Riots in PA if Bush wins the State? (this thread is now entirely about gun control)

[daswig]

Originally Posted by cthulu23

So you're saying that the "Republican Revolution," which had been a work in progress for politicians and think-tanks for years, was solely because of the Brady Bill and the AWB? Even I think that Newt deserves a little more credit than that.

Hey, don't take my word for it, read what Bill Clinton said in 1995:

"The last Congress also passed the Brady Bill and in the Crime Bill the ban on 19 assault weapons. I don't think it's a secret to anybody in this room that several members of the last Congress who voted for that aren't here tonight because they voted for it."

[cthulu23]

Originally Posted by daswig

Hey, don't take my word for it, read what Bill Clinton said in 1995:

That doesn't prove that the Brady bill and the AWB were the ONLY reason for the Republican victories in 1994. I seem to remember relentess noise emitted over a balanced budget, lessening regulation, defunding "big government," rolling back environmental protections, etc. Let's not oversimplify history, please.

[daswig]

Originally Posted by cthulu23

Let's not oversimplify history, please.

So what's your excuse as to why Gore lost Tenn. (his home state) and West Virginia in 2000?

[cthulu23]

Originally Posted by daswig

So what's your excuse as to why Gore lost Tenn. (his home state) and West Virginia in 2000?

I didn't say that gun control had no affect but I don't think that you can lay the credit at the feet of a SINGLE issue for either the "Republican Revolution" or whatever states Gore lost.

[daswig]

Originally Posted by cthulu23

I didn't say that gun control had no affect but I don't think that you can lay the credit at the feet of a SINGLE issue for either the "Republican Revolution" or whatever states Gore lost.

You want to piss off a couple of a million voters in one fell swoop? Gun control is the way to do it. Why do you think Kerry is backpeddling on gun control so furiously with his "dead goose" and "dead pheasant" photo-ops?

Look at the numbers. There are around 100 million gun owners in the US. By law, they're all eligible to vote, since disqualifications for gun ownership are also largely disqualifications for voting. If only 10% of them are against gun control, that's 10 million votes against an anti-gun candidate nation-wide. That kind of handicap is very hard to overcome.

[OpieCunningham]

Daswig -

If you're implying that politicians that support gun control are suseptible to public opinion, then the inverse would, by necessity, be true.

So are you worried about the hopes for politicians that do not support gun control like the AWB, based on this reality:

"As you may know, the federal ban on assault weapons has expired, and certain types of guns that were banned in 1994 can now be legally sold again. Overall, are you satisfied that this law has expired, dissatisfied that it has expired, or does it not make a difference to you either way?"

Satisfied - 12%
Dissatisfied - 61%
No difference - 25%
Not sure - 2%

And how does your theory on the downfall of Democrats mesh with this reality:

"In general, would you say you favor stricter gun control, or less strict gun control?"

4/98
Stricter - 69%
Less Strict - 23%
Neither - 7%
Unsure - 1%

6/99
Stricter - 63%
Less Strict - 25%
Neither - 10%
Unsure - 2%

5/00
Stricter - 63%
Less Strict - 28%
Neither - 6%
Unsure - 2%

9/04
Stricter - 60%
Less Strict - 32%
Neither - 4%
Unsure - 3%

Clear majorities have consistently prefered stricter gun control.

All from:
http://www.pollingreport.com/guns.htm

[daswig]

Originally Posted by OpieCunningham

And how does your theory on the downfall of Democrats mesh with this reality:
Clear majorities have consistently prefered stricter gun control.

Given the reality of where gun control is and is not popular (It's popular in the urban northeast and California, and the political kiss of death in much of the rest of the country) it's entirely possible that those numbers are correct. Of course, polls are only as accurate as the pollsters and their samples.

BTW, didja notice how a few hundred people that showed up in DC (as reported by NPR) became the "Million Mom March" in 2004 to "Stop the Assault!"? Looks like a LOT of the "Million Moms" done run away...or became "Security Moms" on 9/11.

Clinton said that gun control cost the Democrats seats in Congress. Donna Brazille (sp? I'm talking about the african-american female Gore advisor/pundit) said gun control cost Gore the 2000 election by keeping him from winning his home state, which would have made Florida irrelevant. Why should I take your word over their word?

If dems want to keep pushing gun control on a national basis, that's fine with me.

[OpieCunningham]

Originally Posted by daswig

Given the reality of where gun control is and is not popular (It's popular in the urban northeast and California, and the political kiss of death in much of the rest of the country)

Or not:

Voters in Midwestern states supported renewing the assault weapons ban slightly more than those in Southwestern states. Midwestern states (Ohio, Wisconsin, Michigan and Missouri) averaged 72 percent support for renewal. Southwestern states (Arizona and New Mexico) averaged 67 percent. In Florida, 81 percent of likely voters support renewing the ban.

• Rural states, traditionally seen as very conservative on gun issues, strongly favored renewing the ban. Sixty-eight percent of voters in South Dakota and West Virginia support renewal.

• Majorities of gun owners in all but two states favored renewing the ban. Even in those two states, Missouri and Ohio, only slightly less than 50 percent of gun owners and NRA supporters favored renewing the ban.

• In nine of 10 states surveyed, union households supported renewing the ban by at least 60 percent. In Pennsylvania, 80 percent of union households supported renewing the ban and 73 percent supported strengthening it.

• At least 60 percent of current and former military members and military families supported renewing the ban in all states surveyed. In Wisconsin, more than three-fourths (77 percent) of current and former military members and military families support renewing the ban.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2004Jul18.html

And would ya look at that - 68% in West Virginia supported the renewal.

And look at that Military support for the renewal.

[daswig]

Originally Posted by OpieCunningham

Or not:
And would ya look at that - 68% in West Virginia supported the renewal.

And look at that Military support for the renewal.

ROTFLMAO!!! YOU QUOTED METZENBAUM!!!!!!

He's quoting a study by the "Educational Fund to Stop Gun Violence".


I'm sure if you quoted Al Wallace in 1964, he'd have said that 85% of all Americans opposed the 1964 Civil Rights Act, too...


I'm sorry, but you're argument isn't going to get you anywhere if you quote sources as obviously biased as that.

I can't stop giggling!!! Thanks for making my evening!!!! I'm waiting for you to trot out Bellesiles and Kellermann next!!!

[OpieCunningham]

Maybe you have some other numbers which could demonstrate this to be incorrect instead of simply assigning them as incorrect because you don't like the organization that provided them.

Or maybe that would require concerted effort as opposed to the ease of clicking a smiley face button 100 times.

And if you think you've been effective, I'll try to remember this tactic of yours anytime someone quotes Limbaugh/Drudge/Coulter - blast 'em with the impressive logic of a purple laughing cartoon graphic.

[spectre]

Thread locked. If you can't play nice, you don't get to play at all.