Whispered in Russia: Democracy Is Finished - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

The Phenomenon · 09-19-2004, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Whispered in Russia: Democracy Is Finished
Sun Sep 19, 7:55 AM ET
By Kim Murphy Times Staff Writer

MOSCOW — In a sunny garden outside the Kremlin, not far from the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier, workers quietly hammered into place 10 squat black letters to commemorate one of the bloodiest battles of World War II: Stalingrad.

Until Friday, the memorial bore the name the city has had since 1961 — Volgograd — reflecting modern Russia's reluctance to honor a Soviet dictator famed and feared for a legacy of repression. President Vladimir V. Putin had long resisted pleas by war veterans to correct the historical record, saying it "could trigger suspicion that we are returning to the times of Stalinism."

Then, without fanfare, the 10 new letters appeared on the wall, and below them, a bright wreath of autumn flowers. Coming just days after Putin announced one of the most sweeping consolidations of presidential power since the fall of communism, the move evoked far more than the memory of war.

"It is symbolic — another step toward the restoration of the Soviet Union," said Lyudmila Alexeyeva, a former Soviet dissident and chairwoman of the Moscow Helsinki Group, a human rights organization.

As a chilly early autumn takes hold in Russia, there is a palpable sense of unease.

On the streets, people live in dread of the next terrorist attack, and in law enforcement circles, authorities flinch from the demonstrated inability of Russia's famed security services to protect the population. In the last few weeks, more than 400 people have been killed in bloodshed that has included a suicide bombing near a subway station, nearly simultaneous airline bombings and a hostage siege at a provincial school.

Opponents worry that Putin's response has had almost nothing to do with terrorism, and everything to do with expanding the already formidable power of the government.

Putin responded to the school tragedy by saying that the nation was "weak — and the weak get beaten," and by taking steps "to ensure the unity of state power." On Sept. 13, he announced a plan to eliminate the general election of regional governors and of independent seats in parliament, essentially removing the last real checks on his personal dominion over the largest nation on Earth.

As a result of these measures and others put into place over the last four years, the Kremlin now controls an absolute majority in parliament, all major television stations, the Russian gas giant Gazprom (which reportedly is positioning itself to acquire the private oil company Yukos), the country's corrupt judicial system and a massive state security apparatus.

"Putin is now past the point where his regime can be removed peacefully by democratic means. There is no way for democratic transition," said Vladimir Kara-Murza of the pro-democracy Committee 2008 organization. "There's no independent media, there's no parliament to speak of, there are no real parliamentary elections and now with the decision about the regional governors, there are no elections at all."

In an office at the parliament building Friday, one official broke from Russian into English and lowered his voice to barely a whisper, nodding his head toward the wall, as if it might be listening.

"Democracy is finished in this country," he said. "It is over. It ended on the 13th of September."

Asked whether his caution and pessimism were not extreme, he shook his head firmly. "Many have already been given very severe and hard instructions," he said. "Not to comment. Not to criticize. And real threats. All of us are in a state of shock. We are in the middle of 1937."

Notes of concern have been raised by Putin's onetime mentor, the reclusive Boris N. Yeltsin, and by former Soviet President Mikhail S. Gorbachev, both cautioning about the need to preserve democratic freedoms.

"The general impression is that everything will now rest on the president's shoulders. First of all, this is too great a burden for even the most superhuman politician," Gorbachev told the newspaper Novaya Gazeta. "It is vital for the people themselves to participate in, oversee and receive information about the activities of the authorities. If their intention is to solve everything without the involvement of the people — that is a delusion."

Analysts said the move to appoint regional governors, with ratification by local legislatures, reflects concern over the growing militancy of some of Russia's far-flung regions. Oil-rich areas have grumbled loudly in the last year over Kremlin moves to substantially increase Moscow's share of oil profits; in July, 10 governors in the Russian Far East signed an unprecedented letter of opposition to Putin's plan to replace relatively generous Soviet-era in-kind benefits with meager cash payments.

In the wake of the president's Sept. 13 announcement, the Russian information agency, RIA Novosti, convened a panel of political analysts to help make Putin's case. They depicted Russia as a nation at war with terrorists, most linked to the southern republic of Chechnya (news - web sites), where Russia has battled with separatist rebels for most of the last 10 years.

"The main goal of the terrorists is to rock the state structure and to destabilize. So the retaliation must be to prevent them from doing this by … strengthening the backbone and vertebrae of power," said Sergei Markov, a prominent political analyst with close ties to the Kremlin.

That the Russian leader has no intention of softening his often-quoted determination to "wipe out" separatist Chechen rebels "in the outhouse" was reaffirmed Friday.

"We must under no circumstances give in to the idea that by making concessions to criminals, we can gain anything, or hope that they will leave us in peace — this will not happen," Putin declared.

Not long after his remarks, a regional amnesty commission recommended a pardon for a Russian officer, Col. Yuri Budanov, convicted in 2003 of kidnapping and murdering a Chechen woman — a case widely seen as a referendum on Russian human rights abuses in Chechnya. Budanov, whose case must now be reviewed by Putin, had been sentenced to 10 years in prison.

"It is all the more symbolic that Budanov is pardoned now, immediately after Beslan," said Anna Politkovskaya, who covers Chechnya for Novaya Gazeta. "It is like telling those who may be concerned, 'Watch out, guys like Budanov are out, and they're rolling their sleeves up.' "

Putin has announced plans for stepped-up anti-terrorism efforts in the North Caucasus, but there has been almost universal agreement that law enforcement will remain an ineffective opponent as long as corruption remains endemic.

Suicide bombers who boarded the two airliners that exploded Aug. 24, killing all 90 aboard, were detained by airport police but allowed to board the planes after paying bribes — one of as little as $34 — to an airline employee, prosecutors said Thursday.

"The reason we are seeing this kind of terrorism on such a large scale is very simple: We created conditions for the security services and the law enforcement bodies in which they simply cannot be effective in performing their functions," said lawmaker Gennady Gudkov, a former officer of the FSB, the main successor agency to the KGB.

A widespread exodus of experienced officers during the 1990s, when salaries and prestige in the law enforcement structures plunged, left Russian law enforcement with inexperienced officers and few or no intelligence networks, Gudkov said.

"After the professionals quit the system, the people who came to replace them had an intellect and world outlook that did not allow them to perform these duties. These people were coming into the service with one idea — that they could be making money [by taking bribes]," he said. "Please answer this question: Can a system like this effectively counter terrorism, when a terrorist can travel quite freely on Russian roads simply by bribing a traffic policeman?"

A senior Interior Ministry officer, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said the terrorist attacks have left the upper ranks of Russian law enforcement "literally paralyzed and in panic."

Backing Gudkov's assertions, the officer said his agency was left with no network of informants or on-the-ground intelligence assets when experienced officers left during the 1990s, and the shortfall still has not been resolved, leaving the police now "in an information vacuum."

"There is no intelligence information at all, and even if there was, the people at the service would not know how to go about analyzing it," he said. "So what you can expect from the 'stepped-up security' promised by Putin will be essentially more mopping-up raids at markets, dormitories and the places where we always check…. And all these security measures will not have any real effect."

Putin himself has managed over the years to avoid blame for even the government's most unpopular policies — but that may not be the case for much longer. A poll by the Public Opinion Foundation in August found that the president's support for the first time slipped below the 50% mark, and that he would attract only 49% of the vote if new elections were held now.

Chess champion Garry Kasparov, now heading Committee 2008, told Echo of Moscow radio that the public has become disillusioned with the idea that a strong state can cure all the nation's ills. "It's power that has dragged us into this horror, and power that dragged us into this war, and all along this power had nothing but promises, preening with its own force….

"But this power is bankrupted now. And it's not just bankruptcy — we can say that this power has become a threat to everyone in this country…. And in order to move forward, we must at least begin to diagnose our own illness."

The situation there is getting worse and worse.

First of all, the country is in a war, that is being called terrorism by their government, AND now the same government is positioning themselves so that they cannot be ousted in any way, other than military.

I wonder what will become of this... The return of communism, or atleast dictatorship to Russia? Is the USSR back in full swing?

Ustwo · 09-19-2004, 10:59 PM

Yes this worries me too. It all really relies on Putin. I don't know enough about the specifics to have more of a comment.

The Phenomenon · 09-19-2004, 11:22 PM

Putin is getting scarier by the day.

hannukah harry · 09-19-2004, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

Yes this worries me too. It all really relies on Putin. I don't know enough about the specifics to have more of a comment.

wonders never cease...

smooth · 09-19-2004, 11:49 PM

Well, Bush looked into his soul when he first took office, so we should be safe.

Quote:

Bush's Instincts

George W. Bush is a gut player. He doesn't read extensively and he has no time for analyzing conflicting facts, he goes by instinct. Just look at this key section of the Meet the Press interview from yesterday:

Russert: If the Iraqis choose, however, an Islamic extremist regime, would you accept that, and would that be better for the United States than Saddam Hussein?

President Bush: They're not going to develop that. And the reason I can say that is because I'm very aware of this basic law they're writing. They're not going to develop that because right here in the Oval Office I sat down with Mr. Pachachi and Chalabi and al Hakim, people from different parts of the country that have made the firm commitment, that they want a constitution eventually written that recognizes minority rights and freedom of religion.

I remember speaking to Mr. al Hakim here, who is a fellow who has lost 63 family members during the Saddam reign. His brother was one of the people that was assassinated early on in this past year. I expected to see a very bitter person. If 63 members of your family had been killed by a group of people, you would be a little bitter. He obviously was concerned, but he I said, you know, I'm a Methodist, what are my chances of success in your country and your vision? And he said, it's going to be a free society where you can worship freely. This is a Shiia fellow.

And my only point to you is these people are committed to a pluralistic society. And it's not going to be easy. The road to democracy is bumpy. It's bumpy particularly because these are folks that have been terrorized, tortured, brutalized by Saddam Hussein.

Naturally, some people have an aversion to all gut players, but I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt -- some people do know how to read other people and have good instincts, it's what the game of poker is all about. So instead of mocking Bush, let's check the record to see how accurate his gut has been in the past.

In 2001, George W. Bush traveled to Moscow and declared that he had looked into the soul of Vladimir Putin and found a good man.

In the intervening three years, Putin has cracked down on the Russian opposition media and jailed a key political opponent. Over the weekend came the stunning news that one of Putin's few remaining political opponents has gone missing and that Russian authorities made no effort to find him in the first few days after he disappeared. Due in large part to Bush's soul peeking, the U.S. has barely said a word in opposition as Putin has systematically turned Russian democracy into autocratic mob rule.

A good gut player must be a highly skeptical man, one who does more than just peer into the soul of his adversary. He must live by the words Mikhail Gorbachev taught Ronald Reagan: "trust but verify." George W. Bush doesn't think or act that way.

But John McCain does. Listen to what he had to say this weekend to Sergei Ivanov, the Russian defense minister:

"Under President Putin, Russia has refused to comply with the terms of the Treaty on Conventional Forces in Europe. Russian troops occupy parts of Georgia and Moldova . . . Russian agents are working to bring Ukraine further into Moscow's orbit. Russian support sustains Europe's last dictatorship in Belarus. And Moscow has . . . enforced its stranglehold on energy supplies into Latvia in order to squeeze the democratic government in Riga." He concluded: "undemocratic behavior and threats to the sovereignty and liberty of her neighbors will not profit Russia . . . but will exclude her from the company of Western democracies."

It took a U.S. Senator to speak the cold hard truth to the Russians. As for Bush himself, paraphrasing Al Haig from another era, we haven't heard a wimp out of him. McCain and Powell can deliver all the Russian tongue lashings they want, as long as Putie-Put has a friend in the White House, Russia will continue its slow creep back to Stalinism undeterred.

Why? Because in the words of Howard Dean,"if Bush has a theory and a fact, and the two don't coincide, he gets rid of the fact instead of the theory." Makes you feel really confident about the future of Iraq, doesn't it?

Boo · 09-20-2004, 12:04 AM

Since sarcasm prevails:...............

I wonder how many different strategies we won't hear from Kerry's dugout.

IMO - I do not believe that the Soviet Union (or many other countries) are ready for change. Just as some here in the US still cling to racism. Old ways die hard. Forcing change can only bring turmoil.

Flyguy · 09-20-2004, 12:16 AM

Reelect Bush=Cold War 2

The Phenomenon · 09-20-2004, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyguy

Reelect Bush=Cold War 2

That has movie/book potential.

QUICK! Someone call Robert Ludlum!

gcbrowni · 09-20-2004, 04:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyguy

Reelect Bush=Cold War 2

Bush likes Putin. How did you get this?

Putin is right. Russia is weak and the weak do get beaten. It's about time Russia started taking itself seriously.

The Phenomenon · 09-20-2004, 04:10 AM

Bush said that he "looked into Putin's soul" and "saw a good man".

I'm not into this psychic BS myself, but if Bush does not seem to think its a problem to run a country on whims, intuition and good ol' psychic divination.

Ustwo · 09-20-2004, 04:22 AM

Glad to see we have a 'new tone' in politics.

(BTW that was sarcasm in case you are sarcasm impaired.)

The Phenomenon · 09-20-2004, 04:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

Glad to see we have a 'new tone' in politics.

(BTW that was sarcasm in case you are sarcasm impaired.)

Well that IS what Bush said.

He did say that he "looked into his [Putin's] soul" and saw a good man.

I don't think its good that country is run on its leader's emotions, or how he feels about some other leader.

Ustwo · 09-20-2004, 04:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Phenomenon

Well that IS what Bush said.

He did say that he "looked into his [Putin's] soul" and saw a good man.

I don't think its good that country is run on its leader's emotions, or how he feels about some other leader.

There were several posts, why did you think my reply was to that one alone?

The Phenomenon · 09-20-2004, 04:39 AM

Wild stab in the dark. I apologize if it was not directed at me.

Bill O'Rights · 09-20-2004, 05:06 AM

Ok, guys...play nice.
'Nuff said.

onetime2 · 09-20-2004, 05:22 AM

Russia is in a very dangerous place and has been for many years now. Russians have as much or more national pride as Americans and their pride has been taking a beating for too long without significant progress. Mafia, political corruption, struggling economies, slipping importance on the world stage, a massive military which is very discontent, etc, etc, etc all lead to a country ripe for massive upheaval which could easily go the military dictatorship route.

Russia has worried me for a while now and, while I am not significantly more concerned today than I was a year ago, it is certainly something that needs to be watched.

Zeld2.0 · 09-20-2004, 01:01 PM

Russia is really a breeding ground of trouble. Start off with the fact that it is a HUGE nation made up of many many ethnic groups with their own agendas (you have those of Far East, Middle East, and the various European descents all in the same country) which in itself is a major problem given that various groups seek various things including independence.

Add in the fact that the government is weak and that problem is compounded many times over. Before when the USSR was still around, who would dare rebel when they could annihilate you at will.

The government is in a weak position in part due to an absolutely horrid economy. The mafia, often run by former KGB men, is in large control of local economics in many places. Lack of money to pay your military is not smart either. The fact that soldiers may have to sell gun parts to feed their family is telling. When your military orders jets and can't pay for them, your national defense industries fail too.

And amidst all this comes the issue of nuclear weapons - Russia still has the second most in the world.

Whats tough is that Russia has long had a tradition of autocratic government. And that is hard to get by - the entire population of Russia once grew under those circumstances and are used to it. Democracy is wanted by many but it is also suspicious to them. And when you have a small vacuum of power and people willing to take advantage of the situation, you have problems.

james t kirk · 09-20-2004, 01:44 PM

Hmmm,

Rewrite that article.

Only every time you read "Putin", substitute Bush

And every time you read "Chechneya", substitute Iraq

And every time you read, "Russia", substitute USA

09-20-2004, 03:45 PM

Small problem with that, James T Kirk.

Stalingrad, the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier etc..

They're not in the US.

irateplatypus · 09-20-2004, 03:58 PM

i've been worried about putin for a while now. on one hand i want to give him the benefit of the doubt because of chechnya and his country's unique problems... but another part of me says "it's supposed to be a damn democracy and this guy could walk all over it.".

Ustwo · 09-20-2004, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by james t kirk

Hmmm,

Rewrite that article.

Only every time you read "Putin", substitute Bush

And every time you read "Chechneya", substitute Iraq

And every time you read, "Russia", substitute USA

Hmmm rewrite the article that way and it no longer holds true.

Hate to tell ya this but Bush isn't setting himself up to be a dictator.

The Phenomenon · 09-20-2004, 09:16 PM

Well atleast you are right about that, Ustwo.

09-19-2004, 10:59 PM	#2 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	Yes this worries me too. It all really relies on Putin. I don't know enough about the specifics to have more of a comment. __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

09-20-2004, 12:04 AM	#6 (permalink)
Boo Leave me alone! Location: Alaska, USA	Since sarcasm prevails:............... I wonder how many different strategies we won't hear from Kerry's dugout. IMO - I do not believe that the Soviet Union (or many other countries) are ready for change. Just as some here in the US still cling to racism. Old ways die hard. Forcing change can only bring turmoil. __________________ Back button again, I must be getting old.

09-20-2004, 04:22 AM	#11 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	Glad to see we have a 'new tone' in politics. (BTW that was sarcasm in case you are sarcasm impaired.) __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

09-20-2004, 04:39 AM	#14 (permalink)
The Phenomenon Psycho Location: I think my horns are coming out	Wild stab in the dark. I apologize if it was not directed at me. __________________ Do not confuse altruism with kindness, good will or respect for the rights of others. These are not primaries, but consequences, which, in fact, altruism makes impossible. The irreducible primary of altruism, the basic absolute, is self-sacrifice - which means: self-immolation, self-abnegation, self-denial, self-destruction - which means: the self as a standard of evil, the selfless as a standard of the good.

09-20-2004, 05:06 AM	#15 (permalink)
Bill O'Rights will always be an Alyson Hanniganite Location: In the dust of the archives	Ok, guys...play nice. 'Nuff said. __________________ "I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony "Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

09-19-2004, 11:22 PM	#3 (permalink)
The Phenomenon Psycho Location: I think my horns are coming out	Putin is getting scarier by the day.

09-20-2004, 12:16 AM	#7 (permalink)
Flyguy Banned Location: Swooping down on you from above....	Reelect Bush=Cold War 2

09-20-2004, 04:10 AM	#10 (permalink)
The Phenomenon Psycho Location: I think my horns are coming out	Bush said that he "looked into Putin's soul" and "saw a good man". I'm not into this psychic BS myself, but if Bush does not seem to think its a problem to run a country on whims, intuition and good ol' psychic divination.

09-20-2004, 05:22 AM	#16 (permalink)
onetime2 Junkie Location: NJ	Russia is in a very dangerous place and has been for many years now. Russians have as much or more national pride as Americans and their pride has been taking a beating for too long without significant progress. Mafia, political corruption, struggling economies, slipping importance on the world stage, a massive military which is very discontent, etc, etc, etc all lead to a country ripe for massive upheaval which could easily go the military dictatorship route. Russia has worried me for a while now and, while I am not significantly more concerned today than I was a year ago, it is certainly something that needs to be watched. __________________ Strive to be more curious than ignorant.

09-20-2004, 01:01 PM	#17 (permalink)
Zeld2.0 Cherry-pickin' devil's advocate Location: Los Angeles	Russia is really a breeding ground of trouble. Start off with the fact that it is a HUGE nation made up of many many ethnic groups with their own agendas (you have those of Far East, Middle East, and the various European descents all in the same country) which in itself is a major problem given that various groups seek various things including independence. Add in the fact that the government is weak and that problem is compounded many times over. Before when the USSR was still around, who would dare rebel when they could annihilate you at will. The government is in a weak position in part due to an absolutely horrid economy. The mafia, often run by former KGB men, is in large control of local economics in many places. Lack of money to pay your military is not smart either. The fact that soldiers may have to sell gun parts to feed their family is telling. When your military orders jets and can't pay for them, your national defense industries fail too. And amidst all this comes the issue of nuclear weapons - Russia still has the second most in the world. Whats tough is that Russia has long had a tradition of autocratic government. And that is hard to get by - the entire population of Russia once grew under those circumstances and are used to it. Democracy is wanted by many but it is also suspicious to them. And when you have a small vacuum of power and people willing to take advantage of the situation, you have problems.

09-20-2004, 01:44 PM	#18 (permalink)
james t kirk Junkie Location: Toronto	Hmmm, Rewrite that article. Only every time you read "Putin", substitute Bush And every time you read "Chechneya", substitute Iraq And every time you read, "Russia", substitute USA

09-20-2004, 03:45 PM	#19 (permalink)
jconnolly Guest	Small problem with that, James T Kirk. Stalingrad, the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier etc.. They're not in the US.

09-20-2004, 03:58 PM	#20 (permalink)
irateplatypus can't help but laugh Location: dar al-harb	i've been worried about putin for a while now. on one hand i want to give him the benefit of the doubt because of chechnya and his country's unique problems... but another part of me says "it's supposed to be a damn democracy and this guy could walk all over it.". __________________ If you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance for survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves. ~ Winston Churchill

09-20-2004, 09:16 PM	#22 (permalink)
The Phenomenon Psycho Location: I think my horns are coming out	Well atleast you are right about that, Ustwo. __________________ Do not confuse altruism with kindness, good will or respect for the rights of others. These are not primaries, but consequences, which, in fact, altruism makes impossible. The irreducible primary of altruism, the basic absolute, is self-sacrifice - which means: self-immolation, self-abnegation, self-denial, self-destruction - which means: the self as a standard of evil, the selfless as a standard of the good.