How can people justify not voting? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Irishsean · 10-22-2004, 06:35 PM

I've heard a lot of comments lately about people not liking Kerry or Bush, so they are not gonna vote for anyone. If you don't like the political situation as it is, aren't you somehow bound to try and fix it? There are plenty of candidates for president if you add in all the third parties, I'm sure there is someone anyone could vote for.
I'm of the opinion, if you don't vote, you can't bitch about how it turns out. I got really sick of the last election when people whined about bush winning or the controversy and come to find out they hadn't even voted.
If you really care about how the election turns out, make sure you vote on the 2nd.

cthulu23 · 10-22-2004, 06:38 PM

If voting changed anything it would be illegal.

If not voting changed anything it would be illegal.

Even if one is fed up with the two party system there are plenty of good reasons to vote, like local ballot initiatives, tax renewals, state constitutional amendments (we get a lot of these in Louisiana), etc.

Ustwo · 10-22-2004, 06:44 PM

I have several employees.

One of them, 24, has never followed anything political, has NO idea what the parties are (just their names) and does not vote.

Should she be forced to?

Irishsean · 10-22-2004, 06:59 PM

Why not? IMO she should be taking some personal responsibility in how our nation is run and learn about what parties and candidates stand for.

SirSeymour · 10-22-2004, 07:04 PM

Which is why I no longer support universal sufferage for all citizens who are not felons and are over the age of 21. Anything free is not valued. The vote is now free as long as you register. Maybe if there was some addition work required to earn it, more folks would do it.

ravenradiodj · 10-22-2004, 07:11 PM

This country was bought and paid for a long time ago, and the same old rich white money families are going to be running things no matter which member of the Skull and Bones wins. They may toss the ball back and forth a few times, but ultimately, nothing happens. Wealth and privelige have always ruled Western civilization, whether it was from behind a king's throne or a president's desk. If the last election didn't prove to you that your vote has absolutely no meaning....if the backdoor program into the Diebold voting machines that can change the results into anything you want them to be doesn't do it.....if the very existence of the electoral college doesn't....if the universal exclusion of all "other party" candidates in debates, media coverage and funding doesn't.....if the fact that both candidates plan on continuing our illegal presence in Iraq and Afghanistan doesn't....then there's nothing anyone can say or do to convince you that the entire thing is an aburd farce.

Ustwo · 10-22-2004, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irishsean

Why not? IMO she should be taking some personal responsibility in how our nation is run and learn about what parties and candidates stand for.

Because she doesn't have a clue.

Would you force her to have a clue too?

Maybe punishments for not having a clue?

If she is clueless why would you WANT her picking who would run the country?

tspikes51 · 10-22-2004, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

Because she doesn't have a clue.

Would you force her to have a clue too?

Maybe punishments for not having a clue?

If she is clueless why would you WANT her picking who would run the country?

It is our responsibility to vote. Not our right. She should be shot or deported.

Willravel · 10-22-2004, 09:28 PM

Uninformed voters are more dangerous than uninformed non-voters. Anyone who wants to have people shot and/or deported should consider meditation. Anger can cause stress levels to rise, and meditation can reduce stress naturally. Breath in...breath out....

Stompy · 10-22-2004, 09:28 PM

If they have no interest in politics whatsoever then no, not voting doesn't matter, really. You can't force someone to do something they have no interest in.

If, however, the person is even remotely concerned about politics... (ie "anti bush/kerry") and they don't vote, that's irresponsibility and laziness.

Generally it's the whole "blah blah, I hate so and so, but I won't get off my ass and do anything about it." It's annoying.

IMO, if you didn't vote, you can't really complain about who's in office. I guess this does change from state to state... if you lived in CA (guaranteed democrats) and you hate Bush and don't vote, it's not as bad as you living in, say, Utah or Texas as someone who hates bush and doesn't vote.

gondath · 10-22-2004, 09:33 PM

Most people won't vote because they are lazy, pure and simple.

ARTelevision · 10-22-2004, 09:41 PM

Free Will.
I would never take away someone's right to not vote.

Ustwo · 10-22-2004, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stompy

If, however, the person is even remotely concerned about politics... (ie "anti bush/kerry") and they don't vote, that's irresponsibility and laziness.

Interesting choice of what being concerned about politics, 'anti bush/kerry'. Some of us like our candidate and are pro

Quote:

IMO, if you didn't vote, you can't really complain about who's in office.

I see so in 1992 when the lines were 3 hours long and I was in college, I couldn't complain about Clinton's action, or lack their of, when dead Americans were being dragged through the streets?

Quote:

I guess this does change from state to state... if you lived in CA (guaranteed democrats) and you hate Bush and don't vote, it's not as bad as you living in, say, Utah or Texas as someone who hates bush and doesn't vote.

Ah more hating as a motivation to vote

If every Democrat in Utah voted for Kerry guess who would win Utah.

SecretMethod70 · 10-22-2004, 10:22 PM

I'm proud of the choice people have to not vote. Most non-voters are not informed people who are too lazy but, rather, politically apathetic. Therefore, the fact they don't vote is a good thing. I'd rather see lower turnout with more informed voters.

Stompy · 10-22-2004, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

Interesting choice of what being concerned about politics, 'anti bush/kerry'. Some of us like our candidate and are pro

I see so in 1992 when the lines were 3 hours long and I was in college, I couldn't complain about Clinton's action, or lack their of, when dead Americans were being dragged through the streets?

Ah more hating as a motivation to vote

If every Democrat in Utah voted for Kerry guess who would win Utah.

You clearly spent too much time puting thought and analysis into something that didn't even remotely mean what you thought it did.

It was just an example

Most situations I personally experience are with people who are all "so and so is a dick. They suck."

me: "Are you gonna vote?"

them: "No."

me: "Then STFU."

Tis all.

[edit]
It's almost NEVER "Hey, I really love so and so.. too bad the other guy is running against him."

"So you gonna vote?"

"No."

Rekna · 10-22-2004, 10:54 PM

Voting when you have no prefrence or voting when you don't know anything about the canidates is irresponible

Kalibah · 10-22-2004, 11:25 PM

Yeah I agree.

I hate it when people that dont vote complain.

But when I talk to *SOME* people who don't vote, Im sort of glad they dont.... They are the kind of people that vote on the political ads....

flstf · 10-22-2004, 11:43 PM

The way the system is skewed to insure that the people in power (Democrats and Republicans) will surely maintain that power makes not voting an excellent choice.

Don't let them think we endorse the farce and buy into their silly soundbites. Why give any credibility to such a corrupt system. Oh sure, third parties are allowed in, they just aren't invited to the debates or given any press coverage and are guaranteed to not make a difference.

My wife who escaped from the iron curtain years ago informs me that they had almost 100% voter turnout during their elections but there was really no choice, only the communist. Just like here, no real choice but the Democrat/Republican.

The communists forced a high turnout so they could show how much the people supported the system. The people would have chosen to stay away from the polls in protest but then they would lose their jobs, housing, etc..

I'd like to see folks not endorse either one of these party puppets and have the president decided by about 10% of the vote. Sure, go to the polls and vote for dog catcher and other locals but only if they run as independants, LOL.

docbungle · 10-23-2004, 12:00 AM

Not voting is anyone's right, just as voting is. It is not irresponsible at all. It could, in fact, be the most responsible thing to do, depending on the person's point of view. As that is what it is all about...that person's point of view.

kd4 · 10-23-2004, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalibah

Yeah I agree.

I hate it when people that dont vote complain.

But when I talk to *SOME* people who don't vote, Im sort of glad they dont.... They are the kind of people that vote on the political ads....

oh man, I hate people that are like "OMFG I SAW FARENHEIT 9/11!! I'm gonna vote Kerry." and I know yes the movie is based on some facts, but a lot is skewed.

Kalibah · 10-23-2004, 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kd4

oh man, I hate people that are like "OMFG I SAW FARENHEIT 9/11!! I'm gonna vote Kerry." and I know yes the movie is based on some facts, but a lot is skewed.

Meh I just saw FarenHYPE 9/11 I thought it was an excellent rebuttal with plenty of SOURCES....

kd4 · 10-23-2004, 01:44 AM

as in they normally don't care about politics, but seeing farenheit 9/11, they think they've got all the information down.

mrdarcy · 10-23-2004, 08:11 AM

If you truly want every uninformed voter to vote, why not just choose our officials with a dart board?
Please save us from stupid and uninformed voters!

IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE VOTING FOR, DON'T VOTE!!!

If you and I have differing oppinions on what direction the nation should go and who would be best to take us in that direction, that is fine. But don't muck it up by getting in there and voteing for someone just because the name is familiar, or you always voted for that party.

seep · 10-23-2004, 08:37 AM

I'm not sure why people think voting is such a big deal. How much control do you really think we have? Hell, I live in TX so no matter who I vote for I'm "wasting my vote". Bush is getting our electoral votes, there's nothing I or another thousand people like me can do about it.

I didn't vote last election. The only lesson I learned in all that controversy is that if I want my vote to count I should move to Florida or get appointed to the Supreme Court, because it was exactly the same situation then.

I'm probably going to go write in Nader tomorrow just to shut up people who tell me that if I don't vote I can't complain. It still won't actually make the slightest difference, but at least I'll be able to complain no matter who wins.

flstf · 10-23-2004, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seep

I'm probably going to go write in Nader tomorrow just to shut up people who tell me that if I don't vote I can't complain. It still won't actually make the slightest difference, but at least I'll be able to complain no matter who wins.

It seems to me that the folks voting are endorsing the sham election and should be the last to complain about the system. The non-voting protesters should have every right to continue protesting (complaining) against these fixed elections.

Strange Famous · 10-23-2004, 09:43 AM

Well, I can justify it, although I have always voted in national elections anyway.

If I am a communist, and every candidate that stands is a capitalist, who shall I vote for? No political party represents my views or interests, there are very small socialist parties but they are mostly full of Leninist and Trotskyite in-fighting, I have never come across a genuinelyt communist party... so who shall I vote for?

Maybe I should stand myself since no one represents me... but that costs £1500 and I cant afford it... so I cannot afford to really take part in the democratic process... everything- the media, the electoral law, the coalition of powerful parties - has an interest in maintaining the status quo, of denying any real ideological debate.

The present society will not be ovethrown by a capitalist liberal democratic election... the revolution will not come through the ballot box.

Strange Famous · 10-23-2004, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrdarcy

If you truly want every uninformed voter to vote, why not just choose our officials with a dart board?
Please save us from stupid and uninformed voters!

IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE VOTING FOR, DON'T VOTE!!!

If you and I have differing oppinions on what direction the nation should go and who would be best to take us in that direction, that is fine. But don't muck it up by getting in there and voteing for someone just because the name is familiar, or you always voted for that party.

election by lottery would be superior to the present system.

Tophat665 · 10-23-2004, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

Maybe punishments for not having a clue?

The punishment for not having a clue is Bush, my friend. Women who vote for him are really asking to have their plumbing regulated according to the scribblings of 2000 year dead men. Close as this election is going to be, women who don't vote (or thrown away their vote on a third party) have voted for Bush.

Aladdin Sane · 10-23-2004, 01:08 PM

Just for a point of reference, I taught social studies (including government) to public high school students for 13 years.

It makes absolutely no sense to encourage voting among the ignorant masses. If Joe has no interest in politics, knows nothing about the issues, and can't find the time or the inclination to education himself, why should he be induced to vote? Drunks are jailed for driving. Voting while under a self-imposed ignorance is just as dangerous.

FatherTed · 10-23-2004, 01:41 PM

It seems to me that the people who dont vote feel they dont have to justify themselves to anyone.

They believe they live in their own cocoon and can largely ignore the outside world.
It is, IMHO, patently untrue but try telling them that their vote will make a difference. There is a battle and a half.

Irishsean · 10-23-2004, 04:21 PM

The argument about not wanting the ignorant to vote is bullshit. If someone is ignorant about the election process or the candidates, they should take the time to learn about it, if they choose not to, then they obviously don't give a rat's ass about this country or the sacrifices people have made for it. In my opinion, if you don't care about the country, you shouldn't be allowed to partake in it, so you should get the hell out. If you aren't willing to spend a little of your precious time to actually learn about or choose a candidate, even to write one in, you don't deserve to call yourself an american.

Aborted · 10-23-2004, 05:25 PM

People have the right to vote or not for whatever reasons they deem fit, and that's how it should be. Perhaps a little honesty and a slightly more updated approach to wooeing the electorate on the part of politicians would help get people voting and for the right reasons. Or maybe parties should readopt ideologies, and stop with the predictable promises to do the opposite of everything the previous administration was criticised for.

I think if people's perception of politics as a whole was enhanced, then perhaps voting would once again be worth something.

SirSeymour · 10-23-2004, 06:19 PM

Personally, I think it is overstating it to say that people have the right NOT to vote. They have the choice, yes, but I hardly see it as a right.

To me, this is yet more evidence to support my belief that most of the population of the US has forgotten that with great freedom comes great responsibility. We have the freedom to vote or not but responsibility dictates that only one of those options is truely viable. Supporting the "right" to not vote for those who don't want to is to support their irresponsibility.

ARTelevision · 10-23-2004, 06:23 PM

Yes, I overstated it. I do not typically speak of "rights" as I am aware only of power relationships. My statement included a small dose of humor. I am perfectly content with good citizens not exercising their "right to vote" for any reason they so choose. I respect them no less than those who vote.

Irishsean · 10-23-2004, 06:57 PM

I don't see voting or taking an interest in government as a right at all, I see it as a responsibility. If you choose to shirk your responsibility to your fellow citizens and your government by not taking an interest in it, or keeping it in check, I don't think government should have to follow its responsibility to protect or take care of you.
What goes around comes around, if you don't care enough about something to spend some time learning about it, don't be surprised when it bites you in the ass.

nottwood · 10-23-2004, 07:57 PM

Voting is a right. Not Voting is not against the law. One still has the freedom to do either. People can still bitch even if they didn't vote. If they get pissed enough then hopefully they will vote.

theusername · 10-23-2004, 08:19 PM

It is a free country. Everyone "should" be educated and vote. I'm not one of those people to say, "ignorant people shouldn't be voting" or any crap like that. However, if someone chooses not to vote then that's their option.

mrdarcy · 10-23-2004, 08:45 PM

I never said that the ignorant should not vote. That would disinfranchise a great deal of us. I said that the uninformed should not vote.

If your vote cancels mine because we are of differing opinions, even if you arrived at your opinion through faulty reasoning, I respect you for that. If you cancel my vote because you think, "what the heck, this candidate is as good as this one." then you have done me a grievous harm.

theusername · 10-23-2004, 09:01 PM

www.dictionary.com. I don't mean to be a dick but Ignorant - to be unaware or uninformed.

MSD · 10-23-2004, 09:42 PM

Forcing people to vote can force them to support someone who they do not want to support. Take the example given by Strange Famous, he is not represented by anyone on the ballot. To force him to vote would force him to compromise his principles and act against his conscience. If you force people to vote for the least of all evils, you are still forcing them to support evil. My voting district uses lever-type voting booths. There is no option for a write-in.

10-22-2004, 06:35 PM	#1 (permalink)
Irishsean edited for content Location: Austin, TX	How can people justify not voting? I've heard a lot of comments lately about people not liking Kerry or Bush, so they are not gonna vote for anyone. If you don't like the political situation as it is, aren't you somehow bound to try and fix it? There are plenty of candidates for president if you add in all the third parties, I'm sure there is someone anyone could vote for. I'm of the opinion, if you don't vote, you can't bitch about how it turns out. I got really sick of the last election when people whined about bush winning or the controversy and come to find out they hadn't even voted. If you really care about how the election turns out, make sure you vote on the 2nd. __________________ There are no absolute rules of conduct, either in peace or war. Everything depends on circumstances. Leon Trotsky

10-22-2004, 06:44 PM	#3 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	I have several employees. One of them, 24, has never followed anything political, has NO idea what the parties are (just their names) and does not vote. Should she be forced to? __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

10-22-2004, 06:59 PM	#4 (permalink)
Irishsean edited for content Location: Austin, TX	Why not? IMO she should be taking some personal responsibility in how our nation is run and learn about what parties and candidates stand for. __________________ There are no absolute rules of conduct, either in peace or war. Everything depends on circumstances. Leon Trotsky

10-22-2004, 07:04 PM	#5 (permalink)
SirSeymour Ambling Toward the Light Location: The Early 16th Century	Which is why I no longer support universal sufferage for all citizens who are not felons and are over the age of 21. Anything free is not valued. The vote is now free as long as you register. Maybe if there was some addition work required to earn it, more folks would do it. __________________ SQL query SELECT * FROM users WHERE clue > 0 Zero rows returned....

10-22-2004, 09:28 PM	#10 (permalink)
Stompy Banned from being Banned Location: Donkey	If they have no interest in politics whatsoever then no, not voting doesn't matter, really. You can't force someone to do something they have no interest in. If, however, the person is even remotely concerned about politics... (ie "anti bush/kerry") and they don't vote, that's irresponsibility and laziness. Generally it's the whole "blah blah, I hate so and so, but I won't get off my ass and do anything about it." It's annoying. IMO, if you didn't vote, you can't really complain about who's in office. I guess this does change from state to state... if you lived in CA (guaranteed democrats) and you hate Bush and don't vote, it's not as bad as you living in, say, Utah or Texas as someone who hates bush and doesn't vote. __________________ I love lamp.

10-22-2004, 06:38 PM	#2 (permalink)
cthulu23 Banned	If voting changed anything it would be illegal. If not voting changed anything it would be illegal. Even if one is fed up with the two party system there are plenty of good reasons to vote, like local ballot initiatives, tax renewals, state constitutional amendments (we get a lot of these in Louisiana), etc.

10-22-2004, 07:11 PM	#6 (permalink)
ravenradiodj Crazy	This country was bought and paid for a long time ago, and the same old rich white money families are going to be running things no matter which member of the Skull and Bones wins. They may toss the ball back and forth a few times, but ultimately, nothing happens. Wealth and privelige have always ruled Western civilization, whether it was from behind a king's throne or a president's desk. If the last election didn't prove to you that your vote has absolutely no meaning....if the backdoor program into the Diebold voting machines that can change the results into anything you want them to be doesn't do it.....if the very existence of the electoral college doesn't....if the universal exclusion of all "other party" candidates in debates, media coverage and funding doesn't.....if the fact that both candidates plan on continuing our illegal presence in Iraq and Afghanistan doesn't....then there's nothing anyone can say or do to convince you that the entire thing is an aburd farce.

10-22-2004, 09:28 PM	#9 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	Uninformed voters are more dangerous than uninformed non-voters. Anyone who wants to have people shot and/or deported should consider meditation. Anger can cause stress levels to rise, and meditation can reduce stress naturally. Breath in...breath out....

10-22-2004, 09:33 PM	#11 (permalink)
gondath Insane Location: Alton, IL	Most people won't vote because they are lazy, pure and simple.

10-22-2004, 09:41 PM	#12 (permalink)
ARTelevision I change Location: USA	Free Will. I would never take away someone's right to not vote. __________________ create evolution

10-22-2004, 10:22 PM	#14 (permalink)
SecretMethod70 Human Administrator Location: Chicago	I'm proud of the choice people have to not vote. Most non-voters are not informed people who are too lazy but, rather, politically apathetic. Therefore, the fact they don't vote is a good thing. I'd rather see lower turnout with more informed voters. __________________ Le temps détruit tout "Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

10-22-2004, 10:54 PM	#16 (permalink)
Rekna Junkie	Voting when you have no prefrence or voting when you don't know anything about the canidates is irresponible

10-22-2004, 11:25 PM	#17 (permalink)
Kalibah Insane Location: Padded Playhouse	Yeah I agree. I hate it when people that dont vote complain. But when I talk to SOME people who don't vote, Im sort of glad they dont.... They are the kind of people that vote on the political ads....

10-22-2004, 11:43 PM	#18 (permalink)
flstf Easy Rider Location: Moscow on the Ohio	The way the system is skewed to insure that the people in power (Democrats and Republicans) will surely maintain that power makes not voting an excellent choice. Don't let them think we endorse the farce and buy into their silly soundbites. Why give any credibility to such a corrupt system. Oh sure, third parties are allowed in, they just aren't invited to the debates or given any press coverage and are guaranteed to not make a difference. My wife who escaped from the iron curtain years ago informs me that they had almost 100% voter turnout during their elections but there was really no choice, only the communist. Just like here, no real choice but the Democrat/Republican. The communists forced a high turnout so they could show how much the people supported the system. The people would have chosen to stay away from the polls in protest but then they would lose their jobs, housing, etc.. I'd like to see folks not endorse either one of these party puppets and have the president decided by about 10% of the vote. Sure, go to the polls and vote for dog catcher and other locals but only if they run as independants, LOL.

10-23-2004, 12:00 AM	#19 (permalink)
docbungle It's all downhill from here Location: Denver	Not voting is anyone's right, just as voting is. It is not irresponsible at all. It could, in fact, be the most responsible thing to do, depending on the person's point of view. As that is what it is all about...that person's point of view. __________________ Bad Luck City

10-23-2004, 01:44 AM	#22 (permalink)
kd4 Upright	as in they normally don't care about politics, but seeing farenheit 9/11, they think they've got all the information down.

10-23-2004, 08:11 AM	#23 (permalink)
mrdarcy Tilted Location: down the street from Graceland	If you truly want every uninformed voter to vote, why not just choose our officials with a dart board? Please save us from stupid and uninformed voters! IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE VOTING FOR, DON'T VOTE!!! If you and I have differing oppinions on what direction the nation should go and who would be best to take us in that direction, that is fine. But don't muck it up by getting in there and voteing for someone just because the name is familiar, or you always voted for that party. __________________ [Insert pithy comment here]

10-23-2004, 08:37 AM	#24 (permalink)
seep Tilted	I'm not sure why people think voting is such a big deal. How much control do you really think we have? Hell, I live in TX so no matter who I vote for I'm "wasting my vote". Bush is getting our electoral votes, there's nothing I or another thousand people like me can do about it. I didn't vote last election. The only lesson I learned in all that controversy is that if I want my vote to count I should move to Florida or get appointed to the Supreme Court, because it was exactly the same situation then. I'm probably going to go write in Nader tomorrow just to shut up people who tell me that if I don't vote I can't complain. It still won't actually make the slightest difference, but at least I'll be able to complain no matter who wins.

10-23-2004, 09:43 AM	#26 (permalink)
Strange Famous follower of the child's crusade?	Well, I can justify it, although I have always voted in national elections anyway. If I am a communist, and every candidate that stands is a capitalist, who shall I vote for? No political party represents my views or interests, there are very small socialist parties but they are mostly full of Leninist and Trotskyite in-fighting, I have never come across a genuinelyt communist party... so who shall I vote for? Maybe I should stand myself since no one represents me... but that costs £1500 and I cant afford it... so I cannot afford to really take part in the democratic process... everything- the media, the electoral law, the coalition of powerful parties - has an interest in maintaining the status quo, of denying any real ideological debate. The present society will not be ovethrown by a capitalist liberal democratic election... the revolution will not come through the ballot box. __________________ "Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate, for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain without being uncovered." The Gospel of Thomas

10-23-2004, 01:08 PM	#29 (permalink)
Aladdin Sane Degenerate Location: San Marvelous	Just for a point of reference, I taught social studies (including government) to public high school students for 13 years. It makes absolutely no sense to encourage voting among the ignorant masses. If Joe has no interest in politics, knows nothing about the issues, and can't find the time or the inclination to education himself, why should he be induced to vote? Drunks are jailed for driving. Voting while under a self-imposed ignorance is just as dangerous. __________________ Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

10-23-2004, 01:41 PM	#30 (permalink)
FatherTed Crazy Location: Ireland	It seems to me that the people who dont vote feel they dont have to justify themselves to anyone. They believe they live in their own cocoon and can largely ignore the outside world. It is, IMHO, patently untrue but try telling them that their vote will make a difference. There is a battle and a half.

10-23-2004, 04:21 PM	#31 (permalink)
Irishsean edited for content Location: Austin, TX	The argument about not wanting the ignorant to vote is bullshit. If someone is ignorant about the election process or the candidates, they should take the time to learn about it, if they choose not to, then they obviously don't give a rat's ass about this country or the sacrifices people have made for it. In my opinion, if you don't care about the country, you shouldn't be allowed to partake in it, so you should get the hell out. If you aren't willing to spend a little of your precious time to actually learn about or choose a candidate, even to write one in, you don't deserve to call yourself an american. __________________ There are no absolute rules of conduct, either in peace or war. Everything depends on circumstances. Leon Trotsky

10-23-2004, 05:25 PM	#32 (permalink)
Aborted Tilted Location: London	People have the right to vote or not for whatever reasons they deem fit, and that's how it should be. Perhaps a little honesty and a slightly more updated approach to wooeing the electorate on the part of politicians would help get people voting and for the right reasons. Or maybe parties should readopt ideologies, and stop with the predictable promises to do the opposite of everything the previous administration was criticised for. I think if people's perception of politics as a whole was enhanced, then perhaps voting would once again be worth something.

10-23-2004, 06:19 PM	#33 (permalink)
SirSeymour Ambling Toward the Light Location: The Early 16th Century	Personally, I think it is overstating it to say that people have the right NOT to vote. They have the choice, yes, but I hardly see it as a right. To me, this is yet more evidence to support my belief that most of the population of the US has forgotten that with great freedom comes great responsibility. We have the freedom to vote or not but responsibility dictates that only one of those options is truely viable. Supporting the "right" to not vote for those who don't want to is to support their irresponsibility. __________________ SQL query SELECT * FROM users WHERE clue > 0 Zero rows returned....

10-23-2004, 06:23 PM	#34 (permalink)
ARTelevision I change Location: USA	Yes, I overstated it. I do not typically speak of "rights" as I am aware only of power relationships. My statement included a small dose of humor. I am perfectly content with good citizens not exercising their "right to vote" for any reason they so choose. I respect them no less than those who vote. __________________ create evolution

10-23-2004, 06:57 PM	#35 (permalink)
Irishsean edited for content Location: Austin, TX	I don't see voting or taking an interest in government as a right at all, I see it as a responsibility. If you choose to shirk your responsibility to your fellow citizens and your government by not taking an interest in it, or keeping it in check, I don't think government should have to follow its responsibility to protect or take care of you. What goes around comes around, if you don't care enough about something to spend some time learning about it, don't be surprised when it bites you in the ass. __________________ There are no absolute rules of conduct, either in peace or war. Everything depends on circumstances. Leon Trotsky

10-23-2004, 07:57 PM	#36 (permalink)
nottwood Tilted	Voting is a right. Not Voting is not against the law. One still has the freedom to do either. People can still bitch even if they didn't vote. If they get pissed enough then hopefully they will vote.

10-23-2004, 08:19 PM	#37 (permalink)
theusername Insane	It is a free country. Everyone "should" be educated and vote. I'm not one of those people to say, "ignorant people shouldn't be voting" or any crap like that. However, if someone chooses not to vote then that's their option. __________________ ?

10-23-2004, 08:45 PM	#38 (permalink)
mrdarcy Tilted Location: down the street from Graceland	I never said that the ignorant should not vote. That would disinfranchise a great deal of us. I said that the uninformed should not vote. If your vote cancels mine because we are of differing opinions, even if you arrived at your opinion through faulty reasoning, I respect you for that. If you cancel my vote because you think, "what the heck, this candidate is as good as this one." then you have done me a grievous harm. __________________ [Insert pithy comment here]

10-23-2004, 09:01 PM	#39 (permalink)
theusername Insane	www.dictionary.com. I don't mean to be a dick but Ignorant - to be unaware or uninformed. __________________ ?

10-23-2004, 09:42 PM	#40 (permalink)
MSD The sky calls to us ... Super Moderator Location: CT	Forcing people to vote can force them to support someone who they do not want to support. Take the example given by Strange Famous, he is not represented by anyone on the ballot. To force him to vote would force him to compromise his principles and act against his conscience. If you force people to vote for the least of all evils, you are still forcing them to support evil. My voting district uses lever-type voting booths. There is no option for a write-in.