Someone explain to me voter registration - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

SecretMethod70 · 09-27-2004, 09:18 AM

My philosopher roommate and I were talking last night as I read some things for one of my political science classes and I began to wonder about something. I read about the fact that one state has no voter registration at all and 2 others have same-day voter registration. He, being of the philosophical mindset and, I believe, a little less than pragmatic, declared that the state with no voter registration had it right because nation-states are dead anyway. Clearly, I can see the pragmatic argument against this. However, what I can't see a pragmatic argument agaisnt is why not have all states with same day voter registration? What is it that keeps states from adopting this? I can see no benefit to either party if it's easier for EVERYONE to register. So, can some please explain to me why there are not more states with same-day registration?

smooth · 09-27-2004, 09:41 AM

I think that I see a benefit to BOTH parties if voters remain apathetic and unregistered.

guy44 · 09-27-2004, 09:57 AM

Voter registration in the United States is primarily designed to maintain the two-party system. The only thing the Democrats and Republicans really have in common is the desire to limit any other party from gaining significant power (there has to be a minimum of two parties in any democratic system). Because Dems and Republicans control the legislatures and governorships in every state, they have set the rules for registering so that you have to do so in advance. This severely harms third parties, as most people if forced to register in advance will have to decide early whether to vote for the main party candidates with the most name recognition and the best ability to get out their message.

Third parties have taken hold in the state where same-day registration is law, Minnesota, largely because undecideds can make up their mind at the very last minute and choose to vote for someone other than a major party candidate. This explains Jesse Ventura's success, for example.

SecretMethod70 · 09-27-2004, 11:21 AM

I know the argument regarding third parties, but in this case I just don't see it. And, trust me, I like to look out for things that will help third parties

Yes, more undecided people can vote third party with same day registration, but they can also vote democrat or republican. Really, I don't think undecided voters really have any more of an inclination towards third parties than toward the two major parties.

Of course, whether it TRULY helps third parties doesn't matter I suppose. If the two major parties think it will hurt them, then they'll prevent it from happening.

We REALLY need a constitutional amendment taking control of elections away from the people who receive votes

Ustwo · 09-27-2004, 12:01 PM

The best reason for it is to PRETEND the states check to see if you are indeed a citizen and can vote. Having to register ahead of time gives them the power to do so.

Otherwise show up with a bunch of fake ID's and vote away all over the place.

Now the problem isn't with voter registration but the problem is with lack of checking. 4000 NY residents voted in Florida in 2000 AND in NY. There saddly is no system to check this.

SecretMethod70 · 09-27-2004, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

4000 NY residents voted in Florida in 2000 AND in NY.

Documentation please.

Ustwo · 09-27-2004, 12:19 PM

Quote:

By RUSS BUETTNER
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER

With debate over the 2000 election still raging, thousands of people illegally register in both New York City and Florida, which could swing an election.
Some 46,000 New Yorkers are registered to vote in both the city and Florida, a shocking finding that exposes both states to potential abuses that could alter the outcome of elections, a Daily News investigation shows.

Registering in two places is illegal in both states, but the massive snowbird scandal goes undetected because election officials don't check rolls across state lines.

The finding is even more stunning given the pivotal role Florida played in the 2000 presidential election, when a margin there of 537 votes tipped a victory to George W. Bush.

Computer records analyzed by The News don't allow for an exact count of how many people vote in both places, because millions of names are regularly purged between elections.

But The News found that between 400 and 1,000 registered voters have voted twice in at least one election, a federal offense punishable by up to five years in prison and a $10,000 fine.

One was Norman Siegel, 84, who is registered as a Republican in both Pinellas Park, Fla., and Briarwood, Queens. Siegel has voted twice in seven elections, including the last four presidential races, records show.

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/sto...p-192807c.html

Only referance I can quickly find. Can't recall the original was a long time ago.

guy44 · 09-27-2004, 04:06 PM

SecretMethod70 - yes, it is true that people can register on election day and then vote democrat or republican. But the advantage for third parties is that those who were set to vote that way can change their minds, and that the third parties can try and run a diffucult but successful get out the vote campaign. The danger isn't really that great - the Minnesota Republicans and Democrats still win the vast majorities of seats - but occasionally, something can go wrong. When Ventura won, neither the Dem nor Republican candidates were well liked or ran good campaigns. This drove down turnout. But Ventura ran a great campaign, rallied the support of the people through grassroots measures, and was able to convince a lot of people to either vote for him instead of the other guys or to decide at the last minute to vote, and to vote for him.

That really is why registration rules are set up how they are most places.

09-27-2004, 09:18 AM	#1 (permalink)
SecretMethod70 Human Administrator Location: Chicago	Someone explain to me voter registration My philosopher roommate and I were talking last night as I read some things for one of my political science classes and I began to wonder about something. I read about the fact that one state has no voter registration at all and 2 others have same-day voter registration. He, being of the philosophical mindset and, I believe, a little less than pragmatic, declared that the state with no voter registration had it right because nation-states are dead anyway. Clearly, I can see the pragmatic argument against this. However, what I can't see a pragmatic argument agaisnt is why not have all states with same day voter registration? What is it that keeps states from adopting this? I can see no benefit to either party if it's easier for EVERYONE to register. So, can some please explain to me why there are not more states with same-day registration? __________________ Le temps détruit tout "Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

09-27-2004, 09:41 AM	#2 (permalink)
smooth Junkie Location: Right here	I think that I see a benefit to BOTH parties if voters remain apathetic and unregistered. __________________ "The theory of a free press is that truth will emerge from free discussion, not that it will be presented perfectly and instantly in any one account." -- Walter Lippmann "You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists." -- Abbie Hoffman

09-27-2004, 09:57 AM	#3 (permalink)
guy44 Somnabulist Location: corner of No and Where	Voter registration in the United States is primarily designed to maintain the two-party system. The only thing the Democrats and Republicans really have in common is the desire to limit any other party from gaining significant power (there has to be a minimum of two parties in any democratic system). Because Dems and Republicans control the legislatures and governorships in every state, they have set the rules for registering so that you have to do so in advance. This severely harms third parties, as most people if forced to register in advance will have to decide early whether to vote for the main party candidates with the most name recognition and the best ability to get out their message. Third parties have taken hold in the state where same-day registration is law, Minnesota, largely because undecideds can make up their mind at the very last minute and choose to vote for someone other than a major party candidate. This explains Jesse Ventura's success, for example. __________________ "You have reached Ritual Sacrifice. For goats press one, or say 'goats.'"

09-27-2004, 11:21 AM	#4 (permalink)
SecretMethod70 Human Administrator Location: Chicago	I know the argument regarding third parties, but in this case I just don't see it. And, trust me, I like to look out for things that will help third parties Yes, more undecided people can vote third party with same day registration, but they can also vote democrat or republican. Really, I don't think undecided voters really have any more of an inclination towards third parties than toward the two major parties. Of course, whether it TRULY helps third parties doesn't matter I suppose. If the two major parties think it will hurt them, then they'll prevent it from happening. We REALLY need a constitutional amendment taking control of elections away from the people who receive votes __________________ Le temps détruit tout "Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

09-27-2004, 12:01 PM	#5 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	The best reason for it is to PRETEND the states check to see if you are indeed a citizen and can vote. Having to register ahead of time gives them the power to do so. Otherwise show up with a bunch of fake ID's and vote away all over the place. Now the problem isn't with voter registration but the problem is with lack of checking. 4000 NY residents voted in Florida in 2000 AND in NY. There saddly is no system to check this. __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

09-27-2004, 04:06 PM	#8 (permalink)
guy44 Somnabulist Location: corner of No and Where	SecretMethod70 - yes, it is true that people can register on election day and then vote democrat or republican. But the advantage for third parties is that those who were set to vote that way can change their minds, and that the third parties can try and run a diffucult but successful get out the vote campaign. The danger isn't really that great - the Minnesota Republicans and Democrats still win the vast majorities of seats - but occasionally, something can go wrong. When Ventura won, neither the Dem nor Republican candidates were well liked or ran good campaigns. This drove down turnout. But Ventura ran a great campaign, rallied the support of the people through grassroots measures, and was able to convince a lot of people to either vote for him instead of the other guys or to decide at the last minute to vote, and to vote for him. That really is why registration rules are set up how they are most places. __________________ "You have reached Ritual Sacrifice. For goats press one, or say 'goats.'"