Mantus

The three laws:

1. A Republican may not injure a corporation, or, through inaction, allow a corporation to come to harm.

2. A Republican must obey the orders given it by corporations except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.

3. A Republican must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law.

above taken from www.billmon.org.

How do you guys feel about the current trend of conservative governments bending over for corporate interests?

I have always been worried about the amount of political power that corporations have today. Having absolutely no moral standards and the focus on just one thing – profit – they can pose a serious threat to a society if left unattended. The corporate track recorded is soiled with one terrible crime after another. Some one has to keep them in line and the Republicans have shown no interest in such endeavors.

ARTelevision

Corporations are one of the best institutions humans have come up with in the past 40,000 years. The list would be a very short one. Every institution humans create has its share of the problems that are inherent in human beings and human groups. For the most part, corporations do an excellent job of ensuring - in less potentially exploitive ways than the alternatives - property rights that can extend beyond concentrations of wealth in individuals. Corporations pay their employees and are bound by legislation and regulation. They drive research, development, and technology. They are a crucial part of our economic engine. Corporarations are well-worth protecting and assisting.

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kutulu

Art, are you sure you aren't an underpants gnome? Cause that sure sounded like the speech the south park boys gave...

In all seriousness I agree with Art for the most part. For all the crap we throw at corporations, our lives would not be nearly as easy without them. Who else is going to make our computers, gas, electricity, cars, etc?

On the other hand, they do value profits over people and need to be watched carefully. Their influence into US politics needs to be shut down. The government is not a tool for the corporations to use in order to increase their bottom line.

ARTelevision

absolutely, kutulu.

My decision to post on the up side of this question is based on the overwhelmingly bad press (and therefore bad public opinion) they receive in relation to the tons of bedrock good they do.

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98MustGT

So the laws recently passed that require the CEO to verify that the accounting practices were on the up and up otherwise he can face jail time was passed by someone other than republicans?

Mantus

Art, corporations are a double-edged sword. I agree with you that corporations are valuable to our society. Yet it is very important to remember that their only goal is profit. It is because of this goal that corporations find the most cost efficient routes of production thus supplying the consumers with essentials at the lowest possible price. Unfortunately in their strive for profit and efficiency they also tend to cut corners. It is at this point that they become a danger to society.

Government legislation is necessary to keep corporations from crossing the line and becoming a danger to society. I am aware that this line is very thin. Push corporations back too far and their profit margins collapse and they go out of business. Give them too much slack and they begin to utilize tactics that impact on human lives, environment and the economy.

With their only and only goal of profit it is only natural that corporation strive to control that which controls them – the government. This is to be expected. Unfortunately at the moment I feel that the scale has tipped in the corporate world’s favor. Which is dangerous for the well being of the consumer, the preservation of the environment and most importantly the health of our economy.



To put the economical impact into perspective here is a snipet form this article: http://www.commondreams.org/views03/1104-04.htm

ARTelevision

Mantus - well put.
I agree with most of what you say.

However to equate white-collar crime with the value of corporations is to equate armed-robbery with the value of cities. Places with high concentrations of people will have relatively high concentrations of illegal activity. I am 100% in favor of law enforcement and vigorously moving against crime and criminal activity.

As for the environment, my own view is that it is overprotected as far as the US is concerned and underprotected as far as developing nations are concerned. To whit, the Kyoto treaty - China is listed as a developing - and therefore, exempt - nation. The vast scale of environmental destruction wreaked by China upon its citizens and the world is well-known.

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theusername

Private corporations do not waste nearly as much money as do government programs and institutions. More Government = More waste. That's why I lean towards Republicans.

And those "rules" are pretty dumb since they're not necessarily true of Republicans and come from a fairly liberal web site. However, yes Republicans are friendlier to corporations than democrats thats undeniable.

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mml

Corporations are not inherently good or bad and if fact they fequently are both. (Walmart is a great example of this - providing millions of jobs and low prices for consumers allowing their money to go further but they are also notoriously bad about destoying local businesses and have a poor record on how they treat employees) We live in a capitalistic society, and corporations are a logical progression of capitalism. I think they play an important role in our society and their overall effect is positive.

That being said,

“There is an evil which ought to be guarded against in the indefinite accumulation of property from the capacity of holding it in perpetuity by … corporations. The power of all corporations ought to be limited in this respect. The growing wealth acquired by them never fails to be a source of abuses.”

--James Madison

The more and more I read Madison, the more impressed I am. (And to be fair, this comes from an essay on the power of the Church and how it hoards wealth)

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cthulu23

The argument that private institutions are ALWAYS more efficient than government ignores the rich history of profiteering and fraud that sometimes accompanies privitization. Witness Haliburton's overcharging the army for fuel, Enron's manipulation of the California energy market or a thousand other examples. Here in Louisiana, we've recently had a privatized juvenile detention facility shut down due to horrible abuses committed in the name of the profit motive.

As always, subjects of such complexity are not accurately summed up with binary logic. Is business more efficient then government? It depends....

hammer4all

I really, really wish people who think unaccountable private tyrannies (corporations) are all well and good would at least take the time to see the movie in my sig. It analysis the corporation as an institution and it is extremely well done and thought provoking.

kutulu

I don't think that anyone would confuse corporations with angels, but they are necessesary to our livestyles as we know it.

wilbjammin

The balance between raising the quality of life for the average U.S. citizens and world citizens and using corporate power to dominate the world politically and economically seems dangerously off-kilter to me. We're lucky in America right now, but with the trends as they are I don't know if there is more good or bad in our future.

My biggest worry is that the downward pressure on wages during times of inflation will eventually generate a need for such low paying jobs that we'll end up creating Free Trade Zones or an American equivalent. And I really don't know what can be done in 3rd world countries that are so crippled by debt that they can't do anything by let the IMF and World Bank restructure their economies to make enough capital to just pay off the interest (if that).

My main concern is creating a system of equity and a reasonable standard of living. I think that corporations should reasonably consider that a good standard of living for its workers creates more movement in the marketplace, generates more capital, and can create a sustainable economy... but the recent trend is to focus on short term gains and cutting costs.

I've heard several opinions on corporations recently. There is the pro-corporate efficient marketplace opinion, the reform the system to attempt to create some more equity but keep things basically the same opinion, and the opinion that the system should be radically reformed. My opinion is that the marketplace is very inefficient, that radically reforming the system is impossible, so that we're stuck with trying to make the best of what we've got.

I do personally enjoy some of the gains created by what corporations have done... computers, hi-tech musical equipment and manufactoring techniques that create flawless intonation and a much richer sound than what a human craftsman could make, access to worldwide media, mobility and communication, electricity, etc... I can't entirely in good faith reject capitalism and corporations because of this. I'll simply say that more should be done to regulate them and force them to use their resources in the public's best interest.

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hammer4all

Watch the movie.

analog

Every time I think of corporations and their ties with politics, I think of the following:

The corporation is like a big dog- there to guard us, our loved ones, our property, and ensure a good future by being strong and generally more reliable than the smaller, weaker dogs.

On the other hand, it has an agenda we might not agree with and might not be in our best interest. It steals food when we're not looking, and then shits all over the lawn.

Very much the double-edged sword. As a very average person, I can't really see how to even start correcting all the things I believe are fucked up with this country...

...this forum is one piece of proof that we will never want for opinions or ideas...

...but I think what we're really missing is the sense of community, involvement, and proactive patriotism (not just putting a flag on your truck, or slapping an "I support the troops" sticker on your SUV) that makes the "common man", or "average joe" like me stand up and say, "I want to make a difference", rather than remaining seated and yelling at my computer screen more about how I hate Bush.

I wonder how successful we all think we'll be just armchair-quarterbacking our politics like we are now. Keep in mind that the reason the "zealots" are always in the news, always trying to change things we don't want changed, is because they are actually fighting for something, and actually putting forth effort to make it happen.

VTBrian

I'd still take a handmade Mt. Vernon Bach over one of those factory made Bachs they have nowadays. Sometimes mass production isn't a good thing.

Seaver

Yeah, but the mass-made Bachs allow young kids to get into music. Later on if they decide that's what they want to do they can plop down the cash for it. But the mass-made products lower the price to reasonable.

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VTBrian

That is a good point. I don't play a bach, but my mass produced Yahmaha surved the same purpose untill I could beg my parents for a better horn.

ARTelevision

analog - absolutely!

Using politics as a soapbox puts one in the position of being a soap salesman.

At its best, Politics is the art of human beings seeking common ground for constructive progress.

That spirit is nascent here. It's how renaissances begin.

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