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Old 10-15-2004, 02:46 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Will the "Seperation of Church and State" premise, survive if Bush is elected?

More and more, I fear for the future of my country, since it appears to
now be under the political control of religious fundamentalists; not much
different in their level of close minded, anti-scientific, bigotted, fundamentalist zealotry than what was observed in the Islamic revolution
that took place in Iran in 1979. Science, tolerance, and common sense are
concepts that are losing ground in this battle.
Quote:
<p>Press Release</p>
<p>For Immediate Release: Wednesday, October 13, 2004<br>
Contact: Chas Offutt (202) 265-7337</p>

<p align="center"> <font color="#000000"><strong>PARK SERVICE STICKS
WITH BIBLICAL EXPLANATION FOR GRAND CANYON<br>
Promised Legal Review on Creationist Book Is Shelved</strong></font></p>
<p> Washington, DC — The Bush Administration has decided that
it will stand by its approval for a book claiming the Grand Canyon
was created by Noah’s flood rather than by geologic forces,
according to internal documents released today by Public Employees
for Environmental Responsibility (PEER).</p>
<p>Despite telling members of Congress and the public that the legality
and appropriateness of the National Park Service offering a creationist
book for sale at Grand Canyon museums and bookstores was “under
review at the national level by several offices,” no such review
took place, according to materials obtained by PEER under the Freedom
of Information Act. Instead, the real agency position was expressed
by NPS spokesperson Elaine Sevy as quoted in the Baptist Press News:</p>

<blockquote>
<p>“Now that the book has become quite popular, we don’t
want to remove it.”</p>
</blockquote>
<p>In August of 2003, Grand Canyon National Park Superintendent Joe
Alston attempted to block the sale of Grand Canyon: A Different View,
by Tom Vail, a book explaining how the park’s central feature
developed on a biblical rather than an evolutionary time scale. NPS
Headquarters, however, intervened and overruled Alston. To quiet the
resulting furor, NPS Chief of Communications David Barna told reporters
that there would be a high-level policy review, distributing talking
points stating: “We hope to have a final decision in February
[2004].” In fact, the promised review never occurred –</p>
<ul>

<li> In late February, Barna crafted a draft letter to concerned members
of Congress stating: “We hope to have a final decision on
the book in March 2004.” That draft was rewritten in June
and finally sent out to Congressional representatives with no completion
date for the review at all;</li>
<li> NPS Headquarters did not respond to a January 25th memo from
its own top geologists charging that sale of the book violated agency
policies and undercut its scientific education programs;</li>
<li> The Park Service ignored a letter of protest signed by the presidents
of seven scientific societies on December 16, 2003.</li>
</ul>

<p>“Promoting creationism in our national parks is just as wrong
as promoting it in our public schools,” stated PEER Executive
Director Jeff Ruch, “If the Bush Administration is using public
resources for pandering to Christian fundamentalists, it should at
least have the decency to tell the truth about it.”</p>
<p>The creationist book is not the only religious controversy at Grand
Canyon National Park. One week prior to the approved sale of Grand
Canyon: A Different View, NPS Deputy Director Donald Murphy ordered
that bronze plaques bearing Psalm verses be returned and reinstalled
at canyon overlooks. Superintendent Alston had removed the bronze
plaques on legal advice from Interior Department solicitors. Murphy
also wrote a letter of apology to the plaques’ sponsors, the
Evangelical Sisterhood of Mary. PEER has collected other instances
of what it calls the Bush Administration’s “Faith-Based
Parks” agenda.</p> <a href="http://www.peer.org/press/524.html">http://www.peer.org/press/524.html</a>
Background on this can be viewed here:
<a href="http://www.freeinquiry.com/skeptic/badgeology/grandcanyon/controversy.htm">http://www.freeinquiry.com/skeptic/badgeology/grandcanyon/controversy.htm</a>
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Old 10-15-2004, 03:37 PM   #2 (permalink)
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There's a similar problem that is not often discussed in this context as regards the Democratic machine and Afro-American churches.

If the influence and pandering to fundamentalism bothers you as regards the right, then it would be fair-minded of you to be equally distressed at the relationship of Black churches to the Democratic Party and vice versa.
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Old 10-15-2004, 03:44 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I'm a big separation of church and state freak but isn't this just about a book? There are other books available for purchase there that express the scientific beliefs about how it was created, right?

If this was about the tours having to say the the Flood created the Canyon I'd be upset but the fact is that all types will visit there. There should be books available for purchase that represent all viewpoints on how it was created.

I do have a problem with the plaques. That's just wrong.
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Old 10-15-2004, 03:50 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ARTelevision
There's a similar problem that is not often discussed in this context as regards the Democratic machine and Afro-American churches.

If the influence and pandering to fundamentalism bothers you as regards the right, then it would be fair-minded of you to be equally distressed at the relationship of Black churches to the Democratic Party and vice versa.
It would not be fair-minded to be equally distressed with the Black church/Democrat issue. There is a major quantitative difference between evangelical religious power and black church religious power. It would be hypocritical to completely dismiss the latter and attack the former, but assuredly there is no one-to-one comparison here.
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Old 10-15-2004, 04:02 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I have no interest in arguing the point regarding what is or is not quantitative.

In my opinion, it needs to be mentioned because it is not generally regarded or even mentioned as a problem.

Thanks.
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Old 10-15-2004, 04:07 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I was just correcting your misstatement that the problems should be viewed equally.
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Old 10-15-2004, 04:08 PM   #7 (permalink)
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In case anyone else is wondering, quantitive means: of or relating to, or expressed as a quantity, measure, or amount.
I don't consider this particular situation to have a direct connetcion with the church/state question. Bush has plenty of other church/state problems to deal with.
Ex: Let's say I am a politican. I love reading the Koran. The fact that I read it does not mean that it effects my work directly. Oprah has a book club, so why can't little Bush?
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Old 10-15-2004, 04:13 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ARTelevision
There's a similar problem that is not often discussed in this context as regards the Democratic machine and Afro-American churches.

If the influence and pandering to fundamentalism bothers you as regards the right, then it would be fair-minded of you to be equally distressed at the relationship of Black churches to the Democratic Party and vice versa.
Art, usually you are spot on and reply to the question. I don't think the poster said anyhting about the Right or the Left.

The erosion of common sense and ignorance of science are coming from both sides. True, in the example of the Grand Canyon book and plaques, the party in power (the GOP) was guilty. But this is not an issue of Right vs. Left. It is an issue of dangerous fundamentalism vs. the rest of us.
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Old 10-15-2004, 04:22 PM   #9 (permalink)
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The original post used the commonplace examples that typically point to right-wing religious influence on American Politics. That is exactly what I was responding to.

As for what is and what is not a misstatement. It is an irrelevant way to approach a matter of opinion. I said that fairness requires one to be equally distressed about both Democratic and Republican pandering to religion and religious influence. That is an opinion.
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Old 10-15-2004, 04:25 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ARTelevision
As for what is and what is not a misstatement. It is an irrelevant way to approach a matter of opinion. I said that fairness requires one to be equally distressed about both Democratic and Republican pandering to religion and religious influence. That is an opinion.
OK. Then I consider it an invalid opinion.

If x is equal to 100 and y is equal to 50, it is my opinion that x and y are not equivalent and should not be treated as so. You are free to disagree.
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Old 10-15-2004, 04:27 PM   #11 (permalink)
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If Bush is elected, then Rhenquist retires and gets replaced with a fellow who thinks like Scalia. Not a big change.

On the other hand, it is not inconceivable that Stevens also retires or kicks that storied bucket, and also gets replaced with another of Cheney's duck hunting buddies. That would be a big change. Right now the court is 5 to 4 in favor of strict separation of church and state. Another 4 year of Bush and it may well break the other way, and we would end up with a 4 to 2 to 3 split between crypto-theocrats, those soft on the idea, and a couple of very outraged, very old, very wise people with soaring blood pressure wondering where the country they served got off to and who are the strange people they work with, and why does their left arm hurt so bad.
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Old 10-15-2004, 04:29 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Opie and ART, you make my heart smile.
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Old 10-15-2004, 05:07 PM   #13 (permalink)
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....and practically speaking, the implications of this book continuing to be sold at a "national" park...will result in NOTHING ,I repeat NOTHING, more than than your average liberal screaming "close minded, anti-scientific, bigotted, fundamentalist zealotry" right wing nuts....

If your really worried about the implications of this particular event,then you are the lefts equivalent of the right wing nut jobs we've all heard way too much about.

…..and remind me again which party likes to exploit the “politics of fear.” While this strategy may play a part on both sides on the politicians level, this is a prime example of where it’s influences really lay.
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Old 10-16-2004, 01:38 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Wow, this is crazy. I pay really close attention to political stories on the web and elsewhere, but I haven't seen this yet. It seems almost like an Onion article: "President Bush today issued public backing for a book claiming that the Grand Canyon was created by the Noah's Ark flood, that Yellowstone National Park was Eden, and that monkeys are flying out of my ass. In a related story, up is down, black is white, and we invaded Iraq because they were trying to undermine the sanctions that had succesfully disarmed Saddam in order to reconstitute weapons of mass destruction related program activities that may, in some future date, theoritically create WMDs."

Good lord. This is utterly unacceptable. Pseudo-science books with the intention of "proving" religious history have no place being sold in bookstores in national parks.
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Old 10-16-2004, 06:40 AM   #15 (permalink)
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I still don't see a problem of one book covering it from a biblical perspective out of I'm sure tons covering the science. I think that going out of one's way to block a biblical perspective is not separation of church and state as its fighting against biblical views, separation should be a nuetral stance. If someone rights Crack in the Mother Earth: The Wiccan Tale of the Grand Canyon then by all means throw that up there too. The peopel buying the book are going to be Christian or people what would be curious about alternate views anyway. This book really isn't ministry or preaching. It really wasn't harming anyone.

The same with the 10 commandments in the court room. What is so offensive about 10 commonly held values. I mean if there was a few proverbs from the orient up there are they going to castrate the judge for the mystical practices surrounding the finding of zen which they come from. You have to draw the line somewhere between separation and insanity.
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Old 10-16-2004, 07:09 AM   #16 (permalink)
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While I have a HUGE problem with this book and it's viewpoint (it might as well say the Grand Canyon was created by Voodoo, as far as I'm concerned), the question asked is moot as far as I can see.

The oft quoted "Separation of church and state" is stated as a principle, but is not in the constitution. The constitution speaks against the establishment of a state religion, not removing all religion from public life.

Plaques? I would be happier if passages from many religions in addition to the Judeo-Christian one were used as opposed to removing them.
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Old 10-16-2004, 07:54 AM   #17 (permalink)
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I have no problem with a Christain in the White House, as there have been many. I do have a problem with a Christain making legislation based on his/her personal understanding of an undefined and vague 2000 year old instruction manual.
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Old 10-16-2004, 09:59 AM   #18 (permalink)
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I don't have a problem with a religious book being sold at a government park, AS LONG AS they have one that explains the scientific theories also. To have one and not the other is cause to call censorship in either direction.

It amazes me that the 2 sides cannot see this.

As for biblical verse placques posted. I would feel that if the government does it then it is a break from Church/State. However, it is not uncommon for the government to lease park land to help with costs and if those parks are leased and paid for privately and stated as such then they have every right to be there.

Now, the argument can ensue that the government can lease the same space to a scientific approach placque or one from a different religious group next to the biblical placques and I feel the government should accomodate. If not next to, then open the leased land for legal bid, and let it be done that way.

As for whether Church and state seperation can continue under Bush, I think it will in as far as there won't be a mandatory church to go to. However, I don't think that many sciences or arts will be funded and I believe schools will be forced to teach more religious friendly materials. I also see a new censorship of porn and "decency" coming.
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Old 10-17-2004, 04:17 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matthew330
....and practically speaking, the implications of this book continuing to be sold at a "national" park...will result in NOTHING ,I repeat NOTHING, more than than your average liberal screaming "close minded, anti-scientific, bigotted, fundamentalist zealotry" right wing nuts....

If your really worried about the implications of this particular event,then you are the lefts equivalent of the right wing nut jobs we've all heard way too much about.

…..and remind me again which party likes to exploit the “politics of fear.” While this strategy may play a part on both sides on the politicians level, this is a prime example of where it’s influences really lay.
I totally disagree....from what I've experienced by observing this administration, and, more ominously; from what I read in the things that my research brings to light....we may be on our way to a "faith based" catastrophe, as a nation:
Quote:
<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/17/magazine/17BUSH.html?oref=login&oref=login&pagewanted=print&position=">http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/17/magazine/17BUSH.html?oref=login&oref=login&pagewanted=print&position=</a>.................Each administration, over the course of a term, is steadily shaped by its president, by his character, personality and priorities. It is a process that unfolds on many levels. There are, of course, a chief executive's policies, which are executed by a staff and attending bureaucracies. But a few months along, officials, top to bottom, will also start to adopt the boss's phraseology, his presumptions, his rhythms. If a president fishes, people buy poles; if he expresses displeasure, aides get busy finding evidence to support the judgment. A staff channels the leader.

A cluster of particularly vivid qualities was shaping George W. Bush's White House through the summer of 2001: a disdain for contemplation or deliberation, an embrace of decisiveness, a retreat from empiricism, a sometimes bullying impatience with doubters and even friendly questioners. Already Bush was saying, Have faith in me and my decisions, and you'll be rewarded. All through the White House, people were channeling the boss. He didn't second-guess himself; why should they?

Considering the trials that were soon to arrive, it is easy to overlook what a difficult time this must have been for George W. Bush. For nearly three decades, he had sat in classrooms, and then at mahogany tables in corporate suites, with little to contribute. Then, as governor of Texas, he was graced with a pliable enough bipartisan Legislature, and the Legislature is where the real work in that state's governance gets done. The Texas Legislature's tension of opposites offered the structure of point and counterpoint, which Bush could navigate effectively with his strong, improvisational skills.

But the mahogany tables were now in the Situation Room and in the large conference room adjacent to the Oval Office. He guided a ruling party. Every issue that entered that rarefied sanctum required a complex decision, demanding focus, thoroughness and analytical potency.

For the president, as Biden said, to be acutely aware of his weaknesses -- and to have to worry about revealing uncertainty or need or confusion, even to senior officials -- must have presented an untenable bind. By summer's end that first year, Vice President Dick Cheney had stopped talking in meetings he attended with Bush. They would talk privately, or at their weekly lunch. The president was spending a lot of time outside the White House, often at the ranch, in the presence of only the most trustworthy confidants. The circle around Bush is the tightest around any president in the modern era, and ''it's both exclusive and exclusionary,'' Christopher DeMuth, president of the American Enterprise Institute, the neoconservative policy group, told me. ''It's a too tightly managed decision-making process. When they make decisions, a very small number of people are in the room, and it has a certain effect of constricting the range of alternatives being offered.''


On Sept. 11, 2001, the country watched intently to see if and how Bush would lead. After a couple of days in which he seemed shaky and uncertain, he emerged, and the moment he began to lead -- standing on the World Trade Center's rubble with a bullhorn -- for much of America, any lingering doubts about his abilities vanished. No one could afford doubt, not then. They wanted action, and George W. Bush was ready, having never felt the reasonable hesitations that slowed more deliberative men, and many presidents, including his father.

Within a few days of the attacks, Bush decided on the invasion of Afghanistan and was barking orders. His speech to the joint session of Congress on Sept. 20 will most likely be the greatest of his presidency. He prayed for God's help. And many Americans, of all faiths, prayed with him -- or for him. It was simple and nondenominational: a prayer that he'd be up to this moment, so that he -- and, by extension, we as a country -- would triumph in that dark hour.

This is where the faith-based presidency truly takes shape. Faith, which for months had been coloring the decision-making process and a host of political tactics -- think of his address to the nation on stem-cell research -- now began to guide events. It was the most natural ascension: George W. Bush turning to faith in his darkest moment and discovering a wellspring of power and confidence.

Of course, the mandates of sound, sober analysis didn't vanish. They never do. Ask any entrepreneur with a blazing idea when, a few years along, the first debt payments start coming due. Or the C.E.O., certain that a high stock price affirms his sweeping vision, until that neglected, flagging division cripples the company. There's a startled look -- how'd that happen? In this case, the challenge of mobilizing the various agencies of the United States government and making certain that agreed-upon goals become demonstrable outcomes grew exponentially.

Looking back at the months directly following 9/11, virtually every leading military analyst seems to believe that rather than using Afghan proxies, we should have used more American troops, deployed more quickly, to pursue Osama bin Laden in the mountains of Tora Bora. Many have also been critical of the president's handling of Saudi Arabia, home to 15 of the 19 hijackers; despite Bush's setting goals in the so-called ''financial war on terror,'' the Saudis failed to cooperate with American officials in hunting for the financial sources of terror. Still, the nation wanted bold action and was delighted to get it. Bush's approval rating approached 90 percent. Meanwhile, the executive's balance between analysis and resolution, between contemplation and action, was being tipped by the pull of righteous faith.

It was during a press conference on Sept. 16, in response to a question about homeland security efforts infringing on civil rights, that Bush first used the telltale word ''crusade'' in public. ''This is a new kind of -- a new kind of evil,'' he said. ''And we understand. And the American people are beginning to understand. This crusade, this war on terrorism is going to take a while.''

Muslims around the world were incensed. Two days later, Ari Fleischer tried to perform damage control. ''I think what the president was saying was -- had no intended consequences for anybody, Muslim or otherwise, other than to say that this is a broad cause that he is calling on America and the nations around the world to join.'' As to ''any connotations that would upset any of our partners, or anybody else in the world, the president would regret if anything like that was conveyed.''

A few months later, on Feb. 1, 2002, Jim Wallis of the Sojourners stood in the Roosevelt Room for the introduction of Jim Towey as head of the president's faith-based and community initiative. John DiIulio, the original head, had left the job feeling that the initiative was not about ''compassionate conservatism,'' as originally promised, but rather a political giveaway to the Christian right, a way to consolidate and energize that part of the base.

Moments after the ceremony, Bush saw Wallis. He bounded over and grabbed the cheeks of his face, one in each hand, and squeezed. ''Jim, how ya doin', how ya doin'!'' he exclaimed. Wallis was taken aback. Bush excitedly said that his massage therapist had given him Wallis's book, ''Faith Works.'' His joy at seeing Wallis, as Wallis and others remember it, was palpable -- a president, wrestling with faith and its role at a time of peril, seeing that rare bird: an independent counselor. Wallis recalls telling Bush he was doing fine, '''but in the State of the Union address a few days before, you said that unless we devote all our energies, our focus, our resources on this war on terrorism, we're going to lose.' I said, 'Mr. President, if we don't devote our energy, our focus and our time on also overcoming global poverty and desperation, we will lose not only the war on poverty, but we'll lose the war on terrorism.'''

Bush replied that that was why America needed the leadership of Wallis and other members of the clergy.

''No, Mr. President,'' Wallis says he told Bush, ''We need your leadership on this question, and all of us will then commit to support you. Unless we drain the swamp of injustice in which the mosquitoes of terrorism breed, we'll never defeat the threat of terrorism.''

Bush looked quizzically at the minister, Wallis recalls. They never spoke again after that.

''When I was first with Bush in Austin, what I saw was a self-help Methodist, very open, seeking,'' Wallis says now. ''What I started to see at this point was the man that would emerge over the next year -- a messianic American Calvinist. He doesn't want to hear from anyone who doubts him.''

But with a country crying out for intrepid leadership, does a president have time to entertain doubters? In a speech in Alaska two weeks later, Bush again referred to the war on terror as a ''crusade.''

In the summer of 2002, after I had written an article in Esquire that the White House didn't like about Bush's former communications director, Karen Hughes, I had a meeting with a senior adviser to Bush. He expressed the White House's displeasure, and then he told me something that at the time I didn't fully comprehend -- but which I now believe gets to the very heart of the Bush presidency.

The aide said that guys like me were ''in what we call the reality-based community,'' which he defined as people who ''believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality.'' I nodded and murmured something about enlightenment principles and empiricism. He cut me off. ''That's not the way the world really works anymore,'' he continued. ''We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality -- judiciously, as you will -- we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.''

Who besides guys like me are part of the reality-based community? Many of the other elected officials in Washington, it would seem. A group of Democratic and Republican members of Congress were called in to discuss Iraq sometime before the October 2002 vote authorizing Bush to move forward. A Republican senator recently told Time Magazine that the president walked in and said: ''Look, I want your vote. I'm not going to debate it with you.'' When one of the senators began to ask a question, Bush snapped, ''Look, I'm not going to debate it with you.''

The 9/11 commission did not directly address the question of whether Bush exerted influence over the intelligence community about the existence of weapons of mass destruction. That question will be investigated after the election, but if no tangible evidence of undue pressure is found, few officials or alumni of the administration whom I spoke to are likely to be surprised. ''If you operate in a certain way -- by saying this is how I want to justify what I've already decided to do, and I don't care how you pull it off -- you guarantee that you'll get faulty, one-sided information,'' Paul O'Neill, who was asked to resign his post of treasury secretary in December 2002, said when we had dinner a few weeks ago. ''You don't have to issue an edict, or twist arms, or be overt.''

In a way, the president got what he wanted: a National Intelligence Estimate on W.M.D. that creatively marshaled a few thin facts, and then Colin Powell putting his credibility on the line at the United Nations in a show of faith. That was enough for George W. Bush to press forward and invade Iraq. As he told his quasi-memoirist, Bob Woodward, in ''Plan of Attack'': ''Going into this period, I was praying for strength to do the Lord's will. . . . I'm surely not going to justify the war based upon God. Understand that. Nevertheless, in my case, I pray to be as good a messenger of his will as possible.''

Machiavelli's oft-cited line about the adequacy of the perception of power prompts a question. Is the appearance of confidence as important as its possession? Can confidence -- true confidence -- be willed? Or must it be earned?

George W. Bush, clearly, is one of history's great confidence men. That is not meant in the huckster's sense, though many critics claim that on the war in Iraq, the economy and a few other matters he has engaged in some manner of bait-and-switch. No, I mean it in the sense that he's a believer in the power of confidence. At a time when constituents are uneasy and enemies are probing for weaknesses, he clearly feels that unflinching confidence has an almost mystical power. It can all but create reality.

Whether you can run the world on faith, it's clear you can run one hell of a campaign on it.

George W. Bush and his team have constructed a high-performance electoral engine. The soul of this new machine is the support of millions of likely voters, who judge his worth based on intangibles -- character, certainty, fortitude and godliness -- rather than on what he says or does. The deeper the darkness, the brighter this filament of faith glows, a faith in the president and the just God who affirms him.

The leader of the free world is clearly comfortable with this calculus and artfully encourages it. In the series of televised, carefully choreographed ''Ask President Bush'' events with supporters around the country, sessions filled with prayers and blessings, one questioner recently summed up the feelings of so many Christian conservatives, the core of the Bush army. ''I've voted Republican from the very first time I could vote,'' said Gary Walby, a retired jeweler from Destin, Fla., as he stood before the president in a crowded college gym. ''And I also want to say this is the very first time that I have felt that God was in the White House.'' Bush simply said ''thank you'' as a wave of raucous applause rose from the assembled.

Every few months, a report surfaces of the president using strikingly Messianic language, only to be dismissed by the White House. Three months ago, for instance, in a private meeting with Amish farmers in Lancaster County, Pa., Bush was reported to have said, ''I trust God speaks through me.'' In this ongoing game of winks and nods, a White House spokesman denied the president had specifically spoken those words, but noted that ''his faith helps him in his service to people.''

A recent Gallup Poll noted that 42 percent of Americans identify themselves as evangelical or ''born again.'' While this group leans Republican, it includes black urban churches and is far from monolithic. But Bush clearly draws his most ardent supporters and tireless workers from this group, many from a healthy subset of approximately four million evangelicals who didn't vote in 2000 -- potential new arrivals to the voting booth who could tip a close election or push a tight contest toward a rout.

This signaling system -- forceful, national, varied, yet clean of the president's specific fingerprint -- carries enormous weight. Lincoln Chafee, the moderate Republican senator from Rhode Island, has broken with the president precisely over concerns about the nature of Bush's certainty. ''This issue,'' he says, of Bush's ''announcing that 'I carry the word of God' is the key to the election. The president wants to signal to the base with that message, but in the swing states he does not.''

Come to the hustings on Labor Day and meet the base. In 2004, you know a candidate by his base, and the Bush campaign is harnessing the might of churches, with hordes of voters registering through church-sponsored programs. Following the news of Bush on his national tour in the week after the Republican convention, you could sense how a faith-based president campaigns: on a surf of prayer and righteous rage.

Righteous rage -- that's what Hardy Billington felt when he heard about same-sex marriage possibly being made legal in Massachusetts. ''It made me upset and disgusted, things going on in Massachusetts,'' the 52-year-old from Poplar Bluff, Mo., told me. ''I prayed, then I got to work.'' Billington spent $830 in early July to put up a billboard on the edge of town. It read: ''I Support President Bush and the Men and Women Fighting for Our Country. We Invite President Bush to Visit Poplar Bluff.'' Soon Billington and his friend David Hahn, a fundamentalist preacher, started a petition drive. They gathered 10,000 signatures. That fact eventually reached the White House scheduling office.

By late afternoon on a cloudy Labor Day, with a crowd of more than 20,000 assembled in a public park, Billington stepped to the podium. ''The largest group I ever talked to I think was seven people, and I'm not much of a talker,'' Billington, a shy man with three kids and a couple of dozen rental properties that he owns, told me several days later. ''I've never been so frightened.''

But Billington said he ''looked to God'' and said what was in his heart. ''The United States is the greatest country in the world,'' he told the rally. ''President Bush is the greatest president I have ever known. I love my president. I love my country. And more important, I love Jesus Christ.''

The crowd went wild, and they went wild again when the president finally arrived and gave his stump speech. There were Bush's periodic stumbles and gaffes, but for the followers of the faith-based president, that was just fine. They got it -- and ''it'' was the faith.

And for those who don't get it? That was explained to me in late 2002 by Mark McKinnon, a longtime senior media adviser to Bush, who now runs his own consulting firm and helps the president. He started by challenging me. ''You think he's an idiot, don't you?'' I said, no, I didn't. ''No, you do, all of you do, up and down the West Coast, the East Coast, a few blocks in southern Manhattan called Wall Street. Let me clue you in. We don't care. You see, you're outnumbered 2 to 1 by folks in the big, wide middle of America, busy working people who don't read The New York Times or Washington Post or The L.A. Times. And you know what they like? They like the way he walks and the way he points, the way he exudes confidence. They have faith in him. And when you attack him for his malaprops, his jumbled syntax, it's good for us. Because you know what those folks don't like? They don't like you!'' In this instance, the final ''you,'' of course, meant the entire reality-based community.

The bond between Bush and his base is a bond of mutual support. He supports them with his actions, doing his level best to stand firm on wedge issues like abortion and same-sex marriage while he identifies evil in the world, at home and abroad. They respond with fierce faith. The power of this transaction is something that people, especially those who are religious, tend to connect to their own lives. If you have faith in someone, that person is filled like a vessel. Your faith is the wind beneath his or her wings. That person may well rise to the occasion and surprise you: I had faith in you, and my faith was rewarded. Or, I know you've been struggling, and I need to pray harder.

Bush's speech that day in Poplar Bluff finished with a mythic appeal: ''For all Americans, these years in our history will always stand apart,'' he said. ''You know, there are quiet times in the life of a nation when little is expected of its leaders. This isn't one of those times. This is a time that needs -- when we need firm resolve and clear vision and a deep faith in the values that make us a great nation.''

The life of the nation and the life of Bush effortlessly merge -- his fortitude, even in the face of doubters, is that of the nation; his ordinariness, like theirs, is heroic; his resolve, to whatever end, will turn the wheel of history.

Remember, this is consent, informed by the heart and by the spirit. In the end, Bush doesn't have to say he's ordained by God. After a day of speeches by Hardy Billington and others, it goes without saying.

''To me, I just believe God controls everything, and God uses the president to keep evil down, to see the darkness and protect this nation,'' Billington told me, voicing an idea shared by millions of Bush supporters. ''Other people will not protect us. God gives people choices to make. God gave us this president to be the man to protect the nation at this time.''

But when the moment came in the V.I.P. tent to shake Bush's hand, Billington remembered being reserved. '''I really thank God that you're the president' was all I told him.'' Bush, he recalled, said, ''Thank you.''

''He knew what I meant,'' Billington said. ''I believe he's an instrument of God, but I have to be careful about what I say, you know, in public.''

Is there anyone in America who feels that John Kerry is an instrument of God?


<b>"I'm going to be real positive, while I keep my foot on John Kerry's throat,'' George W. Bush said last month at a confidential luncheon a block away from the White House with a hundred or so of his most ardent, longtime supporters, the so-called R.N.C. Regents. This was a high-rolling crowd -- at one time or another, they had all given large contributions to Bush or the Republican National Committee. Bush had known many of them for years, and a number of them had visited him at the ranch. It was a long way from Poplar Bluff.

The Bush these supporters heard was a triumphal Bush, actively beginning to plan his second term. It is a second term, should it come to pass, that will alter American life in many ways, if predictions that Bush voiced at the luncheon come true.

He said emphatically that he expects the Republicans will gain seats to expand their control of the House and the Senate. According to notes provided to me, and according to several guests at the lunch who agreed to speak about what they heard, he said that ''Osama bin Laden would like to overthrow the Saudis . . .

then we're in trouble. Because they have a weapon. They have the oil.'' He said that there will be an opportunity to appoint a Supreme Court justice shortly after his inauguration, and perhaps three more high-court vacancies during his second term.

''Won't that be amazing?'' said Peter Stent, a rancher and conservationist who attended the luncheon. ''Can you imagine? Four appointments!''

After his remarks, Bush opened it up for questions, and someone asked what he's going to do about energy policy with worldwide oil reserves predicted to peak.

Bush said: ''I'm going to push nuclear energy, drilling in Alaska and clean coal. Some nuclear-fusion technologies are interesting.'' He mentions energy from ''processing corn.''

''I'm going to bring all this up in the debate, and I'm going to push it,'' he said, and then tried out a line. ''Do you realize that ANWR [the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge] is the size of South Carolina, and where we want to drill is the size of the Columbia airport?''

The questions came from many directions -- respectful, but clearly reality-based. About the deficits, he said he'd ''spend whatever it takes to protect our kids in Iraq,'' that ''homeland security cost more than I originally thought.''

In response to a question, he talked about diversity, saying that ''hands down,'' he has the most diverse senior staff in terms of both gender and race. He recalled a meeting with Chancellor Gerhard Schroder of Germany. ''You know, I'm sitting there with Schroder one day with Colin and Condi. And I'm thinking: What's Schroder thinking?! He's sitting here with two blacks and one's a woman.''

But as the hour passed, Bush kept coming back to the thing most on his mind: his second term.

''I'm going to come out strong after my swearing in,'' Bush said, ''with fundamental tax reform, tort reform, privatizing of Social Security.'' The victories he expects in November, he said, will give us ''two years, at least, until the next midterm. We have to move quickly, because after that I'll be quacking like a duck.''

Joseph Gildenhorn, a top contributor who attended the luncheon and has been invited to visit Bush at his ranch, said later: ''I've never seen the president so ebullient. He was so confident. He feels so strongly he will win.'' Yet one part of Bush's 60-odd-minute free-form riff gave Gildenhorn -- a board member of the American Israel Public Affairs Committee and a former ambassador to Switzerland -- a moment's pause. The president, listing priorities for his second term, placed near the top of his agenda the expansion of federal support for faith-based institutions. The president talked at length about giving the initiative the full measure of his devotion and said that questions about separation of church and state were not an issue.</b>

Talk of the faith-based initiative, Gildenhorn said, makes him ''a little uneasy.'' Many conservative evangelicals ''feel they have a direct line from God,'' he said, and feel Bush is divinely chosen.

''I think he's religious, I think he's a born-again, I don't think, though, that he feels that he's been ordained by God to serve the country.'' Gildenhorn paused, then said, ''But you know, I really haven't discussed it with him.''

A regent I spoke to later and who asked not to be identified told me: ''I'm happy he's certain of victory and that he's ready to burst forth into his second term, but it all makes me a little nervous. There are a lot of big things that he's planning to do domestically, and who knows what countries we might invade or what might happen in Iraq. But when it gets complex, he seems to turn to prayer or God rather than digging in and thinking things through. What's that line? -- the devil's in the details. If you don't go after that devil, he'll come after you.''


Bush grew into one of history's most forceful leaders, his admirers will attest, by replacing hesitation and reasonable doubt with faith and clarity. Many more will surely tap this high-voltage connection of fervent faith and bold action. In politics, the saying goes, anything that works must be repeated until it is replaced by something better. The horizon seems clear of competitors.

Can the unfinished American experiment in self-governance -- sputtering on the watery fuel of illusion and assertion -- deal with something as nuanced as the subtleties of one man's faith? What, after all, is the nature of the particular conversation the president feels he has with God -- a colloquy upon which the world now precariously turns?

That very issue is what Jim Wallis wishes he could sit and talk about with George W. Bush. That's impossible now, he says. He is no longer invited to the White House.

''Faith can cut in so many ways,'' he said. ''If you're penitent and not triumphal, it can move us to repentance and accountability and help us reach for something higher than ourselves. That can be a powerful thing, a thing that moves us beyond politics as usual, like Martin Luther King did. But when it's designed to certify our righteousness -- that can be a dangerous thing. Then it pushes self-criticism aside. There's no reflection.

''Where people often get lost is on this very point,'' he said after a moment of thought. ''Real faith, you see, leads us to deeper reflection and not -- not ever -- to the thing we as humans so very much want.''

And what is that?

''Easy certainty.''
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