Stompy

I've been wondering lately if GWB is the most hated president in history.

I don't mean to spark a flamewar or anything, but this is just based on opinions of people I know. Honestly, there is ONE person out of everyone I know who likes Bush... the same people are split down the middle with Clinton (so they aren't all liberal). The only people I've had contact with who are happy with Bush are those who post in debates on message boards.

After Reagan died, a lot of articles (and opinions) came out about how much of a horrible president he was. Of course, hardcore conservatives praised him while die hard liberals hated him.. but I don't really count those people.

I'm talking general public opinion.

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tecoyah

History will tell.

But this is a bit of a troll.

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cthulu23

Reagan was not as popular as his eulogies claimed......he was a divisive leader whose approval polls were frequently in the low 50s. In fact, Clinton was more popular exiting office than Reagan was.

nanofever

Bush is pretty bad, but only time will tell if he beats Nixon/Hoover/Harding for the top spot.

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Originally Posted by Norseman on another forum:
"Yeah, the problem with the world is the stupid people are all cocksure of themselves and the intellectuals are full of doubt."

Stompy

How's this a troll? I don't mean for it to be.

I know there are a lot of Bush supports here, but honestly, all personal opinions aside, whether or not it's for the right/wrong reasons, the general public seems to be (to me, at least, and many who I've spoken with) quite unhappy with Bush, which made me wonder who the worst president has been.

It also appears that there's a lot of anti-US sentiment goin on in the rest of the world.. not so much to the American people, but to the government, in particular, it's leader.

Clinton could very well have had the same effect, but I didn't pay attention to world events and politics back then as much as I do now, which is why I decided to ask here.

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cosmoknight

I would put Clinton as number one. I have yet to see another President generate the number of wacko militias bent on resting him from control of the government (Ruby Ridge,Waco some flying a plane into the White House,emptying a SKS assault rifle at the WH etc). All of which dissappeared once GWB was elected. As to Reagan his poll numbers went up the longer he was in and won 49 out of 50 states in a landslide a feat only one other president accomplished. That hardly says unpopular.

shakran

It's not. Some people just think that anything that states a strong opinion is trolling.

As to the original question, I don't think GWB is the most hated president in history - yet. Andy Jackson was pretty hated (of course, when you kick off your presidency by allowing a mob of rowdys to trash the whitehouse. . . . ) and so was John Adams. Nixon of course ranks right up there.

However, if, 20 years from now, the majority of the American people don't look at the results of what is happening today and based on that, believe Bush was the worst president we've ever had, I'll be very surprised.

tecoyah

Actually, I rather dispise Bush. But....very recently we have had a hmm....very touchy Bush supporter, who I am afraid may get a bit testy. Still, all seems well thus far.

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Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

roachboy

i have to say that i have never seen the level of disdain and anger directed at a president in my lifetime as i now see directed at bush--nothing like it against reagan, though most of my friends opposed him and his polices, particularly in central america--i wonder about nixon, however: at the time, i was young at the time, and may have missed out on things in new hampshire because...well....

that conservatives hated clinton is not a surprise--an entire colonization of am radio by right talkshow hosts legitimated itself and extended its reach into the right's heartland by articulating hatred of clinton. the disdain for bush is not centrally managed--its reasons are diffuse, its ways of expression various.

whether bush turns out to be understood as a disaster historically will be a function of who writes the histories--it always is. hell, there are people who think reagan was a genius, thanks to people like dinesh de souza et al. anything is possible in constructing a signifier.

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Scipio

You have it backwards. It's usually claimed that Reagan was the most popular because he left office with the highest numbers, ie the last approval rating poll was higher than anyone else's. Although that's true, it's not a good way to judge his overall popularity. For that, we turn to average approval rating, where Clinton beats out Reagan.

On the topic,
Bush might be the most polarizing president, but I somehow doubt that he's the most hated.

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cosmoknight

Poll: Most rate Reagan over Clinton
WASHINGTON (AP) — Most Americans say Ronald Reagan, who died this month, will be remembered as a better president than Bill Clinton, who is trying to improve his image with a new autobiography, according to an Associated Press poll.
Seven in 10 say history will judge Reagan superior, based on the survey conducted one week after the Republican icon's state funeral and nonstop media coverage focused not only on the ceremonies marking his death at age 93 but a lifetime of achievements from Hollywood to the White House.

Out of office just 3 1/2 years, Clinton recently returned to the limelight with a prime-time interview to publicize his memoir, "My Life," which goes on sale Tuesday. The expectation long before the 957-page book reached the stores was a tome that would provide insights into the sexual scandal with a White House intern and impeachment — the nadir of the Clinton presidency.

"I think Reagan will be remembered as the better president, just because of the kind of man he was," said Judy Humphrey, a 66-year-old retiree from Palmyra, N.Y. "I didn't have a lot of respect for Clinton because of his personal life, though he may have done some good things."

Some 83% of those questioned said they have a favorable view of Reagan as a person, according to the poll conducted for the AP by Ipsos-Public Affairs. The former president completed his two terms in office in January 1989.

A majority of 53% said they have an unfavorable view of Clinton while 41% rated him favorably. In January, people were about evenly divided in their view of Clinton as a person.

Asked whether Reagan or the current president, George W. Bush, will be remembered as a better president, 76% said Reagan and 12% said Bush. Three-fourths of Republicans said Reagan, about the same margin for Democrats and independents.

Although stocks soared and the deficit fell during Clinton's tenure, many Americans associate the Democrat with the marital infidelity that nearly toppled his presidency, impeachment by the House and the Senate vote that saved him. Women were slightly more likely than men to have an unfavorable view.

"People give Clinton credit for the economy, but what happened in the White House was so morally reprehensible that people hold his personal behavior against him," said Robert Shapiro, a political science professor at Columbia University. "When people make the comparison, they see a big difference between the two men."

Reagan often gets credit for the end of the Cold War, even though former President George H.W. Bush was in office when the Soviet Union collapsed. The military buildup during Reagan's eight years and pressure on the Soviets are cited as contributing factors in the demise of the superpower.

Time also had a bearing on opinions. Reagan had been out of office for 16 years, long enough for some to forget the low points of his presidency — the Iran-contra scandal, budget deficits and the visit to the German military cemetery at Bitburg, where Nazi SS troops were buried.

"People's memory of the Clinton impeachment scandal is more vivid than a lot of what happened in the Reagan era, and with his funeral, people were more inclined to remember the positive," Shapiro said.

By a 2-to-1 margin, those surveyed said Reagan was more effective at communicating his ideas to the American people than Clinton. "Reagan has certain ideals and principles and he conveyed those ideas clearly," said Vid Kondratas, a 33-year-old, Springfield, Va., computer programmer who considers himself an independent. "People knew what Reagan stood for and what his principles were."

Clinton remains popular among Democrats and unpopular with Republicans while independents are slightly more inclined to view him negatively. In 2000 presidential election, Vice President Al Gore distanced himself from Clinton, in large part because of those perceptions. This year, Democrat John Kerry, who doesn't share the same ties Gore did, plans to have Clinton speak on the first day of the Democratic National Convention.

"Reagan had a lot of grandiose ideas, but Clinton just kind of told it like it was," said Ben Rivers, a 60-year-old independent from Orlando "In years to come, I think people will realize that Clinton did better for his country than Reagan did."

People were about evenly divided on whether Clinton or Bush will be remembered as the better president.

Republican Shannon Miller, of Dover, Ohio, said Bush would be more kindly remembered because "he hasn't had as many scandals."

Andrea Parron, of Harmony, R.I., a self-described "bleeding-heart Democrat," said given the choice of Clinton or Bush, "I'd take Clinton back in a heartbeat. But I would kick him in the groin so he could keep his mind on business."

The AP-Ipsos poll of 1,000 adults was taken June 18-20 and has a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 3 percentage points.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politic...tm?POE=NEWISVA

Asuka{eve}

I think many of the unemployed disliked Hoover during that time.

Lebell

Gents,

This isn't a flame, but who among us can judge the public opinion over the last 225 years towards presidents?

Besides, I remember reading that Andrew Johnson was EXTREMELY unpopular.

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nanofever

The month Regan died people voted him over Clinton, stop the presses this is newsworthy. Perhaps these results had something to do with the full-blown fellatio the "news" stations gave Regan the weeks before this poll.

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I'm leaving for the University of California: Santa Barbara in 5 hours, give me your best college advice - things I need, good ideas, bad ideas, nooky, ect.

Originally Posted by Norseman on another forum:
"Yeah, the problem with the world is the stupid people are all cocksure of themselves and the intellectuals are full of doubt."

cthulu23

Let's look at the numbers from when he was president rather then after a mourning period filled with fawning retrospectives.
See this article.

Excerpt:

djtestudo

How about Jimmy Carter?

Andrew Johnson would work too.

Hell, half the country hated Lincoln so much they up and left!

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roachboy

i suppose i should qualify what i wrote earlier---i agree that bush is the most divisive president i remember. the level of disdain i talked about is a symptom of that divisiveness.

i understand that there we people who supported nixon and the invasion of cambodia and the bombing of laos too. i cannot imagine how they managed it, but they existed. i guess.

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spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

fuzyfuzer

how about Johnson, no not that Johnson the first Johnson the guy that djtestudo mentioned. the vice to Lincoln he is successivly put in the last place in presidential rankings time and time again.

i think Bush is doing a lot of things that need to be done and some that don't. a lot of them are not popular so things not going absolutly greatly.

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hannukah harry

i would have to think lincoln was the most hated president of all time... no other president had the country enter into civil war during their watch...

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Wax_off

What about U.S. Grant? A drunkard who sacked Atlanta. Sure half of the country thought he was a hero, but the other thought him a villan. Don't know why he's on the $50. He didn't do much during his presidency.

Boo

Clinton proved to be the worst in my voting lifetime. As a military man during his terms, he was always against us. Military people don't like to be held to a higher level than their Commander in Chief. His actions would have gotten a person dishonorably discharged with no dignity. To think he could not hold himself up to the dignity of his office is unthinkable. He could have waited until out of office to have his fun.

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Clark

The honest answer to this question is most likely Lincoln. Yes he is loved now but at the time he was in office there was a civil war. Not to mention the draft riots.

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shakran

Eh, I think people considered him a bad president, but I don't think anyone HATED him. The man was too honest and his intentions WERE good - he just didn't have the ability to delegate so that his intentions could be realized.

cosmoknight

Sure lets, according to this poll from CBS he left at 68% tied with FDR. done in 1989 I sure we can trade polling numbers back in forth all day put in the end it was the American people by a huge majority that elected him for a second term in a landslide..

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/...in621632.shtml

cthulu23

Another poll conducted after he left office rather than when he was in office. You are right in saying that we could do this all day. He may have been popular when he was elected for a secind term, but the Iran-Contra scandal hung over much of his last four years.

highthief

I think as far as people remember, Nixon would be number one. Really, we brought the most disrespect to the nation and office and even his allies deserted him.

Then, was it Hoover during the 20s, Teapot Dome and the Depression?

As much as the left and right like to bicker, Clinton and Reagan are not in that category.

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Bill O'Rights

Actually, that was General Sherman. Like him, or hate him, he was...effective. As for Grant...well, his entire presidency was one large scandal after another. Whether or not he could be considered the worst president is debatable...I will however concede that the man could be the poster child for The Peter Principle. Very effective military commander...not so much, as the leader of a nation.

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poco_vino

I agree with the guy that said Bush is divisive (sp?). If he was the most hated, the poll numbers wouldn't be largely even. Bush has his base, etc, etc.

My vote: Andrew Jackson. Primarily for his treatment of the Indians (Indian Removal Act of 1835, Trail of Tears, etc).

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hannukah harry

but did anyone really hate jackson for those things? my guess is only the indians...

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dylanmarsh

Harry and DJ are right. Pound for pound, Lincoln was the most hated president during his tenure. In fact, most, at the time, viewed Lincoln as a tyrant and were pleased when he was killed. There's a great documentary on the History Channel that usually airs around President's Day that gives a more detailed explanation. I also remember reading that, at the time, John Wilkes Booth was praised as a hero, only to be later labeled as bad guy.

As far as recent presidents, I can't say I've been real pleased with Dubya. I think one needs to feel a sense of confidence and safety with a leader and I've never had that with Bush. I suppose it has something to do with his lack of brain power and the way he uses the biblical terms to describe his intentions. Reagan and Bush Sr. had their religious convictions but never brought it to the forefront like Dubya does. Dubya seems to exude a sense Christian zeal that must correct the ways of the Muslim in order to make the world safer. I think the "war on terrorism" is just a facade to put forth Bush's own agenda of eliminating an old enemy, Hussien, to weaken the Muslim religion in the Middle East and to make the American population fearful of the Muslim. What he's been doing nowadays, with regard to the Patriot Act, is no different than Joe McCarthy's search for commie's during the middle of the 20th century. Bush is a modern day McCarthyite who, I believe, will be viewed as a bad president.

Like others have said, though, time will tell if he'll be labeled the worst.

theusername

I consider myself a moderate on most issues, right on defense. I have a favorable of opinion on Clinton despite some of his decisions on foreign policy and I support Bush over Kerry.

Bush ranks high as one of the most hated Presidents. But most of our truly great Presidents were also very much hated, besides the original good old GW, as in George Washington. And with todays media the criticism multiplies tenfold.

Please dont bash this, this is my opinion, I sincerely believe that in 10 years we will look back and praise Bush for spreading democracy to the middle east, time will tell.

If we're talking about which President should be the most hated, Andrew Jackson without a doubt instead history books praise him as the "common man." This man commited mass genocide against Native Americans, he is an embarassment to American History in my eyes.

Also Lincoln was hated much more than any other President while he was in office. Half the country cheered his death and during the civil war he absolutely was a tyrant, which is the reason Congress impeached Andrew Johnson to gain its power back. He also had to be a tyrant to win the war, which is why we now hail him as one of the great Presidents.

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shakran

I don't think so - well, let me rephrase that. I would hope that the American people are decent enough to not feel that way in 10 years. You see, Iraq was a sovreign country. It was not our property. It was not ours to control. It was not our place, our business, or our right to interfere in the natural evolution of the Iraqi culture.

America has been overly arrogant for decades. We've found a great system of government which works for us, and we therefore have attempted to convert many other countries to that form of government. And when those countries say "we already have a government, thank you anyway" we try to force them to change because their government does not appeal to our lofty visions of how people should live.

We continue to refuse to acknowledge that what works for one group may not work for another group (try forcing the Hells Angels to conform to the ideals of the "Metrosexuals" if you disagree with that premise). We continue to refuse to allow other cultures to choose their own destiny. We continue to force our beliefs on those who don't already share them.

And every time we interfere in something which is not at all our business (vietnam, korea, mogadishu, somalia, cuba, bin laden (don't forget that we armed and trained him), iraq take 1 (when we armed and trained Sadaam's people to fight Iran), and many more) it turns to complete and utter shit on us. Not only do we not accomplish our goals (which are immoral in the first place) but we in fact end up making the world worse than it was before we stuck our nose into it. Despite these repeated failures, we continue to have the pigheaded arrogance to keep trying rather than adopting the far more sensible policy of "look all you like, but don't touch."

Since this president more than any other typifies this misguided attitude, and this president more than any other has not only deceived the american people in order to carry out this attitude, but has demonstrated utter incompetence in accomplishing any of his goals, I feel that eventually the american people will come to regret his presidency more than any other.

VTBrian

I think the latest fox poll shows bush still having the aproval of the majority. So I doubt he could be the most hated ever. I don't think there are really that many people who dislike him. Its just that the ones that do are very very vocal about it.

pan6467

Almost EVERY president from Washington to Dubya has been hated.

Washington was hated by many because they were scared he was going to be "King", then he was hated because there was actually a federal government and laws, and because he didn't take sides in partisan politics (mainly between Jefferson, Hamilton and Addams).

After Washington there came the party system and that meant hatred.

It goes on throughout every presidency, there's been a scandal in all of them (except the short ones like McKinley, and I think Pierce is the other that died before a year in office).

There was the Louisiana Purchase, at that time people thought Jefferson was bankrupting the nation and we were getting involved with Napolean.

Slavery was always a big issue.

Lincoln was hated in the North because he imposed Martial law on many bodrder states and the Civil War was extremely costly in money and lives and thought to be unnecessary.

Then Restoration.

There were depressions , like in the 1880's.

Teddy Roose. was hated because he was a progressive and fought for workers rights and fought the business monopolies.

Wilson was hated for taking us into war (WWI).

FDR was a very hated President by the GOP some thought him to be a dictator.

Truman was disliked because of Korea.

Ike was disliked because he allowed McCarthy to do his witch hunts.

JFK was disliked becaaause he fought for civil rights and was thought to be weak on Communism and arrogant. In fact most of what he tried to put through was not even considered until after he was assassinated.

LBJ was hated for 'Nam, and his war on poverty programs (that many were ideas from JFK.)

Nixon for Watergate among other thinbgs like wage freezes, the beginning of inflation, not ending the war his first term, going to China to open trade.

Ford was hated for pardoning Nixon.

Carter was hated for scandals in his cabinet, inflation, interest rates, being southern and family oriented and was thought to be weak.

Reagan was hated because he cut a lot of domestic programs, spent outrageously on military, and really started a partisan polarization.

Bush I hated because "no New Taxes" and a natural recession.

Clinton because he was too Centrist and because of partisan polarization.

Now Dubya, is partisan polarization, a war, a recession and people seeing their jobs going overseas and well whatever.

My point is every president has been hated, and every president will be. But the hatred doesn't mean he is or is not doing a great job. Only history can truly tell, and that takes about 2 generations to truly feel the effect.

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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

shakran

Oh come on. Anyone who believes anything on Fox news without MAJOR research to confirm it is misguided. Fox is proud of the fact that it's only gonna present conservative viewpoints.

Figures don't lie, but liars can figure.

VTBrian

shakran: Granted they are very proud of their conservitive nature, but I believe you will find the CNN polls or whatever other liberal agency you would like to use would show the same thing. I simply think many people are so blinded by their partison hatred for the man that they can't see that in reality alot of people like the guy. In fact I would go as far as to say the majority of the people like him.

poco_vino

As to your second sentence, I think that theory should be applied to any news story, regardless of the source. Reporters/journalists are humans too, anthing can happen.

Overall (and so you know, I do not watch Fox), I am curious to your basis for this statement. I think it is very interesting to discover when news stories aren't being reported accurately or with a slant, where did you get this information?

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pan6467

One thing about the polls of Presidential approval is many people still hold high regard for the person in office. Doesn't mean they will vote for him, but they hold the repect for the office. Therefore it depends on how the question is asked and the context of the question.

Any poll can yeild the results you want by asking the questions the right way. Or who you use, if you call a list of Conservatives/Liberals, you'll end up with a majority of conservative/liberal views. This has been proven over and over again. Plus, polls are a way to try to shift public opinion. Some people are followers and want to be in the majority no matter what they may personally believe.

So to me polls mean very little.

The only way to run a true poll is to just pick names from a phonebook randomly, but that doesn't usually happen.

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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

pan6467

One great way to put a slant on news is who they ask questions. In covering say the Iraqi war, the liberal press will find those against it and focus on them, the conservatives will find people who support it and show them. Then they'll show the other side in a negative light.

It's all about editing and finding those who support your mediams view to focus on.

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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

clockworkgreen

I can't remember having as much hatred toward any president more than Dumbya.