and in addition to the idiocy of the druge report in general, and this article in particular, we get ustwo fantasizing about a bloodbath in the streets.
way to go folks.

Willravel · 10-25-2004, 01:34 PM

Opie and daswig, it's good to have you guys back.

Roits are overrated. That woman doesn't scare me. Luckely the police in my city have great tactics to subside roits.

daswig · 10-25-2004, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willravel

Opie and daswig, it's good to have you guys back.

Roits are overrated.

Thanks.

I've been in several riots. I'm talking city-wide looting situations. They were "hold what you got" scenarios. Strangely enough, the places where I was never got looted, and I didn't even have to open fire. Go figure.

daswig · 10-25-2004, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roachboy

this is idiotic.
and in addition to the idiocy of the druge report in general, and this article in particular, we get ustwo fantasizing about a bloodbath in the streets.
way to go folks.

Drudge cites C-span as recording the exchange and provides an audio link to her saying it. I guess C-span just made it up, eh?

Lebell · 10-25-2004, 01:44 PM

This didn't start well and is already heading downwards.

The fact that she said what she said is indesputable, but the comments here are beyond that and getting personal...again.

Maybe we should just close the board and ban political posts until after the election.

Superbelt · 10-25-2004, 01:47 PM

...................

quicksteal · 10-25-2004, 01:51 PM

I think what Ms. Edwards really meant was that nobody would be all that excited if Kerry won, so there would be no one out in the streets.

I don't see how someone could be so foolish to say that they could stop a riot...Just wait and see if the Red Sox win the World Series, who could control Boston?

roachboy · 10-25-2004, 01:53 PM

seriously, i would not waste my time trying to figure out if there will be demonstrations or not in the streets next week should bush manage somehow to win. just as you had no way of anticipating the debacle in florida last time out, we will all have to wait and see how things shake out. what kind of circus it is this time around.

too often police do not make any rel distinction betwene protest and riot. too often police actions tip things from one into another. i would not take any particular solace in the ability of militarized urban police force to react in a coherent manner to protests, should they occur.

but if i were you, i would worry much more about the political consequences of electoral shenanigans, should they transpire. and i would worry in particular about those consequences if it turns out that bush "wins" another deeply flawed election. those consequences will not be enacted and contained in any given series of street actions. those consequences will drive a far more radical wedge between positions than anything you have seen up to now. no amount of police actions will change that.

which puts me in the curious position of hoping for an election with minimal problems. one that bush looses, of course.

daswig · 10-25-2004, 01:54 PM

BTW, video of the event and her comments are available at http://www.c-span.org

Click on "RWH: Elizabeth Edwards Town Hall Meeting (10/24/2004)". She makes the comment at 1:24:24-1:24:30 in the tape.

So the whole "Drudge is unreliable" thing doesn't hold water...

daswig · 10-25-2004, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roachboy

seriously, i would not waste my time trying to figure out if there will be demonstrations or not in the streets next week should bush manage somehow to win.

I'm not wasting time worrying about if there will be riots. I've already got enough magazines and belts loaded to deal with whatever happens around my neighborhood.

roachboy · 10-25-2004, 02:00 PM

i assume that you are joking, daswig.

sprocket · 10-25-2004, 02:03 PM

It was just a rediculous comment all together. She has no power over a mass of people on the brink of rioting. An empty promise.

Perhaps its time to recognize "fearmongering" is a tactic used by politicians regardless of party affiliation.

Superbelt · 10-25-2004, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daswig

BTW, video of the event and her comments are available at http://www.c-span.org

Click on "RWH: Elizabeth Edwards Town Hall Meeting (10/24/2004)". She makes the comment at 1:24:24-1:24:30 in the tape.

So the whole "Drudge is unreliable" thing doesn't hold water...

We aren't refuting the exact quotes.

We are calling into question the very liberal interpretation Drudge takes with the quotes.

It borders on insanity.

daswig · 10-25-2004, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roachboy

which puts me in the curious position of hoping for an election with minimal problems. one that bush looses, of course.

Unfortunately, that's a forlorn hope. Both the Democrats and Republicans are planning on fighting this out in the courts if it's remotely close. And given the level of voter fraud we've seen so far (for example, the NAACP paying people for bogus voter registrations with crack cocaine, and the Republicans leaving Kerry off some absentee ballots) I can't envision a scenario where this election does NOT end up in the courts.

I'm expecting voter fraud to be widespread on both sides. And I think the election is going to either be a Bush blowout, or else resolved by which side cheats better.

Willravel · 10-25-2004, 02:08 PM

Yea, this one will go down in history either way.

daswig · 10-25-2004, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roachboy

i assume that you are joking, daswig.

What, about the loaded belts and magazines? Nope, dead serious. I always keep a goodly supply of "ready ammo" Currently, I think I've got a hair over 20K rounds (mostly) belted or in magazines for the various guns floating around the house. I live in a very bad neighborhood, and I'd much rather cut a crowd down than let them harm my wife and child. What's nice is that the law backs me up in this.

I don't anticipate any real problems here. My neighbors all think I'm completely insane(why else would a lawyer live where I do?), and they know that I'm heavily armed (when I moved into the neighborhood and the safe guy delivered the gunsafes, they noticed it since he blocked the street. Plus, I buy my ammo by the palletload, and it takes me a while to move it from the curb where the shippers drop it off into the armory.), so they go out of their way to respect the boundaries I set, so that I don't shoot them when they break the law.

roachboy · 10-25-2004, 02:14 PM

i have no idea where you get the idea that the election will be a "bush blowout"--i assume that is based on no information whatsoever.
it is not reflected in any poll, anywhere, either national or international.

i do however think that much is at stake in this election. and i reiterate the argument that a second shaky bush "win" would be a disaster for all of us. the kind of thing your private arsenal would do nothing to change.

filtherton · 10-25-2004, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daswig

What, about the loaded belts and magazines? Nope, dead serious. I always keep a goodly supply of "ready ammo" Currently, I think I've got a hair over 20K rounds (mostly) belted or in magazines for the various guns floating around the house. I live in a very bad neighborhood, and I'd much rather cut a crowd down than let them harm my wife and child. What's nice is that the law backs me up in this.

I don't anticipate any real problems here. My neighbors all think I'm completely insane(why else would a lawyer live where I do?), and they know that I'm heavily armed (when I moved into the neighborhood and the safe guy delivered the gunsafes, they noticed it since he blocked the street. Plus, I buy my ammo by the palletload, and it takes me a while to move it from the curb where the shippers drop it off into the armory.), so they go out of their way to respect the boundaries I set, so that I don't shoot them when they break the law.

On a completely irrelevant sidenote, if zombies do ever take over a la "dawn of the dead", you will have to give me your address.

daswig · 10-25-2004, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by filtherton

On a completely irrelevant sidenote, if zombies do ever take over a la "dawn of the dead", you will have to give me your address.

Sorry, we're booked solid for the end of the world.

filtherton · 10-25-2004, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daswig

Sorry, we're booked solid for the end of the world.

S'allright, i doubt i would make it that far in my civic.

daswig · 10-25-2004, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roachboy

i have no idea where you get the idea that the election will be a "bush blowout"--i assume that is based on no information whatsoever.

I base it on my recollection of the events surrounding the 1988 presidential campaign.

Superbelt · 10-25-2004, 02:27 PM

Actually, a better parallel would be 1992.

daswig · 10-25-2004, 02:29 PM

BTW, I don't keep so much "ready ammo" around in case there's going to be trouble. Realistically, I doubt that if there was trouble, I'd need more than 100 rounds ready to go. But I do like going to the range, and sometimes am able to go on very short notice. Since I burn through 10-15K rounds in an average couple of hours at the range, I keep it ready to go so that I don't have to spend valuable range time loading belts, which is a time-consuming process.

roachboy · 10-25-2004, 02:29 PM

a 6 second soundbite isolated by drudge and presented as if it was free-standing, twisted around by conservatives into being either a call for something like riots---which is absurd----or a prognostication--which is also absurd---the effect of which is to let gun fetishists here dream about how nice it would be to mow down people who disagree with them politically on the streets...that is what we have here?

why do i waste my time here again?

Superbelt · 10-25-2004, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daswig

BTW, I don't keep so much "ready ammo" around in case there's going to be trouble. Realistically, I doubt that if there was trouble, I'd need more than 100 rounds ready to go. But I do like going to the range, and sometimes am able to go on very short notice. Since I burn through 10-15K rounds in an average couple of hours at the range, I keep it ready to go so that I don't have to spend valuable range time loading belts, which is a time-consuming process.

10 to 15 THOUSAND rounds in a couple hours? What do you do, point and spray? Do you park a vw bug on the range and just go to town on it?

Second question: How much money do you estimate you toss out in a day like that?

10-25-2004, 12:43 PM	#1 (permalink)
daswig Banned Location: BFE	Riots in PA if Bush wins the State? (this thread is now entirely about gun control) "Supporter: I'm just worried there's going to be riots afterwards. Liz Edwards: Uh.....well...not if we win." http://www.drudgereport.com/dncee.htm They've sunk pretty low...."vote for our guy, or we'll burn your city to the ground and loot you!"

10-25-2004, 12:52 PM	#2 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	On the plus side in many states you can shoot looters. I'm starting to think Bush is going to loose do to voter fraud, the election will be that close, but at least we won't be causing large scale damage. Bush has already had a good number of campign HQ's 'attacked', it will only get worse. Peace and tolerance my ass. __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

10-25-2004, 12:57 PM	#3 (permalink)
OpieCunningham Loser	It's amazing that "Uh.....well....not if we win" can be turned into "vote for our guy, or we'll burn your city to the ground and loot you". But "There's overwhelming evidence there was a connection between Al Qaeda and the Iraqi government, I am very confident that there was an established relationship there." (Cheney) isn't a blatant attempt to create disinformation to fan the flames of fear, considering the only connection between Iraq and Al Qaeda was nothing more than a rebuked attempt at establishing a relationship, as initiated by Al Qaeda. Last edited by OpieCunningham; 10-25-2004 at 12:59 PM..

10-25-2004, 12:57 PM	#4 (permalink)
Averett Is In Love Location: I'm workin' on it	This is insane. Look at what she said, and how she said it! She's thinking the whole riot thing is pretty stupid too. Nowhere does she say "vote for us or there will be riots!" Get real folks. __________________ Absence is to love what wind is to fire. It extinguishes the small, it enkindles the great.

10-25-2004, 01:16 PM	#8 (permalink)
Super_Mole Upright Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Go Steelers!)	The Bush\Cheney supporters probably want a riot so they can try out their brand new assault weapons. "Hey Joe! Come look at this AK-47 I just bought at the local flea-market!" "Wow that's awesome Ned! What do you kill with it?" "Squirrles." "Squirrles... alright! I'll bet those furry little bastards didn't even know what hit 'em!" "Nope! And if Bush doesn't win Pennsylvania next week, I'm gonna run out in to street and shoot random democrats!" "Whew, that brings a tear to my eye. By exorcising your second amendment rights, you are being a true patriot!" "Yeah, well... I try my best. Oh yeah did you see the twelve story tall flag pole I put in front of my house and the ten Bush\Cheney bumper stickers that I covered my car in?" __________________ How many kids with ADD does it take to screw in a lightbulb... lets go ride bikes.

10-25-2004, 12:59 PM	#5 (permalink)
daswig Banned Location: BFE	She could have said "don't worry, there will not be riots". She didn't, she said "not if we win".

10-25-2004, 01:08 PM	#7 (permalink)
daswig Banned Location: BFE	she implied that if Kerry loses, there WILL be riots.

10-25-2004, 01:20 PM	#9 (permalink)
Zeld2.0 Cherry-pickin' devil's advocate Location: Los Angeles	Geez talk about spin... nothing to see here.

10-25-2004, 01:23 PM	#10 (permalink)
filtherton Junkie Location: In the land of ice and snow.	Didn't cheney say that we'd be attacked by terrorists if kerry won?

10-25-2004, 01:25 PM	#12 (permalink)
Unright Crazy Location: Florida	Drudge Report isn't really a legit news source.

10-25-2004, 01:32 PM	#16 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	this is idiotic. and in addition to the idiocy of the druge report in general, and this article in particular, we get ustwo fantasizing about a bloodbath in the streets. way to go folks. __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite

10-25-2004, 01:34 PM	#17 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	Opie and daswig, it's good to have you guys back. Roits are overrated. That woman doesn't scare me. Luckely the police in my city have great tactics to subside roits.

10-25-2004, 01:44 PM	#20 (permalink)
Lebell Cracking the Whip Location: Sexymama's arms...	This didn't start well and is already heading downwards. The fact that she said what she said is indesputable, but the comments here are beyond that and getting personal...again. Maybe we should just close the board and ban political posts until after the election. __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate!

10-25-2004, 01:47 PM	#21 (permalink)
Superbelt This vexes me. I am terribly vexed. Location: Grantville, Pa	...................

10-25-2004, 01:51 PM	#22 (permalink)
quicksteal Crazy Location: Auburn, AL	I think what Ms. Edwards really meant was that nobody would be all that excited if Kerry won, so there would be no one out in the streets. I don't see how someone could be so foolish to say that they could stop a riot...Just wait and see if the Red Sox win the World Series, who could control Boston?

10-25-2004, 01:53 PM	#23 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	seriously, i would not waste my time trying to figure out if there will be demonstrations or not in the streets next week should bush manage somehow to win. just as you had no way of anticipating the debacle in florida last time out, we will all have to wait and see how things shake out. what kind of circus it is this time around. too often police do not make any rel distinction betwene protest and riot. too often police actions tip things from one into another. i would not take any particular solace in the ability of militarized urban police force to react in a coherent manner to protests, should they occur. but if i were you, i would worry much more about the political consequences of electoral shenanigans, should they transpire. and i would worry in particular about those consequences if it turns out that bush "wins" another deeply flawed election. those consequences will not be enacted and contained in any given series of street actions. those consequences will drive a far more radical wedge between positions than anything you have seen up to now. no amount of police actions will change that. which puts me in the curious position of hoping for an election with minimal problems. one that bush looses, of course. __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite

10-25-2004, 01:54 PM	#24 (permalink)
daswig Banned Location: BFE	BTW, video of the event and her comments are available at http://www.c-span.org Click on "RWH: Elizabeth Edwards Town Hall Meeting (10/24/2004)". She makes the comment at 1:24:24-1:24:30 in the tape. So the whole "Drudge is unreliable" thing doesn't hold water...

10-25-2004, 02:00 PM	#26 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	i assume that you are joking, daswig. __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite

10-25-2004, 02:03 PM	#27 (permalink)
sprocket Psycho Location: In transit	It was just a rediculous comment all together. She has no power over a mass of people on the brink of rioting. An empty promise. Perhaps its time to recognize "fearmongering" is a tactic used by politicians regardless of party affiliation. __________________ Remember, wherever you go... there you are. Last edited by sprocket; 10-25-2004 at 02:06 PM..

10-25-2004, 02:08 PM	#30 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	Yea, this one will go down in history either way.

10-25-2004, 02:14 PM	#32 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	i have no idea where you get the idea that the election will be a "bush blowout"--i assume that is based on no information whatsoever. it is not reflected in any poll, anywhere, either national or international. i do however think that much is at stake in this election. and i reiterate the argument that a second shaky bush "win" would be a disaster for all of us. the kind of thing your private arsenal would do nothing to change. __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite

10-25-2004, 02:27 PM	#37 (permalink)
Superbelt This vexes me. I am terribly vexed. Location: Grantville, Pa	Actually, a better parallel would be 1992.

10-25-2004, 02:29 PM	#38 (permalink)
daswig Banned Location: BFE	BTW, I don't keep so much "ready ammo" around in case there's going to be trouble. Realistically, I doubt that if there was trouble, I'd need more than 100 rounds ready to go. But I do like going to the range, and sometimes am able to go on very short notice. Since I burn through 10-15K rounds in an average couple of hours at the range, I keep it ready to go so that I don't have to spend valuable range time loading belts, which is a time-consuming process.

10-25-2004, 02:29 PM	#39 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	a 6 second soundbite isolated by drudge and presented as if it was free-standing, twisted around by conservatives into being either a call for something like riots---which is absurd----or a prognostication--which is also absurd---the effect of which is to let gun fetishists here dream about how nice it would be to mow down people who disagree with them politically on the streets...that is what we have here? why do i waste my time here again? __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite