Kerry's speech............ AWESOME - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

pan6467 · 07-29-2004, 07:15 PM

Kerry's speech (as seen on C-Span, since I didn't want any interuptions in any form) was the knockout blow to Bush. Combined with Edwards' speech yeterday, Bush better be planning something HUGE or hope Kerry f's up ala Gary Hart before Nov.

I was worried he was another stiff like Gore, but he gave one hell of a speech and showed life and optimism and hope.

All I can say is Kerry will make a great president.

Journeyman · 07-29-2004, 07:19 PM

http://www.startribune.com/stories/587/4902000.html

Quote:

We are here tonight because we love our country.

We are proud of what America is and what it can become.

My fellow Americans, we are here tonight united in one simple purpose: to make America stronger at home and respected in the world.

A great American novelist wrote that you can't go home again. He could not have imagined this evening. Tonight, I am home. Home where my public life began and those who made it possible live. Home where our nation's history was written in blood, idealism, and hope. Home where my parents showed me the values of family, faith, and country.

Thank you, all of you, for a welcome home I will never forget.

I wish my parents could share this moment. They went to their rest in the last few years, but their example, their inspiration, their gift of open eyes, open mind, and endless world are bigger and more lasting than any words.

I was born in Colorado, in Fitzsimmons Army Hospital, when my dad was a pilot in World War II. Now, I'm not one to read into things, but guess which wing of the hospital the maternity ward was in? I'm not making this up. I was born in the West Wing!

My mother was the rock of our family, as so many mothers are. She stayed up late to help me do my homework. She sat by my bed when I was sick, and she answered the questions of a child who, like all children, found the world full of wonders and mysteries.

She was my den mother when I was a Cub Scout and she was so proud of her 50-year pin as a Girl Scout leader. She gave me her passion for the environment. She taught me to see trees as the cathedrals of nature. And by the power of her example, she showed me that we can and must finish the march toward full equality for all women in our country.

My dad did the things that a boy remembers. He gave me my first model airplane, my first baseball mitt and my first bicycle. He also taught me that we are here for something bigger than ourselves; he lived out the responsibilities and sacrifices of the greatest generation, to whom we owe so much.

When I was a young man, he was in the State Department, stationed in Berlin when it and the world were divided between democracy and communism. I have unforgettable memories of being a kid mesmerized by the British, French, and American troops, each of them guarding their own part of the city, and Russians standing guard on the stark line separating East from West. On one occasion, I rode my bike into Soviet East Berlin. And when I proudly told my dad, he promptly grounded me.

But what I learned has stayed with me for a lifetime. I saw how different life was on different sides of the same city. I saw the fear in the eyes of people who were not free. I saw the gratitude of people toward the United States for all that we had done. I felt goose bumps as I got off a military train and heard the Army band strike up ``Stars and Stripes Forever.'' I learned what it meant to be America at our best. I learned the pride of our freedom. And I am determined now to restore that pride to all who look to America.

Mine were greatest generation parents. And as I thank them, we all join together to thank that whole generation for making America strong, for winning World War II, winning the Cold War, and for the great gift of service which brought America fifty years of peace and prosperity.

My parents inspired me to serve, and when I was a junior in high school, John Kennedy called my generation to service. It was the beginning of a great journey, a time to march for civil rights, for voting rights, for the environment, for women, and for peace. We believed we could change the world. And you know what? We did.

But we're not finished. The journey isn't complete. The march isn't over. The promise isn't perfected. Tonight, we're setting out again. And together, we're going to write the next great chapter of America's story.

We have it in our power to change the world again. But only if we're true to our ideals and that starts by telling the truth to the American people. That is my first pledge to you tonight. As President, I will restore trust and credibility to the White House.

I ask you to judge me by my record: As a young prosecutor, I fought for victims' rights and made prosecuting violence against women a priority. When I came to the Senate, I broke with many in my own party to vote for a balanced budget, because I thought it was the right thing to do. I fought to put a 100,000 cops on the street.

And then I reached across the aisle to work with John McCain, to find the truth about our POWs and missing in action, and to finally make peace with Vietnam.

I will be a commander in chief who will never mislead us into war. I will have a vice president who will not conduct secret meetings with polluters to rewrite our environmental laws. I will have a secretary of Defense who will listen to the best advice of our military leaders. And I will appoint an Attorney General who actually upholds the Constitution of the United States.

My fellow Americans, this is the most important election of our lifetime. The stakes are high. We are a nation at war, a global war on terror against an enemy unlike any we have ever known before. And here at home, wages are falling, health care costs are rising, and our great middle class is shrinking. People are working weekends; they're working two jobs, three jobs, and they're still not getting ahead.

We're told that outsourcing jobs is good for America. We're told that new jobs that pay $9,000 less than the jobs that have been lost is the best we can do. They say this is the best economy we've ever had. And they say that anyone who thinks otherwise is a pessimist. Well, here is our answer: There is nothing more pessimistic than saying America can't do better.

We can do better and we will. We're the optimists. For us, this is a country of the future. We're the can do people. And let's not forget what we did in the 1990s. We balanced the budget. We paid down the debt. We created 23 million new jobs. We lifted millions out of poverty and we lifted the standard of living for the middle class. We just need to believe in ourselves and we can do it again.

So tonight, in the city where America's freedom began, only a few blocks from where the sons and daughters of liberty gave birth to our nation, here tonight, on behalf of a new birth of freedom, on behalf of the middle class who deserve a champion, and those struggling to join it who deserve a fair shot, for the brave men and women in uniform who risk their lives every day and the families who pray for their return, for all those who believe our best days are ahead of us, for all of you with great faith in the American people, I accept your nomination for President of the United States.

I am proud that at my side will be a running mate whose life is the story of the American dream and who's worked every day to make that dream real for all Americans: Senator John Edwards of North Carolina, and his wonderful wife Elizabeth and their family. This son of a mill worker is ready to lead and next January, Americans will be proud to have a fighter for the middle class to succeed Dick Cheney as Vice President of the United States.

And what can I say about Teresa? She has the strongest moral compass of anyone I know. She's down to earth, nurturing, courageous, wise and smart. She speaks her mind and she speaks the truth, and I love her for that, too. And that's why America will embrace her as the next First Lady of the United States.

For Teresa and me, no matter what the future holds or the past has given us, nothing will ever mean as much as our children. We love them not just for who they are and what they've become, but for being themselves, making us laugh, holding our feet to the fire, and never letting me get away with anything. Thank you, Andre, Alex, Chris, Vanessa, and John.

And in this journey, I am accompanied by an extraordinary band of brothers led by that American hero, a patriot named Max Cleland. Our band of brothers doesn't march together because of who we are as veterans, but because of what we learned as soldiers. We fought for this nation because we loved it and we came back with the deep belief that every day is extra. We may be a little older now, we may be a little grayer, but we still know how to fight for our country.

And standing with us in that fight are those who shared with me the long season of the primary campaign: Carol Moseley Braun, General Wesley Clark, Howard Dean, Dick Gephardt, Bob Graham, Dennis Kucinich, Joe Lieberman and Al Sharpton.

To all of you, I say thank you for teaching me and testing me but mostly, we say thank you for standing up for our country and giving us the unity to move America forward.

My fellow Americans, the world tonight is very different from the world of four years ago. But I believe the American people are more than equal to the challenge.

Remember the hours after Sept. 11, when we came together as one to answer the attack against our homeland. We drew strength when our firefighters ran up the stairs and risked their lives, so that others might live. When rescuers rushed into smoke and fire at the Pentagon. When the men and women of Flight 93 sacrificed themselves to save our nation's Capitol. When flags were hanging from front porches all across America, and strangers became friends. It was the worst day we have ever seen, but it brought out the best in all of us.

I am proud that after Sept. 11 all our people rallied to President Bush's call for unity to meet the danger. There were no Democrats. There were no Republicans. There were only Americans. How we wish it had stayed that way.

Now I know there are those who criticize me for seeing complexities and I do because some issues just aren't all that simple. Saying there are weapons of mass destruction in Iraq doesn't make it so. Saying we can fight a war on the cheap doesn't make it so. And proclaiming mission accomplished certainly doesn't make it so.

As President, I will ask hard questions and demand hard evidence. I will immediately reform the intelligence system so policy is guided by facts, and facts are never distorted by politics. And as President, I will bring back this nation's time-honored tradition: the United States of America never goes to war because we want to, we only go to war because we have to.

I know what kids go through when they are carrying an M-16 in a dangerous place and they can't tell friend from foe. I know what they go through when they're out on patrol at night and they don't know what's coming around the next bend. I know what it's like to write letters home telling your family that everything's all right when you're not sure that's true.

As President, I will wage this war with the lessons I learned in war. Before you go to battle, you have to be able to look a parent in the eye and truthfully say: ``I tried everything possible to avoid sending your son or daughter into harm's way. But we had no choice. We had to protect the American people, fundamental American values from a threat that was real and imminent.'' So lesson one, this is the only justification for going to war.

And on my first day in office, I will send a message to every man and woman in our armed forces: You will never be asked to fight a war without a plan to win the peace.

I know what we have to do in Iraq. We need a president who has the credibility to bring our allies to our side and share the burden, reduce the cost to American taxpayers, and reduce the risk to American soldiers. That's the right way to get the job done and bring our troops home.

Here is the reality: that won't happen until we have a president who restores America's respect and leadership - so we don't have to go it alone in the world.

And we need to rebuild our alliances, so we can get the terrorists before they get us.

I defended this country as a young man and I will defend it as President. Let there be no mistake: I will never hesitate to use force when it is required. Any attack will be met with a swift and certain response. I will never give any nation or international institution a veto over our national security. And I will build a stronger American military.

We will add 40,000 active duty troops, not in Iraq, but to strengthen American forces that are now overstretched, overextended, and under pressure. We will double our special forces to conduct anti-terrorist operations. We will provide our troops with the newest weapons and technology to save their lives and win the battle. And we will end the backdoor draft of National Guard and reservists.

To all who serve in our armed forces today, I say, help is on the way.

As President, I will fight a smarter, more effective war on terror. We will deploy every tool in our arsenal: our economic as well as our military might; our principles as well as our firepower.

In these dangerous days there is a right way and a wrong way to be strong. Strength is more than tough words. After decades of experience in national security, I know the reach of our power and I know the power of our ideals.

We need to make America once again a beacon in the world. We need to be looked up to and not just feared.

We need to lead a global effort against nuclear proliferation to keep the most dangerous weapons in the world out of the most dangerous hands in the world.

We need a strong military and we need to lead strong alliances. And then, with confidence and determination, we will be able to tell the terrorists: You will lose and we will win. The future doesn't belong to fear; it belongs to freedom.

And the front lines of this battle are not just far away they're right here on our shores, at our airports, and potentially in any town or city. Today, our national security begins with homeland security. The 9/11 Commission has given us a path to follow, endorsed by Democrats, Republicans, and the 9/11 families. As president, I will not evade or equivocate; I will immediately implement the recommendations of that commission. We shouldn't be letting 95 percent of container ships come into our ports without ever being physically inspected. We shouldn't be leaving our nuclear and chemical plants without enough protection. And we shouldn't be opening firehouses in Baghdad and closing them down in the United States of America.

And tonight, we have an important message for those who question the patriotism of Americans who offer a better direction for our country. Before wrapping themselves in the flag and shutting their eyes and ears to the truth, they should remember what America is really all about. They should remember the great idea of freedom for which so many have given their lives. Our purpose now is to reclaim democracy itself. We are here to affirm that when Americans stand up and speak their minds and say America can do better, that is not a challenge to patriotism; it is the heart and soul of patriotism.

You see that flag up there. We call her Old Glory. The stars and stripes forever. I fought under that flag, as did so many of you here and all across our country. That flag flew from the gun turret right behind my head. It was shot through and through and tattered, but it never ceased to wave in the wind. It draped the caskets of men I served with and friends I grew up with. For us, that flag is the most powerful symbol of who we are and what we believe in. Our strength. Our diversity. Our love of country. All that makes America both great and good.

That flag doesn't belong to any president. It doesn't belong to any ideology and it doesn't belong to any political party. It belongs to all the American people.

My fellow citizens, elections are about choices. And choices are about values. In the end, it's not just policies and programs that matter; the president who sits at that desk must be guided by principle.

For four years, we've heard a lot of talk about values. But values spoken without actions taken are just slogans. Values are not just words. They're what we live by. They're about the causes we champion and the people we fight for. And it is time for those who talk about family values to start valuing families.

You don't value families by kicking kids out of after-school programs and taking cops off our streets, so that Enron can get another tax break.

We believe in the family value of caring for our children and protecting the neighborhoods where they walk and play.

And that is the choice in this election.

You don't value families by denying real prescription drug coverage to seniors, so big drug companies can get another windfall.

We believe in the family value expressed in one of the oldest Commandments: ``Honor thy father and thy mother.'' As President, I will not privatize Social Security. I will not cut benefits. And together, we will make sure that senior citizens never have to cut their pills in half because they can't afford lifesaving medicine.

And that is the choice in this election.

You don't value families if you force them to take up a collection to buy body armor for a son or daughter in the service, if you deny veterans health care, or if you tell middle class families to wait for a tax cut, so that the wealthiest among us can get even more.

We believe in the value of doing what's right for everyone in the American family.

And that is the choice in this election.

We believe that what matters most is not narrow appeals masquerading as values, but the shared values that show the true face of America. Not narrow appeals that divide us, but shared values that unite us. Family and faith. Hard work and responsibility. Opportunity for all so that every child, every parent, every worker has an equal shot at living up to their God-given potential.

What does it mean in America today when Dave McCune, a steel worker I met in Canton, Ohio, saw his job sent overseas and the equipment in his factory literally unbolted, crated up, and shipped thousands of miles away along with that job? What does it mean when workers I've met had to train their foreign replacements?

America can do better. So tonight we say: help is on the way.

What does it mean when Mary Ann Knowles, a woman with breast cancer I met in New Hampshire, had to keep working day after day right through her chemotherapy, no matter how sick she felt, because she was terrified of losing her family's health insurance?

America can do better. And help is on the way.

What does it mean when Deborah Kromins from Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, works and saves all her life only to find out that her pension has disappeared into thin air and the executive who looted it has bailed out on a golden parachute?

America can do better. And help is on the way.

What does it mean when 25 percent of the children in Harlem have asthma because of air pollution?

America can do better. And help is on the way.

What does it mean when people are huddled in blankets in the cold, sleeping in Lafayette Park on the doorstep of the White House itself and the number of families living in poverty has risen by three million in the last four years?

America can do better. And help is on the way.

And so we come here tonight to ask: Where is the conscience of our country?

I'll tell you where it is: it's in rural and small town America; it's in urban neighborhoods and suburban main streets; it's alive in the people I've met in every part of this land. It's bursting in the hearts of Americans who are determined to give our country back its values and its truth.

We value jobs that pay you more, not less, than you earned before. We value jobs where, when you put in a week's work, you can actually pay your bills, provide for your children, and lift up the quality of your life. We value an America where the middle class is not being squeezed, but doing better.

So here is our economic plan to build a stronger America:

First, new incentives to revitalize manufacturing.

Second, investment in technology and innovation that will create the good-paying jobs of the future.

Third, close the tax loopholes that reward companies for shipping our jobs overseas. Instead, we will reward companies that create and keep good paying jobs where they belong: in the good old U.S.A.

We value an America that exports products, not jobs and we believe American workers should never have to subsidize the loss of their own job.

Next, we will trade and compete in the world. But our plan calls for a fair playing field because if you give the American worker a fair playing field, there's nobody in the world the American worker can't compete against.

And we're going to return to fiscal responsibility, because it is the foundation of our economic strength. Our plan will cut the deficit in half in four years by ending tax giveaways that are nothing more than corporate welfare and will make government live by the rule that every family has to follow: pay as you go.

And let me tell you what we won't do: we won't raise taxes on the middle class. You've heard a lot of false charges about this in recent months. So let me say straight out what I will do as President: I will cut middle class taxes. I will reduce the tax burden on small business. And I will roll back the tax cuts for the wealthiest individuals who make over $200,000 a year, so we can invest in job creation, health care and education.

Our education plan for a stronger America sets high standards and demands accountability from parents, teachers, and schools. It provides for smaller class sizes and treats teachers like the professionals they are. And it gives a tax credit to families for each and every year of college.

When I was a prosecutor, I met young kids who were in trouble, abandoned by adults. And as President, I am determined that we stop being a nation content to spend $50,000 a year to keep a young person in prison for the rest of their life when we could invest $10,000 to give them Head Start, Early Start, Smart Start, the best possible start in life.

And we value health care that's affordable and accessible for all Americans.

Since 2000, four million people have lost their health insurance. Millions more are struggling to afford it.

You know what's happening. Your premiums, your co-payments, your deductibles have all gone through the roof.

Our health care plan for a stronger America cracks down on the waste, greed, and abuse in our health care system and will save families up to $1,000 a year on their premiums. You'll get to pick your own doctor and patients and doctors, not insurance company bureaucrats, will make medical decisions. Under our plan, Medicare will negotiate lower drug prices for seniors. And all Americans will be able to buy less expensive prescription drugs from countries like Canada.

The story of people struggling for health care is the story of so many Americans. But you know what, it's not the story of senators and members of Congress. Because we give ourselves great health care and you get the bill. Well, I'm here to say, your family's health care is just as important as any politician's in Washington, D.C.

And when I'm President, America will stop being the only advanced nation in the world which fails to understand that health care is not a privilege for the wealthy, the connected, and the elected - it is a right for all Americans.

We value an America that controls its own destiny because it's finally and forever independent of Mideast oil. What does it mean for our economy and our national security when we only have three percent of the world's oil reserves, yet we rely on foreign countries for fifty-three percent of what we consume?

I want an America that relies on its own ingenuity and innovation, not the Saudi royal family.

And our energy plan for a stronger America will invest in new technologies and alternative fuels and the cars of the future - so that no young American in uniform will ever be held hostage to our dependence on oil from the Middle East.

I've told you about our plans for the economy, for education, for health care, for energy independence. I want you to know more about them. So now I'm going to say something that Franklin Roosevelt could never have said in his acceptance speech: go to johnkerry.com.

I want to address these next words directly to President George W. Bush: In the weeks ahead, let's be optimists, not just opponents. Let's build unity in the American family, not angry division. Let's honor this nation's diversity; let's respect one another; and let's never misuse for political purposes the most precious document in American history, the Constitution of the United States.

My friends, the high road may be harder, but it leads to a better place. And that's why Republicans and Democrats must make this election a contest of big ideas, not small-minded attacks. This is our time to reject the kind of politics calculated to divide race from race, group from group, region from region. Maybe some just see us divided into red states and blue states, but I see us as one America red, white, and blue. And when I am President, the government I lead will enlist people of talent, Republicans as well as Democrats, to find the common ground so that no one who has something to contribute will be left on the sidelines.

And let me say it plainly: in that cause, and in this campaign, we welcome people of faith. America is not us and them. I think of what Ron Reagan said of his father a few weeks ago, and I want to say this to you tonight: I don't wear my own faith on my sleeve. But faith has given me values and hope to live by, from Vietnam to this day, from Sunday to Sunday. I don't want to claim that God is on our side. As Abraham Lincoln told us, I want to pray humbly that we are on God's side. And whatever our faith, one belief should bind us all: The measure of our character is our willingness to give of ourselves for others and for our country.

These aren't Democratic values. These aren't Republican values. They're American values. We believe in them. They're who we are. And if we honor them, if we believe in ourselves, we can build an America that's stronger at home and respected in the world.

So much promise stretches before us. Americans have always reached for the impossible, looked to the next horizon, and asked: What if?

Two young bicycle mechanics from Dayton asked, what if this airplane could take off at Kitty Hawk? It did that and changed the world forever. A young president asked, what if we could go to the moon in ten years? And now we're exploring the solar system and the stars themselves. A young generation of entrepreneurs asked, what if we could take all the information in a library and put it on a little chip the size of a fingernail? We did, and that too changed the world forever.

And now it's our time to ask: What if?

What if we find a breakthrough to cure Parkinson's, diabetes, Alzheimer's and AIDs? What if we have a president who believes in science, so we can unleash the wonders of discovery like stem cell research to treat illness and save millions of lives?

What if we do what adults should do and make sure all our children are safe in the afternoons after school? And what if we have a leadership that's as good as the American dream so that bigotry and hatred never again steal the hope and future of any American?

I learned a lot about these values on that gunboat patrolling the Mekong Delta with young Americans who came from places as different as Iowa and Oregon, Arkansas, Florida and California. No one cared where we went to school. No one cared about our race or our backgrounds. We were literally all in the same boat. We looked out, one for the other and we still do.

That is the kind of America I will lead as President: an America where we are all in the same boat.

Never has there been a more urgent moment for Americans to step up and define ourselves. I will work my heart out. But, my fellow citizens, the outcome is in your hands more than mine.

It is time to reach for the next dream. It is time to look to the next horizon. For America, the hope is there. The sun is rising. Our best days are still to come.

Goodnight, God bless you, and God bless America.

It's true. He can be more animated then he seems.

Sparhawk · 07-29-2004, 07:33 PM

Home Run. My favorite part:

"And let me say it plainly: in that cause, and in this campaign, we welcome people of faith. America is not us and them. I think of what Ron Reagan said of his father a few weeks ago, and I want to say this to you tonight: I don't wear my own faith on my sleeve. But faith has given me values and hope to live by, from Vietnam to this day, from Sunday to Sunday. I don't want to claim that God is on our side. As Abraham Lincoln told us, I want to pray humbly that we are on God's side. And whatever our faith, one belief should bind us all: The measure of our character is our willingness to give of ourselves for others and for our country."

Seaver · 07-29-2004, 08:01 PM

Nice rhetoric, no substance.

Nothing in the way of HOW he plans to do anything.

hannukah harry · 07-29-2004, 08:25 PM

because after all, in a 10-15 minute speech, he should outline in detail exactly how he's gonna do all the things he's said are his goals.

why do i have the feeling that even if he did give a point by point description of what he would be doing, you (or some other repub) would still say that?

Jeff · 07-29-2004, 08:32 PM

It WAS pretty impressive.

Obama, Sharpton, and Kerry all gave some stunning speeches.

Arsenic7 · 07-29-2004, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Seaver
Nice rhetoric, no substance.

Nothing in the way of HOW he plans to do anything.

It's just an acceptance speech, dude.

And I doubt either side will get much into the specifics.. How much are you guys willing to wager that the gay marriage amendment won't get so much as a peep out of the president and Kerry in the next several months.

hiredgun · 07-29-2004, 08:49 PM

I missed it on television, but from the text of the speech it looks solid. I've heard that Kerry's delivery was better than it ever has been, I wish I'd seen him give it: does anyone have a video link?

assilem · 07-29-2004, 08:53 PM

It was not as big as I thought it could have been.

This was supposed to be the speech to define himself and inspire America. I found "Beautiful Day" by U2, his closing song, more inspirational than the speech itself. He was all over the place and sweating at the same time. He fell flat for me and by looking at the audience I guess they felt the same way. Despite a couple of red meat moments they were falling asleep. It just seemed like a cookie cutter democratic speech, which may play to the converted, but what about the millions of swing voters. I don't think this will have much of an effect on them.

He did mention a vague platform but did not go into any detail. Bill Clinton was always great at presenting a plan and explaining it in immense detail. I just felt as if he just blew through the thing.

It paled in comparison to Barack Obama's and Bill Clinton's speech. I guess I am saying that I wanted to be impressed enough to want to vote for him but I was not. I think I can sum it up with three words:

Pandering
Platitudinal
Presumptuous

IMO

I'd like to hear from cthulu23 and tecoyah on this... as well as all of the other distinguished TPF'ers

mml · 07-29-2004, 10:36 PM

An amazingly written speech that was delivered well. I loved what was said, but Kerry just couldn't deliver a home run.

That being said, it was better than I had really hoped it would be. In fact, even Pat Buchanan loved the speech. Kerry needed to slow things down and let the crowd take control and if he had (which is something he has problems doing) this could have been one of the best acceptance speeches ever. It was clearly an A+ speech , but I would give Kerry a B+/A- delivery.

I truly believe that the debates will have a profound effect on this election. My concern is that Kerry is considered a top notch debater so he will be presumed to win, but in reality Bush has an amazing ability to connect with people and even if he puts forth an average performance, it may be considered a victory for him.

hammer4all · 07-30-2004, 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by hiredgun
I missed it on television, but from the text of the speech it looks solid. I've heard that Kerry's delivery was better than it ever has been, I wish I'd seen him give it: does anyone have a video link?

http://www.c-span.org/

Assilem: I honestly don't know what speech you saw, but during the speech I saw, the crowd was quite active and engaged the whole time.

Mml: He did rush the applause a little. I think he was trying to keep the speech within the 1-hour network time slot.

*edit* BTW, I thought the speech was excellent--much better than I was expecting.

clockworkgreen · 07-30-2004, 02:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by assilem
and by looking at the audience I guess they felt the same way.

And here's where I just stopped reading.

scout · 07-30-2004, 03:08 AM

It seemed to me that it was another atypical political speech. A whole lotta promises with very little substance on the actual issues, more vote pandering than anything else. Most of the "promises" have very little if any chance of actually making it through both houses to become law.

jcookc6 · 07-30-2004, 03:34 AM

OK boys and girls, WHO IS GOING TO PAY FOR ALL OF THESE THINGS? You can't get all of this money for these programs just from rolling back "Bush Tax Cuts", so the money will have to come from some other type of TAX.
How is he going get through his first day in office? He promised to do so much on his first day, that he will need a 72 hour day.
As usual, the same Kerry bullshit we in Massachusetts have heard for years.

highthief · 07-30-2004, 04:17 AM

Didn't see it, but reading the text it's a solid speech. He should talk more - he's not Clinton or Reagan in terms of public speaking, but he'll win any competition with Bush on the dias or in front of the camera.

Kadath · 07-30-2004, 04:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by scout
It seemed to me that it was another atypical political speech. A whole lotta promises with very little substance on the actual issues, more vote pandering than anything else. Most of the "promises" have very little if any chance of actually making it through both houses to become law.

Do you mean typical? "Atypical" means not typical.

Quote:

Originally posted by jcookc6
OK boys and girls, WHO IS GOING TO PAY FOR ALL OF THESE THINGS? You can't get all of this money for these programs just from rolling back "Bush Tax Cuts", so the money will have to come from some other type of TAX.
How is he going get through his first day in office? He promised to do so much on his first day, that he will need a 72 hour day.
As usual, the same Kerry bullshit we in Massachusetts have heard for years.

Yeah, he's going to raise taxes. That's what Democrats do. We pay for things. Taxes are the price we pay for living in a civilized society. -- Oliver Wendell Holmes
And he will need time to do what he's said he's going to do, so you can bet he won't go on vacation as much as Bush had -- he'll actually work.

wraithhibn · 07-30-2004, 07:11 AM

Half of his speech sounded like a Bush speech, not a Kerry speech. When did he turn so hawkish all the sudden? The only really standout part of his speech was the salute at the beginning, not much of the substance stood out.

assilem · 07-30-2004, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by hammer4all
assilem: I honestly don't know what speech you saw, but during the speech I saw, the crowd was quite active and engaged the whole time.

I watched it on MSNBC and when they would show the crowd it looked as if they all had somewhere better to be. And then all of the sudden he would say "free health care" or something to that effect and they would start cheering. I'm just telling you what I saw.

balderdash111 · 07-30-2004, 07:19 AM

Let me start by saying I plan to vote for Kerry, unless he suddenly proclaims his life-long admiration for the social policies of Adolf Hitler or something.

That said, I was very disappointed by the speech.

A whole lot of discussion of unity, etc. and except for a few specific points (tax cuts, messing with the constitution, health care and many jabs about being truthful and full of integrity), not very clear on how he's offering something different from the Republicans.

Let's look at the intelligence issue, for example. Both sides are now saying they want to revamp the intelligence apparatus based on the 9/11 report. No big difference there, but Kerry made a big point about how he plans to do that in his speech.

He also made a big point about being careful when going to war, drawing an implied (and I think accurate) contrast with the current administration. But don't you think the current admin will be more careful too? Can you imagine the fall-out if they did the same thing (say, to Iran or North Korea) AGAIN?

I was also unimpressed by the delivery. He was sweating a good deal (enough to get through the make-up and shine under the lights anyway), and he had this weird habit of sort of shifting from one side to the other (insert Republican ad hominem attack here) as he talked. Sort of like he was doing a little march in place at times. It was a little unsettling.

On Monday night, when Bill Clinton was walking out to HUGE applause , someone on CNN blurted out "and this is why he's on Monday." Don't know if it was meant for air (I didn't think so at the time) but it was a good point - Clinton is SO much better at this than Kerry is, that had they been the same night, Kerry would have looked terrible.

Kerry's just not that good at the Big Speech thing. (Bush the First had the problem with the Vision thing, Clinton had the Blowjob thing, and Bush the Second had the Iraq thing).

Again, I'm going to vote for him, barring a disaster, but I really was disappointed with the performance.

Oh, and to try to answer jcook's question, I think he plans to increase revenues a couple of ways - roll back the tax cuts, eliminate or reduce so-called "corporate welfare" and other tax loopholes (he mentioned outsourcing tax benefits, but I don't know what they are, exactly) and, implicitly, raise taxes on those who make over $200k a year.

*edit*

And by the way, I have to agree with those who said they didn't think the crowd was loving the speech. Sure they applauded on the various points, but there weren't the kind of wild cheers you sometimes see at these things.

That said, is Bush going to do any better? I really doubt it.

Wax_off · 07-30-2004, 08:03 AM

I think assilem hit it on the head. Not a great speach by any means. Halfway through a friend and I were chatting about other stuff. Sure, he hit some good points, but I tuned out a good portion.

That was not true of Obama's speach, or Clinton's or even Clark's. Hell, even Sharpton did better. Maybe they had easier messages to deliver though.

I'm still voting for him, but I wasn't all inspired by this speach. I'll wait for the debates.

98MustGT · 07-30-2004, 08:31 AM

I think Kerry meant to say he is going to increase the taxes on those making 20,000 a year or more not 200,00 a year.

According to the GAO for 2001...

Top 5% pay 53.25% of all income taxes .
The top 10% pay 64.89%
The top 25% pay 82.9%
The top 50% pay 96.03%
The bottom 50%? They pay a paltry 3.97% of all income taxes.

matteo101 · 07-30-2004, 08:51 AM

For asselim, the speach got two dozen standing ovations, and Kerry could barely start talking on atleast 5 occasions. Not really a croud that doesnt look like they wanted to be there, infact I thought the "vibe" in the fleet center was pretty incredible. Everyone from cnn and cbs, were asking eachother if the people at home could feel the energy as much as the people in the floor or in the stands. They said it was incredible.

Anyways, I thought the speach was well written, and well spoken as well. I think he tried his very best to deliver the speach as well as he possibly could, and you could tell by his persperation that he truelly was giving it his all. He looked nervous at the begining, but everytime he got a big applaud I think he got more confidence, and I think he did a good job. I think this speach if anything, will give Kerry confidence for the rest of his campaign.

Does anyone know when the debates are??

kutulu · 07-30-2004, 09:05 AM

It was a nice speech but it's just a speech. Like most big speeches, he probably didn't write it (how many Presidents and pres candidates actually write their own speeches?). To me it's just words.

I'm still voting for him though.

Wax_off · 07-30-2004, 09:12 AM

He got two dozen standing ovations because that was what was expected. If he had been making fart noises with his hands he probably would have gotten at least a dozen standing ovations. (a bit of hyperbole)

He could barely start talking because he was running over the applause. If had waited for it a few seconds longer the speach would have been much better.

It was mostly about making a big speach in front of the party faithful. Of course they're going to cheer and clap. But it wasn't a great speach, just a passable one. Wait until Bush makes his acceptance speach, then you'll see real enthusiasm and energy. I'm not a fan of the guy, but he does know how to whip a crowd up, kinda revival style. People will be passing out in the aisles and speaking in tounges.

matteo101 · 07-30-2004, 09:38 AM

Oh God, I can't wait to see Bush, and what he has to say. I honestly cannot see that guy really saying anything of relevence.
"Yeah, we screwed over america, we screwed over the economy, we screwed over the working class, we screwed over health care, education, we rely on foreign oil, we invaded Iraq because of that depedance, BUT I THIS TIME IT WILL BE BETTER, I AM HERE TO UNITE US, I AM HERE BECAUSE I BROUGHT US CLOSER AFTER SEPTEMBER 11'TH AND USED THAT TRUST TO SCREW YOU ALL, MUAHAHAHAHAHA..VOTE FOR ME!!!!!!!!"

Flyguy · 07-30-2004, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 98MustGT
I think Kerry meant to say he is going to increase the taxes on those making 20,000 a year or more not 200,00 a year.

According to the GAO for 2001...

Top 5% pay 53.25% of all income taxes .
The top 10% pay 64.89%
The top 25% pay 82.9%
The top 50% pay 96.03%
The bottom 50%? They pay a paltry 3.97% of all income taxes.

Get me the nubmers for 2003. Mabye then I'll pay attention.

reconmike · 07-30-2004, 09:48 AM

Every time Kerry opened his mouth I felt his hand on my wallet.

Where the hell is all this money coming from for all these hand-outs?

It was such a love-fest it was really sickening. I was waiting for the love beads and tamburines to break out.

None of his points struck me as productive, in fact it was quite the oppisite. We can do better and hope is the great rallying cry of the underachiver. Since you cant or wont do it we must help you.
The so called great dem president JFK said 'ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country".

kutulu · 07-30-2004, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 98MustGT
I think Kerry meant to say he is going to increase the taxes on those making 20,000 a year or more not 200,00 a year.

According to the GAO for 2001...

Top 5% pay 53.25% of all income taxes .
The top 10% pay 64.89%
The top 25% pay 82.9%
The top 50% pay 96.03%
The bottom 50%? They pay a paltry 3.97% of all income taxes.

People love floating those numbers but they never give a breakdown of how much total money each group made.

The bottom 50% makes less than 20k per year. How much can you expect to get from those people? Why not give them all their money back. They are the ones who are struggling the most. If its really only 3.97% than the govt can afford it before they give cuts to other people.

98MustGT · 07-30-2004, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by kutulu
People love floating those numbers but they never give a breakdown of how much total money each group made.

The bottom 50% makes less than 20k per year. How much can you expect to get from those people? Why not give them all their money back. They are the ones who are struggling the most. If its really only 3.97% than the govt can afford it before they give cuts to other people.

People under 20,000 with kids get back more than they put it. A Negative tax rate. Its called Earned Income Tax Credit, can add up to over 4,000 a year.

Delvid · 07-30-2004, 11:02 AM

Like the speech or not he did a great job of burning Asscroft.

scout · 07-30-2004, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by kutulu
The bottom 50% makes less than 20k per year. How much can you expect to get from those people? Why not give them all their money back. They are the ones who are struggling the most. If its really only 3.97% than the govt can afford it before they give cuts to other people.

If they happen to work and pay any taxes they already pretty much get all their money back plus several thousand more from the earned income credit, head of household credit and credits for all their dependants. How much more do you think we should give them on top of medicaid, free housing, food stamps and all the other benefits they get for being a lazy baby-makin' POS? Shoot the poor in this country have it better than most working class people because they qualify for all the government handouts, whereas the working poor make to much to qualify for government assistance. Then to add insult to injury the democrats are telling them to hope for a better life, hope that help is on the way, hope this and hope that. What kinda crap is that?
On a personal note, I'm sick to death of both parties. They are both full of crap and neither one is any better than the other. Both sides of this election is full of shit. One just has to decide which is the lesser of the two evils, which in my opinion it's the Republican side at the moment. At least I know what we've got and there's no surprises. With Kerry you don't know what your gonna get or which side of the issue he's gonna wake up and be on in the morning.

Thanks Kabath for the correction, I did mean typical. Sorry for any confusion my poor choice of wording created.

Sun Tzu · 07-30-2004, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Seaver
Nice rhetoric, no substance.

Nothing in the way of HOW he plans to do anything.

In his defense; he does comment on that. He mentions his website being the way to find out the details of the hows. I still dont know whether I'll vote for him or waste my vote on Badnarik.

kutulu · 07-30-2004, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by scout
How much more do you think we should give them on top of medicaid, free housing, food stamps and all the other benefits they get for being a lazy baby-makin' POS?

I don't think you're being realistic about the system. Our economic system is a pyramid. The masses at the bottom work near slave wages so that the people at the top can stay up there. The people at the top would not be there if we didn't have the people at the bottom to do the manual labor at shit wages.

Go ahead and call them babymaking POS's but if they weren't making babies, who would be the base of our economic pyramid in the future?

It's obvious that there is a minimum amount of money needed to survive, its obvious that the top 1% are the owners of the corporations that are paying the slave wages to the bottom 50%, it's also obvious that 20k/yr is not enough money to pay rent, medical bills, car payments, car insurance, electricity and food. Unless the rich are going to pay the poor enough so that they will be able to support themselves fully, the rich are going to have to supplement the poor somehow. Otherwise, pyramid isn't going to stand without its base.

So the filthy masses get reduced cost housing, is it nice housing? Do they have a big house and a nice backyard or is it in crime-infested areas? They get food stamps, are they buying fillet and lobster with the food stamps or ramen noodles? Are they buying flat screen HDTVs with the tax credits and taking lavish vacations or are they still just barely scraping by?

Again, what percentage of the total income earned is made by the top 5%?

powerclown · 07-30-2004, 11:40 AM

Kerry and his reaching out to the world crap, rebuilding alliances.
Kerry voted in favor of giving Bush (congressional) support to go to war, in spite of France, Russia, et al...HE VOTED IN FAVOR OF GOING TO WAR!

Edwards pointing out to us that there are two America's; one for the filthy rich (like himself and kerry) and one for the rest of us (which got idiotic Huge Applause)...that ALLLLLLLLLLL americans deserve the kind of health care that Senate members and their families get...please!

Kerry dredging up all his old 'vietnam buddies' from a war that he was against, presumably so he could appear "tough" on foreign policy.

So disingenuous, so many lies....nothing of substance. Such an insult to the intelligence of regular people.
Bush is no better.
This election is so depressing.

filtherton · 07-30-2004, 11:45 AM

I love how kerry gets accused of stealing the money of the american people. I guess many would prefer the bush plan: stealing money from our children by way of record deficits plus tax cuts for those who need it least. Score.

kutulu · 07-30-2004, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by powerclown
So disingenuous, so many lies....nothing of substance. Such an insult to the intelligence of regular people.
Bush is no better.
This election is so depressing.

It sucks that Bush and Kerry are the only "real" choices. At least we can count on Kerry not to try to legislate his religious beliefs.

SecretMethod70 · 07-30-2004, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sun Tzu
In his defense; he does comment on that. He mentions his website being the way to find out the details of the hows. I still dont know whether I'll vote for him or waste my vote on Badnarik.

There's no such thing as a wasted vote. Voting one's conscience regarding who has the best ideas, and not who is more likely to win - that's a noble thing to do IMO.

Anyway, the speech was pretty decent. I would have certainly liked to see more information about the HOW, but it wasn't a bad speech per se.

He gives his website and says the how is there, fine, but the people are watching NOW. How many people do you think will go to the website? Less than half of the number that watched the speech, if he's lucky. This was his opportunity to prove that he's more than just idealism and that he has tangible plans to cause change, and I don't feel he's proven that yet.

I think the debates will have a much greater impact on the election than the acceptance speeches though.

mml · 07-30-2004, 11:59 AM

FYI: Apparently Kerry wrote the speech long hand over the past month or so. It was then put into the computer and a couple of speech writers worked with him to "punch" it up.

wonderwench · 07-30-2004, 12:21 PM

Kerry was upstaged by the balloons.

Stompy · 07-30-2004, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SecretMethod70
There's no such thing as a wasted vote. Voting one's conscience regarding who has the best ideas, and not who is more likely to win - that's a noble thing to do IMO.

Hm, I dunno, it really is a wasted vote. Maybe if the other parties had more influence in this country the vote for someone other than republican/democrat would hold water, but until then.. it really is wasted.

Yes, the choice is there and that's good, but really now.. do you honestly think a good portion of people who vote would even REMOTELY consider the other party? *You* might, but most others.. nah.

Just look at Nader in the 2000 elections. Didn't even remotely come close.. not by a long shot.

As it stands now, anyone voting for something other than dem/rep is just tossing a vote away on someone who won't win. That, to me, is a wasted vote.

Bush is in office.. so if you don't like Bush, do NOT vote for a third party because if it's a close election like 2000's, those votes could actually be used to help determine the outcome.

[edit]
Take, for example, the 2000 election results (found here: http://www.fec.gov/pubrec/2000presgeresults.htm). NY had mainly 6.5 million voters between Bush and Gore vs. the 310,000 between the others.. that's 4%. The ratios really don't stray far from that number for the other states.

The other parties need to work on gaining much much more influence in the political world before even remotely deciding to run for pres, IMO.

07-29-2004, 07:15 PM	#1 (permalink)
pan6467 Lennonite Priest Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA	Kerry's speech............ AWESOME Kerry's speech (as seen on C-Span, since I didn't want any interuptions in any form) was the knockout blow to Bush. Combined with Edwards' speech yeterday, Bush better be planning something HUGE or hope Kerry f's up ala Gary Hart before Nov. I was worried he was another stiff like Gore, but he gave one hell of a speech and showed life and optimism and hope. All I can say is Kerry will make a great president. __________________ I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

07-29-2004, 07:33 PM	#3 (permalink)
Sparhawk Dubya Location: VA	Home Run. My favorite part: "And let me say it plainly: in that cause, and in this campaign, we welcome people of faith. America is not us and them. I think of what Ron Reagan said of his father a few weeks ago, and I want to say this to you tonight: I don't wear my own faith on my sleeve. But faith has given me values and hope to live by, from Vietnam to this day, from Sunday to Sunday. I don't want to claim that God is on our side. As Abraham Lincoln told us, I want to pray humbly that we are on God's side. And whatever our faith, one belief should bind us all: The measure of our character is our willingness to give of ourselves for others and for our country." __________________ "In Iraq, no doubt about it, it's tough. It's hard work. It's incredibly hard. It's - and it's hard work. I understand how hard it is. I get the casualty reports every day. I see on the TV screens how hard it is. But it's necessary work. We're making progress. It is hard work."

07-29-2004, 08:25 PM	#5 (permalink)
hannukah harry Junkie	because after all, in a 10-15 minute speech, he should outline in detail exactly how he's gonna do all the things he's said are his goals. why do i have the feeling that even if he did give a point by point description of what he would be doing, you (or some other repub) would still say that? __________________ shabbat shalom, mother fucker! - the hebrew hammer

07-29-2004, 08:32 PM	#6 (permalink)
Jeff And we'll all float on ok... Location: Iowa City	It WAS pretty impressive. Obama, Sharpton, and Kerry all gave some stunning speeches. __________________ For those who believe in God, most of the big questions are answered. But for those of us who can't readily accept the God formula, the big answers don't remain stone-written. We adjust to new conditions and discoveries. We are pliable. Love need not be a command or faith a dictum. I am my own God. We are here to unlearn the teachings of the church, state, and our educational system. We are here to drink beer. We are here to kill war. We are here to laugh at the odds and live our lives so well that Death will tremble to take us. --Charles Bukowski

07-29-2004, 08:53 PM	#9 (permalink)
assilem Insane Location: Eternity	It was not as big as I thought it could have been. This was supposed to be the speech to define himself and inspire America. I found "Beautiful Day" by U2, his closing song, more inspirational than the speech itself. He was all over the place and sweating at the same time. He fell flat for me and by looking at the audience I guess they felt the same way. Despite a couple of red meat moments they were falling asleep. It just seemed like a cookie cutter democratic speech, which may play to the converted, but what about the millions of swing voters. I don't think this will have much of an effect on them. He did mention a vague platform but did not go into any detail. Bill Clinton was always great at presenting a plan and explaining it in immense detail. I just felt as if he just blew through the thing. It paled in comparison to Barack Obama's and Bill Clinton's speech. I guess I am saying that I wanted to be impressed enough to want to vote for him but I was not. I think I can sum it up with three words: Pandering Platitudinal Presumptuous IMO I'd like to hear from cthulu23 and tecoyah on this... as well as all of the other distinguished TPF'ers __________________ The mother of mankind, what time his pride Had cast him out from Heaven, with all his host Of rebel Angels Last edited by assilem; 07-29-2004 at 09:02 PM..

07-29-2004, 08:01 PM	#4 (permalink)
Seaver Junkie Location: Fort Worth, TX	Nice rhetoric, no substance. Nothing in the way of HOW he plans to do anything.

07-29-2004, 08:49 PM	#8 (permalink)
hiredgun Addict	I missed it on television, but from the text of the speech it looks solid. I've heard that Kerry's delivery was better than it ever has been, I wish I'd seen him give it: does anyone have a video link?

07-29-2004, 10:36 PM	#10 (permalink)
mml Adrift Location: Wandering in the Desert of Life	An amazingly written speech that was delivered well. I loved what was said, but Kerry just couldn't deliver a home run. That being said, it was better than I had really hoped it would be. In fact, even Pat Buchanan loved the speech. Kerry needed to slow things down and let the crowd take control and if he had (which is something he has problems doing) this could have been one of the best acceptance speeches ever. It was clearly an A+ speech , but I would give Kerry a B+/A- delivery. I truly believe that the debates will have a profound effect on this election. My concern is that Kerry is considered a top notch debater so he will be presumed to win, but in reality Bush has an amazing ability to connect with people and even if he puts forth an average performance, it may be considered a victory for him. __________________ Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so." -Douglas Adams

07-30-2004, 03:08 AM	#13 (permalink)
scout Psycho	It seemed to me that it was another atypical political speech. A whole lotta promises with very little substance on the actual issues, more vote pandering than anything else. Most of the "promises" have very little if any chance of actually making it through both houses to become law. __________________ "The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." Thomas Jefferson

07-30-2004, 03:34 AM	#14 (permalink)
jcookc6 Psycho Location: Venice, Florida	OK boys and girls, WHO IS GOING TO PAY FOR ALL OF THESE THINGS? You can't get all of this money for these programs just from rolling back "Bush Tax Cuts", so the money will have to come from some other type of TAX. How is he going get through his first day in office? He promised to do so much on his first day, that he will need a 72 hour day. As usual, the same Kerry bullshit we in Massachusetts have heard for years.

07-30-2004, 04:17 AM	#15 (permalink)
highthief Junkie Location: Ontario, Canada	Didn't see it, but reading the text it's a solid speech. He should talk more - he's not Clinton or Reagan in terms of public speaking, but he'll win any competition with Bush on the dias or in front of the camera. __________________ Si vis pacem parabellum.

07-30-2004, 07:11 AM	#17 (permalink)
wraithhibn Dopefish Location: the 'Ville	Half of his speech sounded like a Bush speech, not a Kerry speech. When did he turn so hawkish all the sudden? The only really standout part of his speech was the salute at the beginning, not much of the substance stood out. __________________ If you won't dress like the Victoria Secret girls, don't expect us to act like soap opera guys.

07-30-2004, 07:19 AM	#19 (permalink)
balderdash111 Psycho	Let me start by saying I plan to vote for Kerry, unless he suddenly proclaims his life-long admiration for the social policies of Adolf Hitler or something. That said, I was very disappointed by the speech. A whole lot of discussion of unity, etc. and except for a few specific points (tax cuts, messing with the constitution, health care and many jabs about being truthful and full of integrity), not very clear on how he's offering something different from the Republicans. Let's look at the intelligence issue, for example. Both sides are now saying they want to revamp the intelligence apparatus based on the 9/11 report. No big difference there, but Kerry made a big point about how he plans to do that in his speech. He also made a big point about being careful when going to war, drawing an implied (and I think accurate) contrast with the current administration. But don't you think the current admin will be more careful too? Can you imagine the fall-out if they did the same thing (say, to Iran or North Korea) AGAIN? I was also unimpressed by the delivery. He was sweating a good deal (enough to get through the make-up and shine under the lights anyway), and he had this weird habit of sort of shifting from one side to the other (insert Republican ad hominem attack here) as he talked. Sort of like he was doing a little march in place at times. It was a little unsettling. On Monday night, when Bill Clinton was walking out to HUGE applause , someone on CNN blurted out "and this is why he's on Monday." Don't know if it was meant for air (I didn't think so at the time) but it was a good point - Clinton is SO much better at this than Kerry is, that had they been the same night, Kerry would have looked terrible. Kerry's just not that good at the Big Speech thing. (Bush the First had the problem with the Vision thing, Clinton had the Blowjob thing, and Bush the Second had the Iraq thing). Again, I'm going to vote for him, barring a disaster, but I really was disappointed with the performance. Oh, and to try to answer jcook's question, I think he plans to increase revenues a couple of ways - roll back the tax cuts, eliminate or reduce so-called "corporate welfare" and other tax loopholes (he mentioned outsourcing tax benefits, but I don't know what they are, exactly) and, implicitly, raise taxes on those who make over $200k a year. edit And by the way, I have to agree with those who said they didn't think the crowd was loving the speech. Sure they applauded on the various points, but there weren't the kind of wild cheers you sometimes see at these things. That said, is Bush going to do any better? I really doubt it. Last edited by balderdash111; 07-30-2004 at 07:24 AM..

07-30-2004, 08:03 AM	#20 (permalink)
Wax_off No Avatar, No Sig.	I think assilem hit it on the head. Not a great speach by any means. Halfway through a friend and I were chatting about other stuff. Sure, he hit some good points, but I tuned out a good portion. That was not true of Obama's speach, or Clinton's or even Clark's. Hell, even Sharpton did better. Maybe they had easier messages to deliver though. I'm still voting for him, but I wasn't all inspired by this speach. I'll wait for the debates.

07-30-2004, 08:31 AM	#21 (permalink)
98MustGT Crazy Location: San Diego	I think Kerry meant to say he is going to increase the taxes on those making 20,000 a year or more not 200,00 a year. According to the GAO for 2001... Top 5% pay 53.25% of all income taxes . The top 10% pay 64.89% The top 25% pay 82.9% The top 50% pay 96.03% The bottom 50%? They pay a paltry 3.97% of all income taxes.

07-30-2004, 08:51 AM	#22 (permalink)
matteo101 In transition Location: north, no south abit, over to the right, getting warmer...there!	For asselim, the speach got two dozen standing ovations, and Kerry could barely start talking on atleast 5 occasions. Not really a croud that doesnt look like they wanted to be there, infact I thought the "vibe" in the fleet center was pretty incredible. Everyone from cnn and cbs, were asking eachother if the people at home could feel the energy as much as the people in the floor or in the stands. They said it was incredible. Anyways, I thought the speach was well written, and well spoken as well. I think he tried his very best to deliver the speach as well as he possibly could, and you could tell by his persperation that he truelly was giving it his all. He looked nervous at the begining, but everytime he got a big applaud I think he got more confidence, and I think he did a good job. I think this speach if anything, will give Kerry confidence for the rest of his campaign. Does anyone know when the debates are??

07-30-2004, 09:05 AM	#23 (permalink)
kutulu Junkie	It was a nice speech but it's just a speech. Like most big speeches, he probably didn't write it (how many Presidents and pres candidates actually write their own speeches?). To me it's just words. I'm still voting for him though.

07-30-2004, 09:12 AM	#24 (permalink)
Wax_off No Avatar, No Sig.	He got two dozen standing ovations because that was what was expected. If he had been making fart noises with his hands he probably would have gotten at least a dozen standing ovations. (a bit of hyperbole) He could barely start talking because he was running over the applause. If had waited for it a few seconds longer the speach would have been much better. It was mostly about making a big speach in front of the party faithful. Of course they're going to cheer and clap. But it wasn't a great speach, just a passable one. Wait until Bush makes his acceptance speach, then you'll see real enthusiasm and energy. I'm not a fan of the guy, but he does know how to whip a crowd up, kinda revival style. People will be passing out in the aisles and speaking in tounges.

07-30-2004, 09:38 AM	#25 (permalink)
matteo101 In transition Location: north, no south abit, over to the right, getting warmer...there!	Oh God, I can't wait to see Bush, and what he has to say. I honestly cannot see that guy really saying anything of relevence. "Yeah, we screwed over america, we screwed over the economy, we screwed over the working class, we screwed over health care, education, we rely on foreign oil, we invaded Iraq because of that depedance, BUT I THIS TIME IT WILL BE BETTER, I AM HERE TO UNITE US, I AM HERE BECAUSE I BROUGHT US CLOSER AFTER SEPTEMBER 11'TH AND USED THAT TRUST TO SCREW YOU ALL, MUAHAHAHAHAHA..VOTE FOR ME!!!!!!!!"

07-30-2004, 09:48 AM	#27 (permalink)
reconmike Thank You Jesus Location: Twilight Zone	Every time Kerry opened his mouth I felt his hand on my wallet. Where the hell is all this money coming from for all these hand-outs? It was such a love-fest it was really sickening. I was waiting for the love beads and tamburines to break out. None of his points struck me as productive, in fact it was quite the oppisite. We can do better and hope is the great rallying cry of the underachiver. Since you cant or wont do it we must help you. The so called great dem president JFK said 'ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country". __________________ Where is Darwin when ya need him?

07-30-2004, 11:02 AM	#30 (permalink)
Delvid Insane Location: Missouri	Like the speech or not he did a great job of burning Asscroft.

07-30-2004, 11:40 AM	#34 (permalink)
powerclown Junkie Location: Detroit, MI	Kerry and his reaching out to the world crap, rebuilding alliances. Kerry voted in favor of giving Bush (congressional) support to go to war, in spite of France, Russia, et al...HE VOTED IN FAVOR OF GOING TO WAR! Edwards pointing out to us that there are two America's; one for the filthy rich (like himself and kerry) and one for the rest of us (which got idiotic Huge Applause)...that ALLLLLLLLLLL americans deserve the kind of health care that Senate members and their families get...please! Kerry dredging up all his old 'vietnam buddies' from a war that he was against, presumably so he could appear "tough" on foreign policy. So disingenuous, so many lies....nothing of substance. Such an insult to the intelligence of regular people. Bush is no better. This election is so depressing.

07-30-2004, 11:45 AM	#35 (permalink)
filtherton Junkie Location: In the land of ice and snow.	I love how kerry gets accused of stealing the money of the american people. I guess many would prefer the bush plan: stealing money from our children by way of record deficits plus tax cuts for those who need it least. Score.

07-30-2004, 11:59 AM	#38 (permalink)
mml Adrift Location: Wandering in the Desert of Life	FYI: Apparently Kerry wrote the speech long hand over the past month or so. It was then put into the computer and a couple of speech writers worked with him to "punch" it up. __________________ Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so." -Douglas Adams

07-30-2004, 12:21 PM	#39 (permalink)
wonderwench Banned	Kerry was upstaged by the balloons.