North Korea may have just tested its first nuclear bomb
 

Link http://www.chosun.com/media/photo/ne...9120044_00.jpg
This is the reported place of explosion, on the border of China and North Korea.

Updates:

Earthquake seismometers seem to have not picked up the blast.
South Korean minister says blast probably not atomic.

Update 1:57am EST:
Link For those that don't know, North Korea has developed an ICBM engine known as the Daepodong-2 (alternately Taep'o-Dong-2), capable of hitting the eastern seaboard of the United States. However, it has lousy navigation and probably would not be able to reach that far.

Very scary. I just wonder how close it was to the China border and how China is reacting, I am sure they are not happy if it were real close.

I am also sure that the Japanese are reacting poorly to this also.

The world continues to become a scarier place to live.

I'd base my guess off the population of the area surrounding the blast. If it was populated, would they really test nukes there? It might be some form of accident in an industrial area. If it was not populated, what would have caused it beside a nuke?

I am sure glad Jimmy Carter fixed everything for us over there in '94.

I for one welcome our new North Korean Overlords.

(I will await more conformation first though)

Hmmm, haven't seen anything on this in any major news distributions yet, i'll go look...

It's being reported on Yahoo as an AP story.

Reuters also has it.

i'm still waiting for more widespread confirmation and some more details. if it is a nuke... well, i guess i'm still hoping it isn't.

Just in time for reelection, a new enemy to fight! Or, maybe a big coincidence, *shrugs* I am worried though.

New? They are already on the list ;)

Kim Jong Il has endorsed Kerry btw (no joke).

Ironicly of course this would help Bush.

and good thing Bush went after the man with a few decrepit scuds instead!

Yahoo story


five paragraphs later.


They revised the article.
This
Turned into this:
Time changed but the bulk of the article is the same.

Please tell me it's someone's job to read the articles. I blame the internet and the person who made cut and paste.

This needs to be addressed and soon (the "huge column/mushroom cloud of smoke"). Also, when I read this I turned on Fox News. They spent about ten seconds on the story(not trying to point fingers at one group just happened to be watching). Please tell me people care about countries launching possible nukes. In these times, if someone launches a nuke at someone else, we might as well tip our hat to humanity.

I also saw that Fox News report...10 seconds about possible nuclear test... very sad. *begin rant* Maybe someone needs to re-educate the world on just how powerful nuclear weapons are. I think we have all become desensitized with this loose way of referring to them in the same group as chemical and biological weapons. They just dont fit in the same group. Sure, a chemical weapon could take a decent chunk out of a densly populated area, but a multi-megaton thermonuclear device could turn an entire downtown city area into a crater, and vaporize all of its suburbs, as well as disrupt communications nationwide. *end rant*

On a side note: If a REAL nuclear test occured on Thursday, wouldnt we have known about it before these reports? There are navstar sattelites with sensors dedicated to detecting open-air nuclear detonations (USNDS). Even if these cant cover the entire world, you would think we would be focusing detection resources on N. Korea due to their advancing atomic weapons programs.

People, people.

We have an UNCONFIRMED report. Hell I think this might be the first time Fox didn't spend 4 hours on a new story.

If any station would give this play if it turns out to be true it would be fox news.

oh and ...
Despite the little issue of China, I'm sure if we invaded N.K. Instead of Iraq the same people would be saying 'What about Saddam Hussain!'

Well, in this case if the president had stated, at the State of the Union, that NK was seeking nukes... he would not have been lying/wrong (lying and wrong being about the same to a thousand dead soldiers).

Scary...


...just makes me once again wonder, "what has this world come to?"...

...it also helps to modivate me to achieve my goal of getting off of this rock called Earth and colonizing Mars...

Yay, more toys to blow up!

If we invaded North Korea, there would be a lot more than a thousand dead US soldiers.

True.

Sign me up.

good thing we went after those dangerous iraqis. and those talibans with the sticks and stones. i really like the kim endorsement of kerry helping bush. we dont need no steenking diplomacy. lets go to war with a true psychopath that has at least 4 bombs with the missiles capable of reaching.....?

And I'm sure glad that Bush is paying as much attention to this real threat than the threats in the desert that he conjured up in that rodeo brain of his.

Sign me up too.

US officials say that it may be due to a forest fire. This would fit well with the report that no seismic activity was recorded.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiapc...ast/index.html

Ok...for the third time, in a little under one week, I've been in the tenuous position of agreeing with Ustwo. How disturbing, indeed, to find him the voice of reason.

Thank you, Ustwo, for restoring a little ballance into my world. :rolleyes:
You were beginning to scare me there for awhile. :D

Soon you will be goose stepping in no time!

Actually you know I am right on that one too :thumbsup:

Even if it was a nuke test, it's not like they're gonna use em on us...

...or does the concept of MAD not ring a bell to them?

if they has nukes it wouldn't be a MAD scenario.

1) they would almost certainly be primitive (compared to ours anyway) and relatively low yield weapons. lots of destructive power, but not enough for MAD.

2) as their program would be very young, they would have few of them.

3) they lack a sufficient delivery mechanism for delivering over the Pacific.

Ah, No seismic == no nuke.

If America, Britain, France, Israel, South Africa, Russia, India, Pakistan... etc etc can have nuclear weapons, why shouldnt Korea? The whole concept of non-proliferation always seemed the most incredible example of hypocrisy to me. How dare the nations who nuclear arms sit there and say "well, now that we have our weapons, nobody else needs any, and we must work tirelessly to stop them having an equal level of arms as us"

Bah you beat me to it. That's how we used to gague the strength of Russian nukes, we got REALLY good at using the waves at locations around the earth to seeing how strong they are. Even the backpack bombs would have a seismic fingerprint. This is just a very very large bomb (daisycutter-esque) in which Kim is using to convince his people that even though they starve in the millions they're still better under his government than the capitalist one accross the way.

Might be hypocritical, but the fact is they signed the treaty. Also with a maniac at the helm, I don't think a "fair-is-fair" attitude has an oz. of merit.

Erm... *cough*.

i'm willing to trade hypocrisy for fewer nukes in the world. if its hypocrisy to say "i have them, but i sure as hell don't want YOU to have them" then i am indeed a hypocrite in this situation.

Yeah, Bush is definitely comparable to Kim Jong Ill... :rolleyes:

Update:
Seismographic data from September 9th, the day the "bomb" went off.
http://www.mgs.md.gov/helicorder/SDM...2004090900.gif

Note that this following seismograph has a small jump at the same time as the one above, approximately 8:10 in Pyongyang and 16:10 in Universal Time
http://photon.physics.hmc.edu/research/geo/day3_4.gif

This was plotted in Canada, at the same time as the others.
http://]http://www.seismo.nrcan.gc.c...0912150000.gif

Powell Says N. Korea Blast Not Nuclear

2 hours, 15 minutes ago Add Top Stories - AP to My Yahoo!


By CHRISTOPHER TORCHIA, Associated Press Writer

SEOUL, South Korea - A huge explosion in the northern part of North Korea (news - web sites) sent a plume of smoke more than two miles wide into the air on an important anniversary of the secretive communist regime, a South Korean news agency reported Sunday. Secretary of State Colin Powell (news - web sites) said the explosion Thursday was not a nuclear test but that it was not known yet what caused it.

"There was no indication that was a nuclear event of any kind. Exactly what it was, we're not sure," Powell said on ABC's "This Week."


China's government, which has the closest relations with North Korea, had no immediate comment about the reported explosion.


The Yonhap news agency said the blast Thursday was more powerful than the April 22 explosion that killed 160 people and injured an estimated 1,300 at a railway station in North Korea. That explosion was believed caused by a train laden with oil and chemicals hitting power lines.


In a story published before Yonhap's report, The New York Times said Sunday that senior U.S. intelligence officials had seen signs of activities that some analysts thought might indicate North Korea was preparing its first test explosion of a nuclear weapon.


Other experts were more cautious in their assessments, but the developments were considered worrisome enough for the White House to be alerted, the Times said.


Asked about the report, Powell told "Fox News Sunday" that U.S. authorities have been monitoring activities at a "potential nuclear test site."


"We can't tell whether it's normal maintenance activity or something more," he said. "So it's inconclusive at this moment, but we continue to monitor these things very carefully."


With North Korea being closely watched because of its suspected work to develop nuclear weapons, international experts would likely have been able to detect a nuclear test explosion if one had occurred several days ago.


The explosion happened at 11 a.m. Thursday in Yanggang province near the border with China, Yonhap said.


"We understand that a mushroom-shaped cloud about 3.5 to 4 kilometers (2.1 to 2.5 miles) in diameter was monitored during the explosion," the news agency quoted an unidentified diplomatic source in Seoul, the South Korean capital, as saying.


Yonhap quoted an unidentified South Korean official as saying seismic activity related to two blasts in North Korea occurred at 11 p.m. Wednesday and 1 a.m. Thursday.


The damage and crater left by the explosion in Kim Hyong Jik county was big enough to be noticed by a satellite, Yonhap quoted an unidentified source in Beijing as saying.


The agency said the diplomatic source raised the possibility of a nuclear text blast or an accidental explosion. It quoted a source in Washington as saying the incident could be related to a natural disaster such as a forest fire.


Yonhap later quoted Kim Jong-min, spokesman for the South Korean presidential office, as saying: "Currently, we are trying to find out in detail the exact character, cause and size of the accident, but we don't think North Korea conducted a nuclear test."


Thursday was the anniversary of North Korea's founding on Sept. 9, 1948. Leader Kim Jong Il uses the occasion to stage performances and other events to bolster loyalty among the impoverished North Korean population.


Experts have speculated North Korea might use a major anniversary to conduct a nuclear-related test, but one analyst said an open-air test, as opposed to one below ground, would be difficult in such a small country.





"It's difficult to say, but it won't be easy for North Korea to conduct a nuclear test without resulting in massive losses of its own people," said Koh Yu-hwan, a North Korea expert in Seoul. "I think there is a (greater) possibility that it is a simple accident, rather than a deliberate nuclear test."

Yonhap's diplomatic source in Seoul said the explosion took place "not far" from a military base that holds ballistic missiles. North Korea, which has a large missile arsenal and more than 1 million soldiers, is dotted with military installations.

Kim Jong Il on Sunday met Li Changchun, a senior official of China's Communist Party who was on a goodwill visit to Pyongyang, said KCNA, the North's official news agency. Li delivered a letter from Chinese President Hu Jintao, KCNA said.

KCNA did not mention the reported explosion. China had said that the agenda for Li's talks would include North Korea's nuclear development.

On Saturday, North Korea said recent revelations that South Korea (news - web sites) conducted secret nuclear experiments involving uranium and plutonium made the communist state more determined to pursue its own nuclear programs.

The South Korean experiments, conducted in 1982 and 2000, were likely to further complicate the already stalled six-nation talks aimed at dismantling North Korea's nuclear development. South Korea has said the experiments were purely for research and did not reflect a desire to develop weapons.


Who knows? But it appears those who sustained a "wait and see" attitude may have been correct.

Still scary to think how easily we can believe the worst.

Nice. I came here to see if anyone has posted about this Iran/Russia Nuclear Agenda and I see this instead. Some days I don't know if I should run or just stay in bed.

Just give them some time.

I rember the Hyundai Pony in 1990.

Look at Hyundai now.