Veep Debate thread

[Locobot]

Malpractice insurance rates are correlated to interest rates NOT lawsuit winnings. Insurance companies are basically big investment houses, that's where the problem lays.

[archer2371]

Originally Posted by Locobot

Realistically there is no way we could win a conventional war against Iran by ourselves. Considering the nuclear capabilities of Iran you can pretty much kiss Jerusalem goodbye if we invade Iran.

Actually, we know where all of their nuclear facilities are, hell, you can even bring up most of that information on fas.org so it would be rather easy to strike at the facilities quickly, plus, spotting silos and SCUDs is easy. It's not as hard as you think it is. The DoD even has a plan on file for invading Iran, and it's first operation is striking at the facilities, and seeing where SCUDs and missiles are and taking those out. The next step is establishing beach heads with amphibious landings from the Persian Gulf. Tricky thing is getting tanks and conventionals up on the elevated landscape, a little less harder than Afghanistan though.

Edit: I did laugh at that Poland comment though.

[Mephisto2]

I wish I could see this.

I can't believe I'm so interested in the US election. Wierd.


Mr Mephisto

[Locobot]

Originally Posted by archer2371

Actually, we know where all of their nuclear facilities are, hell, you can even bring up most of that information on fas.org so it would be rather easy to strike at the facilities quickly, plus, spotting silos and SCUDs is easy. It's not as hard as you think it is. The DoD even has a plan on file for invading Iran, and it's first operation is striking at the facilities, and seeing where SCUDs and missiles are and taking those out. The next step is establishing beach heads with amphibious landings from the Persian Gulf. Tricky thing is getting tanks and conventionals up on the elevated landscape, a little less harder than Afghanistan though.

Edit: I did laugh at that Poland comment though.

Sure you can have airstrikes till the cows come home, the problem comes when we send our kids in against veteran religious fanatics in their mountainous home turf. Our kids have been raised on Pokemon and Nintendo, their kids are raised on Allah and Kalashnikov (sp?).

[Rdr4evr]

Extreme generalization on both sides...dont you think?

[JumpinJesus]

I'm glad they have the guts to actually come out and say "flip flop" and I'm glad Edwards is pointing out all of their flip flops as well.

[docbungle]

Originally Posted by Rdr4evr

Extreme generalization on both sides...dont you think?

Yes, absolutely.

Also, now that the flip-flop thing is going both ways they need to drop it

[sprocket]

Originally Posted by Rdr4evr

Extreme generalization on both sides...dont you think?

Yes. Just like the presidentail debate. However, this is a much more intelligible debate than the presidentail debate. Amazing! Two politicians that can speak in sentances!

[nottwood]

Do you think they are picturing us naked?

[JumpinJesus]

She's a lousy moderator.

[cthulu23]

Wow, bad moderation.

[docbungle]

This moderator SUCKS!!

[docbungle]

Overall I thing both candidates carried themselves rather well.

[Locobot]

Cheney's not sure why bipartisan bills haven't been passing!? Maybe if he wasn't telling Senators to "fuck off" on the senate floor...would be a start...

[archer2371]

Originally Posted by Locobot

Sure you can have airstrikes till the cows come home, the problem comes when we send our kids in against veteran religious fanatics in their mountainous home turf. Our kids have been raised on Pokemon and Nintendo, their kids are raised on Allah and Kalashnikov (sp?).

Ah, but you fail to realize the beneficial results of logging an incredible amount of time on SOCOM and SOCOM II.

[JumpinJesus]

Cheney really has no idea why there is not a spirit of bipartisanship in Congress?

Really?

[JumpinJesus]

Edwards: First I want to thank you and the Vice President for being here....
Cheney: Gwen, I want to thank you.....Senator Edwards, go fuck yourself....

[Locobot]

Was Cheney's secret gay sister on the stage afterwards? I'm not sure what she looks like. ??? Might upset the conservative base who demand she be disowned for her sex life.

[filtherton]

Originally Posted by archer2371

Ah, but you fail to realize the beneficial results of logging an incredible amount of time on SOCOM and SOCOM II.

COVER ME!
I'VE GOT POINT!

[Mephisto2]

Is it over?

Who won?




Mr Mephisto

[powerclown]

Really enjoyed this debate. The antithesis of the Presidential Debates. Substance over Style. Both camps did themselves proud. Edwards extremely poised and articulate; Cheney, like Spock - pure logic & pragmatism. In the end, Cheney's experience, authority, cold hard logic and realism won him the debate in my opinion. Very glad to hear both candidate's strong backing of Israel. Here's hoping the remaining Presidential debates will maintain this high standard.

[Esen]

Originally Posted by JumpinJesus

Edwards: First I want to thank you and the Vice President for being here....
Cheney: Gwen, I want to thank you.....Senator Edwards, go fuck yourself....

LOL.
It really did come off that way.
I like how at the end Cheney kept sitting when Edwards shook his hand but gave Gwen the double arm stand up hand shake.

It was awesome.

Cheney really won this.

The thing is will the American people win?
I really wish there was a way to take the best of both parties.

[maximusveritas]

I think Cheney came out strong, while Edwards missed several opportunities to respond to charges, especially about voting "for the war" and the 87 billion vote.

As they moved to domestic issues, however, Edwards clearly found his footing and took over the debate. Near the end, it was all Edwards. Edwards' closing statement was masterful and Cheney was terrible following it.

Overall, I think Edwards won handily, but if people tuned out early, they'll probably see it as a draw.

[JumpinJesus]

Originally Posted by Mr Mephisto

Is it over?

Who won?




Mr Mephisto

It really depends on who you ask. The spin doctors are now hard at work, giving themselves strokes trying to be the first to say that their candidate won.

I think it was close. They both did a good job; they both seemed confident and comfortable, yet Cheney - in his robotic fashion - got in more effective pot shots at Edwards. I'd give the edge to Cheney, but I think it's a slight edge.

Either way, most people don't believe that the vice presidential debates have much effect on the outcome of the election. Though I think more people paid attention to this vice presidential debate than any in recent history.

[Rdr4evr]

According to CBS Edwards won. I think it was 42% Edwards, 29 % Cheney and 29% undecided.

[Mephisto2]

It was important because Kerry won the last debate so convincingly that he clawed back siginificant gains in the polls.

The last debate will be even more interesting.

Either way, despite being a Kerry supporter, I think Bush will win. Oh well...


Mr Mephisto

[Rekna]

ABC said Cheny won but also admitted it oversampled republicans so their poll is worthless

[Mephisto2]

I wonder what Fox says?

ROFL


Mr Mephisto

[Locobot]

Cheney retreated to "so wrong I can't respond" type comments repeatedly, he should be able to answer for his record. I'd give Edwards the win because I liked his positions and he wasn't afraid to mention Kerry. I don't recall Cheney using Bush's name as freely or at all.

[Locobot]

Conservative blogger Andrew Sullivan (someone I respect) is slagging Cheney for not having the answers on cspan2.

[Mojo_PeiPei]

I'll admit I'm for sure biased. I think Cheney handled it, if anything it was a draw, no way Edwards out did Cheney on substance or style. Cheney took a very good route with the old school hawk putting the young spring chicken in his place continuely.

maybe 65- 35 Cheney.

[ubertuber]

I think this was a great debate - lots of substance this time around. Those guys had a million numbers at their fingertips... I do think that it was close, with Edwards stronger (perhaps too polished for his own good?) on style and Cheney ahead on substance. I especially enjoyed the bit where they were after each other on voting records and absences. I don't mind things being personal when they are talking to each other and not letting their lap dogs do the fighting. So, in the end, Cheney by a nose.

[OpieCunningham]

Seemed like a draw to me, overall. I think Cheney came out ahead on the foreign policy, mainly because Edwards didn't push the right things at the right times, not because Cheney had much substance in that area. On the National front, Edwards came out ahead - though he could have gotten more points if he had pointed out the similarities between his and Cheney's opinions on Gay Marriage and how they both differ completely from the Bush/Cheney platform opinion on that issue.

Ultimately, the most telling and, in my mind accurate, statement came from Edwards - pointing out that liberals value hard work and conservatives value wealth. Spot on. Perfect.

The Bush/Cheney campaign needed more than a draw to recover from the Bush failing from last week.

[host]

Polls on news channels indicate Edwards won.
Before cnn.com pulled their poll of their site a few moments ago,
(11:40 pm edt) Edwards led 120,000 to Cheney's 27,000

Even on Bush broadcasting, inc. www.foxnews.com, Edwards led
Cheney as the debate winner 33,000 votes to 30,000 for Cheney.

<a href="http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3096434/#survey">msnbc.com is 69% Edwards 31% Cheney</a>

[Konichiwaneko]

all I can say is this. Many will make their side look like the winner no matter the outcome.

Most are looking for what's good about their candidate, what's bad about their rival, and the rest is details lost in the wind.

From what I've read already, it looks like we know who are republicans and who are democrats here.

[theusername]

I thought it was a tie, but apparently looks like most people picked Edwards, i think it has more to do with likeability in the end.

[mattevil]

I thought it was really close but I give edwards the edge for not coming off as cold as cheney.

[pan6467]

I think Cheney lost because of his demeanor. He seemed very unapproachable, stiff and just his way or go fuck yourself.

Edwards was homey and likeable talked to people not at them.

Like I said it was Archie Bunker and Sheriff Andy Taylor debating.

I'm sure the GOP has some sort of whammy to hit Kerry with to stop the hemoraging.... maybe a new 527 group to run something new into the ground.

[trickyy]

i haven't heard from either of these guys lately.

i think it's cool how cheney talks like my grandpa. tally-ban and whatnot. but the guy knows his stuff, although i thought including iraqi deaths to counter edwards' 90% figure was pushing it. i liked his simple thank-you response to edwards comments on gay marriage and how he claimed to have never seen edwards in the senate before.

edwards did miss opportunities, sometimes opting to make a broad attack on the administration rather than address the particular issue. it seemed like kerry spoke with more clarity on the international issues. still he was no pushover and held his own. i stopped watching after the first hour, so i may have missed his stronger performance. none of the domestic issues mentioned (aside from the huge deficit) really matter to me, though.

so i'll call it a draw as well.

senators have a tough time becoming president. only 2 (Kennedy and Harding) have jumped directly from the senate to the chief executive, at least partially due to the fact that opponents can pick at voting histories.

[mml]

If I had to pick a winner, I would most likely select Cheney. I say that because even though many of his statements and "facts" are inacurate and seriously debatable, he presented them in a matter of fact and clear manner that makes them seem like the truth. Edwards was a bit too excitable and ready to jump into the fray, making him appear inexperienced. Overall, I would say that Republicans generally thought Cheney won and vice versus. I do, however, think that neither side is particularly hurt or helped by this debate. What I find interesting is that CBS, MSNBC, CNN and FOX all have flash polls that say Edwards won. The closest was FOX, showing 54% for Edwards (this will change), but many polls show him well ahead of Cheney. It will be interesting to see the results in a day or two. Many, even many within the Democratic party, underestimate the connection Edwards makes with people. It may be that the polls are showing that while "experts" and policy wonks don't see him as completely credible, the general public does.