Bin Laden capture close.
 

Can this come at a more obvious time? Did any of you actually think he wouldn't be caught several months before election time? I guarantee you next month they will announce Bin Laden’s capture and Bush will be re-elected. Personally, I believe they already have Bin Laden and are just waiting for the right moment to release the information publicly. I will tell you this though, anybody who didn’t see this coming and actually votes for Bush because of this is a fool. The sneaky bastard had this up his sleeve all along. Looks like this election is unfortunately going to be a gimme because Bush is going to use Bin Laden’s capture as well as repeated reminders of 9/11 to win the hearts of blind Americans. I’m sorry, but this just frustrates the hell out of me.



http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...stan_bin_laden

I hate to say it but you're probably right. I'd bet pure cold hard cash that bin laden is either dead right now and they have his body to prove it or he's in a cell totally ripe for the administrations use for re-election.

And you're totally right. Whoever votes for Bush just becasue of this annoucement is a fucking fool.

I bet his capture does come out within the next few months and bush wins the election.

So, would the day BEFORE the election be too obvious?

Id probably release the information 2-3 weeks before the election. A day earlier and people might have already decided who they are going to vote for and their decision might not change.

It would be extremely cynical to whip out the OBL card 60 days before election. I really hope it hasn't gotten to this.

Sorry to say this guys, BUT this belongs on paranoid thread. However, I'll post my 2 cents.

1) what are they going to say this close to the election Bin Laden is still out of our grasp = RESULT: Bush loses credibility, he needs us to believe OBL is close to capture so that he can prove he has everything in control.

2) What if OBL is captured during a debate and the debate is interupted by his capture, or his capture comes within 2 weeks of the election? I seriously believe that enough people would sense the deception and Kerry would win.

I don't put anything past this administration after all most of these guys worked with Reagan and Iran - Contra and got the hostages released the day Reagan took oath in '81. But I also believe they are not stupid enough to "capture" OBL before the election, too many conspiracists out there, too many votes that could be lost. Even if Bush does have a double digit lead now, there is no doubt in my mind that between now and the election Kerry will catch up and the "capture" of OBL would be far far too much of a gamble to take.

haha, I expect it will happen that way, its just too easy. and I cant say that if I was in bush's position that I wouldnt do the same (though I shant vote for him)

They have been saying things like this for the last 2 years. Until I see his body I won't believe it. The important thing for the American public to remember is that the war on terror will NOT end with the capture of Bin Ladin. In some ways he is more valuable alive on the run than dead. Put that into your consipiracy pipe :)

Americans vote for Bush primarily because of fear and religion. But I feel there's also a large segment of our population that actually enjoys being dominated, is attracted to Bush's seemingly limitless power. Even if Bush's policies hurt them, they're infatuated with the prospect of increasing American power. They feel that they'd do what Bush does if they could afford to. Ignorance is also a factor here. It might sound condescending to say this, but if you look at the arguments by Bush supporters, they mainly appeal to emotion:

We were a peaceful nation, but then we were attacked by evil terrorists, and President Bush stood up for America. I might not agree with all of his policies, but Bush was there hugging the firefighters on Sept. 11th... (OK. Sept. 14th. So what that it took him three days before he even got to New York City?)

If you counter this argument by reporting the actual state of our union -- a net loss of a million jobs the last four years, a record $445 billion budget deficit, more Americans without insurance, record-setting prices at the gas pump, involvement in a very costly war that seemed avoidable -- the Republicans start the noise machine, and shout you down as unpatriotic. They can't argue factually, because the facts just aren't on their side. But the emotional nature of the situation allows them to justify their actions. And the result is one more misguided vote for Bush.

Lets stop there for now....

I am not afraid of terrorists. I want them dead, but I don't live in fear, so strike one.....

I am an atheist. I have been one since 3rd grade. Strike two.......

If anything I'm a 'top', Strike three........

I think what you fail to understand is there are people out there who are quite smart, and well educated who LIKE Bush and like his policies. I think he is a bit to much of a socialist, but otherwise I am very happy with Bush. Bush is genuine, I don't need to wonder how he will react because he doesn't pretend to be what he is not. Some of his compassionate conservative agenda I hope gets shot down, but otherwise I'm happy with him and his policies.

Don’t worry you don’t sound condescending, you sound like a liberal who doesn’t understand that a great many THINKING people are Republicans. You might not understand why, but you need to understand that we exist, and exist in great numbers.

Actually we were anything but peaceful. Somalia, Haiti, Iraq, and Bosnia were all places America had been blowing things up for the last decade, this was all under president Clinton. I am not going to say he was wrong to do so, but just want to point out that there was no real peace, we just felt invulnerable despite the first WTC bombing.

Ok, this is where you need to use your own head a bit. I would have been very critical of him showing up earlier. There was work to do, and a presidential visit would have only gotten into the way. Going there to see the damage and shake hands was only symbolic and he handled that perfectly. What was more important was planning what do to next, and you don’t do that at a photo op. This is one of those times where people complain because they can’t think of anything of substance to say. Bush handled it masterfully.

Unemployment is currently at 5.4 percent. 6 percent is considered FULL employment. The jobs claim is basically a myth. He may have inherited a recession, but we are doing just fine.

Now this IS something I do fault Bush on. But he is acting like a liberal on social policy and unlike a liberal he is getting his agenda done. Kerry has promised about 2 trillion in spending, the only good thing is being Kerry he doesn’t mean it.

Can’t speak for this one as I have no idea what the current numbers are, (either do you), but despite claims, no one is dying of disease on the street untreated. This is another one of those whines without substance.

Agree, lets get rid of some of the stupid ‘special’ EPA regs for some areas (like Chicago) and drill in ANWR.

Oh of course it was avoidable, but as shocking as it will be to you, it was the right thing to do. A majority of Americans feel the same.

No, you just don’t like our facts. Even John Kerry, Mr. Waffles, has said knowing what he knows now he wouldn’t have changed his vote on Iraq (I’m sure he said the opposite somewhere else). He voted for war btw. I’m voting for Bush, and I am anything but misguided. You may not agree with me, you may not have the same information I do, you may not LIKE it but unless you understand that there are smart people who agree with Bush on the substance of the issues, you will only continue to be wrong and your thinking and make posts based on that wrong thinking.

Ummm Mr. UsTwo I am a thinking, intelligent person as many on TFP are and I sir am a DEMOCRAT because I am a thinker and can see that what you and the GOP offer is faux Conservativism. IT IS NOT what Goldwater taught and it is not in any way shape or form healthy for our country.

Bush's conservativism consists of:
-bigger government, more deficit more spending and not just a loss of jobs but a loss of net income to middle and lower class families
-more laws in the guise of "patriotism" (the Patriot Act, the Marriage amendment),
-more inequality (sure he may give a $250 tax rebate to families but states and cities in order to make up for the Federal cutbacks end up taxing more by raising property taxes, sales taxes and income taxes so that Federal tax rebate is pretty much tripled in the money going out by these people in new taxes or the states and cities have just cut services to the bone that affects the middle and lower income brackets... but we won't talk of that because we don't want people to realize the truth now),
-and fewer chances for the poor to advance. A decrease in educational values,
-a decrease in allowing a fair and equal playing field for the small business owners (while increasing corporate welfare, and allowing companies to purge their employees),
-a healthcare system that is very fast becoming one of bankruptcy,
-a war that was unecessary andis bankrupting us
-a promotion of fear and hatred
-a theocracy and religion dictated governmentdisguised as "moral and just"

Not one of those bullets are in Goldwater's teachings. But of course mention Goldwater to a neo-con and they shudder saying he was too liberal. Funny, the conservative wing of the GOP started with Goldwater.

So, Mr. Ustwo, do not sit there and act as though your party and their platform and beliefs are far greater because in the end the freedoms we love in this country will be gone, very soon. Keep preaching hatred and how great you are though... hopefully people will see the ego and the self righteous elitist piousness and start waking up to the reality this president is giving us.

I never said there weren't democrats who were thinking and intelligent people now did I?

I could care less what Goldwater laid out at this point in time. I am baiscly one of those scary evil Neo-Cons.

*BOO!*

I bet you were scared :icare:

BTW: your argument on unemployment is also faulty, unemployment ONLY counts those eligible. So those like many of the 1000's in the Canton area that have taken buyouts don't get counted, yet they are very much unemployed. Then you have to figure how many have run out of unemployment, how many have given up looking for jobs and how many have taken jobs paying 1/3 -1/2 less than what they made.

Trust me, I live in one of these areas and as you said in a post above (paraphrasing of course) you can take that 5.4% and put it in your pipe and smoke it because it has to make better smoke than fact.

Ah I see, its that magical jobless recovery again!

I can't speak for every part of the nation obviously, but the numbers are on my side, and in my area of Illinois, the economy is booming. If you want to make non-verifiable statments that the economy is bad thats fine.

No the only thing scary is that your kind preach Goldwater but you practice just far enough left so as not to be called fascists. Your people are scared to tell the masses that you are about as far from Goldwater as you can possibly be, yet you'll preach him to get votes.... very sincere honesty.

Actually, 4 more years of Bush and the GOP will pretty much be dead politically because in 4 years at this rate ABB won't just be a "liberal chant" it'll be everywhere.

You can fool some of the people some of the time, some of the people all of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time and Neo-Cons are running out of time to prove they truly want a better country for all not just the rich.

I can verify my statements about NE Ohio where is your proof?

States
with over-the-year employment decreases were Michigan (-55,100, -1.3 per-
cent), Ohio (-31,100, -0.6 percent), Massachusetts (-1,900, -0.1 percent),
and Connecticut (-1,500, -0.1 percent).

link: http://stats.bls.gov/news.release/laus.nr0.htm

========

Funny little graph here LOOK at Clinton's years and look what Bush has done since:


Series Id: LNS14000000Seasonal AdjustedSeries title: (Seas) Unemployment RateLabor force status: Unemployment rateType of data: PercentAge: 16 years and over


Year Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec Annual
1992 7.3 7.4 7.4 7.4 7.6 7.8 7.7 7.6 7.6 7.3 7.4 7.4
1993 7.3 7.1 7.0 7.1 7.1 7.0 6.9 6.8 6.7 6.8 6.6 6.5
1994 6.6 6.6 6.5 6.4 6.1 6.1 6.1 6.0 5.9 5.8 5.6 5.5
1995 5.6 5.4 5.4 5.8 5.6 5.6 5.7 5.7 5.6 5.5 5.6 5.6
1996 5.6 5.5 5.5 5.6 5.6 5.3 5.5 5.1 5.2 5.2 5.4 5.4
1997 5.3 5.2 5.2 5.1 4.9 5.0 4.9 4.8 4.9 4.7 4.6 4.7
1998 4.6 4.6 4.7 4.3 4.4 4.5 4.5 4.5 4.6 4.5 4.4 4.4
1999 4.3 4.4 4.2 4.3 4.2 4.3 4.3 4.2 4.2 4.1 4.1 4.0
2000 4.0 4.1 4.0 3.8 4.0 4.0 4.0 4.1 4.0 3.9 3.9 3.9
2001 4.2 4.2 4.3 4.4 4.3 4.5 4.6 4.9 5.0 5.4 5.6 5.7
2002 5.6 5.7 5.7 5.9 5.8 5.8 5.8 5.7 5.7 5.7 5.9 6.0
2003 5.8 5.9 5.8 6.0 6.1 6.3 6.2 6.1 6.1 6.0 5.9 5.7
2004 5.6 5.6 5.7 5.6 5.6 5.6 5.5 5.4

LINK:
http://data.bls.gov/servlet/SurveyOutputServlet

Hmmmmm interesting .... eh? Election year the numbers start decreasing but very slowly..... and this Clinton recession.... hmmm who was in power in Congress voting on spending bills? Yet even with all that Clinto had unemployment in the low 4% ile after inheriting a very high 7% ile :while Bush has pretty much been holding it steady at 5.5-6 yep, his policies are definately working so much better. :lol:

Back on topic, it appears the War on TErrorism and this "patriotism" dictated by the right are the only things going for Bush. And yet, if he captures OBL he may lose because the people might see his administration for what it is. Yet, if he doesn't capture OBL he may lose. What a dilemma.

Bush somehow engineering the capture of OBL to help him in an election?

in the words of sam the eagle: "You are all weirdos"
(Bonus points to any poster who can tell me what movie that line is from :) )

I hope you realize how crazy an idea that is. My vote is transfer to Tilted Paranoia.

Irate that came from the Muppet Movie.... Sam the Eagle was one of my favorite Muppets on the Muppet Show.

outstanding, double thumbs up. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

For the purpose of this discussion, let's assume that you do exist.

You do not exist in great numbers.

Half the conservative base is very religious and very afraid of terrorists.

You, the "thinking" conservative, are a conservative anamoly.


Move this to Paranoia.

But remember folks - just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not following you.

how about Tilted Abuse? this is getting silly opie.

Ok bub, let's get something straight here. Just for the record, there isn't enough oil in ANWR back home to support the entire country at our current rate of consumption. Everyone in the GOP would love for you to think this is true to get your support for drilling. And don't start quoting that I need scientific data to back up my claims. Use some common sense and pure logic and you'll find that I'm correct. What we NEED to be doing is developing new technologies so that we don't have to run on oil anymore and we can tell the Arabs to take their oil and shove up their ass. But again, your boy Bush favors his wealthy supporters and he won't do anything to piss them off.....

You mean I'm all alone? :confused:

Maybe we want you to feel that way, and when you least expect it, we will jump out from under your bed, steal your pot, force you to get a hair cut, and give you a tax break!

I'd be surprised if Bin Laden could be taken alive... he appears to be a geuine religious maniac, I think his hateful crusade is more valuable to him than his own life... and he understand, as everyone must, that in death he will be a matyr to his cause. I remember reading one of his alleged announcements, when he basically said "of course I will be killed, America is a super power, but when you kill 1000 new Usama's are created."

Stories that he has been captured for over a year and Bush is going to "unveil" him just before election have been going around for so long I think thye could even have a negative effect - if he WAS captured in the next month it would almost be a negative for Bush because so many people would see the cynical angle... and ultimately, if he is or is not captured - this does not change the basic reasons why I believe Bush should not be re-elected and why I believe most people who vote Kerry will vote that way.

And if Bin Laden was dead, I think we would all know about it, I have a feeling he is not going to go quietly when he goes.

Has anything in Dubya's political technique given you any reason to belive that Karl Rove is anything but extremely cynical? :mad:

No your not alone. there are a few of us here on the very liberal TFP, imagine how many there are in the real world.


Even if the capture of bin laden was for real (before the election) , the liberals would all be screaming conspiracy.

Agreed on all points, Strange Famous. And please count me in with the thinking conservatives...

yeah, there might be another 1000 Usama's created, but that's ok...

i'm sure they wouldn't all be internationally connected multibillionaire industrial titans like bin laden. i'm sure they wouldn't be as intelligent and well-advised as this one appears to be.

another 1000 usama's? i'm sure we eliminate nearly a thousand of the regular variety every month.

Its interesting see the path this thread has taken. It seems to be a basic assumption by most of the liberal/dem posters that if OBL captured or killed before the election it has to be a conspiricy by the administration to sway the election. What blows me away is that people seem to be discussing this topic as if it were common sense that this is how it is.

Tinfoil hats are invading TFP Politics.

Well, there's precedent in this thread that was inspired by this article. To say that a capture of OBL has to be politically motivated when the timing is considered is very presumptous. But to deny that the administration would let the oppurtunity go to time it to their electoral advantage is to ignore Bush's desperation to be in office.

Tinfoil hats have been here ever since the first utterance of the phrase "liberal media".

I agree, only I'm not the one wearing the Reynolds Wrap.

The NPR reporter today on Fox was priceless :lol:

How bout this: obl winds up captured 6 months 'after' bush is re-elected. then we can all praise bush for his leadership.

gotta love politics. :lol: :crazy:

Ignoring the possibility of Bush using bin Laden's capture for political gain, or writing it off as a crazy liberal conspiracy is a big mistake. Search for Diebold on google. They make electronic voting machines and the ceo is a top fund raiser for Bush. They just recently got caught by coding a backdoor where the outcome of an election can be changed even though this was suspected all along by many computer security experts. Yet you do not hear anything about this on the news, however the Daily Show aired a special, yet it's too bad no "neo-con" would ever watch let alone take it seriously. There is also a site dedicated to this issue. http://www.blackboxvoting.org/?q=node/view/78 Call this a crazy liberal conspiracy theory also though.

You know if its on the internet it must be true!

I'm sure the press would NEVER cover something like this being that they are all part of the Republican propaganda machine.

The very fact there are so many people (on both sides) believing Bush and company capable of using an OBL trick should scare everyone. The fact that there are Neo-Cons out there, who either, just are totally assholish, believe everything Bush says, are led only by hatred and unwilling to see that there are even very sane unbiased non political people that worry Bush is capable of doing this is scarier still.

I think it says a lot about our society and the people who are leading us when we have such little faith in our government. It's even worse when so many blame the press and education of being biased and they work to destroy these necessities to democracy and freedom because those things that are most responsive and truly the major components of our nation's greatness (along with small businesses that they wish to destroy by allowing major corporations free reign).

These are also the same people that tell others to provide facts, yet refuse to give any themselves and will argue, bully, call names and treat others below them over the non-issues because they don't know how to win true debates..

pan6467 - What facts are those? Please don't even pretend that the left doesn't ignore facts they don't like and can't defend (I have yet to see a left tfper come to the defense of the democrats being bought off by the trial lawyers for one thing). Lets take your facts posted above, is unemployment higher now then in 2000? Yep, and you want to blame Bush for it right? I have to ask you why? You don't know you will just say 'see, see its his fault!'. But Pan6467 what should GWB have done? Should he have done the wacky things the French did which has turned their economy to sludge? Should he have raised taxes? Should he have made it illegal to fire people?

He did what he could, lower taxes, increase the money to the private sector and let the economy sort itself out. Its working just fine. There is very little a president can do to improve an economy, but there is a lot he can do to screw one up by getting in the way.

Now lets get to the meat of the deal. Do you agree that Bush inherited a recession? I don’t think there is a lot of debate about that, but you never know with the left. Do you know that when you are in a recession, jobs are the last to go. I don’t know if you ever had to fire anyone, I have, and its something you try to avoid. Likewise when things start to recover the last thing you do is hire. You don’t want to hire someone you don’t really need. Also I would assume you know that small business numbers are not accurately portrayed in unemployment figures and we have had a boom in small businesses? Finally you do know how much damage 9/11 caused to the economy right? We had just started on a recovery and then ‘boom’. They didn’t call it the world trade center because it was a sports complex, and that’s only the direct damage.

My first post in 7 months, ( http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=67722) stating MY views some members of the left decided that it was a troll post and I was told and I quote from a long time TFPer ‘Also, I enjoy the taste of Karl Rove's cock.’. Good job tilted left, you restored my faith in you! It was a troll post in some minds of course because I was saying bad things about democrats. Never mind that I see true troll posts from left wing tfpers all damn day and not one of those people complains about them.

Get off your high horse and come to grips with the fact that you perhaps do not understand what you are talking about when you refer to the ‘right’.

You are willing to think the worst of the Bush government yet not that there maybe problems in the press or the education system? You think people like me want to ‘destroy’, your word not mine, the press and the education system? Where do you GET this stuff from? All we seek is a balance in the press (and we are getting close) and while we may wish to destroy the teachers union as it is hurting our children (and is buying the democrats), that is not going to destroy education. I have a great respect for education, you NEED to be smart to be a evil neo-con like myself and I have my letters being my name then I care to list. I want people to be better educated.

If you wish to have an intelligent debate that’s great, I'm all for it, but you are going to have to come to understand that I don't agree with you, that doesn't make me stupid.

So today there was an article about Al-Douri being captured then all the sudden he wasn't captured. Now this is just paranoia/speculation but what happens if is "captured" a few weeks before the election?

edited for temperance..... just saying Ustwo... I offered to debate facts with you before and you chose to ignore the challenge... it is still on the table any time.

I don't see any facts there, but I do see a lot of opinion, you want me to debate your opinions?

Why do all Bush puppets claim everything to be paranoiac, when in fact it is very much a real possibility. I find it extremely amusing that you will back your leader no matter how many negative facts are thrown into your face. You folks need to understand that not everything the govt. or media tells you is true. Just like the Pentagon and WTC threads (which you absolutely refuse to even listen too), you will remain close-minded and blind to this as well, and that is sad. Go ahead and continue to be puppets while failing to see the direction this man is taking your country, but I guarantee you that one day not only will you regret it, but you will realize the destruction he has caused will come back and hit us hard.

Whoa! This is a hell of a thread! Its getting kind of heated. The thing that has been bothering me most about this impending election and about politics in general is the total lack of respect for one another. And this goes on with both "sides." What I find discouraging is the degree to which everyone seems totally convinced that their farts don't stink and that they know exactly what's going on. What's missing in this sad political debate (and this thread is a prime example of it) is a sense of compromise. Everyone feels like it needs to be my way or go f*** yourself. And that's wrong. So my little piece on this situation goes like this:

I think a lot of things about Bush, both good and bad, but my main objection to what he has overseen as president is the total polarization of our country. As was pointed out above, there is very little a president can do about something like the economy, but he gets blamed for it anyway. The president may not have as much power as we think. However, Bush has overseen, and in my view done little to correct, a collossal collapse of the working relationships between Republicans and Democrats. He has made divisive decisions and implimented divisive policies. What I believe he has been failing the most at has been bringing others along with him. There will always be conspiracy theories. And normally those are confinded to the fringe where they belong. But presently there are a huge number of people who seem ready and willing to believe things like that. And that is what I fault Bush for. Not his politics, they are his own, and pleanty of people support him. But the fact that Bush has been either unable or unwilling to take the time to explain and build an approved of case for why he wants to do something is a tremendous shortcoming. We should not be THIS divided and I think there is a lot Bush could be doing to correct that but chooses not to. Leadingship means bringing along the unwilling and inspiring the uninspired. And doing those things takes more than a smirk, a cocky attitude, a "rightious" cause and a distain for those who oppose him. What we need as a country is a unifying force. Is John Kerry it? I have no idea. But I'm certain Bush isn't, and right now I only have one other option.

I'd just like to clarify a little bit because I think I was vague in my last few sentences. What I see Bush doing very little of is compromising. He projects a very cavileer attitude complete with a kind of "I don't take crap from anybody" stance. I think this can be agreed on pretty much. I believe that it is this attitude, that is exaulted by the right and despised by the left, that has ruined politics. No side is entirely correct, justr accept that right now. In fact, it seems that people lose sight of the fact that the objective of politics is to be able to live together, not be to "right."

honestchipmunk,

i can see what you're saying about the election bringing out the worst in people as far as not being courteous and respectful to eachother. but let's not forget that people were saying the same thing 4 years ago, and 8, and 12, and 16 and so on. every election is "the most important election of our times" and every year brings a "new level of mudslinging and attacking politics."

i believe that the problem is more systemic to our culture and not the result of al gore, dob dole, bill clinton, george bush, or john kerry. every four years the country is given the opporunity to reject venemous politics and embrace a moderated discourse... but we do not.

I hope they catch the bastard regardless.

Bush did everything a reasonable man could do to work with the democrats. He even let Ted Kennedy write the damn education bill (which the dems don't like because it was signed by Bush and not a democrat president). The democrats have done EVERYTHING in their power to screw with Bush, from holding up homeland security to appease a union, to not allowing almost any Judges to be put on the bench.

About the only thing the democrats would accept is for Bush to give them everything while getting nothing in return. At this point working with the democrats is pointless. Laura Bush in an interview said that this was the most disapointing thing about Washington. In Texas Bush and the Dems there had a good working relationship, Bush tried to bring that to Washington, he was warned that it wouldn't work but he tried anyways, and he failed not through lack of effort, but due to the 'win at all costs even if it screws the country' mentality the DNC has had.

THIS is why they lost the Senate in 2002, and will most likely lose this election in November.

WHAT could the man have done?

"I don't see any facts there, but I do see a lot of opinion, you want me to debate your opinions?"

See what I did there ?

that's what we're doing here... debating opinions.

would you really want to debate cold hard facts? i can't think of anything more tedious or redundant.

You still allowed to post Nano? I'm surprised, the mods let your last one to me slip through or should I quote it again?


Nano's true colors

Now that we can all see where your level of discourse belongs, I will address the fact that you are correct. It might be a fact that Ted Kennedy did write the education bill, it might be a fact that now the democrats say its a horrible bill, it might be a fact that the homeland security bill was held up due to union wishes, and it might be a fact that the democrats have been holding up all of Bush's judicial appointees, (you DO remember 'memogate' don't you?) but the rest is opinion.

"The President Has Repeatedly Broken His Promise to Provide Federal Support for Education. In the two years since the President signed the No Child Left Behind (NCLB) Act, none of his budgets have come close to meeting the level of funding authorized in the Act. The FY 2004 budget submitted by President Bush fell $9 billion short of the amount authorized for 2004 and his FY 2003 budget fell $7.2 billion short of approved funding. [Office of Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi, 6/9/03; Associated Press, 2/24/03]"
http://www.democrats.org/specialreports/nclb/
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/...h.no.child.ap/
Democrats are upset that Bush tanked the bill by killing its funding. A great bill/policy is just a piece of paper unless it gets proper funding. The CNN article is somewhat more and less damning in the same instance. The article says that Bush's budget did try to kill funding for NCLB, but congress did not follow Bush's budget in this area and allocated more fund to NCLB. I can't see how he can take credit for something he has tried to kill several times.



"Rep. Constance Morella, R-Md., whose district includes many federal workers, joined Democrats in the Government Reform Committee to pass, 21-19, an amendment to ensure that civil servants whose jobs don't change when they move to the new department don't lose collective bargaining rights. "
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/...in515237.shtml

From the CBS article it seems like this amendment was added within a day or two; I would imagine the article would have at least hinted at some hold up if it existed. I also don't see how stripping workers of their right to collectively bargain makes the US any safer.



"After taking care to mollify Democrats with two nominees previously tapped by former President Clinton, Mr. Bush asked the evenly divided Senate "to provide a prompt vote to every nominee."
But Senate Democrats vowed Wednesday to hold up at least one of Mr. Bush's choices, a former aide to Republican Sen. Jesse Helms of North Carolina.
Senate Democratic Leader Tom Daschle said Terrence Boyle was the only one of the 11 candidates nominated against the wishes of a home-state Democratic senator.
Daschle said Democrats would seek to block confirmation of Boyle until the concerns of that senator, John Edwards of North Carolina, were resolved.
Daschle said Democrats may oppose other nominees, but have not yet had an opportunity to adequately review their credentials and philosophies.
Democrats in the Senate, which must approve all judicial nominees, are still angry that Republicans in the last few years did not act on a number of candidates for judge submitted by President Clinton. White House officials were bracing for a possible Democratic backlash. "
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/...le290263.shtml

I guess those crafty democrats have quite the scheme going holding-up all of Bush's appointments, and after the Republican were so nice to Clinton when he went to appoint judges. I would also like to point-out the aid was for FREAKING JESSE HELMS. That request is like asking for Chomsky to be appointed as a judge, it would never, ever work.



About you sucking Karl Rove's cock, I am sorry I made that statement. I am just deeply saddened that you believe everything that comes out of the White House without trying to fact check their statements. I didn't mean that you actually perform fellatio on Mr. Rove; I was just trying to think of imagery which is equal in magnitude to your believe in the veracity of White House statements. Deep-throated fellatio was simply the first thought that I had; my deepest aplologies Ustwo.

I don't understand why people are angry at Bush for this.

Don't get angry at Bush, get angry at the vast amount of people who, after OBL's capture, will suddenly decide, "Wow, Bush is getting rid of terrorism!! He's our savior to the homeland and he most certainly has MY vote!" They are the ones who vote, and as a result, are the ones who are helping the decline of this country.

People don't know the difference of OBL getting captured under Bush's presidency vs. Bush capturing OBL himself. Aaaaaaaaaaanybody who is president can easily capture OBL. Praise the generals who put the plans together and utilize the technology we have to make a successful mission. Bush has NOTHING to do with it at all whatsoever.

It's not that big of a deal.. I mean, it's good he's captured and all, but things around the world won't change much and it certainly won't get rid of, or hinder the progress of, terrorism.

yeh you're right. until fox news covers it, it is a total fabrication devoid of any factual information. They would never not mention on the news that Halliburton got fined 7.5 million by the SEC while Cheney was ceo over fraudulent accounting practices, or Halliburton getting a no bid contract to rebuild the oil infrastructure in Iraq, but I guess "BLAH BLAH BLAH Gay Marriage Terror Alert Elevated BLAH unpatriotic BLAH BLAH" is more important than the character of the vice president. From now on, I will only watch the American news channels to find out what is going on in America and the rest of the world.

Catching Bin Laden will not make America safer... this is what I think must be understood more than anything else... Bin Laden is not this James Bond style master villian in some huge high tech mountain lair, about to detonate the doomsday weapon... he is a hate monger and a religious bigot - his power if not in his deeds, but in the way he inspires hate in people who are lost and miserable, that he gives many poor and exploited Muslim's a scapegoat for their problems, a salvation for their future and a devil to blame their misery on... it seems to me that the last few years of his life have been directed towards making a martyr of himself... this is not a war of the old style when - with Hitler or the Emporer gone the will to fight is lost.. it is a crusade and the soldiers are almost to a man the people who have nothing to lose... the weapons of mass destruction are so great, so simple, that almost anyone can strike and cause terrible damage - so long as they do not fear the consequences.

I dont think Bin Laden is the real problem, he is a sympton of the real problem. Bringing wealth, social reform, socialist policies to the people of the middle east would do far more to weaken people like Bin Laden than bombs and missiles ever could... It is no accident that Saudi Arabia, where grotesque poverty and incredible wealth sit by side - is the place where the majority of these militants comes from.

I really don't think that Texas, of all places, can be considered a utopia of sanity and goodwill in the political world:

http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/...s.legislature/
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0514-07.htm

But to the point, I realize that every election divides people, how can one not? In my opinion, however, this election is very different from any other, certainly in recent memory, and maybe ever. The level of mistrust and hatred (which I'll admit is a subjective measure) is astronomical. Recall last election, people would say "Gore is too wooden, I don't like him" or "Bush is too conservative, I don't like him." Now flash forward and note that people are saying "Kerry is my only option, Bush may distroy the country" or "Bush is fantastic, he is saving the country." Now I think the difference in the strength of emotion and urgency of action of that rhetoric is readily aparent. We are divided, and more so than we have been since, maybe, desegrigation. And in my opinion, for the well being and yes, safety of our country, the next president needs to worry less about those "non-patriots" who oppose his various policies and more about doing what it takes to bring people together. As much as one may hate the right or the left, we are all from the United States and have to work together.

1) Ustwo while you are not as crass as saying something like Nano did about you and Rove, (and yes it was uncalled for), I have seen you bully demand facts while not giving any, call people names and argue for the sake of arguing. You are a troll and a flamer, who does nothing but spew and continue hate mongering.

2) You say you want to debate facts with me fine, but I can guarantee you'll be the first losing his cool and trying to intimidate while name calling and not giving any substantiated facts. We'll even find a neutral Mod/Admin to keep it fair. I've offered before and you as always when the confronted with facts and true challenges ignored it totally. Yet you keep crying about where my facts are.... Debate me, make both of us put up or shut up. But until you show your facts, I don't have to show mine, I usually do tho and then you ignore them.

3) Just because Ted Kennedy HELPED write the Education Bill does not mean that what he wrote and what was passed were the same 2 things.... or did you want to not acknowledge that fact so that you can keep crying over "but Ted Kennedy wrote the bill so you Dems can't cry." It's BS and you know it's BS because what passed and what Kennedy wrote are 2 totally different things. Want to debate the facts? open the thread show yours and I'll show mine. But you'll come up with an excuse (such as I should because I want the debate..... BS you keep harping on that subject I'm calling you on it).

This is not a personal attack. I don't know you personally and probably because of our differences wouldn't want to (I may respect your passion, but I do not respect the way you treat others opinions on here)... However, I'm tired of hearing you rant and rave and not give facts yet expect everyone who disagrees with you to. So what are you gonna do... keep crying for facts and ignore my offer or debate and let the chips fall where they will.

The first paragraph here failed the don't make it personal test.
It doesn't get much better after that.

I suppose it should be edited, but I do tire of doing what you folks should know enough to do yourselves.

It's time to chill out now.

I disagree. Catching Bin Laden will make American safer... just not safe. Capturing the most visible and perhaps the most wealthy financier of terrorism will undoubtedly make Americans safer.

I think the second portion of your post cited could be fertile with positive ideas... but i'm betting dollars to doughnuts we'll go in completely opposite directions on how to achieve those reforms.

Agreed.
You bring up a good point regarding financing. Arresting obl has the potential to uncover much about the financial workings of aq, et al. A good source of intelligence.

Bush DID work hand in hand with Dems here in Texas very well. Hence the uniter not divider speeches his first national election. Unfortunately as stated it didnt work that way at the national level. And about those dems running off instead of voting on something they were going to lose, they ALL lost credibility with the people here in Texas by even the stauchest Democratic voter. It's a long story with a longer back story and I'm not going to hijack this thread for it.