Kerry and Police Support - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

scout · 10-17-2004, 01:41 AM

It appears that Kerry doesn't have the widespread support of all the police he currently says or insinuates he has.

http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=38194

Just another example of how he will lie about anything to anyone about everything just to get elected.

{edit, he isn't the only one that does or says anything for a vote....there are some republicans just as bad ... just not running for president .....}

Arroe · 10-17-2004, 02:27 AM

Yes, over the past few weeks Kerry has been making quite a few misguided presumptions.

I especially liked during the last debate when Kerry said Senator McCain would support him as president and how Bush corrected him by reminding Kerry that McCain support's Bush's reelection. I was lucky enough to see the President and Senator McCain speak right after the debate here in Phoenix infront of 45,000 of his supporters and the President even noted there that McCain has campaigned heavily with him the past few weeks.

host · 10-17-2004, 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scout

It appears that Kerry doesn't have the widespread support of all the police he currently says or insinuates he has.

http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=38194

Just another example of how he will lie about anything to anyone about everything just to get elected.

{edit, he isn't the only one that does or says anything for a vote....there are some republicans just as bad ... just not running for president .....}

This is a thread which the Mods should consider, and then.............
Consider that this thread's "main point" is inaccurate and easily refuted:

Quote:

<a href="http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,135384,00.html">http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,135384,00.html</a>
Debate Fact Check
Wednesday, October 13, 2004

WASHINGTON — President Bush (search) overlooked a flip-flop of his own when he boasted Wednesday about launching the Homeland Security Department (search): He was against it before he was for it. John Kerry (search) told Americans he has a health care plan that covers all of them, when he doesn't.

Figures and rhetorical claims flew in the last presidential debate, and not all them were on target.

Kerry accurately quoted Bush as saying he does not think much about Osama bin Laden and is not all that concerned about him. The president protested: "I just don't think I ever said I'm not worried about Osama bin Laden. It's kind of one of those exaggerations."..........

Quote:

<a href="http://www.factcheck.org/article281.html">http://www.factcheck.org/article281.html</a>
(Third debate; Bush "Inaccuacies)
Wrong on Tax Cuts

Bush could hardly have been farther off base when he said most of his tax cuts "went to low- and middle-income Americans." That's just not true.

In fact, the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center recently calculated that most of the tax cuts -- 53% to be exact -- went to the highest -earning 10% of US individuals and families.Those most affluent Americans got an average tax cut of $7,661.

And as for the "low- and middle-income Americans" Bush mentioned -- the bottom 60% of individuals and families got only 13.7% of the tax cuts, according to the Tax Policy Center, a far cry from "most" of the cuts as claimed by Bush.

The President came closer to the mark, but still got it wrong, when he said in the same breath that the top 20% of earners pay "about 80% of the taxes in America today." That's incorrect.

In fact, as we reported only that morning, the Congressional Budget Office calculates that the top 20% now pay 63.5% of the total federal tax burden, which includes income taxes, payroll taxes and other federal levies. It's true that the top 20% pays nearly 81% of all federal income taxes, but the president spoke more expansively of "taxes in America," not just income taxes..........

Who Blocked Vaccine?

Bush: Bob, we relied upon a company out of England to provide about half of the flu vaccines for the United States (sic) citizen, and it turned out that the vaccine they were producing was contaminated. And so we took the right action and didn't allow contaminated medicine into our country.
Wrong on Flu Vaccine

It's not true, as Bush claimed, that "we took the right action" in blocking "contaminated" influenza vaccine from entering the US.

Actually, it was the British and not the US that blocked shipment. The British Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency, according to an Oct. 6 news release, suspended the license of Chiron Corp., the manufacturer of approximately 50% of the U.S. supply.

In fact, the Bush administration seems to have been caught by surprise when Chiron Corp. notified the US Center for Disease Control Oct. 5 that the company wouldn't be shipping the vaccine due to the British action. The US Food and Drug Administration didn't begin an investigation until five days later, according to an FDA news release .

It's also not clear how much of the vaccine is actually contaminated. The British agency said it suspended Chiron's license because of "concerns of possible microbial contamination." And the FDA news release refers to "findings concerning the contamination of some lots.".........

Bush said that in Iraq "We'll have 125,000 troops trained by the end of this year," which is wrong. Actually, the security forces being trained are a "mixed bag" of soldiers, border guards and even three-week "shake and bake" police officers, according to House testimony by Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage...............

Bush claimed fear of lawsuits drives doctors to "the defensive practice of medicine that costs the federal government some $28 billion a year and costs our society between $60 billion and $100 billion a year," which is contrary to nearly all academic studies of the matter..........

Bush again said Kerry "voted to increase taxes 98 times." But that total includes up to 16 votes on a single tax bill, and 43 votes on budget measures that set targets but don't actually legislate tax increases.

mrian · 10-17-2004, 02:35 AM

McCain probably supports both of them. I have always thought McCain was a good strong leader and senator for Arizona, but I disslike Bush very much. It suprises me that he has been so supportive of Bush.
A couple of my friends got to see bush drive by in his motorcade. And Kerry had a rally at tempe beach park by ASU a couple of my friends went to. Go Foo Fighters and I would rather vote for Grohl over either candidate and Badnarik.

tecoyah · 10-17-2004, 04:59 AM

Add this to the "Pointless Spin" section of the TFP....oh....wait....it seems that is already where it is.

scout · 10-17-2004, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by host

This is a thread which the Mods should consider, and then.............
Consider that this thread's "main point" is inaccurate and easily refuted:

Respectfully, I think you missed the point. This thread wasn't meant to be about flip-flops per se. The good Lord knows that they have both flip-flopped on numerous occasions. It was merely pointing out that Kerry doesn't have the support of the majority of the police nor does he have the support of the police in his continued support of the now defunct AWB, contrary to what he would have everyone believe. Sorry if you was confused!

cthulu23 · 10-17-2004, 01:23 PM

Scout,

If you actually read the story carefully (and it's a vague press release), you can see that the representative for the FOP wanted to make it clear that the FOP was not endorsing Kerry, although other police organizations have. They aren't saying that Kerry lied but that they wanted to demonstrate that not all police orgs are endorsing him. Lie about anything to anyone about everything? Not quite, although that sounds like a good Rush line.

scout · 10-17-2004, 06:08 PM

ctulu if you read it carefully you will see the FOP claims itself and I quote ...

"the largest organization representing America's Federal, State and local law enforcement officers, I believe it's important to point out yet again that we do not support his candidacy for President," Canterbury said. "And to be perfectly frank, the groups which do support him actually share the same membership rolls and, taken together, probably comprise less than one-quarter of our nation's police officers."

So in other words a very small minority. I never stated Kerry lied, merely he overstated and insinuated he had more support than in fact he did in regards to exactly how many police officers supported his campaign and how many echoed his support for the now defunct AWB.

OpieCunningham · 10-17-2004, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scout

I never stated Kerry lied

Quote:

Originally Posted by scout

Just another example of how he will lie about anything to anyone about everything just to get elected.

Um .... yeah.

cthulu23 · 10-17-2004, 07:24 PM

So let's hear a quote that backs that claim up...he does have endorsements from some police organizations. You may be right, but you aren't giving me enough information to make that determination.

host · 10-17-2004, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scout

It appears that Kerry doesn't have the widespread support of all the police he currently says or insinuates he has.

http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=38194

Just another example of how he will lie about anything to anyone about everything just to get elected.

{edit, he isn't the only one that does or says anything for a vote....there are some republicans just as bad ... just not running for president .....}

My comment directed to the Mods:

Quote:

{edit, he isn't the only one that does or says anything for a vote....there are some republicans just as bad ... just not running for president .....}

Beginning a thread with an opinion that Kerry is a liar, and that Bush is not,
on the strength of a paid press release that, at most, persuades us that
Kerry misinterpreted and or misstated the depth of the support of his candidacy by the law enforcement community, should be critiqued by the
forum moderators. The only redeeming factor of your thread opening statement is that now, you have exhibited your standard of what will pass muster as an informed opinion on the TFP political forum.

Ustwo · 10-17-2004, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tecoyah

Add this to the "Pointless Spin" section of the TFP....oh....wait....it seems that is already where it is.

A closed mind is a terrible thing to see.

daswig · 10-17-2004, 09:59 PM

Host, you need some cheese to go with that?

scout · 10-18-2004, 02:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cthulu23

So let's hear a quote that backs that claim up...he does have endorsements from some police organizations. You may be right, but you aren't giving me enough information to make that determination.

Alrighty then, I guess you shoulda watched the last debate. Twentyfive percent is certainly stretching the limits on "most". This is quoted directly from the transcript of the last debate found here

http://www.debates.org/pages/trans2004d.html

There's more I'm sure but I don't have time to look it all up at the moment, work beckons. So this one instance will have to suffice for the moment.

SCHIEFFER: Mr. President, new question, two minutes.

You said that if Congress would vote to extend the ban on assault weapons, that you'd sign the legislation, but you did nothing to encourage the Congress to extend it. Why not?

BUSH: Actually, I made my intentions -- made my views clear. I did think we ought to extend the assault weapons ban, and was told the fact that the bill was never going to move, because Republicans and Democrats were against the assault weapon ban, people of both parties. I believe law-abiding citizens ought to be able to own a gun. I believe in background checks at gun shows or anywhere to make sure that guns don't get in the hands of people that shouldn't have them.

But the best way to protect our citizens from guns is to prosecute those who commit crimes with guns. And that's why early in my administration I called the attorney general and the U. S. attorneys and said: Put together a task force all around the country to prosecute those who commit crimes with guns. And the prosecutions are up by about 68 percent -- I believe -- is the number.

Neighborhoods are safer when we crack down on people who commit crimes with guns.

To me, that's the best way to secure America.

SCHIEFFER: Senator?

KERRY: I believe it was a failure of presidential leadership not to reauthorize the assault weapons ban.

I am a hunter. I'm a gun owner. I've been a hunter since I was a kid, 12, 13 years old. And I respect the Second Amendment and I will not tamper with the Second Amendment.

But I'll tell you this. I'm also a former law enforcement officer. I ran one of the largest district attorney's offices in America, one of the ten largest. I put people behind bars for the rest of their life. I've broken up organized crime. I know something about prosecuting.

And most of the law enforcement agencies in America wanted that assault weapons ban. They don't want to go into a drug bust and be facing an AK-47.

I was hunting in Iowa last year with a sheriff from one of the counties there, and he pointed to a house in back of us, and said, "See the house over? We just did a drug bust a week earlier, and the guy we arrested had an AK-47 lying on the bed right beside him. "

Because of the president's decision today, law enforcement officers will walk into a place that will be more dangerous. Terrorists can now come into America and go to a gun show and, without even a background check, buy an assault weapon today.

And that's what Osama bin Laden's handbook said, because we captured it in Afghanistan. It encouraged them to do it.

So I believe America's less safe.

If Tom DeLay or someone in the House said to me, "Sorry, we don't have the votes," I'd have said, "Then we're going to have a fight. "

And I'd have taken it out to the country and I'd have had every law enforcement officer in the country visit those congressmen. We'd have won what Bill Clinton won.

Kadath · 10-18-2004, 04:34 AM

scout, I don't see where he said most of the police support him. The only thing I could find that was close is "And most of the law enforcement agencies in America wanted that assault weapons ban. " And that isn't really that close. It's actually possible to want the assault weapons ban without wanting Kerry as President -- look at President Bush. He said he wanted the ban extended.

cthulu23 · 10-18-2004, 05:04 AM

Kadath is right...there is nothing in that statement that references how many police support him.

daswig · 10-18-2004, 10:15 AM

I know several hundred active cops, and have yet to meet the first one that actually supports Kerry. Of course, I live in the South...

The_Dunedan · 10-18-2004, 10:22 AM

Scout:
1: Terrorists would pay $600+ for a SEMI-auto AK clone why, again? They can get a REAL AK-47 for less than $20 in the areas where they operate.
2: If someone's dealing drugs ( illegally ) do you REALLY think they're going to go through the legal channels to buy an AK? Because that's the presumption here: that a law will stop a criminal.

filtherton · 10-18-2004, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

A closed mind is a terrible thing to see.

Do you always make such an effort at comedic irony?

scout · 10-18-2004, 12:03 PM

Kadath, his last line was " I'd have had every law enforcement officer in the country visit those congressmen. We'd have won what Bill Clinton won." While it's impossible to tell exactly how many police officers support Kerry, the typical layperson listening to these debates {without benefit of the internet and transcriptions} would assume by all the above statements that Kerry had the support of most law enforcement officers. I know I certainly did until I done a little research.

The DuneDan
Yes I agree, the AWB actually done little to curb crime. Very few crimes was ever committed by assualt weapons to begin with. Effectively it removed guns from law-abiding citizens moreso than criminals.

Kadath · 10-18-2004, 01:57 PM

"While it's impossible to tell exactly how many police officers support Kerry, the typical layperson listening to these debates {without benefit of the internet and transcriptions} would assume by all the above statements that Kerry had the support of most law enforcement officers. I know I certainly did until I done a little research. "

Well, that may be. It is possible to make a fallacious assumption based upon a statement made by a politician. But Kerry never stated he had the support of every police officer. Again, he's saying that the AWB is good for police officers because it means they can worry less about assault weapons used against them, and if he were President when the AWB was to be extended or dumped, he would have worked with them to extend the ban for their benefit.

daswig · 10-18-2004, 02:03 PM

kadath, how many police officers were bayonetted between 1994 and 2004? Because that's what the AW ban banned...bayonets.

tecoyah · 10-18-2004, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

A closed mind is a terrible thing to see.

I do so agree with you on this one....however, I really don't want to begin trading insults with you again.

Kadath · 10-18-2004, 06:53 PM

daswig, I don't propose to argue the AWB with you. First, that's not what this thread is about, and second, I've given up arguing guns on this board.

daswig · 10-18-2004, 07:06 PM

kadath, then what part of the AW ban was good for police officers according to Kerry? That IS on topic...

cthulu23 · 10-18-2004, 07:18 PM

Apparently many police chiefs supported the assault weapon ban. It's understandable that they might be a little sensitive about the issue....

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5946127/

Quote:

National police organizations such as the International Association of Chiefs of Police, the International Brotherhood of Police Officers and the Fraternal Order of Police all support the renewal of the ban. President Bush has said he would sign such a bill if Congress passed it.

Willravel · 10-18-2004, 07:19 PM

You mean like bayonets are on topic? In addition to guns with bayonets, guns with folding stocks are not allowed.
What should be remembered is that of all violent crimes reported in America, one fourth involve guns, and these assault guns account for only one percent of all gun crimes committed (that's 1/4 of 1%). That's general knowledge. Kerry was just trying to get support from joe American who thinks that all guns are the devil.

daswig · 10-18-2004, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cthulu23

Apparently many police chiefs supported the assault weapon ban. It's understandable that they might be a little sensitive about the issue....

police chiefs are politicians, not cops. And who did the FOP endorse again?

daswig · 10-18-2004, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willravel

In addition to guns with bayonets, guns with folding stocks are not allowed.

Folding stocks did nothing to affect the federally mandated OverAll Length (OAL) requirements of a single firearm. Before the AW ban, firearms had to be a certain size (OAL). After the AW ban, "post ban" guns had to be exactly the same size (OAL) that they were before the ban.

scout · 10-19-2004, 03:06 AM

cthulu, your quote isn't even in the link you provided. If it is I sure can't find it after reading the complete 6 paragraphs 4 times. Not that it matters all that much but ........... oh well.

cthulu23 · 10-19-2004, 04:57 AM

It's there, scout...do a search for Fraternal or something.

daswig,

FOP endorsed Bush, which has nothing to do with whether or not they supported the assault weapon ban. Apparently the police see some value in it.

Regardless of all that, no one has backed up the thesis of this thread yet.

themisfit · 10-20-2004, 03:36 PM

I'm married to a cop and he doesn't supoort Kerry. But we know some who do. The "official" support of any police organization means nothing in reference to who the real officers working the streets support. And in police work, as in the rest of the country, it's divided. Cops are people too with varying beliefs and opinions. Just because some union/organizaition's head honcho supports one candidate doesn't mean the police in whole do.

daswig · 10-21-2004, 10:52 PM

cthulu, are you actually familiar with the mechanics of the AW ban? Do you know what the net result of the ban was? It was that prices on "pre-ban" guns went up due to collectability issues, and that the manufacturers merely removed the offending features from the guns. If anything, the 10 years of the AW ban caused a dramatic INCREASE on the amount of firepower available on the street, since it made "assault weapons" into a banned but desireable thing. It's the law of unintended consequences.

Are you familiar with the Serbu BFG-50? It's a single-shot .50 BMG rifle that was recently banned in California. The guy who makes them sold more BFG-50s to californians the day after the ban was signed into law than he sold in the entire previous month to the entire United States.

Prohibition NEVER works. It doesn't matter what is being prohibited....booze, drugs, or guns. Where there's a demand, there WILL be a supply.

Kadath · 10-22-2004, 04:55 AM

daswig:

First of all, welcome back.

Second, please stop trying to argue the merits or failures of the AWB. The police liked it, Kerry said he would have fought to keep it for them. That's the end of it.

10-17-2004, 01:41 AM	#1 (permalink)
scout Psycho	Kerry and Police Support It appears that Kerry doesn't have the widespread support of all the police he currently says or insinuates he has. http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=38194 Just another example of how he will lie about anything to anyone about everything just to get elected. {edit, he isn't the only one that does or says anything for a vote....there are some republicans just as bad ... just not running for president .....} Last edited by scout; 10-17-2004 at 01:46 AM..

10-17-2004, 04:59 AM	#5 (permalink)
tecoyah Illusionary	Add this to the "Pointless Spin" section of the TFP....oh....wait....it seems that is already where it is. __________________ Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

10-18-2004, 04:34 AM	#15 (permalink)
Kadath Muffled Location: Camazotz	scout, I don't see where he said most of the police support him. The only thing I could find that was close is "And most of the law enforcement agencies in America wanted that assault weapons ban. " And that isn't really that close. It's actually possible to want the assault weapons ban without wanting Kerry as President -- look at President Bush. He said he wanted the ban extended. __________________ it's quiet in here

10-18-2004, 05:04 AM	#16 (permalink)
cthulu23 Banned	Kadath is right...there is nothing in that statement that references how many police support him. Last edited by cthulu23; 10-18-2004 at 09:20 AM..

10-18-2004, 01:57 PM	#21 (permalink)
Kadath Muffled Location: Camazotz	"While it's impossible to tell exactly how many police officers support Kerry, the typical layperson listening to these debates {without benefit of the internet and transcriptions} would assume by all the above statements that Kerry had the support of most law enforcement officers. I know I certainly did until I done a little research. " Well, that may be. It is possible to make a fallacious assumption based upon a statement made by a politician. But Kerry never stated he had the support of every police officer. Again, he's saying that the AWB is good for police officers because it means they can worry less about assault weapons used against them, and if he were President when the AWB was to be extended or dumped, he would have worked with them to extend the ban for their benefit. __________________ it's quiet in here

10-17-2004, 02:27 AM	#2 (permalink)
Arroe Insane Location: USA	Yes, over the past few weeks Kerry has been making quite a few misguided presumptions. I especially liked during the last debate when Kerry said Senator McCain would support him as president and how Bush corrected him by reminding Kerry that McCain support's Bush's reelection. I was lucky enough to see the President and Senator McCain speak right after the debate here in Phoenix infront of 45,000 of his supporters and the President even noted there that McCain has campaigned heavily with him the past few weeks.

10-17-2004, 02:35 AM	#4 (permalink)
mrian Upright Location: Tempe	McCain probably supports both of them. I have always thought McCain was a good strong leader and senator for Arizona, but I disslike Bush very much. It suprises me that he has been so supportive of Bush. A couple of my friends got to see bush drive by in his motorcade. And Kerry had a rally at tempe beach park by ASU a couple of my friends went to. Go Foo Fighters and I would rather vote for Grohl over either candidate and Badnarik.

10-17-2004, 01:23 PM	#7 (permalink)
cthulu23 Banned	Scout, If you actually read the story carefully (and it's a vague press release), you can see that the representative for the FOP wanted to make it clear that the FOP was not endorsing Kerry, although other police organizations have. They aren't saying that Kerry lied but that they wanted to demonstrate that not all police orgs are endorsing him. Lie about anything to anyone about everything? Not quite, although that sounds like a good Rush line.

10-17-2004, 06:08 PM	#8 (permalink)
scout Psycho	ctulu if you read it carefully you will see the FOP claims itself and I quote ... "the largest organization representing America's Federal, State and local law enforcement officers, I believe it's important to point out yet again that we do not support his candidacy for President," Canterbury said. "And to be perfectly frank, the groups which do support him actually share the same membership rolls and, taken together, probably comprise less than one-quarter of our nation's police officers." So in other words a very small minority. I never stated Kerry lied, merely he overstated and insinuated he had more support than in fact he did in regards to exactly how many police officers supported his campaign and how many echoed his support for the now defunct AWB.

10-17-2004, 07:24 PM	#10 (permalink)
cthulu23 Banned	So let's hear a quote that backs that claim up...he does have endorsements from some police organizations. You may be right, but you aren't giving me enough information to make that determination.

10-17-2004, 09:59 PM	#13 (permalink)
daswig Banned Location: BFE	Host, you need some cheese to go with that?

10-18-2004, 10:15 AM	#17 (permalink)
daswig Banned Location: BFE	I know several hundred active cops, and have yet to meet the first one that actually supports Kerry. Of course, I live in the South...

10-18-2004, 10:22 AM	#18 (permalink)
The_Dunedan Junkie	Scout: 1: Terrorists would pay $600+ for a SEMI-auto AK clone why, again? They can get a REAL AK-47 for less than $20 in the areas where they operate. 2: If someone's dealing drugs ( illegally ) do you REALLY think they're going to go through the legal channels to buy an AK? Because that's the presumption here: that a law will stop a criminal.

10-18-2004, 12:03 PM	#20 (permalink)
scout Psycho	Kadath, his last line was " I'd have had every law enforcement officer in the country visit those congressmen. We'd have won what Bill Clinton won." While it's impossible to tell exactly how many police officers support Kerry, the typical layperson listening to these debates {without benefit of the internet and transcriptions} would assume by all the above statements that Kerry had the support of most law enforcement officers. I know I certainly did until I done a little research. The DuneDan Yes I agree, the AWB actually done little to curb crime. Very few crimes was ever committed by assualt weapons to begin with. Effectively it removed guns from law-abiding citizens moreso than criminals.

10-18-2004, 02:03 PM	#22 (permalink)
daswig Banned Location: BFE	kadath, how many police officers were bayonetted between 1994 and 2004? Because that's what the AW ban banned...bayonets.

10-18-2004, 06:53 PM	#24 (permalink)
Kadath Muffled Location: Camazotz	daswig, I don't propose to argue the AWB with you. First, that's not what this thread is about, and second, I've given up arguing guns on this board. __________________ it's quiet in here

10-18-2004, 07:06 PM	#25 (permalink)
daswig Banned Location: BFE	kadath, then what part of the AW ban was good for police officers according to Kerry? That IS on topic...

10-18-2004, 07:19 PM	#27 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	You mean like bayonets are on topic? In addition to guns with bayonets, guns with folding stocks are not allowed. What should be remembered is that of all violent crimes reported in America, one fourth involve guns, and these assault guns account for only one percent of all gun crimes committed (that's 1/4 of 1%). That's general knowledge. Kerry was just trying to get support from joe American who thinks that all guns are the devil.

10-19-2004, 03:06 AM	#30 (permalink)
scout Psycho	cthulu, your quote isn't even in the link you provided. If it is I sure can't find it after reading the complete 6 paragraphs 4 times. Not that it matters all that much but ........... oh well.

10-19-2004, 04:57 AM	#31 (permalink)
cthulu23 Banned	It's there, scout...do a search for Fraternal or something. daswig, FOP endorsed Bush, which has nothing to do with whether or not they supported the assault weapon ban. Apparently the police see some value in it. Regardless of all that, no one has backed up the thesis of this thread yet.

10-20-2004, 03:36 PM	#32 (permalink)
themisfit Tilted Location: none of your fuckin' business	I'm married to a cop and he doesn't supoort Kerry. But we know some who do. The "official" support of any police organization means nothing in reference to who the real officers working the streets support. And in police work, as in the rest of the country, it's divided. Cops are people too with varying beliefs and opinions. Just because some union/organizaition's head honcho supports one candidate doesn't mean the police in whole do. __________________ At length my cry was known: Therein lay my release. I met the wolf alone And was devoured in peace. ESVM

10-21-2004, 10:52 PM	#33 (permalink)
daswig Banned Location: BFE	cthulu, are you actually familiar with the mechanics of the AW ban? Do you know what the net result of the ban was? It was that prices on "pre-ban" guns went up due to collectability issues, and that the manufacturers merely removed the offending features from the guns. If anything, the 10 years of the AW ban caused a dramatic INCREASE on the amount of firepower available on the street, since it made "assault weapons" into a banned but desireable thing. It's the law of unintended consequences. Are you familiar with the Serbu BFG-50? It's a single-shot .50 BMG rifle that was recently banned in California. The guy who makes them sold more BFG-50s to californians the day after the ban was signed into law than he sold in the entire previous month to the entire United States. Prohibition NEVER works. It doesn't matter what is being prohibited....booze, drugs, or guns. Where there's a demand, there WILL be a supply.

10-22-2004, 04:55 AM	#34 (permalink)
Kadath Muffled Location: Camazotz	daswig: First of all, welcome back. Second, please stop trying to argue the merits or failures of the AWB. The police liked it, Kerry said he would have fought to keep it for them. That's the end of it. __________________ it's quiet in here Last edited by Kadath; 10-22-2004 at 04:57 AM..