Locobot

like kryptonite taking hold...respect.....for...tucker carlson.......withering...

saut

You can see it here (for those of you without a torrent client)

http://www.ifilm.com/filmdetail?ifilmid=2652831

Arroe

Ah, the reason you came to this conclusion is because viewers of the Daily Show are ussually more interested in political events and happenings anyways so there is a lurking variable there. Since TDS is focussed around politics, the viewers probably already know some about what's going on. Viewers of CNN might be looking to see how the market is doing or what the weather is like, and might be less interested in politics. Taking this into consideration, we can see how these statistics are slightly unfair.

I normally like Jon Stewarts show, I must admit I like his sidekick guys more than him though, especially Steven Colbert, but Jon Stewart acted like an ass on Crossfire. I don't think he even really made a point. After watching that I just thought less of Jon Stewart.

SecretMethod70

nope......

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Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

tricks

I feel the same way about Rush Limbaugh. I thought he was a comedian in the begining.



Stewart was seriously biting his tongue after the final commercial. Find someone in the audience who can shed some light.

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People Are Stupid. People can be made to believe any lie, either
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fordluvr

You can find it on iFILM. (www.ifilm.com)

boatin

Well, i'm sorry I wasn't more articulate. I have no problem with threads going where threads go. I usually find it fascinating.

I didn't say the comments in this thread were far off topic - but they aren't on his topic either. Nothing says they have to be. It's just... interesting.

What I find sad, however, is that the main thrust of Stewarts argument was ignored on the show. I found what I thought (and still think) is an apt parallel happening on this thread also. His point (or what I saw as his point) about that show not being a debate is a good one.

We don't have debate anywhere that I can see. Certainly the 4 official debates weren't. Everyone is responsible, including me. There is this comedian trying to point that out, and no one seems to hear him because he's a comedian.

That truth can't be recognized, regardless of source, and discussed is what I find specifically sad. Just my opinion and observation. Not asking anyone to agree. Just frustrated enough that I had to write it down.

exploreyourself

Right. To put a finer point on it: Stewart isn't upset that Crossfire isn't a debate per se, but that it claims to be one when it is not. He's upset that some people will watch shows like this and feel that they have been informed when in reality a lot of words were used to say almost nothing at all. This is why he is very forthright about admitting that his show is not a news show and that people who rely on it as such are making a mistake.

Somewhere in the clip he says something along the lines of 'I don't doubt that people on each side of the aisle believe what they do, but the arguements that they use to try to convince the rest of us aren't honest'.

That's the heart of it, IMO. This is why Pres. Bush can state at the last debate something like 'I never said that I don't worry about Osama' when he said exactly that at a news conference earlier this year. The arguement is not honest. If the arguement is not honest then the position that it is purporting to advance is suspect. If you can't follow somebody's line of reasoning, then it is reasonable to think that their position is merely an expediency.

I too found it sad that the hosts tried to avoid the questioning of their responsibility that Stewart was trying to raise and wanted to talk about almost anything else: the O'riely sexual allegations and Stewart's book, for example. One host even devolved to calling Stewart Kerry's "Butt boy". This is what passes for debate in this country now: deflection, obfuscation and ad-hominem attacks.

The fact of the matter is that news is big business these days. I don't have anything against big business per se but a quality news show like Lehrer's News Hour gets terrible ratings. There's a reason it's on PBS and not a major network - there's no money to be made in it.

This leads into the broader cultural trend that people (at least in the US - I don't know about other places) only want to hear what they already believe. They want external validation of their pre-existing beliefs - not a balanced and nuanced look at complex issues that are much more grey than either black or white. Thus the existance of Fox news and now, in response, Air America.

I commend Stewart for forgoing the opportunity to pimp his book and tackle an important issue. I suspect that, ultimately, very little will come of it - but I hope I'm wrong. As Stewart said: the media isn't holding politicians' feet to the fire to be accountable for what they say and do. But who would be the first to start? There's no incentive for them to do so.

And therein lies the real tragedy: that our media needs an incentive to protect the interests of the public. A strong and vigilant fourth estate is essential for a flourishing democracy. But until we, as citizens (not as voters, or consumers, etc) demand a change we will continue to get exactly what we are asking for.

HeadyIncognito

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Kadath

Wow. That was the most incoherent cartoon ever. What was its point, exactly?

I like that Stewart called the guys to carpet for feeding into the media distortion of politics that has lead to our current state. I think it's a shame nothing will change.

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HeadyIncognito

I used to think that Jerkcity was completley incoherent as well, although still occasionally funny.

Now I realize that it's probably all (that is, other than the stuff about oral sex and being gay) just a bunch of obscure references that I didn't get! I guess this comic shows the magnitude of the whole Jon Stewart thing.

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Even Hitler had a girlfriend...

Ustwo

I liked the daily show until it became a left wing show, which was about the time of the 2000 election.

He uses the same stuff that other pundits like Al Franken use when they are called out on a lie or distortion, and claim its just entertainment.

Typical, but any show that has Hilary Clinton on it, is anything but non-political. She only goes where she knows she has a positive audience. Maybe he has become more balanced lately, I haven't watched the daily show in a couple of years, but I doubt it. If anything he seems to be working on being Franken Jr. based on his appearances.

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Kadath

I don't mean to harp on the comic, but I still don't get it. The author took a couple of lines from the show, put them in word balloons over oddly drawn characters, and...what? What does it show? What "magnitude?"

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Willravel

Ustwo, I agree in theory, but not in practice. How many promenant political figures have appeared on the Ali G show? How about Conan O'Brian, Jay Leno, or David Letterman? All of these shows tell jokes about politics that can sometimes be funny because they are true. That does not make them responsible for delivering non-partisan news. Their main goal is to make people watch because tthey can laugh. Crossfire draws in viewers because it makes people think. While this is a generalization, it is still basically true.

gibingus

to get the humor of the daily show, the viewer needs to have a more than basic awareness of the events lampooned, which explains why the viewership is better informed than of latenight talk shows. if you don't follow current events and watch the news, the show isn't that funny.

the show's purpose is not expressly to lampoon politics, it is to lampoon the media. since it is an election year, and candidates use the media so effectively, the content is naturally slanted.

what made politically incorrect interesting as a current events opinion talk show, was that the pannel would include politicos and pundits and also pop culture icons... some of whom surprised the professional talking heads with their grasp of situations and insights. anyone who watched the original show or watches real time knows that bill has his own opinions and isn't afraid to mention them, but he has added something to the political satire and comedy arena that he was in as a standup. that tradition follows mark twain, will rogers, mark russell and his wacky piano shtick... and so on.

but when the humor hits too close to home, people get rankled, right? ask tucker carlson or ask the 24 hour news nets... msnbc is now regularly losing to the daily show in the 11-11:30 time slot, it's neck and neck with cnn, and rapidly gaining on fox.

the inside the industry buzz is that the daily show writers include many alums of the onion. which makes a lot of sense, if you follow both products. they came over to rework the show when craig kilborne left and jon stewart came in. even if you like or don't like what they have to say, they are doing a damn good job.

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cthulu23

This may have something to do with Bush coming into power....comedians lampoon whoever is in power. Before Bush they crucified Clinton (and the Repubs) nightly. Their takes on politics that I happen to care about can piss me off but I always realize that getting angry is not the appropriate reaction to a comedian. If it's making me angry then it's probably pretty effective humor.

ARTelevision

gingibus, just a personal response to this.

"if you don't follow current events and watch the news, the show isn't that funny."

I follow current events and I watch the news very closely. I do not find Stewart or his show funny.

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OpieCunningham

OK. Doesn't change the reality that if you don't follow current events and watch the news, the show is not going to be funny.

boatin

When the shows were lampooning Clinton, I saw the humor and thought they were funny. A little painful sometimes, but funny none the less. I can laugh at 'my' guys.

Amusing how the reverse isn't much true. Humor poked at Bush rarely seems funny to supporters. Is this just my biased take? What do people think?

Ustwo

I'm not saying he has to be non-partisan, but I am saying he is political and hiding behind the 'entertainment' label doesn't make him unccountable or not lampoonable.

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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

Kadath

I forget the logical term for what you just did. However If A Then B does not translate to If B Then A. He didn't say that anyone who doesn't like the show is ignorant of current events, just explained why if you don't follow current events you wouldn't have a shot at enjoying the show.

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ARTelevision

I responded to a statement that can be interpreted in two different ways.

I responded to it by stating that it does not apply to me as stated.

My response was a direct response to the statement as worded. I have no idea how the statement was intended.

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create evolution

seep

If the show seems partisan it's because Bush makes for a fairly easy target.

I mean, imagine if Dan Quayle had become president...

Clinton tended to get more sympathetic laughs. I mean, come on, that was just a funny situation.

lukethebandgeek

I just watched a video, and dang, Stewart was pretty powerful.

However, when he pleaded to the guys when they went on a comercial break, it seemed almost pathetic of him.

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So I like Chrono... So what?

skier

I'm calling you on this irate. Jon Stewart is not contributing to the destruction of political discussion by hosting a political satire show. His role in the media is well defined by his own actions as well as the content of his show, not to mention it's placement and network. He stays within his boundaries of political cynic. To say he is a hypocrite for encouraging positive change in the validity of reputable news sources is absurd. In fact, he is doing so well in his job of examining both sides of the election with a crictical eye that people are beginning to take him seriously. Jon Stewart is doing a better job than reputable news shows at keeping perspective on political process, and not merely regurgitating (very) minor issues. Our "entertainment culture" pushes for more news, more information all the time. By reporting everything, the important issues become obscured (suspected kerry war record flaws? or that BIG issue with him calling his security a son of a bitch on the ski hill). These points should not hold more importance than positions on economic policy or personal freedoms.

Now, for Stewart to ignore the influence he holds with his show would be plain stupid. He wants Kerry to win, and it shows. The fact that he does satire on both candidates merely shows his position is not set in stone. Stewart also addresses the problems he attempted to mention on Crossfire on his own show. He does it in a lighthearted way, just like the rest of the issues he brings up. All in all I see a very intelligent man hosting this satire show.

That's why he went on crossfire. I don't believe he was trying to change the minds of the hosts, but to help make people watching aware that a lot of crossfire is simply theatre (I haven't seen any arguement against this). People that believed they were being informed on two perpectives of an issue have simply been confirming their own beliefs. Just the fact there has been so much discussion on this goes to show there is a problem with the media, and disscussion will be one of the best ways to implement change.

John Stewart is not denying his role in the media. He has gained influence from his role and is using it to the best of his abilities to effect change in what he sees as a flawed system.

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gibingus

clearing up my meaning above for art and others on that tangent: stewart has said in interviews (charlie rose, larry king, etc) whilst plugging the new book that they assume a high level of knowledge in current events and the nature of broadcast news in their viewers when they write the show. they don't expect people who don't watch the news to get the tounge in cheek lampooning of the style of broadcasting, or the content in the satire. the writers, who have also been on a few talk shows, have echoed this. this trend is also played out in the nieslen demographic research recently used by comedy central's PR department when they responded to bill o'reilly's calling the daily show viewers 'stoned slackers' by showing that they were in fact more educated and more aware of current events than the viewers of the o'reilly factor.

honestly, it makes sense, if you watch 24 hour news networks, you are more likely to be misinformed. the endless regurgitation of spin disguised as analysis drowns out what little fact based reporting there is. clearly the whole media has made a huge mistake in representing john kerry to the public, when just 90 minutes of air time talking issues in the first debate cause such a dramatic spike in his public perception ratings. instead of focusing on the issues, the 24hournets are focusing on the spin and the rest of the media suffers from the pack race and trickle down. that's all stewart was trying to say, and it is clear that many out there on both sides of the spin agree based upon how certain demographics are dropping out of those products and going to alternative information sources.

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if everyone is thinking alike, chances are no one is thinking.

iceburn

Jon: How old are you?

Tucker: 35

Jon: And you wear a bow tie.

Millions of people throughout the world have wanted to set-spike that one home to Tucker's face.

Regardless of whatever spin we want to make of this, let's have a moment of silence to honor Jon for that wonderful moment.

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... and shit.

irateplatypus

skier,

first off, i wouldn't use the point that stewart pokes fun at both sides to prove that he has an open mind or isn't married to a certain agenda. let's not forget that he has a vested interest in telling as many jokes as he can. the more people laugh, the more people watch his show and buy his books. more laughs = more dollars. stewart is many things, but a capitalist chiefly among them.

i think we're arguing two separate points here. your response was based on the premise that stewart was running a political satire show plain-and-simple and should be afforded the accompaning degrees of seriousness and accountability.

i will sidestep your premise by countering that political satire no longer exists in the way that it once did. we agree that The Daily Show is intended to be primarily satirical entertainment, and we've both argued that Crossfire and its ilk are also entertainment oriented programs. So, if the whole gamut from a comedian's sniping to allegedly serious political discussion is acknowledged to be entertainment... from what vantage point do we defend one show as being purely satirical if it is endemic to the way we view all televised political discourse?

Whether you, I, or Jon Stewart likes it or not... there are a lot of people who get their news and base their votes off his show. If it's all entertainment, surely there must be some point where Stewart stops hiding behind his format and starts taking responsibility for his show's impact if he sees fit to criticize other entertainers for not being as positive an influence as they could be.

So again, I think it is innaccurate to characterize stewart as an outside satirist commenting on another industry. He has made himself a part of the same machine, just on the extreme buffoonery side of things. we've lost the separation between sober political news and entertainment. with this new paradigm comes new responsibility from our brand-new entertainers and a renewed awareness among the voting public.

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If you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance for survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.

~ Winston Churchill

bodymassage3

I know this has kindof gone in circles, but from what I got from watching this, your last 2 paragraphs are *exactly* what he's talking about. His show was created to criticize and be funny. The fact that it can and/or is held up to the same standards as news programs that 1) are not on "Comedy Central" and 2) are advertised as, and *supposed* to be serious news programs, or that people even watch it to get anything other than a laugh, is a serious problem.

alto92

uhh...your statement has almost nothing to do with his. read it again...he's not saying that if you do follow current events and watch the news, it IS funny....just that if you don't, it's not funny.

just cuz the guy has a different take than you doesn't mean you have to strip his statement of its context and misinterpret it...

/tired of all the spinning....

and if anyone wants to begin to be informed about everyday, mainstream news, come discover what millions of americans already know about -- NPR -- not saying there's no spin, because it's there, but you really have to look for it. and when you find it, you'll find you're more keen to the other networks' attempts at "news"

irateplatypus

bodymassage3,

i believe the difference lies in that skier seems to be proposing that stewart is on the outside as a satirist looking in on the issue, while i believe stewart to be on the inside pointing fingers at everyone else just like him.

__________________
If you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance for survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.

~ Winston Churchill

cthulu23

Although I doubt that anything that I write will change your mind (does anyone's mind ever get changed by the arguments in this forum?), the Daily Show is most definitely satire and they have a good record of lampooning everyone in power regardless of party.

This thread evokes the whole "athlete/role model" thing, with one crucial difference. No kid dreaming of a career as a journalist is following in the footsteps of Jon Stewart...now, a potential comedian is another story.

alto92

that's because jon stewart is a horrible man, and a hypocrite.

/just wanted to take away the kneejerk anti-stewart reaction to what you posted

it seems to me like a lot of peopl here are more interested in plastering stewart as a hypocrite rather than refuting his point, his reason for going onto crossfire in the first place...

SecretMethod70

KEEP IT CIVIL FOLKS. Don't mock others' opinions, I don't care how strongly you disagree with them....


Anyway, I just wanted to provide a link to Jon Stewart on Fresh Air on NPR. It's an approximately 40 minute interview, and very interesting.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...toryId=4054791

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Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

irateplatypus

i know you were just trying to provoke, but you're exactly right. i, for one, am not arguing with stewart's point in the interview... just that he could benefit from taking his own advice.

__________________
If you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance for survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.

~ Winston Churchill

iceburn

Michael Badnarik looks like a pimp in that shot. That's all I can contribute.

Also, that Stewart is on an intellectual lecture mission with these guest appearances he makes. He was on Charlie Rose, and you can see how passionate he gets talking about the problems with media in the US. He talked about how it would be good to create a show that specifically unspins ... from both sides. I guess his own show is sort of doing that to a degree, but I think he was talking about creating a network that was designed to counter the spin from both sides, aggressively. Whereas, he says what we have now is some networks that are naturally centrist, and thus "liberal" in the eyes of a "with us or against us" administration-influenced status quo, and then on the other side, you have aggressively conservative organizations seeking to explicitly pull the discourse to the right, like fox & whathaveyou.

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... and shit.

SecretMethod70

Stewart talked about his experience on Crossfire on The Daily Show. Hilarious, and well worth watching.

http://www.ifilm.com/filmdetail?ifilmid=2653047

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Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

Kadath

Wow. Thanks, SM. I despaired when I saw the link was ifilm, but i screwed up my courage, and it was well worth it. "Tomorrow I'll go back to being funny and your show will still blow."

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irateplatypus

So, there are two main groupings of media...

the first is in the center but demonized by the right.
the second has a mission to further an agressive right-wing agenda.

i'm pretty sure i know where this is going...
thanks for chiming in jon.

__________________
If you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance for survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.

~ Winston Churchill

alto92

i seem to have been mis-taken. my last post wasn't meant to piss anyone off - just making a point, however sarcasm-laden it was.