Where's the good in Kerry??? - Page 2 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Lebell · 10-20-2004, 12:56 PM

I agree with his views on abortion rights.

89transam · 10-20-2004, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daswig

Too bad he can't pay for even a tithe of them...

Right cause bush has been so good about this issue...

Tex · 10-20-2004, 05:58 PM

I like the fact that Kerry, while being catholic, still understands the importance of the separaration between church/state.

Sparhawk · 10-20-2004, 06:23 PM

He speaks truth to power, and he doesn't live in a bubble.

shortynickel · 10-20-2004, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guthmund

1- I agree with the vast majority of Sen. Kerry's positions and policies. Since no one single candidate can share all of my personal positions on every issue, I have to vote for the candidate who I agree the most with. In this case, that man is Sen. John Kerry.

thats perfect wording...the reason i am voting for kerry is:

I do agree with what bush did after 9-11, also I thought it was a good idea to go into iraq...but i think he didnt follow thru with what SHOULD have been done...and i think Kerry would be able to do what SHOULD have been done originally.

high_jinx · 10-20-2004, 06:51 PM

here are the conclusions i came to after starting the "wheres the good in bush" forum after not getting any convincing points from the bush camp. the thread was subsequently destroyed by people who i'm convinced were embarrassed by the lack of good points before anyone responded to my conclusions. therefore, i submit to you here why after being on the fence i'm voting for kerry.

Quote:

Originally Posted by high_jinx

1) it's my opinion that ANY- body in office would make national security and fighting/suppressing terrorism a top priority. quite simply it's a no-brainer obvious issue.

2) no matter how much money we spend or how many terrorist rings we squash, there ARE going to be more terrorist attacks. we're only a suitcase getting through our borders away from something really nasty happening to an entire city. and with all the illegal things being sneaked into our country each year from drugs to weapons to anything you want to name, it's obvious our border security can't prevent that. so, while anti terrorism is and should be a top priority, it's possible to overdo it and have the entire country suffer as a result. i see this happening with the deficit we've racked up, the jobs we've lost, and the health care so many of us (including me) don't have anymore.

3) when speaking of bush and his record, i can't help but think that his invasion of iraq has actually hurt our ability to go after terrorists. it's a siev that all of our resources are leaking into while other countries are much more likely to pose a threat.

The republican camp says that bush has kept us focused for 3 years on our national security, and thats the big reason he should be re-elected. i'm not so sure about that. i think the president is an office that has more than one dimension to it. thats why i started this thread.[good/bush] i was looking for anything i hadn't heard about bush that showed him to be competent at leading this country. it doesn't seem like bush is even thinking about so many things that are so important to our country's future. if national security is all he knows, then he should be our national security advisor, not our president.

even though i don't particularly like either candidate, at least kerry is looking inward as well as outward. and i think it's just plain ridiculous to attack someone for changing their mind about something after they see it's warped or isn't working. so to me, all that "waffle" talk about kerry does more to discredit the accusers than the accused. That and the "liberal" name calling going on seem like simple mantras to mindlessly throw around while steering clear about considering whats really important to us remaining a strong and healthy nation.

TheFu · 10-21-2004, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goppers

I'm keen on stem cell research. that's probably my #1 issue, but i work in health sciences, so it would be a bit higher on my list than others. Interesting article about the prop in CA dealing with stem cell research in the New Yorker last week (I think it was last week).

I don't think there is any kind of ban on stem cell research. It just isn't government funded. I have nothing against it but I think it is an overblown issue. Why is it suddenly an issue?

Kalibah · 10-21-2004, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheFu

I don't think there is any kind of ban on stem cell research. It just isn't government funded. I have nothing against it but I think it is an overblown issue. Why is it suddenly an issue?

Actually it isnt ALL stem cell research

"You should also know that stem cells can be derived from sources other than embryos -- from adult cells, from umbilical cords that are discarded after babies are born, from human placenta.**"

Its embyronic stem cell research that is catching flak from religious groups. Killing embyros that are days-old.

Bush has goverment funding for EXISTING stem cell lines - there are about 60 IIRC.

Bush does fund research for existing lines.

People, imho make this too much of a big deal- they act like if only Bush allowed it we could cure diseases within a decade or so. I think it would be more a valid point, if we had exausted research on these existing lines, of which we have not.

Bush is the first president to allow any funding for this type of research btw.

daswig · 10-21-2004, 10:45 PM

On stem cell research: There are lots of other sources of stem cells that don't involve destroying embryos. They can harvest stem cells from the adult nose, and from the umbilical cord blood of newborn infants. When my daughter was born, we tried to find SOMEBODY in the private sector that wanted the stem cells from the cord blood for research, and was willing to pay for the cost of their harvesting. We were not asking to be paid, we just wanted them to pay for the harvesting expenses. NOBODY was willing to take us up on it, and the cost was less than a thousand dollars to harvest them and get them ready for research.

There are plenty of stem cells available, and they aren't terribly expensive to harvest. (commercial for-profit stem cell banking organizations charge around $2K to bank them, plus an annual storage fee) Nobody in the scientific world is willing to pay for them. So why should the government step in?

Kalibah · 10-21-2004, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daswig

On stem cell research: There are lots of other sources of stem cells that don't involve destroying embryos. They can harvest stem cells from the adult nose, and from the umbilical cord blood of newborn infants. When my daughter was born, we tried to find SOMEBODY in the private sector that wanted the stem cells from the cord blood for research, and was willing to pay for the cost of their harvesting. We were not asking to be paid, we just wanted them to pay for the harvesting expenses. NOBODY was willing to take us up on it, and the cost was less than a thousand dollars to harvest them and get them ready for research.

There are plenty of stem cells available, and they aren't terribly expensive to harvest. (commercial for-profit stem cell banking organizations charge around $2K to bank them, plus an annual storage fee) Nobody in the scientific world is willing to pay for them. So why should the government step in?

Yeah, Embyronic scares me- because well if they wait 21 weeks - they could harvest a heart- and if you are pro-abortion- you dont recognize that as a living being- so its okay to take the heart right?

We'd be harvesting organs.

Okay okay some say its a long jump - imho its not though- its the natural progression

Mephisto2 · 10-21-2004, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalibah

Yeah, Embyronic scares me- because well if they wait 21 weeks - they could harvest a heart- and if you are pro-abortion- you dont recognize that as a living being- so its okay to take the heart right?

We'd be harvesting organs.

Okay okay some say its a long jump - imho its not though- its the natural progression

Hah, that reminds of Larry Niven's old sciene fiction. Did anyone else ever read those short stories, or indeed novels? A Gift From Earth for example?

Mr Mephisto

daswig · 10-21-2004, 11:06 PM

Larry Niven's a twisted individual.

Kalibah · 10-21-2004, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Mephisto

Hah, that reminds of Larry Niven's old sciene fiction. Did anyone else ever read those short stories, or indeed novels? A Gift From Earth for example?

Mr Mephisto

so you disagree that logically thats the next step? I mean if they arent alive- why not?

Mephisto2 · 10-21-2004, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalibah

so you disagree that logically thats the next step? I mean if they arent alive- why not?

I don't disagree with anything in making the above comment. And please don't put words in my mouth. Lighten up and stop seeing confrontation in every shadow.

I was commenting on some good old fashioned SciFi stories I read when younger.

Mr Mephisto

high_jinx · 10-23-2004, 08:59 PM

on stem cell research...

it's about the larger issue.... it's a tree in the abortion forest. kerry believes that abortion should be a woman's decision, and from there we should be able to use the cells removed from dead things to help people who are here today and have a small percentage of a life now live full and healthy lives. bush flipflops here by saying he doesn't want government to run your life (healthcare) but he does want the government to run the lives of countless women.

that's part of the good in kerry too, keeping on the topic... he'll block the fundamentalist religous's takeover of our supreme court, which will protect our constitution.

rukkyg · 10-23-2004, 10:16 PM

Kerry may have social values but doesn't think it's the government's place to impose them on people who don't share those values. I despise people who think they should be able to force me to do something just because their religion says so.

Kerry will do a slightly better job at helping regular people as opposed to corporations by supporting laws that will protect the health and welfare of people at the expense of corporate profits.

tspikes51 · 10-25-2004, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by high_jinx

here are the conclusions i came to after starting the "wheres the good in bush" forum after not getting any convincing points from the bush camp. the thread was subsequently destroyed by people who i'm convinced were embarrassed by the lack of good points before anyone responded to my conclusions. therefore, i submit to you here why after being on the fence i'm voting for kerry.

Look at the rules I set for this thread.

Super_Mole · 10-25-2004, 01:42 PM

Let me give you all an outline:

I. War in Iraq - Kerry truly wants to set this country on the right course. He won't waste money on a war we shouldn't be in. He will get the Iraqi troops trained as soon as humanly possible, and won't use the "close" Iraqi elections as some rediculous pedastal. He knows what it is like to be in a near hopeless and misguided war (Vietnam). He truly wants to get the troops out of that hell-hole so more don't die against a force of suicidal radicals that is near impossible to fight by conventional standards. He actually realizes where terrorism truly is and will send our armed forces to those places to effeciantly eliminate them and truly make the world a safer place.

II. Foreign Policy - Whether you like to hear it or not, the truth is that Bush isolated America, and totally disreguarded the UN. For, that America has been hurt on the war front and at home. Countries are constantly dropping out of the alliance (even the much touted Poland). Some say that just getting Kerry into office won't change the world's opinion about us. The truth of the matter is, it will . Kerry is a confident and intelligent man that could effectively lead this country and others toward making the world safer. Other countries will see that the US finally wised up and kicked Bush and his corrupt administration (don't get me started on Haliburton) out of power.

III. Environment - This is just blatantly obvious. A friend of mine went up to the site where they want to drill for oil in Alaska, and he came back and said it was one of the most beautiful places he's ever been to. Republicans use their religion as a platform (sadly) and they never even think about what they're destroying by drilling all over the place. They're ruining the very beauty of nature that God has blessed us with. You can shove that up your "moral" asses.

Ok, now I'm just angry. I'll write more later. For now, enjoy!

10-20-2004, 12:56 PM	#41 (permalink)
Lebell Cracking the Whip Location: Sexymama's arms...	I agree with his views on abortion rights. __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate!

10-20-2004, 05:58 PM	#43 (permalink)
Tex Crazy Location: Orange County, CA	I like the fact that Kerry, while being catholic, still understands the importance of the separaration between church/state. __________________ "All I know is that I know nothing..."

10-20-2004, 06:23 PM	#44 (permalink)
Sparhawk Dubya Location: VA	He speaks truth to power, and he doesn't live in a bubble. __________________ "In Iraq, no doubt about it, it's tough. It's hard work. It's incredibly hard. It's - and it's hard work. I understand how hard it is. I get the casualty reports every day. I see on the TV screens how hard it is. But it's necessary work. We're making progress. It is hard work."

10-23-2004, 08:59 PM	#55 (permalink)
high_jinx Psycho Location: venice beach, ca	on stem cell research... it's about the larger issue.... it's a tree in the abortion forest. kerry believes that abortion should be a woman's decision, and from there we should be able to use the cells removed from dead things to help people who are here today and have a small percentage of a life now live full and healthy lives. bush flipflops here by saying he doesn't want government to run your life (healthcare) but he does want the government to run the lives of countless women. that's part of the good in kerry too, keeping on the topic... he'll block the fundamentalist religous's takeover of our supreme court, which will protect our constitution. __________________ -my phobia drowned while i was gettin down.

10-25-2004, 01:42 PM	#58 (permalink)
Super_Mole Upright Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Go Steelers!)	Let me give you all an outline: I. War in Iraq - Kerry truly wants to set this country on the right course. He won't waste money on a war we shouldn't be in. He will get the Iraqi troops trained as soon as humanly possible, and won't use the "close" Iraqi elections as some rediculous pedastal. He knows what it is like to be in a near hopeless and misguided war (Vietnam). He truly wants to get the troops out of that hell-hole so more don't die against a force of suicidal radicals that is near impossible to fight by conventional standards. He actually realizes where terrorism truly is and will send our armed forces to those places to effeciantly eliminate them and truly make the world a safer place. II. Foreign Policy - Whether you like to hear it or not, the truth is that Bush isolated America, and totally disreguarded the UN. For, that America has been hurt on the war front and at home. Countries are constantly dropping out of the alliance (even the much touted Poland). Some say that just getting Kerry into office won't change the world's opinion about us. The truth of the matter is, it will . Kerry is a confident and intelligent man that could effectively lead this country and others toward making the world safer. Other countries will see that the US finally wised up and kicked Bush and his corrupt administration (don't get me started on Haliburton) out of power. III. Environment - This is just blatantly obvious. A friend of mine went up to the site where they want to drill for oil in Alaska, and he came back and said it was one of the most beautiful places he's ever been to. Republicans use their religion as a platform (sadly) and they never even think about what they're destroying by drilling all over the place. They're ruining the very beauty of nature that God has blessed us with. You can shove that up your "moral" asses. Ok, now I'm just angry. I'll write more later. For now, enjoy! __________________ How many kids with ADD does it take to screw in a lightbulb... lets go ride bikes.

10-21-2004, 10:45 PM	#49 (permalink)
daswig Banned Location: BFE	On stem cell research: There are lots of other sources of stem cells that don't involve destroying embryos. They can harvest stem cells from the adult nose, and from the umbilical cord blood of newborn infants. When my daughter was born, we tried to find SOMEBODY in the private sector that wanted the stem cells from the cord blood for research, and was willing to pay for the cost of their harvesting. We were not asking to be paid, we just wanted them to pay for the harvesting expenses. NOBODY was willing to take us up on it, and the cost was less than a thousand dollars to harvest them and get them ready for research. There are plenty of stem cells available, and they aren't terribly expensive to harvest. (commercial for-profit stem cell banking organizations charge around $2K to bank them, plus an annual storage fee) Nobody in the scientific world is willing to pay for them. So why should the government step in?

10-21-2004, 11:06 PM	#52 (permalink)
daswig Banned Location: BFE	Larry Niven's a twisted individual.

10-23-2004, 10:16 PM	#56 (permalink)
rukkyg Loser Location: RPI, Troy, NY	Kerry may have social values but doesn't think it's the government's place to impose them on people who don't share those values. I despise people who think they should be able to force me to do something just because their religion says so. Kerry will do a slightly better job at helping regular people as opposed to corporations by supporting laws that will protect the health and welfare of people at the expense of corporate profits.