pan6467

I think Bush will cut education so deep that going into the military will be the only way for middle and lower classes to get in.

That'll work for awhile. Then when we have noone going to college he'll reinstate the draft.

I truly believe with Kerry, he'll find diplomatic help and pull us out before we have to draft.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

Zeld2.0

I'd say most people (certainly not all by any means) who are in that age range and are eligible or those having relations or connections with those who are eligible will generally say "no thanks" to being drafted... not that they wouldn't go, but would hope they don't get drafted. And to be honest, if people wanted to get drafted, they'd probably have volunteered

The other choices I find are often just legitimate answers that ice the cake for those who are eligible... not that they're wrong (indeed, i agree that most of them are correct) but they're just convenient reasons/even excuses

Flyguy

Another lie from your boy Bush to addto the pile if the pentagon is obviously filling draft board vacincies:
(from MSNBC this morning)

Bush opposes draft
Both Bush and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld have repeatedly said they oppose a draft.

"We don't need the draft," Bush told a campaign audience in Florida last month. "I'll tell you one way you make (the all-volunteer Army) work. I just signed a defense appropriations bill, which is the fourth year in a row in which we've raised the pay of those who wear our uniform, and the pay's getting better. And the housing is getting better."

“This country does not need a draft,” Rumsfeld told an Army sergeant who’d just returned from Iraq and asked about the draft at a town hall meeting in Fort Bliss, Texas on Aug. 23.

Noting the size of the U.S. population, more than 290 million people, Rumsfeld said, “If you add up everyone we are looking for in the active forces, 1.4 million and the Guard and Reserve and the selective reserve and individual ready reserve and if you add them all up, it’s about 2.5 million. And all you have to do is alter the incentives and we can attract and retain all the people we need. We do not need to go to compulsion.”


RACE FOR THE WHITE HOUSE
• Distractions hurt John Kerry
Rumsfeld recalled that as a member of the House of Representatives in the 1960s, he introduced legislation to create an all-volunteer Army.

He thought in the 1960s that “we owed it to people to pay them and treat them like we would if we had to go out and in (the labor) market, attract and retain them.”

And in today’s all-volunteer military, Rumsfeld said, “That’s what we do.”

xepherys

I don't get this argument... how do people ever not know the REALITY of the military... it's the MILITARY. *boggle*

Zeld2.0

*shrug* you could say the same as to why people all throughout history have ran off to war with the romantic notion in their heads only to see soemone get killed and then have that entire notion destroyed...

you would think people would know by now but they don't and honestly never have

Ustwo

Hehe when I turned 18, which was Reagans last year in office, I thought it was cool registering.

Fleeing to Mexico never entered my mind.

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

pan6467

Well it's so easy not to know when you are told by the recruiter, it's only 2 weekends a month and 2 active duty weeks a year (that's what it was) almost everyone I know that went in and are still there turned the guard fulltime. I know my neighbors go every weekend tho so.....

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

Ustwo

Five of my friends had the military pay for their schooling. They have no complaints.

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

Sparhawk

The Air Force is in great shape recruiting-wise; it's currently at 20,000 (or thereabouts) over its congressionally mandated limit, and is trying different methods of "force shaping" to reduce it back to the allowed numbers.

The Army on the other hand is about 20,000 short of its recruiting goals, making for a very tough job for those Army recruiters.

Interestingly, there is a purely voluntary "Blue to Green" program to get airmen to cross over and become a soldier. This airman says Fuck No. Green isn't my color anyway.

Ditto. Freedom isn't Free.

__________________
"In Iraq, no doubt about it, it's tough. It's hard work. It's incredibly hard. It's - and it's hard work. I understand how hard it is. I get the casualty reports every day. I see on the TV screens how hard it is. But it's necessary work. We're making progress. It is hard work."

smooth

Sparhawk,

Just to clarify that if a military force were invading this nation, I would not pack my bags and run off.

But I don't believe in fighting abroad in situations that give rise to delegitimation and destablization of my nation. While I agree with you that freedom is not free, I believe that neither can it be given.

__________________
"The theory of a free press is that truth will emerge from free discussion, not that it will be presented perfectly and instantly in any one account." -- Walter Lippmann

"You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists." -- Abbie Hoffman

SecretMethod70

Freedom isn't free, no. But denying freedom in the name of freedom makes no sense and doesn't work - and this has been known all the way back to the time of the founding fathers, when Benjamin Franklin said "They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security." If the US is truly in danger, the majority of people would fight - it's natural instinct to be willing to fight when one sees a clear danger to one's own interests. So, when the US is truly in danger, people will be willing enough to fight that those who aren't, for whatever reason, are irrelevant. If, when the US is in a clear danger, there are still not enough people willing to fight, it says more about the US than the people.

__________________
Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

MikeyChalupa

Blue to Green is looking for former Navy too, since the Navy is "force-shaping" like a motherfucker right now. What most people fail to realize is that our defense budget doesn't only buy bombs. It puts food on our family tables, clothes on our kids' backs, and roofs over our heads. It pays for much-needed maintenance to our facilities and bases. Limiting pay raises to a level that doesn't meet inflation, cutting bonuses that are incentives to re-enlist, and trimming GI Bill benefits are causing people to leave the military when their tour is up and I can't blame them. This was even before Iraq. But what's the alternative? The American People don't want a high defense budget, which Kerry, like Clinton before him, will almost certainly slash. So, they might get a draft.

Looks like you two flyboys and I are pretty much all in agreement... we don't want draftees in our military any more than they want in. As a supervisor, I have enough trouble with the garbage the recruiters send me who WANTED to join, to have to deal with the ones who didn't. They're not an inconvenience, they are a flat out danger in a combat situation or even in an emergency. I can only imagine how a draftee would respond.

-Mikey

rukkyg

I'd just like to mention that my career plans are to work for the Department of Defense in some form as a civilian engineer. I intend to serve my country, but I want my 60k starting salary to pay my loans, and I don't want my life in danger. Also, let's just say I'm very far from being athletic.

MikeyChalupa

Gotta add this too.

The tone of the quoted artice was obviously anti-draft as well as anti-Bush slanted. Mentioning Bush and Cheney's draft exemptions while completely failing to mention Clinton's was pretty slick but I think most of us noticed his name was missing. The article takes the position that re-instating the draft is bad, but more than that, it leads the reader to conclude that military service is bad too.

The fact of the matter is, the military has always been an unpopular segment of our society. Even after 9/11 when wearing the uniform was all of a sudden "cool" and got you free taxi rides or drinks for about a week. Those who have never served will never really understand what it's like. They just assume it sucks because you could get killed and you have to get a haircut. It's a definite possibility. But you could just as easily get killed as a policeman or firefighter (two other groups that became "cool" overnight) or working the midnight shift at 7-11. And honestly, there are days I wish I had never enlisted. As I'm sure the two Airmen who replied to this thread have too. But for every one of those, there are years of experiences I'd never give up, friends I've made, and skills I've learned that will last a lifetime. And after nine years, I haven't gotten killed once. People die in wars. People die in peace time too. Accidents kill more servicemen than Iraqis do. Anyone who enlists for the college money without that thought in their head shouldn't have enlisted in the first place. You have to understand that you are signing up for a job that you can't quit, will make you follow rules that the rest of America doesn't have to follow, make you leave your family behind for months or years while you go somewhere that people at best, don't like you there, or at worst, are trying to kill you. When you get home, you might find out that there are those whose rights you fought for don't appreciate or even understand why you do it.

The funny part is, as one of my CO's said while watching an anti-war protest, "It's not us that our enemies hate. It's those people."

-Mikey